Xbox players, I'm sorry...

@binaryplayerone Thanks man I don't even bother complaining about it TBH I know that a keyboard has an advantage over a controller and that no matter what devs do that will remain...I won't say I'm happy with how it is but I am not gonna bother complaining about it...what is the point..as far as I am concerned I don't care what platform people play on as long as PC players don't brag about how rich they are to afford a 4K UHD 60fps PC I am perfectly content to play with anyone regardless of Race, Gender or platform.
Signed-- The Legendary Captain Dom

Interesting tactic.

I have been playing for 3 months now and I can tell when I come up against PC players. They seem to be dead on shots with cannons and other weapons. Also it seems like they can swing the cutlass faster.

@sharkbaitmorgan that's just what it like going up against a good player. Just because they're better than you doesn't mean they're on PC.

Often when playing with some of my friends on Xbox they are accused of being "PC hackers" (as I was when I played on Xbox). That's why I don't take that excuse seriously.

Sometimes when you go up against high skill differential players it can feel unfair; even hopeless at times. It still happens to me occasionally. There's always someone bigger and Bader out there. That's just the way things work.

@bsr-freeman I know plenty of people on Xbox that double gun. They also map jump to the right stick button so that they can jump around like rabbits. Many also use elite controllers so that they can map the switch weapons button to one of the paddles. This allows them to do the quick double shots.

99% of combat outcomes are a direct result of skill, not input device.

I know this is a hot topic, and tempers seem to flare a bit. But the fact is, I often am forced to play on my PC as my kids take over the Xbox when they come over on visitation. And if it is just a chill and relax time and they want to play their own game without dad, then I play on the pc. I use a controller for both, though the controller on pc is hardwired. Even between the two controllers you can notice a difference in speed of response. In fact, I spin waaaay to fast on my pc compared to my xbox. I have even dialed down my sensitivity on my pc because one little push and I would be going 90 degrees sideways vs a small adjustment to the left or right.

I will however say as I have said before, there are ways of limiting the advantage a pc player has. Usually, if I am matched up with someone equally as skilled as myself and they are on pc and I am on xbox, then they will have the advantage. However I won't use that as an excuse as to why I lost. Instead I focus even more on ways to mitigate that advantage.

As to why I continue to play on the console vs the pc knowing the disadvantage, I simply like the visuals on my console better and my lazy boy is way better than my pc chair. LOL

Thank you for having an open mind and acknowledging the difference. I play on both and yes xbox is at a dis advantage and the feature should be OPTIONAL.
PC players thinking otherwise havent played both as you experienced. Thinking it will break the game is naive.

@personalc0ffee said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@binaryplayerone I use an Xbox controller and I've sent many a PC player to an early grave.

In fact, @xRukusu and I have a nice little story about how we embarrassed a keyboard user who was being cocky and then dueled me and I whooped him so bad, he lied about the platform he was using when he was bragging about it before I got there.

So no, I don't buy any of this PC "advantage" nonsense, with the exception of aiming.

It is about skill.

If you keep getting killed, you lack the skill.

How can you possibly believe that skill is the only factor here? I mean you literally conceded in the preceding sentence that PC users have an advantage in aiming. I would venture to say that if questioned you would make other concessions as well about fps and hot keys

@binaryplayerone said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

Xbox players, you have been posting more or less since the launch of Sea of Thieves that you feel that playing against PC players is unfair. That cross-play need to be optional.

I play most of my time on PC and on my Xbox a few times now and then. Not often at all. And I've been active in your posts saying that it's not a problem and that you need to adjust your play style etc. Other PC forum players have also been active in these post telling you how you are wrong. And I have been one of them.

And for that I ask you to forgive me for my arrogance. I'm sorry. I was wrong. And everything I've written about you the Xbox players using a controller is more or less wrong.

I've been away for a while and only had access to a Xbox to play Sea of Thieves. And my experience coming from almost 6 months of playing on PC is an eye opener. You are in such a disadvantage. I've now experiences for hours what you have been for months. And I'm truly sorry that you have to deal with this. That Rare have not taken you seriously and taken action to make your gaming sessions more fun and fair.

But mostly I'm sorry that I've been so arrogant and dismissed your complaints.

The issue is actually controller Vs Mouse. Not even so much as the platform. The Rate Of rotation was the issue. and Lone behold Rare had the option after all to adjust this issue. In the last Patch they actually increase the sensitivity of the controller to where you can spin much faster. I currently play on the new 8.5 over previously 10 now 5 setting. Yes, I walk off the dock and miss the bow spear jump on occassion, but I'm better in PVP and certainly bette rin PVE because this increased mobility.

Separately, It takes a big man to recognize your mistakes and thank you for speaking about it!

@soulless-rager said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@binaryplayerone said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@personalc0ffee said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@binaryplayerone I use an Xbox controller and I've sent many a PC player to an early grave.

I just watched how you play. And you play "slow" like most console players do with how you move and aim. Sure you can win over mouse & keyboard users. I'm not saying it's impossible or anything like that.

But anyone using a controller is at an disadvantage. And for the average Xbox player that disadvantage is just to much. And is why we for half a year have been seeing Xbox players complaining. And that's just the one's that finds their way to this forum.

This sums it up well enough. Playing on console/with a controller is more limiting than on a PC with mouse and keyboard. You can be at a disadvantage and still beat some PC players, but that is all circumstantial. Needing to overcome the inherent imbalance is the problem.

The shame is that the OP needed to walk a mile in an xbox players shoes, rather than having the common sense to just look at the evidence and realize that obviously higher FPS and mouse precision and keyboard bindings etc. will allow PC players significant advantages.

I don't mean to sound cruel to the OP, because he's owning up to being wrong and arrogant. For that I thank you @BinaryPlayerOne

A lot of this game is circumstantial though, it doesn't depend on raw speed nearly as much as tactics engaging other ships... that is even more true with cursed cannonballs. Even as a PC player Xbox players can easily run me down if they know what they are doing. The one thing you generally have to do is map jump to a position on the controller that allows you to move and jump.

The speed has nothing to do with it. Its far more about tactics and positioning.

@binaryplayerone Do you play with a controller regularly? If you don't your perception of the problem is not going to represent reality. People that have been playing for years with m/kb will not just be as good on the controller. The controller has a different skill with aiming, one you have to build.

@dawson-dev respect to you man for apologizing

@soulless-rager said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@savagetwinky said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@soulless-rager said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@binaryplayerone said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@personalc0ffee said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@binaryplayerone I use an Xbox controller and I've sent many a PC player to an early grave.

I just watched how you play. And you play "slow" like most console players do with how you move and aim. Sure you can win over mouse & keyboard users. I'm not saying it's impossible or anything like that.

But anyone using a controller is at an disadvantage. And for the average Xbox player that disadvantage is just to much. And is why we for half a year have been seeing Xbox players complaining. And that's just the one's that finds their way to this forum.

This sums it up well enough. Playing on console/with a controller is more limiting than on a PC with mouse and keyboard. You can be at a disadvantage and still beat some PC players, but that is all circumstantial. Needing to overcome the inherent imbalance is the problem.

The shame is that the OP needed to walk a mile in an xbox players shoes, rather than having the common sense to just look at the evidence and realize that obviously higher FPS and mouse precision and keyboard bindings etc. will allow PC players significant advantages.

I don't mean to sound cruel to the OP, because he's owning up to being wrong and arrogant. For that I thank you @BinaryPlayerOne

A lot of this game is circumstantial though, it doesn't depend on raw speed nearly as much as tactics engaging other ships... that is even more true with cursed cannonballs. Even as a PC player Xbox players can easily run me down if they know what they are doing. The one thing you generally have to do is map jump to a position on the controller that allows you to move and jump.

The speed has nothing to do with it. Its far more about tactics and positioning.

The problem is that the advantages come into play in PvP scenarios (obviously). The most direct and significant advantages like speed and precision aiming with a mouse come into play with weapons combat. And while a lot of the game focuses on ship combat and tactics, the meta still revolves around putting holes in the enemies ship and boarding and combating enemy crews to prevent them from repairing until they sink. Without boarding the enemy ship it's typically just a battle of attrition with resources. The majority of the time there is a crucial PvP encounter, the outcome is determined by weapons combat where PC/mouse and keyboard advantages thrive most.

Fighting at skull forts (PvP beacons), defending your ship from enemy crews boarding it, or jumping aboard an enemy ship to prevent them from repairing their ship, etc. These outcomes are determined by close quarters weapons combat where PC has the advantage at shuffling through inventory items with more accessible hotkeys and a finer/faster precision with turning and aiming and higher FPS, etc.

These moments might only make up a small percentage of your gameplay in SoT, but they are the most crucial moments that can determine the overall outcome of everything you've been doing.

And you don't need the precision to play like its quake or counter strike, the hit boxes are pretty generous and circumstances and awareness are far more important. Even the close quarters combat still has a large component of tactics/banana management. And we aren't talking about huge arenas... we are looking at a small ship where positioning and planning are more important.

Also the meta no longer revolves around boarding. Cursed cannon balls can easily help you take out a ship in 1-3 rounds of cannon fire. The inventory is actually easier to use with a controller also...

PC does not have that much of an advantage if at all. I routinely play on both using the same tactics. The only disadvantage I feel like I have with a controller is precision bombardment using cannons on skellies far away because there is no ads to slow down the cannon aiming for range. That and just being more familiar with the keyboard.

You guys are just developing an inferiority complex over this whole thing. The best xbox player I know can take out a Galleon of good PC players. This game is about tactics, not twitch response.

This is getting so old hearing everyone talk about how they have no chance against these godly PC players. This game isn't about dualing each other to the death. It's about being strategic and outwitting your opponents.

I played SoT on Xbox for 4 months and dominated servers. Now I've been playing on PC for a month and am still clearing servers.

It's like arguing performance of race cars without considering the skill of the driver. Yes there are differences, but they are only at the margins. It ultimately comes down to the skill of you and your crew.

realy nice to sea someone come out fair of this. amezing respect for you.

i have experienced to.
even with the new adjustments in the new patch Xbox players are still far away form the people who have a keyboard and mouse.

i realy don't get why devs do this untill this day.
thats why i am happy that sony still does not want cross play.

@personalc0ffee said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@jonaldinho Because aiming is the only thing and it absolutely doesn't matter in a non competitive, non e-sport title.

SoT is a casual, kid friendly, pirate fantasy sandbox.

It is not competitive like Black Wake and Skull & Bones.

No, its competitive, its as competitive as you want to make it... the game has mechanics that allow for a skill gap and mastery. SoT Can be casual, it also can be hardcore. There is room for both which is probably a bigger problem when I think the PC community is a bit more on the PvP end compared to xbox community which is more on the casual end...

@personalc0ffee said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@savagetwinky It's actually not meant to be that way and that's where the disparity is coming from. If you listen to the interviews and how the devs talk, it's pretty clear the direction they want the game moving.

It's like playing pirates in the sandbox with kids.

But they also wanted it to be a skill based game. It really doesn't matter how the dev's perceive their game... That skill based game is still in place, and the game can be enjoyed by a more hardcore audience. Games are not hardcore vs casual, players are, and this game caters well to both.

@starship42 said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@binaryplayerone I believe if a scientific study were done comparing mouse/keyboard players vs controller players, the PC players would be shown to generally have an advantage over console players. Which is not to say that there are not some exceptional console players that could whoop PC players... Generally, however, put players of equal skill level together playing on each, and you will find the PC players have greater dexterity and agility of hand control than console players.

I believe the reason for this has nothing to do with a players skill and knowledge of any specific game. It has to do with the design of each set of control devices/mechanisms.

A keyboard/mouse has two essential advantages; 1) two separate and independent devices, untethered to one another, allowing for independent hand movement. 2) a flat surface like a desk or table, which each independent device rests against, effectively achoring it and giving it stability as each device is used.

A console controller is one device, which both hands are effectively tied to and dependent on. This causes both hands to be fixed and lack the freedom to move on their own. Dependency on thumbs to navigate two joysticks is an impediment to manoeuvering ones character in 3D environments. Alot more accidental unintended movements due to awkward joystick rotations, as opposed to a 2D surface that a mouse, combined with flat surface giving stability, can shift around effortlessly. Think about it. A right thumb joystick must point in any direction along an X/Y axis using a 360 degree rotation. Whereas a 2D surface for a mouse, shifts in an X/Y flat plane... not 360 degrees. The flat plane provides a firm up, down, right, left; with the entire hand controlling it. A 360 degree joystick not only moves up, down, left, right, with only thumb control, but doesn't have the stability of a flat surface, causing a sort of drunken, out of control movement when moving forward and backward...

Because a keyboard set of buttons controls forward, back, left right movement, this again simplifies the work of the left hand and fingers.

The console controller has no anchoring flat surface, so is also often in mid-air, held with both hands, that are tied to the same single device, again, causing awkward stiffling of dexterity and agility of hands and arms, let alone fingers.

I believe there are studies that have been done showing the handicap of the console controller compared to the mouse/keyboard combo.

This souhnds like you started out great then lead into some really iffy and stretching arguments... Like why does hand movement matter if you don't have to move your hands? And how are controllers exactly stifling if they take minimal movent? Can you prove that they arne't ergonomic or you just uncomfortable with them because you don't use them as much? The left hand on the PC has significantly more to do, the right hand only has to point and shoot while most people will make use of many shortcuts around wsad... even going as far as hindering movement depending on the layout and choosing. For instance if you use the Q/E keys that means taking your hand off of A/D, same for displacing W with 2 for a moment...

While we can nitpick the one thing you seemed to gloss over is the requirements of the game and how much of that agility/dexterity truly plays a role in moment to moment game play. Also I don't believe there is any agility advantage... and dexterity? Well no to that too but because that makes no sense since someone that is dexterous can use both easily likely.

I don't always start a troll thread, but when I do...I'll be sure to ask @BinaryPlayerOne for advice.

The pc/xbox gap closed when controller sensitivity doubled last update. The main gripe was combat was 1 sided; now it's not.

What's your argument going to be when mouse/keyboard support comes to xb? Planets align better over PC users' homes?

CROSS-PLAY SHOULD NOT BE OPTIONAL

If console players dislike the console gaming experience so much and claim PCs are so advantageous, switch to PC then instead of b******g about it.

No one, including developers, are obligated to cater to people's choice of gaming machines.

I see zero difference between a console player whining about their gaming experience and some PC gamer whining about their video card performance. Either problem is fixable, and in the same fashion.

@violentandroid said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

I don't always start a troll thread, but when I do...I'll be sure to ask @BinaryPlayerOne for advice.

The pc/xbox gap closed when controller sensitivity doubled last update. The main gripe was combat was 1 sided; now it's not.

What's your argument going to be when mouse/keyboard support comes to xb? Planets align better over PC users' homes?

CROSS-PLAY SHOULD NOT BE OPTIONAL

Meh, not really. Pc players still have much more responsive movements on screen. I don’t mean sensitivity. I guess FPS I mean. Idk because I’m not a techy. Pc players can still navigate the map faster, load into servers faster, aim cannons faster (I’m pretty sure). I’m not complaining, just pointing out facts. It really doesn’t affect me, but I’m bored and I find entertainment right now in browsing the forum and putting my 2¢ where I see fit.

@personalc0ffee said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

I never said no one had advantage.

I said it doesn't matter in this game due to the type of game it is.

No optional crossplay, ever.

And in response to you. During my time lurking the forum... haven’t you been a strong advocate for this “level playing field” that Rare said they’d create? Or maybe I read wrong and you always said you don’t mind unlevel playing because of the type of game this is.

@starship42 said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@savagetwinky hand movement does matter for the mouse/keyboard operator, depending whether one is left or right handed. Mice are moved across a flat surface. Let's say you had a keyboard for your left hand, and a joystick for your right. You would likely have a similar problem as with the controller. Only with a joystick you could use the entire hand, whereas with the controller one is restricted to right thumb.

but you can't compare hand movement of 1 input to one that doesnt' need it... its not comparable because your presumption is hand movement = better based on what? So what? I have to move my hand to turn right vs my thumb?

The fact we must use our left and right hand independently, with two separate devices, gives us the freedom to move our right hand with a mouse, anywhere on a flat 2D plane. The entire hand is at play, which gives greater control over the mouse, whereas only the right thumb is used to control a small joystick on the controller.

An unnecessary freedom with a controller. And I don't know why you think the stability matters all that much more either, yah maybe your hands aren't stable relative your seated position, but your hands are holding the controller... so you hands relative to the buttons are perfectly stable for operation.

We can't discount the role a solid flat surface plays in providing stability either.

I just did, your comparison is kind of ridiculous.

A controller is held by both hands, sometimes in player laps, or on legs, to provide some needed stability as both hands are struggling to use the buttons on a controller simutaneously, causing it to move, to tug of war, back and forth as pressure points are applied. There is no stability, or at least, very little by comparison to a desk or table, for the mouse, and full hand control while shifting it along the hard, flat surface. I'm sure a blind test could be done on different PC and console players to see if there are differences in performance. Have them play same game for an hour, then switch them around and see how each plays differently. The agility and dexterity of the players hands and in the case of the mouse, the arm, could be measured, and contrasted against each's performance using both devices, on the same game, at different times.

This is absolute rubbish. You don't "tug of war" a controller in any way, you don't need to move your hands beyond finding a comfortable position.

I've used both sets of devices. I was a PC player for many years, then changed to playing console games and have played them for many years also. Overall, I know there are distinct advantages to playing PC over console.

Based on your description, I'm not sure you know how to use a controller correctly.

But it would be hard to prove without conducting a controlled experiment with a large test group who didn't know you were testing those devices as used by players of equal skill level on the same games.

It also depends on the game. Where the PC has absolute benefits with more keys and a 1:1 movement with the mouse as far as your arm can reach. This matters for more with precision at different ranges while still having agility to quickly look around. This is something that is easily measurable and comparable. A joystick can only go from 1-100 essentially and the range of motion is very small. So its hard to make the character move quickly while mainting aiming at range because 1-100 can translate to 0-100 or 0-1000 in speed. Someone's thumb can't be that precise the wider the range, and the limitation to keep the precision creates an inherent limitation on speed. So a mouse can keep precision at range + speed in close by just wiping your hand around when you need to move faster.

Unfortunately it seems most people are having problems with CQC, in a game where the hit boxes are generous. The controller wouldn't make that much of a difference so long as someone can turn fast enough. But from my POV the players that die so easily just aren't good, they have poor awareness of their surroundings and also are bad at staying moving, and have really poor reaction times... and tactics... like the control method didn't make a difference when 3 people chased me down and I killed all 3 of them by positioning myself for a sword lunge and they fell for it every time.

@squaz05 said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@savagetwinky said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@personalc0ffee said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@jonaldinho Because aiming is the only thing and it absolutely doesn't matter in a non competitive, non e-sport title.

SoT is a casual, kid friendly, pirate fantasy sandbox.

It is not competitive like Black Wake and Skull & Bones.

No, its competitive, its as competitive as you want to make it... the game has mechanics that allow for a skill gap and mastery. SoT Can be casual, it also can be hardcore. There is room for both which is probably a bigger problem when I think the PC community is a bit more on the PvP end compared to xbox community which is more on the casual end...

Sea of Thieves is as Casual as it gets

an Indy Casual overpriced game with no ranks, no ladders, no stats, no meaningful progression and 3 missions that are the same from level 1 to max level. (just longer)

No, You didn't mention anything that makes a game hardcore or not... ladders/stats/ranks/progression are all things that casuals can enjoy, maybe they won't be number 1, but that is just a tool for a hardcore player to utilize in the same way.