1,402 words about why I'm smarter than you're

  • This game is conceptually flawed, and I can prove it mathematically

    I used to like this game. I played it during its beta test and was eager to pick it up day one to see what additions they had snuck in. But there weren’t any. The game was the beta. That was a huge disappointment to me as someone under the impression that what I was playing was a beta, as in unfinished. I played it maybe 2 hours total and then quit. A week ago I picked it up again to see what had changed. They certainly added a lot (a lot that the beta testers asked for months before launch) but nothing had changed.

    The quest: still grindy
    The combat: still clunky
    The progression: still nothing
    But at least you can redo your tattoos, so no need for a proper character creator.

    I convinced a friend, let’s call him Kyle, to join me in my revisit to the game this past week. Kyle and I probably had, in total, 10 minutes worth of fun in our 3 play session. That was all during our last play session when we tried to take a skeleton fort, and got all the gold skeletons into a puddle, and blew them up. The 2 session before that were just doing some treasure hunting. We didn’t necessarily have a bad time, but it wasn’t fun. Not to mention all the fun we had had in the fort was spoiled when another ship engaged us while we were trying to clear it. The ship combat wasn’t what did it though, it was the 3rd time we had to sink the same ship because they just respawned 2 islands away, and came back fully equipped to fight us again.

    This is the first, and probably biggest flaw in the games design. Pirates don’t pirate other pirates. This game rewards you for being a [censored]. What’s the easiest way to get gold and gain rep? Let someone else do the work, then just take it. You get everything, and they get literally nothing other than a bad experience. This is the only game I’ve ever played where the best way to “progress”, if you can call it that, is to make sure someone else can’t. Games should be fun to lose. I can lose a game of monopoly and still have fun playing. I can lose a round of [insert fighting game here] and still enjoy the fight. This game is barely any fun to win.

    Progression: noun
    the process of developing or moving gradually towards a more advanced state.

    How much more advanced are you at 40 hours of play time, than you are at 4? You certainly look snazzy with your gold eye-patch and pearl cannons. Has anything changed though, or are you still doing the exact same things. Doesn’t matter if it’s the quest, or pirating. It’s just a bigger number, nothing else. All doing anything does, is make big number get bigger. I know that is a drastic oversimplification of any game’s progression, but this game has drastically simple progression.

    At least the other players can know how cool you are when you raid them for their 3 castaway chest and a foul skull. One selling point for this game was you could RPG as a merchant. Make a name for yourself as a skeleton bounty hunter. But no. Merchant quest are by far the worst ones. The best way to level up is to just find stuff and turn it in. No reason to lock yourself into a time restricted mission when you can just passively gain rep doing other things. Not that those things are much better. Skeletons are at best boring, and at worst frustrating. The combat is heavy, sticky, and really just unsatisfying in every way. Kyle and I were trying to think of another FPS sword play game to compare this too, and we couldn’t think of any. I’m not saying there aren’t any. WatcMojo has informed me there are, in fact, at least 10 games with “Amazing First Person Melee Combat” but the fact I had to look it up, and we couldn’t think of any, made us think that maybe, just maybe, there’s a reason the “S” in FPS stands for shooter, and not swords.

    Maybe it should stand for sailing though. I may have just spent the last 6 paragraphs bashing every aspect of the game so far, but credit where it’s due, the ship play is phenomenal.

    Water: beautiful
    Anchor turning: tactile
    Sails: weighty, but tight, and satisfying
    Ship flooding… fluid, lol

    There’s almost a zen aspect to just sailing, even in storms. The cannons are, while maybe not the most intuitive, still easy to use, and have a nice chunky feel when you land a direct hit. The new special ammo (most of them anyway) gives ship combat more strategy to them now rather than just “shoot the other guys”. There are so many good mechanics and systems in this game. It’s just a shame they’re in a bad game.

    If you can call it a game. What I described above may certainly sound like a game, but it’s not. It’s a tech demo. It’s things that you put into a game. I can’t tell you what makes a game, a game. I’ve heard people say all it needs is challenge, some say just a goal to work towards. I don’t know, but I know a game when I see one. Sea of Thieves is not a game. It’s a sandbox. There is nothing to do, just stuff you can do. It’s not hard to find gold, so no difficulty. All gold let’s you do is search for more gold, so nothing to work towards. If you can “make your own fun” with games like this, good for you. I’m not here to tell you that you don’t like this game if you do. You just do you. For me, I paid Rare so I don’t have to make my own fun. I kinda thought they made the fun for me.

    $60 is how much I’ve invested in this game. $60 and probably 20 hours total. Pirate level 20, and only 10 minutes of memorable fun in the game. Here’s where the math I promised earlier comes in. $60 for 20h, that’s $3/ph. 10 minutes of fun in 20 hours, that’s 19:50 wasted time. 19:50 at $3/ph comes out to $59.50 wasted. $0.50 worth of content is what I feel I’ve been given. $0.50 for 10 minutes is a gumball (a large gumball, but still a gumball). I refuse to believe anyone genuinely thinks they got a game worth the asking price. I am the only of my circle that has purchased the game., everyone else has only ever played it through the $1 Xbox Pass trial. They’ve spent double what the game is worth on it.

    I used to like this game, I still really want to. The game just makes it so difficult to enjoy. There’s no easy quick fix solution to make this game better. In fact, I think this game CAN’T get better. Its biggest flaws aren’t mechanical or anything that can just be patched or added. This game is just poorly designed as a pirate RPG. Combat would need a total overhaul, even the ship combat I praised is very restrictive in terms of what you can actually do. The core idea of pirating other players isn’t fun 75% of the time (never fun when you’re the one being pirated, and only 50% fun when you’re the pirate). For those of you who just want to tell me to switch servers if I’m being harassed, because that's what it is, harassment, let me just say this: If the solution to making a game more fun, is to stop playing, it’s a bad game.

    I’ll close with this. Kyle, the same Kyle from earlier, said that this was the 1st game to make him angry in a looong time. Not rage. I’ve raged quit plenty games in the past, and I plan on rage quitting many more. But I always come back, because the rage motivates me. Anger just festers, and leads to typing a 1,402 word document explaining why a game is bad and I’m actually really smart on the internet.


    Thanks for reading, I would apologize for the length, but it was in the title, so it's really your own fault, and I'm sure most of you picked up on this, but just in case; No, I don't think I'm smarterer than you're. Despite that satire though, I was serious about what I said here.

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  • @ctl-x-alt-x-del Games can make people mad. I’ve almost lost many friends over Monopoly. And one legit table flip. Just got to laugh about it in the end.

  • Progression: noun
    the process of developing or moving gradually towards a more advanced state.

    So often we read that "there is no progression in Sea of Thieves"; by which the critic means that the game does not make itself easier for someone that has played a long time, and earned lots of gold and reputation. They cannot run faster, jump higher, take more damage, nor do they get more powerful, or more accurate, weapons.

    But, think about it. No real world games offer this sort of "progression". If you are a chess Grand Master, you do not get extra pawns, or 3 lives for your Queen, or a knight's move for your King. If you are a Wimbledon champion, the net is not lower, or the opponents side of the court bigger, nor are you allowed two faults at service instead of one.

    In the real world, any "progression" is in yourself. It is in your improved skill, your greater dexterity, your knowledge of strategy and tactics. Chess GMs and Wimbledon champions are better players. They are not assisted by changing game mechanics.

    So it is with the Sea of Thieves. A true Pirate Legend knows the map by heart, and the islands by sight, he knows the techniques to defeat different types of emergent threats, and the various tactics available for PvP. He knows when to stand and fight, when to run, and when to try to negotiate. He has progressed in his skill at the game – not because the game artificially rewards the time spent playing.

    I refuse to believe anyone genuinely thinks they got a game worth the asking price.

    I think that: Whether you believe it or not.

    This game is conceptually flawed, and I can prove it mathematically

    No, you didn't.

  • @surveyorpete said in 1,402 words about why I'm smarter than you're:

    Progression: noun
    the process of developing or moving gradually towards a more advanced state.

    So often we read that "there is no progression in Sea of Thieves"; by which the critic means that the game does not make itself easier for someone that has played a long time, and earned lots of gold and reputation. They cannot run faster, jump higher, take more damage, nor do they get more powerful, or more accurate, weapons.

    But, think about it. No real world games offer this sort of "progression". If you are a chess Grand Master, you do not get extra pawns, or 3 lives for your Queen, or a knight's move for your King. If you are a Wimbledon champion, the net is not lower, or the opponents side of the court bigger, nor are you allowed two faults at service instead of one.

    In the real world, any "progression" is in yourself. It is in your improved skill, your greater dexterity, your knowledge of strategy and tactics. Chess GMs and Wimbledon champions are better players. They are not assisted by changing game mechanics.

    So it is with the Sea of Thieves. A true Pirate Legend knows the map by heart, and the islands by sight, he knows the techniques to defeat different types of emergent threats, and the various tactics available for PvP. He knows when to stand and fight, when to run, and when to try to negotiate. He has progressed in his skill at the game – not because the game artificially rewards the time spent playing.

    I refuse to believe anyone genuinely thinks they got a game worth the asking price.

    I think that: Whether you believe it or not.

    This game is conceptually flawed, and I can prove it mathematically

    No, you didn't.

    Agreed. All this told me is that you’re butthurt that other people steal your gold, and your idea of progression is completely off for a pirate game. The combat isn’t “clunky” as you suggest.. if you’re good at it it comes very fluidly. Stop speaking for everyone. You can only speak for yourself.

    Stop making pointless rants about the game

  • In part I agree, the game lacks real objectives to aspire to, for those users who seek it and who are not interested in aesthetic improvements.
    The game still entertains me, maybe because I do not have time to play a lot ... but I still hope that they will surprise me with the arrival of those goals for which to continue playing.

  • @quietrobot

    Please name one computer game that has "real objectives to aspire to".

  • Riffing off of your ridiculous title:
    You're not smart enough to make the distinction between fact and your personal opinion.

    There is zero point in responding any further. Take care and have fun out there!

  • @surveyorpete said in 1,402 words about why I'm smarter than you're:

    Progression: noun
    the process of developing or moving gradually towards a more advanced state.

    So often we read that "there is no progression in Sea of Thieves"; by which the critic means that the game does not make itself easier for someone that has played a long time, and earned lots of gold and reputation. They cannot run faster, jump higher, take more damage, nor do they get more powerful, or more accurate, weapons.

    But, think about it. No real world games offer this sort of "progression". If you are a chess Grand Master, you do not get extra pawns, or 3 lives for your Queen, or a knight's move for your King. If you are a Wimbledon champion, the net is not lower, or the opponents side of the court bigger, nor are you allowed two faults at service instead of one.

    In the real world, any "progression" is in yourself. It is in your improved skill, your greater dexterity, your knowledge of strategy and tactics. Chess GMs and Wimbledon champions are better players. They are not assisted by changing game mechanics.

    So it is with the Sea of Thieves. A true Pirate Legend knows the map by heart, and the islands by sight, he knows the techniques to defeat different types of emergent threats, and the various tactics available for PvP. He knows when to stand and fight, when to run, and when to try to negotiate. He has progressed in his skill at the game – not because the game artificially rewards the time spent playing.

    I refuse to believe anyone genuinely thinks they got a game worth the asking price.

    I think that: Whether you believe it or not.

    This game is conceptually flawed, and I can prove it mathematically

    No, you didn't.

    The game does lack motivating goals. Gold doesn't buy anything impressive. Winning fights doesn't give enough satisfaction because they decided to use the "generated world" server system, so your name doesn't have weight within the game world for its deeds. You leave and reload and those players disappear most likely forever.

    Wimbledon winners get money, prestige and social status gains from it. Feelings of accomplishment for monumentally difficult challenges. Historical significance as a winner of such a challenge.

    This games has no real difficult challenges it asks of you, there's no social status because the world resets. The monetary rewards are meaningless because there is not enough to buy.

    Basically we need:
    #1: Quests that are difficult to complete. Interestingly different from the regular "training" wheel voyages.
    #2: Gold needs to buy something truly interesting or valuable. Power items are possible but open pandora's box.
    3#: Competition ladders to climb for prestige within the community.

  • @surveyorpete When it is professed that this is a new genre type, there is no game with which to compare it.
    In this game we can talk about discovering new places, unlocking new chapters of stories, special and unique objects, bosses, etc.

  • @alexspk13 said in 1,402 words about why I'm smarter than you're:

    @surveyorpete said in 1,402 words about why I'm smarter than you're:

    Progression: noun
    the process of developing or moving gradually towards a more advanced state.

    So often we read that "there is no progression in Sea of Thieves"; by which the critic means that the game does not make itself easier for someone that has played a long time, and earned lots of gold and reputation. They cannot run faster, jump higher, take more damage, nor do they get more powerful, or more accurate, weapons.

    But, think about it. No real world games offer this sort of "progression". If you are a chess Grand Master, you do not get extra pawns, or 3 lives for your Queen, or a knight's move for your King. If you are a Wimbledon champion, the net is not lower, or the opponents side of the court bigger, nor are you allowed two faults at service instead of one.

    In the real world, any "progression" is in yourself. It is in your improved skill, your greater dexterity, your knowledge of strategy and tactics. Chess GMs and Wimbledon champions are better players. They are not assisted by changing game mechanics.

    So it is with the Sea of Thieves. A true Pirate Legend knows the map by heart, and the islands by sight, he knows the techniques to defeat different types of emergent threats, and the various tactics available for PvP. He knows when to stand and fight, when to run, and when to try to negotiate. He has progressed in his skill at the game – not because the game artificially rewards the time spent playing.

    I refuse to believe anyone genuinely thinks they got a game worth the asking price.

    I think that: Whether you believe it or not.

    This game is conceptually flawed, and I can prove it mathematically

    No, you didn't.

    Agreed. All this told me is that you’re butthurt that other people steal your gold, and your idea of progression is completely off for a pirate game. The combat isn’t “clunky” as you suggest.. if you’re good at it it comes very fluidly. Stop speaking for everyone. You can only speak for yourself.

    Stop making pointless rants about the game

    Chill, you’re actually butthurt. They make a donut-like ring for you to sit on that helps soothe that I’m pretty sure. Let dude say what he wants.

    +1 for the combat being clunky. I don’t mind though. I’m used to it and I don’t think there’s any need for tweaking. I can live without the mlg dweebs ruining sea of thieves by going all try hard with advanced combat mechanics.

  • @surveyorpete

    So often we read that "there is no progression in Sea of Thieves"; by which the critic means that the game does not make itself easier for someone that has played a long time, and earned lots of gold and reputation. They cannot run faster, jump higher, take more damage, nor do they get more powerful, or more accurate, weapons.

    Or they could mean story progression, side grade weapon mods, non performance changing mods, etc. Also, SoT does have power progression. It's just contained in each session, which is frustratingly bad game design because it encourages the unhealthy gaming behavior of extended gaming sessions because if they leave they lose their "progress".

    But, think about it. No real world games offer this sort of "progression". If you are a chess Grand Master, you do not get extra pawns, or 3 lives for your Queen, or a knight's move for your King. If you are a Wimbledon champion, the net is not lower, or the opponents side of the court bigger, nor are you allowed two faults at service instead of one.

    Spoken like someone who doesn't play sports. No good games have that kind of progression either. IRL games your "character" gets faster, stronger, better reflexes, etc the longer you play... ALSO, you get better gear as well: In golf- better golf clubs, golf balls, gloves, etc. In baseball- baseball bats, gloves, cleats, helmets, catching gear, etc. In football-smaller lighter pads for running backs and receivers, cleats, gloves, Heavy big pads for linemen, etc. I could go on, but I hope you get the point.

    In the real world, any "progression" is in yourself. It is in your improved skill, your greater dexterity, your knowledge of strategy and tactics. Chess GMs and Wimbledon champions are better players. They are not assisted by changing game mechanics.

    I love this^ because you seem to either subconsciously leave out "run faster, jump higher" or were to lazy to go back and cut it from your first paragraph lol

    not because the game artificially rewards the time spent playing.

    except is does with resources, barrel bombs, CCBs, and rowboats....

  • @ctl-x-alt-x-del

    You strike me as a person who associates fun with reward in an inseparable way. I get the feeling you can't have fun or enjoy a game without the prospect of an end goal accomplishment. I used to be like this. I used to download terrible PS3 and Steam games for easy achievements and consider that fun but eventually I learned to separate the reward from the experience. I'm not suggesting you do the same but it sounds like a similar mind set.

    Sea of Thieves isn't about developing a character or improving your arsenal or reputation. You could argue it's about making a profit but I'd say even that isn't the core appeal of the game. I've bought almost all the cosmetics I'll ever use, have no need for gold at this point but that hasn't detracted from my enjoyment of the game. I play because quite simply I think the content on offer is worth doing without incentive because it's fun.

    But you say that the content is not fun? If you think that I can't fault you, it took me a long time to warm up to the game and ultimately it might just not be your thing. I won't even pretend the games not flawed. I hate how I have to sink a ship 3 times at a fort, that 95% of the ships I sink don't have good loot aboard and merchant quests are still the worst of the 3 by far.

    But Conceptually Flawed? Most certainly not.

    This is the first, and probably biggest flaw in the games design. Pirates don’t pirate other pirates. This game rewards you for being a [censored]. What’s the easiest way to get gold and gain rep? Let someone else do the work, then just take it. You get everything, and they get literally nothing other than a bad experience.

    To me this quote says that you have a different idea of Sea of Thieves' concept and disagree with Rare's vision which is all fine and good but I don't think that makes it a bad game. If you couldn't pirate other players then the game would be truly lacking in a major way. If there's no progression then you really lose nothing by being sank by other players using your logic but honestly I do understand that it can be painful to feel like you've lost time. But that's the name of the game and you can mitigate losing lots of time by visiting outposts often and taking less risks for a lower payout. Doing voyages yourself is actually more profitable than waiting around for ships to sink in the long run as well.

    The combat is heavy, sticky, and really just unsatisfying in every way.

    The combat may not be the most fluid but it's surprisingly deep with a lot of extra tricks that you may not know about at first. The lunge and side hop can make PvP against a level opponent very tense and a real test of skill

    How much more advanced are you at 40 hours of play time, than you are at 4? You certainly look snazzy with your gold eye-patch and pearl cannons. Has anything changed though, or are you still doing the exact same things.

    All gold let’s you do is search for more gold, so nothing to work towards.

    Again this progression thing seems to be your main driving point but it's just not at the center of the experience. There's no rush, there's plenty of ways to make gold now and gold's not even the most rewarding part of the game. Rather it's the stories you leave with in my opinion.

    Me and my friends like to joke about by throwing loot overboard as a sacrifice to the gods for better luck on our voyages. That's not at all a mechanic of the game but we do it because it's funny and it adds to our storytelling experience.

    Try playing without progression in mind, without thinking about gold. Try getting as much loot on board and decorate your ship with it because it looks appealing rather than because you look forward to turning it in. Or just sail casually and chat with your friends. Our ship is like a hangout spot for me and my crew who live far away from me. It's a chance to relax and chat and maybe get an interesting story out of it on the way.

    Then when those tense moments do come up and you have to focus and try your hardest it'll be that much more engaging and meaningful. It'll also feel more rewarding when you do complete those tasks. But don't do those tasks because there's a reward at the end.

    It's about the journey not the destination

    Stick with it a little longer and it might all come together and become an enjoyable game. It might just not be your thing and that's fine but don't blame the game for your inability to enjoy what it offers.

    ... And don't be so cocky it doesn't make you look smart

  • @ctl-x-alt-x-del

    I agree with a few things you said, but disagree with most of what you said.

    We agree on the ship being very cool, and that the melee combat could use Some work, but where you completely lost me is progression; you can leave that in World of Warcraft. Progression of a character power is a bad thing in most games excluding MMORPG / RPG's.

    However Sea of Thieves is not an MMORPG, or an RPG in that sense and needs none of those horrible things injected to ruin it.

    If you want that, then play a game that already has that where you can't get murdered and robbed. In other words this is a you need to play better issues, not a game broken issue.

  • @ctl-x-alt-x-del sagte in 1,402 words about why I'm smarter than you're:

    This game is conceptually flawed, and I can prove it mathematically

    Neither can you, nor do you.
    I understand that you do not understand the game and do not like it. You could leave it at that. Instead, you try to explain to those who like the game that it' s so bad? Just play another game.

  • @Ctl-x-Alt-x-Del

    • That title was probably meant to be clever, but there is a reason that is not used in normal language. It is not grammatically correct.
    • "This game is conceptually flawed, and I can prove it mathematically" That isn't possible no matter what sense you put it in. You can't just apply math to an idea.
    • "The quest: still grindy
      The combat: still clunky
      The progression: still nothing"
      The quest system has to be 'grindy'. If you could complete the game's PvE in 30 minutes why add it at all? It gives a long term goal for those who want to play the PvE part of the game.
    • "But at least you can redo your tattoos, so no need for a proper character creator." They don't want everybody to look the same, so it is randomly generated. You can still choose out of a near infinite amount of options.
    • You and your friend Kyle must have similar interests (makes sense, that's how friendships tend to work). So you don't like the game, maybe because you just don't like some of the community, or, maybe because you also didn't play it the way it was meant to be played. You specifically described using your time as doing one stronghold (sure, it went south quickly but there's plenty more of them to do that won't) and "just doing treasure hunting". You aren't meant to grind and only grind. You are meant to enjoy the journey, have fun with your friends, meet new people, and leave with fond memories of the good times you have had. You don't have to remember the bad ones (and because of the way the human brain works, you won't). Take that stronghold as an example. You had some fun, and it was spoiled after by some other person. You could remember the fun you had, but you choose to focus on the negative side of it.
    • Ships don't spawn 2 islands away. They used to, but they don't anymore (the community already made sure of that). They can spawn at varying distances ranging from just out of sight to on the opposite corner of the map.
    • "This is the first, and probably biggest flaw in the games design. Pirates don’t pirate other pirates. This game rewards you for being a [censored]. What’s the easiest way to get gold and gain rep? Let someone else do the work, then just take it. You get everything, and they get literally nothing..." So... I don't get you here. Basically, pirates don't do pirate things (like stealing from and murdering basically everyone they encounter), instead they steal your loot and kill you.
    • Calling looting the 'best way to progress' is quite the stretch. If you are lucky, yes, nothing beats it. However, most of the ships sailing around have nothing on them, and especially won't have much the next time around.
    • "Games should be fun to lose. I can lose a game of monopoly and still have fun playing. I can lose a round of [insert fighting game here] and still enjoy the fight." This game can be very fun to lose, although (like all games) sometimes it isn't. It especially isn't if you don't prefer the game type anyways (like how I don't much like those fighting games you described). Unless you play even less then me (and I only play a couple times a year), you have to have seen or been the person raging over a game of Monopoly. I've lost friends over Monopoly. Fun games can be entirely unfun to lose.
    • Your definition of progression hurts you a lot more than it helps. Moving that number up is a more advanced state, even if the titles, commendations and entire Pirate Legend system weren't there.
    • "Has anything changed though, or are you still doing the exact same things." (you didn't even put a question mark) Yes. plenty has changed. I have in-game markings or progression, such as having that higher number below my name, shown to everyone who sees me if I so desire. I have more things unlocked, more difficult missions, and more gold. All of that alongside that number, which is, again, progression in itself. I also benefit from having knowledge of the game, such as the locations, names and appearances of each island, the locations of riddle clues, the lore behind the island's cave paintings, how to maximize the distance of my sword-dash, the spawn rate of strongholds, the amount of ships I should see, where to go to avoid getting in range of the volcanoes, how to escape the megalodons and skeleton ships, the layouts of all of the ships, the companies and how to manage their quests, and so many other things.
    • If the game's progression system (which you earlier almost denied existing in the first place) is so drastically simple, why did you have to simplify it more? So you could use it as an excuse to twist it to your side without feeling as guilty?
    • Sure, you could say a selling point was hunting skeletons, or RPGing as a merchant (which a good amount of people do), but those weren't the point. The point was you could go and do almost anything you could imagine. If you look hard enough at the crews you see you will find people RPGing as cutthroats, or forming huge 'royal alliances', trying to land in volcanoes, holding contests of duels on the yards (the crossbeams the sails hang off of) and minigames like firing a cannonball through the rear of a sloop. People are out there, making their own fun. Just as intended. That was the catchphrase you mentioned, after all. Make your own fun.
    • Sure skeletons can be frustrating. If you couldn't fight them hand to hand, why not show them the business end or a cannon? Or go find a gunpowder keg and give them an explosive surprise? You could easily get around the frustration.
    • The combat is quite nice if you are used to a good at it. The sword needs a bit of a slowdown to keep pace with flintlock style firearms, and how fast could you swing a 5 foot iron bar the width of your arm?
    • For one thing, there isn't going to be an 'FPS swordplay game' because as you said, the S stands for shooter and not swordplay. The reason for this, however, is because that is what the acronym was made to abbreviate. No one made an acronym and decided I should make a game for this new genre, even though it will be the only one and not even worth an acronym. Some games have better melee combat, sure. Some games have faster melee combat. But those better combat systems are all they had to work on, compared to also having to work on all of the other things in Sea of Thieves. Those faster combat systems didn't have to keep balance with a firearm that has to reload after every shot.
    • Yes, the sailing is where this game shines the most. That was the point of the game. You spend most of your time out on the sea. The cannons have their issues with that and the sailing is very peaceful. At least you could still appreciate some part of this game.
    • "What I described above may certainly sound like a game, but it’s not. It’s a tech demo." Sea of Thieves is essentially an early access game, but that title can't be used anymore because of the sea of unfinished games sloppily copied and posted by lazy, cheap developers.
    • "Sea of Thieves is not a game. It's a sandbox." You are somewhat right. It is a sandbox, although it has to be a game to be so (you keep switching between 'it's a bad game' and 'it's not a game'). That is the point, for you to strive out and do what you want. You don't have to follow the quests at all, you can just explore the world if you want to. You can do so many things, because it's a sandbox game.
    • "I paid Rare so I don’t have to make my own fun. I kinda thought they made the fun for me." Then why did you settle on a game with the literal tagline 'make your own fun'? It isn't what you wanted, you can't blame the game for that if you already knew before you got it.
    • "Here’s where the math I promised earlier comes in. $60 for 20h, that’s $3/ph. 10 minutes of fun in 20 hours, that’s 19:50 wasted time. 19:50 at $3/ph comes out to $59.50 wasted. $0.50 worth of content is what I feel I’ve been given. $0.50 for 10 minutes is a gumball (a large gumball, but still a gumball)." That isn't proving it is a bad game by any means, it's proving you didn't like what you had. By the way, how did you manage to go for nearly 20 hours if you hated what you were doing? No wonder you have so much against it, you used it to torture yourself.
    • "I’m not here to tell you that you don’t like this game if you do."
      "I refuse to believe anyone genuinely thinks they got a game worth the asking price."
      By your logic, (this is combined with the math part), anyone who enjoyed all or most of this game is not to be believed, if you believe the game's worth to be directly related to enjoyment while playing it.
    • "I used to like this game, I still really want to. The game just makes it so difficult to enjoy. There’s no easy quick fix solution to make this game better. In fact, I think this game CAN’T get better. Its biggest flaws aren’t mechanical or anything that can just be patched or added. This game is just poorly designed as a pirate RPG." This game, as you and I have both said, isn't and RPG. It is a sandbox. That is why you don't get unfair weapon and ship upgrades, which you consider to be the 'progression' this game needs.
    • "No, I don't think I'm smarterer than you're." Would have been nice to see that warning at the beginning. I would have kept in mind that you actually considered that some people might be smarterer than yourself. At least you did though, so there is that.
  • @ctl-x-alt-x-del

    You're what? Haha.

    It was your opinion, and a good read.

  • The OP is just not hooked to SoT and approach it the "wrong" way unable to have fun.
    No problem and not really a "wrong" way, just not complementary regarding player and game.
    I in many aspects have the complete opposite opinion.
    And i have fun playing SoT.
    Nothing to argue here, it's just about personal taste and how to approach this game or games in general.

  • "1,402 words about why I'm smarter than you ARE."

    Sorry couldn't help myself. Do continue.

  • @scraping-static said in 1,402 words about why I'm smarter than you're:

    @alexspk13 said in 1,402 words about why I'm smarter than you're:

    @surveyorpete said in 1,402 words about why I'm smarter than you're:

    Progression: noun
    the process of developing or moving gradually towards a more advanced state.

    So often we read that "there is no progression in Sea of Thieves"; by which the critic means that the game does not make itself easier for someone that has played a long time, and earned lots of gold and reputation. They cannot run faster, jump higher, take more damage, nor do they get more powerful, or more accurate, weapons.

    But, think about it. No real world games offer this sort of "progression". If you are a chess Grand Master, you do not get extra pawns, or 3 lives for your Queen, or a knight's move for your King. If you are a Wimbledon champion, the net is not lower, or the opponents side of the court bigger, nor are you allowed two faults at service instead of one.

    In the real world, any "progression" is in yourself. It is in your improved skill, your greater dexterity, your knowledge of strategy and tactics. Chess GMs and Wimbledon champions are better players. They are not assisted by changing game mechanics.

    So it is with the Sea of Thieves. A true Pirate Legend knows the map by heart, and the islands by sight, he knows the techniques to defeat different types of emergent threats, and the various tactics available for PvP. He knows when to stand and fight, when to run, and when to try to negotiate. He has progressed in his skill at the game – not because the game artificially rewards the time spent playing.

    I refuse to believe anyone genuinely thinks they got a game worth the asking price.

    I think that: Whether you believe it or not.

    This game is conceptually flawed, and I can prove it mathematically

    No, you didn't.

    Agreed. All this told me is that you’re butthurt that other people steal your gold, and your idea of progression is completely off for a pirate game. The combat isn’t “clunky” as you suggest.. if you’re good at it it comes very fluidly. Stop speaking for everyone. You can only speak for yourself.

    Stop making pointless rants about the game

    Chill, you’re actually butthurt. They make a donut-like ring for you to sit on that helps soothe that I’m pretty sure. Let dude say what he wants.

    +1 for the combat being clunky. I don’t mind though. I’m used to it and I don’t think there’s any need for tweaking. I can live without the mlg dweebs ruining sea of thieves by going all try hard with advanced combat mechanics.

    Was never butthurt.. I apologize if I came off that way. I was simply saying that he cant distinguish personal opinion and what other peoples opinions are

  • @ctl-x-alt-x-del Let me start by saying its a pirate game, stealing is part of the deal and i dont understand the thing that you said "we tried to take a skeleton fort, and got all the gold skeletons into a puddle, and blew them up" i dont see the problem with that dont you think that maybe you are just whining about the game?
    and the second thing i wanted to say again i respect your opinion but progression in this game is the best!
    instead of skills and perks you are getting better ive felt the diffrence today i can sink a galleon full of PL by myself with a sloop and the only reason was because of my progression.

  • @faceyourdemon Maybe it would be nice if you'd get a small reward for finding a treasure chest or killing a skeleton captain. That way, when someone takes all your loot from you, you still feel like you 'achieved' something. The real reward is indeed getting better at the game. You get real-life skills instead of in-game perks, and that's cool. But not everyone has time to become great at the game, some people just wanna chill and find treasure. And I think this might be a nice solution for those players. :)

  • @princes-lettuce you dont have to become the best that is the greatest aspect of the game someone who just started today can land a good shot with a blunderbass and kill you. you dont have to become the best its a great game for chilling, the story in almost each island sailing is just fun and relaxing and you dont have to die hard for having fun.
    I enjoy that but i also enjoy hardcore PVP to taunt a galleon with my sloop and destroy or challenge an allience to a fight it depends how you want to play.

  • 11:59h - Sea of Thieves doesn't have any progression, no reward, etc. I invested $60 in this game?
    00:00h - Oh my god! There's a new survival game just for $99,90! Let's spend lotta time making a campfire!!!

  • ((((( @Ctl-x-Alt-x-Del )))))))) <~~~ Man you sound like you need a hug!☺

  • Wow, I kinda thought no one would bother reading this, and it would just die.
    Few clarifications then.

    1. Yes, I know I shouldn't use "you're". That was the joke. It was for comedy/ click-bait.

    2. Yes I am salty (as a pirate should be, lol) and butthurt. I believed in this game, and I feel like Rare has really let me down.

    3. @Cpt-Parr0t-Head. Yes, yes I do

    4. @SurveyorPete

    So often we read that "there is no progression in Sea of Thieves"; by which the critic means that the game does not make itself easier for someone that has played a long time, and earned lots of gold and reputation. They cannot run faster, jump higher, take more damage, nor do they get more powerful, or more accurate, weapons.

    But, think about it. No real world games offer this sort of "progression". If you are a chess Grand Master, you do not get extra pawns, or 3 lives for your Queen, or a knight's move for your King. If you are a Wimbledon champion, the net is not lower, or the opponents side of the court bigger, nor are you allowed two faults at service instead of one.

    I never thought about it like that. You're right, plenty of games don't have a physical progression system. But you also said that that this argument comes up so often. Maybe, just maybe, if it's coming up so often, then maybe, just maybe, the game should have one. Doesn't have to be straight upgrades.


    I like playing SoT. I really do. I even like the PvP. I don't like it when I lose my loot, and the realization sets in that I've been grinding fetch-quest for 2h, and have nothing to show for it now.

  • @faceyourdemon said in 1,402 words about why I'm smarter than you're:

    @princes-lettuce you dont have to become the best that is the greatest aspect of the game someone who just started today can land a good shot with a blunderbass and kill you. you dont have to become the best its a great game for chilling, the story in almost each island sailing is just fun and relaxing and you dont have to die hard for having fun.
    I enjoy that but i also enjoy hardcore PVP to taunt a galleon with my sloop and destroy or challenge an allience to a fight it depends how you want to play.

    Not entirely true. When me and my friends get 'hunted down' by other players, they are always excellent at the fighting skills whereas we are just 'meh'

    They charge, they jump, they turn...

    We get killed every single time. Guess we just suck at the game, even though we've been playing it since launch. My point is, don't think everyone can land a good shot with a blunderbuss and get out of a nasty situation.

  • @ctl-x-alt-x-del If you don't like losing your treasure you can turn in often and keep one eye pointed at the sea. Unless the fog is used (which people may kill themselves doing) you should see them coming. If you don't like the grind, you don't have to focus on it. Look at basically any video on the game. People are having fun with their friends, while doing the quests in the background. You can go around until you find something you like to do, and keep doing that.

  • don't feed the leaving Klabautermann.

  • It's not a bad game, it's just not a game for you. I think you just have to deal with it, the game is not what you want.

  • @ctl-x-alt-x-del
    Hello Young Sir, i really don't know what to say, or better speak to you in a polite way...If you would ever apply to a job i would suggest that you don't use lines like " How much more advanced are you at 40 hours of playtime , than you are at 4?"...Really , if you play the same way after 40 hours of gameplay as if you played 4, really means that you don't learn for your experiences and mistakes ...For me it reads like " after 40 hours ,i still don't look at the horizon, i still get ambushed and i still haven't force myself in gathering resources and so on and on...If you tell that in a jobinterview , that you willbe the same guy , nomatter how much time you have spend in that company , well that jobinterviewer will pint you to the door...

    The fact that you can't have fun and don't get fun during fights or when somebody steals from you ,means that you put gold and reputation above all else...From the moment you would see that stolen gold just means nothing, because you can get yer gold back by chasing it , or just put some new maps on the table, conquer a new fort , sink another skeleton ship, or kill a Meg or Krakki....So many ways to earn money or steal money...There is nowhere in your opinion piece that you mention Alliances...You made notice of yer "Massive" play experience of 20! hours...
    Dear Lad, i've played many ,many hundreds of hours and i discover almost daily new things i haven't seen nor "felt"...Yes , Sir , flet coming from the word "feeling"...Have you ever felt happy while you played with Kyle , have you ever reached out to other Pirates ,have you ever enjoyed the feel of selfpride when you helped a new Pirate who couldn't solve a riddle?

    You wrote that you ragequit many games and will rage quit many more..."Anger just festers"...Anger , anywhere in your life , is the reason why you can't enjoy this game , anger is the reason ,why you can't understand this game...Anger is the reason why you can't comprehend that Rare is making something new...You really don't "see" why Rare has made this game ,.You never seem to have listened to the numerous times that Mr Chapman told you that Rare delivers the tools but that the player ,him/herself will make their own adventure...An adventure that will have four different people in a crew and therefor four different recollections...

    i know , you expected somekind of new " BlackFlag" , a game that takes you by the hand ,let you do some missions and give you a cinimatic as a reward...You won't get that here because it was NEVER promised and explained that way...

    This game has a Level system but it doesn't prove the experience that a Pirate has...You said yourself, that it doesn't matter if you played this game 4 or 40 hours , you still wouldn't liked it , because you have learn't nothing during these 40 hours...

    All you did was building an anger and a frustration and let that out...Such a waste of time...If you instead would asked for some assistance into explaining this game to you , or ask people where they get their fun you would see that many would have taken your hand and would have included you in their journey's in wich you would reallyget a whole different insight and judgement in this game...

    You have been honest to us and i will be honest to you , normally i would offer you an adventure alongside with the dumbest and most naieve Pirate this Forum has, me .But i will tell you something honestly to you too, i'm afraid of you , the words Anger makes me wonder how you will work in a crew , how much you are "open" for wellmeant advice...

    You have a very long way to go before you will learn to appreciate this and any other game...If you let Anger take over in yer life ,you will see alot of doors becoming closed when you stick yer nose through one...
    This game is a really great game from the moment you have bowed to the fact that you can lose and not get angry about it, if that first and most important step has been made ,then you are ready to see how other people will enrich your being ,thinking and purely enjoying of the game...

    You have alot of work to do before you will enjoy this and anyother game , and that's not Rare's nor anyother developer 's fault...
    The way i see it , is that you never understood what SOT is about not in the first hour ,nor after 20 hours , and so i fear that this game isn't a game for you...Unless you are prepared to work on your general vision of the world...Get rid off that anger, starting today while you are still young, because anger has lead no man to any good in his life...

    You may be angry at me, feel i have offended you but i try to let you see that you can only enjoy this game if you are fully tranquil with yourself...Then you WILL learn and proceed in this game, no not by the number of a level but by opening yer Heart and set aside your anger , only then you will see and " feel" what this game is...

  • I really don't think that you want to like this game, much less of anything. You just spent a good chunk of time talking about what you apparently really don't like instead of moving on. If you really don't like the game, ok, that is your opinion, you are certainly entitled to it. But the way you are scrutinizing life down to financial return on playing video games, I'm not sure spending time on forums is the best direction for you right now.

  • The fun doesn’t really kick in until after you’ve played for 20 hours 😂😂😂 Give it time.

  • @clumsy-george

    Ok, dude, Ima be real with you,

    Yea, you get better as a player the more time you spend in a game. Everyone agrees on that, that has never been the point of discussion in any post relating to "progression" I'm talking about character progression, not player.

    I never said "massive" in regards to my play time, you misquoted me.

    If anger is preventing me from enjoying the game, and the game is what made me angry, then the game is whats preventing me from enjoying the game. I would also suggest reading WHY I'm angry. Because it's not because I died or lost my ship.

    I don't know what you're referring to with "BlackFlag". If it's the assassins creed, I never played that one.

    I'm not angry in the way you may think I am. I don't leave my computer and punch a wall when I quit the game. I'm angry because I like the game, until the game decides to smack me down with a reality check that (and I've said this at least 3 times today alone but) my last 2h grind was lost and I have nothing, NOTHING to show for it. Yea the game is fun with friends, so is getting your chest waxed. A game shouldn't rely on outside things to be fun.

  • @ctl-x-alt-x-del
    And that's just the point, Sir ...The game feels like a " Grind " for you....Grinding is the perfect first step to hate the game...Does every game needs to end with what you can show to yourself or to others...Seriously, i have lost hundreds of ships , from all kind of reasons, my own stupidity , a misscommunication, better " enemy" players and so on and on...If you look up " loser" in yer dictionary you will see my picture...But ...i don't care ...i lost game money , a free ship in the game and some time but all of it doesn't leave a scar nor a hurt...i take my ledger and write " Another day at the Sea , another Loss...No worries tomorrow is another day, alongside...My Friends..." That is the most important fact of this game...Really Sir, if i could let you feel what i have felt during so many many evenings , you would immediatly try again to re experience that same feeling...

    This game isn't bad ...It is something i can't define...i call it Magic...Some will call me crazy but those i have sailed with know how happy i can be...And i simply can't be this same in any other game...i wish i could bottle it and i would give it away for free...But that's not how it works...This game grows on you from the moment you set Freindship ,fun and company above earnings, Levels and so on....That's what i try to tell you and anger, grinding or feeling sad about lost imaginary gold are the Devil that squeezes this game into a cold death....

  • @ctl-x-alt-x-del
    How much more advanced are you at 40 hours of play time, than you are at 4?

    This line right here shows me you really don't understand the game. I am not trying to be negative toward you, it's just my observation.

    At first glance when I tried SoT I thought it was a very simple game with simple grinding mechanic. After my 14 day trial was up I was hesitant on spending $60 for what I thought was a simple game. The fact I saw the Rare adding free content to the game is what convinced me to invest and I am gladI did.

    I have made friends along the way to my A10 journey, I have sailed countless hours and I still can't wait to get home to play. Why? Because there is a lot more to the game, there are many ways to play especially since the latest patch.

    I can now pretty much sail around the sea without even looking at the map, I know tactics and how to adjust. I love the thrill of fighting other players, I love spotting rare things and killing them. I pretty much just love this game in general.

    I am sorry you're not having fun but for me, I can't get enough.

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