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@binaryplayerone said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

Xbox players, you have been posting more or less since the launch of Sea of Thieves that you feel that playing against PC players is unfair. That cross-play need to be optional.

I play most of my time on PC and on my Xbox a few times now and then. Not often at all. And I've been active in your posts saying that it's not a problem and that you need to adjust your play style etc. Other PC forum players have also been active in these post telling you how you are wrong. And I have been one of them.

And for that I ask you to forgive me for my arrogance. I'm sorry. I was wrong. And everything I've written about you the Xbox players using a controller is more or less wrong.

I've been away for a while and only had access to a Xbox to play Sea of Thieves. And my experience coming from almost 6 months of playing on PC is an eye opener. You are in such a disadvantage. I've now experiences for hours what you have been for months. And I'm truly sorry that you have to deal with this. That Rare have not taken you seriously and taken action to make your gaming sessions more fun and fair.

But mostly I'm sorry that I've been so arrogant and dismissed your complaints.

Adjust your play style -- buying an Xbox and considering yourself a "gamer" is the middle of the road. The top is PC, the middle is console, and the bottom is mobile gaming. Again, that goes back to how you chose to play.

I play this game on a budget computer I build in 2011... you could get the equivalent of it for about $100 now. lol...

@personalc0ffee said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@savagetwinky We have a level playing field except maybe with the introduction of the CCB.

But then one can argue kegs are also an advantage.

Like I said earlier, you can not have a TRUE level playing field. There is always going to be someone with an advantage or better skills.

This conversation has been done to death and is pointless.

Is control inputs truly a level playing field? While I disagree with the problems people state in CQC... I still agree on a whole that kb/m users have an advantage, especially since the game engages in different ranges, but I'm not sure how much of a difference it makes. But it does make a difference.

And you can try to match make based on skill metrics to make playing the game more enjoyable, your again, wrong when they already mitigated the issue of huge skill disparities in prior games. Without some grouping players based on skill or something the huge skill gaps you end up seeing are off putting to both groups of players. Its not fun to instantaneously sink a ship that poses no threat, and its not fun to feel like you have no ability to fight back.

The problem is without a ranked based match making. People see that there are large skill gaps and right now they are likely just falsely attributing it to kb/m vs controller... This has to be addressed or everyone will leave the game.

@personalc0ffee said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@savagetwinky Dude, this isn't some MMO.

Their shared world is shared play styles in an instance. I understand exactly the game I'm playing and what shared world means.

Shared world means PvPvE together in an instance or what the community calls servers. When in reality many instances are located on one server.

And the players are split based on the instance, and there is nothing against a "shared world adventure" game that would be inappropriate for using control method to organize instances, which already use regions.

When the developer saying they don't want to break the community up that has nothing to do with a "shared world adventure" because functionally that is just the game mode. They don't want to break the experience up by segregating the community on features or modes creating a shared experience. Players all have to play the same shared world adventure game, but they are all separated via instances... by region.. and maybe some other characteristics behind the scenes that we don't know of.

Also its irrelevant if they use 1 server many instances vs 1 instance many servers... from a functional standpoint we are in an instance with a fixed group of people... occasionally two instances might get merged if there aren't enough people, and people come and go like any normal game with servers.

@squaz05 said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@savagetwinky

i think i understand you!

you have a competitive nature and you apply your competitive nature to sea of thieves

sea of thieves as is, does not have competition elements.

thats where you and I are confusing the arguments.
you are talking about your competitive nature while i am talking about competition elements.

as for hardcore...no-lifing the game can be hardcore I suppose... (if we stretch the definition)

Wrong, sea of thieves most certainly has competitive elements and mechanics. Forts are a clear place to allow competition to happen.

Your confusing competition with tools to rank competitive actions... those are just tools that allow you to rank yourself against other people. But that doesn't mean that you can't compete for loot in sea of thieves by stealing/protecting loot.

Your just wrong... competition isn't defined by competitive tools.

And I'm not stretching the defintion of hardcore...

1. unswervingly committed; uncompromising; dedicated
2. noting or relating to video games that can only be mastered with advanced skill and are played in longer sessions, or noting a player of such games:

The original definition is an attribute people have and their approach to a game. The reason why games are considered "hardcore" is when they are intentionally design for players to invest to master it. But as we know, mario is not a hardcore game yet still has a hardcore player base. And that definition tends to fall apart with mario or games when there is definitely a casual element to the game but a hardcore community finds some depth... and SoT where the mechanics for ship battle have depth and require mastery and there will be a large skill gap between casuals vs hardcore players... and the lack of a ranking system means matches will be inconsistent and probably unfun for a lot of people.

@savagetwinky

i think i understand you!

you have a competitive nature and you apply your competitive nature to sea of thieves

sea of thieves as is, does not have competition elements.

thats where you and I are confusing the arguments.
you are talking about your competitive nature while i am talking about competition elements.

as for hardcore...no-lifing the game can be hardcore I suppose... (if we stretch the definition)

@squaz05 said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

"Does a hardcore game require mechanics for hardcore players?" - YES
Mario Bros hardcore community has a ranking of speed runners... look it up.

The game itself doesn't though... So your defining a hardcore game as a game that has a built in ranking system but you explain the original mario bros as still having a hardcore community because they eventually set up their own ranking system for convenience. Which probably first started with boasting about times at lunch before forums or showing off on you tube videos existed. The tools don't need to be there for the community to exist. The tools only allow the community to scale beyond a group of local players.

"neither can a hardcore or competitive player" - refering to they can't go compete in ranked in sea of thieves.

Or casual. What does ranked have to do with anything?

so how can you call yourself a hardcore or competitive player if you don't play hardcore or competitive?

Easily, I like fighting and winning against other players. Therefore I'm a competitive player.

Do I care about leagues/ranks? No. Its not important to me. It doesn't need to be.

someone can also dedicate a youtube channel in hello kitty online and farming simulator doeesn't mean they are competitive games.

It can be used as a "ranking" system of sorts showing off how you defeated / tricked other players. They are achievements that you can boast about, which is what rank is for. It depends on what the youtube channel's purpose is. If your just trying to entertain people with hello kitty videos vs what you've achieved in a game.

you are a competitive player playing sea of thieves, what are you competing for actually? what is your measure of being better? are you better than me? how would you measure the "performance" of one player versus another? what indicators tell me that you are in the top 10 pvpers of sea of thieves? or top 50? i don't know...

You don't need a ranking system to be a competitive player. A competition can be reduced to just two people that what to sink each other or fight over loot. With a little bit of introspection you can gauge your abilities, if your constantly making the same mistakes or learning to adapt...

This doesn't even mean your hardcore you can be both casual and competitive. You can also be hardcore and non competitive. Look at MajorSlackAttack's youtube channel for skyrim, he isn't what I'd consider a competitive skyrim player but he has extremely detailed guides. He is completely hardcore when it comes to skyrim figuring out nearly every type of build you can think of on legendary difficulty. That takes dedication that casuals do not have.

@savagetwinky

"Does a hardcore game require mechanics for hardcore players?" - YES
Mario Bros hardcore community has a ranking of speed runners... look it up.

"neither can a hardcore or competitive player" - refering to they can't go compete in ranked in sea of thieves.
so how can you call yourself a hardcore or competitive player if you don't play hardcore or competitive?
someone can also dedicate a youtube channel in hello kitty online and farming simulator doeesn't mean they are competitive games.

you are a competitive player playing sea of thieves, what are you competing for actually? what is your measure of being better? are you better than me? how would you measure the "performance" of one player versus another? what indicators tell me that you are in the top 10 pvpers of sea of thieves? or top 50? i don't know...

@squaz05 said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

as for matched games having a single objective... yeah... the match has a start, a middle and an end... sea of thieves doesn't have any matches. only ganking other players for no reason other than "hey lets kill eachother for no reason for 3 hours straight without gaining or losing anything"

But CS only originally had 2 modes, that is 1 less than the 3 voyage types that SoT has, and that is ignoring the skull forts..

How can you make the determination that 3 voyage types makes the game "not hardcore".

world of warcraft has elements for BOTH types casuals and hard core. sea of thieves doesn't have elements for competitive gaming... and you said it yourself wow caters to the hard core and competitive players by adding HARD RAIDS and RANKED matches... sea of thieves has neither.

Right it has game mechanics that support both...

How does that make the game hardcore? Does a hardcore game require mechanics for hardcore players? How to you reconcile that with the fact that mario bros, the nes version, had a hard core player base. And with speed running still does.

so a casual player can go in ranked and compete in the ranked ladders and all and see where they stand... as a casual player i can't do that in sea of thieves as there isn't any ranked ladders or stats whatsoever.

What does this matter? Neither can a hardcore or competitive player... The best they can do is dedicate a you tube channel to show their achievements...

But hardcore completionist can start to accumulate all the unique timed exclusive cosmetics and have a visual representation of rank.

the only things you can be in sea of thieves is either a casual player or a casual player that plays a lot, there is nothing competitive about this game.

No, because I'm a competitive player, and I love meeting other competitive players out on the open seas, often fighting over nothing and the reaper flag makes finding each other easier. This logic your using is patently false, because again PLAYERS are the ones that are casual/hardcore/competitive. And it all has to do with how they approach the game and the level of dedication. You don't need all the stuff your talking about to cater to competitive/hardcore bases. The game mechanics come first and thats the appealing factor, and it doesn't have to be a direct head to head... games can be completely trimmed down ONLY catering to casual but the ship mechanics, teamwork, tactics... all open the game up for a more hardcore audience.

@binaryplayerone said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@squaz05 said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@ninestackerace said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

I'm gonna have to agree with the OP here. They're absolutely right. I played majority on console during the initial release and following improvements to SOT, but after having switched to PC and playing it for about 4 months, there definitely needs to be an option for console players to opt out of cross-platform playing.

They're at an incredible disadvantage when it comes to mouse and keyboard vs. controller. You just cant match the response time with a controller to the movements of PC controls.

Definitely needs to be an opt out option that can be enabled or disabled rather than completely rid of.

making crossplay optional is just a bandaid trying to hold together a laceration.
you are going to encounter the same problem in a few months/years when MS gets M/K support and you will be back to square 1, complaining on the forums that people on Xbox with M/K have an unfair advantage

instead of opting out of crossplay (effectively going backwards in game development) we should be trying to find solutions to have the PC-M/K be on par with the Xbox1 Controller by modifying the mechanics and/or game balancing.

There is a reason that not many games have cross-play. Especially in competitive games. And there is a reason that one of the most popular games in the world (Fortnite) will be adding input-device matchmaking soon as they aim to level out the playingfield and making it fair.

If Xbox get's full mouse & keyboard support one day then everyone will have the option to have the same benefits as on PC if we ignore the performance boost witch alone is a game changer making everything more fluid and faster.

Until a better solution is ready I encourage Rare to make cross-play optional for Xbox players. And work on a input-device matchmaking system. Either that or acknowledge that cross-play was not a good idea with this game.

not many games have crossplay because it's new, not many people have electric cars, doesn't mean it's bad.

input device matchmaking will be a better solution than optional crossplay (is it really optional if the first thing every xbox player will do is turn it off immediately after implementation and then go on to replace their PC friends with new xbox friends and never go back to crossplay?)

as for performance? My PC performs worse than your xbox... so you have an advantage there over me. should we split performance too? what about the disparities between Xbox1, Xbox1S and Xbox1X should we split those too? what about controllers? Regular/S/Elite? more splitting? cuz someone with an elite controller has an advantage over someone with a regular controller.

@savagetwinky said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@squaz05 said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@savagetwinky said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@squaz05 said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@savagetwinky said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@personalc0ffee said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@jonaldinho Because aiming is the only thing and it absolutely doesn't matter in a non competitive, non e-sport title.

SoT is a casual, kid friendly, pirate fantasy sandbox.

It is not competitive like Black Wake and Skull & Bones.

No, its competitive, its as competitive as you want to make it... the game has mechanics that allow for a skill gap and mastery. SoT Can be casual, it also can be hardcore. There is room for both which is probably a bigger problem when I think the PC community is a bit more on the PvP end compared to xbox community which is more on the casual end...

Sea of Thieves is as Casual as it gets

an Indy Casual overpriced game with no ranks, no ladders, no stats, no meaningful progression and 3 missions that are the same from level 1 to max level. (just longer)

No, You didn't mention anything that makes a game hardcore or not... ladders/stats/ranks/progression are all things that casuals can enjoy, maybe they won't be number 1, but that is just a tool for a hardcore player to utilize in the same way.

Look at competitive games like League of Legends/DOTA2 or fighter games like StreetFighter/Dragon Ball Fighter Z or card games like Hearthstone/MTG arena

they split ranked and casual and as you may have noticed
casual mode doesn't have ranks, doesn't have stats, doesn't have a ladder and the progression is meaningless (If any)

if you go into the competitive mode you will get ranks/ladders/win-loss stats and progression is tied to rewards not only limited to cosmetics.

So who's to say casuals never go into ranked mode. Again you misinterpreting some labels that are just as easily labled ranked/unranked or ranked/practice modes.

Don't conflate in game mechanics that try catering to different audiences as the definition as to whether or not there is or isn't a hardcore/competitive player base.

sea of thieves doesn't have anything that the ranked competitive modes in the other game have and is very similar to the casual modes in those games.

Irrelevant.

on another aspect of the casual vs competitive, most of the time a competitive game will consist of matches with a start a middle and an end and a winner is decided. There usually is an endgame goal to attain/win

No, this is a more straight forward type of competition. That doesn't mean people can't be competitive in games that aren't a head 2 head. Competition can come in many forms... like fighting over loot.

in matchmaking games is to win matches
in MMOs its to beat bosses.
in MMO pvp it usually is a vs match within a controlled environment or territory/ressource control when it comes to open world pvp.

sea of thieves has NOTHING to call itself competitive hardcore. I mean F*S, it has 3 missions that you repeat over and over.

This is stupid. Match based games can literally have a single objective... kill each other. Look at quake, its a highly competitive and generally the focus is on TDM, or counter strike which basically had 2 game modes. This is the most nonsensical reasoning to whether or not your game has a hardcore/competitive fanbase. Mario bros 1 to mario 64 have a hardcore fanbase, that's competitive, and use external tools to keep track of speed run times.

A casual player can play in ranked matches and see if he does better/worse using those ranks. He's not going to have the level of dedication necessary to raise in the ranks to reach the top 1 percentile. WoW caters heavily to casual gamers, but still has a place at the edge for the hardcore player base with harder raid difficulties that take more coordination, and ranked PvP matches...

Games themselves are not casual vs hardcore. The only thing that matters is whether or not your game has attracted dedicted players that are willing to play your game to find every tactic and break the mechanics in every way. Those are hardcore players. They are competitive.

I would like to go in the ranked mode in sea of thieves... oops... there isn't any.... so its completely relevant that sea of thieves not having any competitive modes makes it as casual as it gets.

as for matched games having a single objective... yeah... the match has a start, a middle and an end... sea of thieves doesn't have any matches. only ganking other players for no reason other than "hey lets kill eachother for no reason for 3 hours straight without gaining or losing anything"

world of warcraft has elements for BOTH types casuals and hard core. sea of thieves doesn't have elements for competitive gaming... and you said it yourself wow caters to the hard core and competitive players by adding HARD RAIDS and RANKED matches... sea of thieves has neither.

so a casual player can go in ranked and compete in the ranked ladders and all and see where they stand... as a casual player i can't do that in sea of thieves as there isn't any ranked ladders or stats whatsoever.

the only things you can be in sea of thieves is either a casual player or a casual player that plays a lot, there is nothing competitive about this game.

I like cross play...I play on PC... I have met really cool Xbox gamers and if cross play did not exist I would have never met them. I have 2 irl friends who play SoT on Xbox, and we can sail the seas together. We all bought Microsoft Game Pass to play this game together (Xbox & PC). Microsoft’s marketing of this game to sell game pass worked. We would never have bought game pass if it was not for Sea of Thieves and Cross Play!

@squaz05 said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@ninestackerace said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

I'm gonna have to agree with the OP here. They're absolutely right. I played majority on console during the initial release and following improvements to SOT, but after having switched to PC and playing it for about 4 months, there definitely needs to be an option for console players to opt out of cross-platform playing.

They're at an incredible disadvantage when it comes to mouse and keyboard vs. controller. You just cant match the response time with a controller to the movements of PC controls.

Definitely needs to be an opt out option that can be enabled or disabled rather than completely rid of.

making crossplay optional is just a bandaid trying to hold together a laceration.
you are going to encounter the same problem in a few months/years when MS gets M/K support and you will be back to square 1, complaining on the forums that people on Xbox with M/K have an unfair advantage

instead of opting out of crossplay (effectively going backwards in game development) we should be trying to find solutions to have the PC-M/K be on par with the Xbox1 Controller by modifying the mechanics and/or game balancing.

There is a reason that not many games have cross-play. Especially in competitive games. And there is a reason that one of the most popular games in the world (Fortnite) will be adding input-device matchmaking soon as they aim to level out the playingfield and making it fair.

If Xbox get's full mouse & keyboard support one day then everyone will have the option to have the same benefits as on PC if we ignore the performance boost witch alone is a game changer making everything more fluid and faster.

Until a better solution is ready I encourage Rare to make cross-play optional for Xbox players. And work on a input-device matchmaking system. Either that or acknowledge that cross-play was not a good idea with this game.

@squaz05 said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@savagetwinky said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@squaz05 said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@savagetwinky said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@personalc0ffee said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@jonaldinho Because aiming is the only thing and it absolutely doesn't matter in a non competitive, non e-sport title.

SoT is a casual, kid friendly, pirate fantasy sandbox.

It is not competitive like Black Wake and Skull & Bones.

No, its competitive, its as competitive as you want to make it... the game has mechanics that allow for a skill gap and mastery. SoT Can be casual, it also can be hardcore. There is room for both which is probably a bigger problem when I think the PC community is a bit more on the PvP end compared to xbox community which is more on the casual end...

Sea of Thieves is as Casual as it gets

an Indy Casual overpriced game with no ranks, no ladders, no stats, no meaningful progression and 3 missions that are the same from level 1 to max level. (just longer)

No, You didn't mention anything that makes a game hardcore or not... ladders/stats/ranks/progression are all things that casuals can enjoy, maybe they won't be number 1, but that is just a tool for a hardcore player to utilize in the same way.

Look at competitive games like League of Legends/DOTA2 or fighter games like StreetFighter/Dragon Ball Fighter Z or card games like Hearthstone/MTG arena

they split ranked and casual and as you may have noticed
casual mode doesn't have ranks, doesn't have stats, doesn't have a ladder and the progression is meaningless (If any)

if you go into the competitive mode you will get ranks/ladders/win-loss stats and progression is tied to rewards not only limited to cosmetics.

So who's to say casuals never go into ranked mode. Again you misinterpreting some labels that are just as easily labled ranked/unranked or ranked/practice modes.

Don't conflate in game mechanics that try catering to different audiences as the definition as to whether or not there is or isn't a hardcore/competitive player base.

sea of thieves doesn't have anything that the ranked competitive modes in the other game have and is very similar to the casual modes in those games.

Irrelevant.

on another aspect of the casual vs competitive, most of the time a competitive game will consist of matches with a start a middle and an end and a winner is decided. There usually is an endgame goal to attain/win

No, this is a more straight forward type of competition. That doesn't mean people can't be competitive in games that aren't a head 2 head. Competition can come in many forms... like fighting over loot.

in matchmaking games is to win matches
in MMOs its to beat bosses.
in MMO pvp it usually is a vs match within a controlled environment or territory/ressource control when it comes to open world pvp.

sea of thieves has NOTHING to call itself competitive hardcore. I mean F*S, it has 3 missions that you repeat over and over.

This is stupid. Match based games can literally have a single objective... kill each other. Look at quake, its a highly competitive and generally the focus is on TDM, or counter strike which basically had 2 game modes. This is the most nonsensical reasoning to whether or not your game has a hardcore/competitive fanbase. Mario bros 1 to mario 64 have a hardcore fanbase, that's competitive, and use external tools to keep track of speed run times.

A casual player can play in ranked matches and see if he does better/worse using those ranks. He's not going to have the level of dedication necessary to raise in the ranks to reach the top 1 percentile. WoW caters heavily to casual gamers, but still has a place at the edge for the hardcore player base with harder raid difficulties that take more coordination, and ranked PvP matches...

Games themselves are not casual vs hardcore. The only thing that matters is whether or not your game has attracted dedicted players that are willing to play your game to find every tactic and break the mechanics in every way. Those are hardcore players. They are competitive.

@personalc0ffee said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@savagetwinky I haven't misunderstood the shared world at all.

It is all of us, in the same world, playing together with all our different play styles, whether one wants it or not.

No splits, no separations.

This is already incorrect from a technical standpoint. So you haven't understood the difference from a shared world from a game-play perspective vs shared experience.

@ninestackerace said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

I'm gonna have to agree with the OP here. They're absolutely right. I played majority on console during the initial release and following improvements to SOT, but after having switched to PC and playing it for about 4 months, there definitely needs to be an option for console players to opt out of cross-platform playing.

They're at an incredible disadvantage when it comes to mouse and keyboard vs. controller. You just cant match the response time with a controller to the movements of PC controls.

Definitely needs to be an opt out option that can be enabled or disabled rather than completely rid of.

making crossplay optional is just a bandaid trying to hold together a laceration.
you are going to encounter the same problem in a few months/years when MS gets M/K support and you will be back to square 1, complaining on the forums that people on Xbox with M/K have an unfair advantage

instead of opting out of crossplay (effectively going backwards in game development) we should be trying to find solutions to have the PC-M/K be on par with the Xbox1 Controller by modifying the mechanics and/or game balancing.

I'm gonna have to agree with the OP here. They're absolutely right. I played majority on console during the initial release and following improvements to SOT, but after having switched to PC and playing it for about 4 months, there definitely needs to be an option for console players to opt out of cross-platform playing.

They're at an incredible disadvantage when it comes to mouse and keyboard vs. controller. You just cant match the response time with a controller to the movements of PC controls.

Definitely needs to be an opt out option that can be enabled or disabled rather than completely rid of.

@savagetwinky said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@squaz05 said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@savagetwinky said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@personalc0ffee said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@jonaldinho Because aiming is the only thing and it absolutely doesn't matter in a non competitive, non e-sport title.

SoT is a casual, kid friendly, pirate fantasy sandbox.

It is not competitive like Black Wake and Skull & Bones.

No, its competitive, its as competitive as you want to make it... the game has mechanics that allow for a skill gap and mastery. SoT Can be casual, it also can be hardcore. There is room for both which is probably a bigger problem when I think the PC community is a bit more on the PvP end compared to xbox community which is more on the casual end...

Sea of Thieves is as Casual as it gets

an Indy Casual overpriced game with no ranks, no ladders, no stats, no meaningful progression and 3 missions that are the same from level 1 to max level. (just longer)

No, You didn't mention anything that makes a game hardcore or not... ladders/stats/ranks/progression are all things that casuals can enjoy, maybe they won't be number 1, but that is just a tool for a hardcore player to utilize in the same way.

Look at competitive games like League of Legends/DOTA2 or fighter games like StreetFighter/Dragon Ball Fighter Z or card games like Hearthstone/MTG arena

they split ranked and casual and as you may have noticed
casual mode doesn't have ranks, doesn't have stats, doesn't have a ladder and the progression is meaningless (If any)

if you go into the competitive mode you will get ranks/ladders/win-loss stats and progression is tied to rewards not only limited to cosmetics.

sea of thieves doesn't have anything that the ranked competitive modes in the other game have and is very similar to the casual modes in those games.

on another aspect of the casual vs competitive, most of the time a competitive game will consist of matches with a start a middle and an end and a winner is decided. There usually is an endgame goal to attain/win

in matchmaking games is to win matches
in MMOs its to beat bosses.
in MMO pvp it usually is a vs match within a controlled environment or territory/ressource control when it comes to open world pvp.

sea of thieves has NOTHING to call itself competitive hardcore. I mean F*S, it has 3 missions that you repeat over and over.

I don’t know guys...
Been xbox all my life, always will. Even since they doubled controller sensitivity, I’ve always liked a lower sensitivity (something about having more control, it’s the mentality). It’s just that splitting the already low player base even further doesn’t sit well with me. If you guys always say that pc is superior, sell your Xbox and any unused games. Come back in a couple weeks/months as the all new and improved Sea of Thieves god(s).

@personalc0ffee said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@scraping-static said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@personalc0ffee said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

I never said no one had advantage.

I said it doesn't matter in this game due to the type of game it is.

No optional crossplay, ever.

And in response to you. During my time lurking the forum... haven’t you been a strong advocate for this “level playing field” that Rare said they’d create? Or maybe I read wrong and you always said you don’t mind unlevel playing because of the type of game this is.

I advocate for more level playing field, yes. But I also advocate for the shared world idea.

Steps are being taken, by Rare without sacrificing both those ideals.

You're never going to get a TRUE level playing field, ever in anything you do.

I think you've misunderstood the shared world. We don't all play together, and the communities are separated but still center around the same core experience. There is a shared play space, and a shared experience. Splitting the servers with something like PvE vs PvP will break that shared experience because it will cause players to experience the game in fundamentally different ways, especially with player interaction.

If they were to add a... match making based on control input... players would still have the same shared experiences but the shared play space will be organized by not only region and other matching criteria currently apart of the live service... but also control input to help make that shared experience a level playing field.

@squaz05 said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@savagetwinky said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@personalc0ffee said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@jonaldinho Because aiming is the only thing and it absolutely doesn't matter in a non competitive, non e-sport title.

SoT is a casual, kid friendly, pirate fantasy sandbox.

It is not competitive like Black Wake and Skull & Bones.

No, its competitive, its as competitive as you want to make it... the game has mechanics that allow for a skill gap and mastery. SoT Can be casual, it also can be hardcore. There is room for both which is probably a bigger problem when I think the PC community is a bit more on the PvP end compared to xbox community which is more on the casual end...

Sea of Thieves is as Casual as it gets

an Indy Casual overpriced game with no ranks, no ladders, no stats, no meaningful progression and 3 missions that are the same from level 1 to max level. (just longer)

No, You didn't mention anything that makes a game hardcore or not... ladders/stats/ranks/progression are all things that casuals can enjoy, maybe they won't be number 1, but that is just a tool for a hardcore player to utilize in the same way.

@starship42 said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@savagetwinky hand movement does matter for the mouse/keyboard operator, depending whether one is left or right handed. Mice are moved across a flat surface. Let's say you had a keyboard for your left hand, and a joystick for your right. You would likely have a similar problem as with the controller. Only with a joystick you could use the entire hand, whereas with the controller one is restricted to right thumb.

but you can't compare hand movement of 1 input to one that doesnt' need it... its not comparable because your presumption is hand movement = better based on what? So what? I have to move my hand to turn right vs my thumb?

The fact we must use our left and right hand independently, with two separate devices, gives us the freedom to move our right hand with a mouse, anywhere on a flat 2D plane. The entire hand is at play, which gives greater control over the mouse, whereas only the right thumb is used to control a small joystick on the controller.

An unnecessary freedom with a controller. And I don't know why you think the stability matters all that much more either, yah maybe your hands aren't stable relative your seated position, but your hands are holding the controller... so you hands relative to the buttons are perfectly stable for operation.

We can't discount the role a solid flat surface plays in providing stability either.

I just did, your comparison is kind of ridiculous.

A controller is held by both hands, sometimes in player laps, or on legs, to provide some needed stability as both hands are struggling to use the buttons on a controller simutaneously, causing it to move, to tug of war, back and forth as pressure points are applied. There is no stability, or at least, very little by comparison to a desk or table, for the mouse, and full hand control while shifting it along the hard, flat surface. I'm sure a blind test could be done on different PC and console players to see if there are differences in performance. Have them play same game for an hour, then switch them around and see how each plays differently. The agility and dexterity of the players hands and in the case of the mouse, the arm, could be measured, and contrasted against each's performance using both devices, on the same game, at different times.

This is absolute rubbish. You don't "tug of war" a controller in any way, you don't need to move your hands beyond finding a comfortable position.

I've used both sets of devices. I was a PC player for many years, then changed to playing console games and have played them for many years also. Overall, I know there are distinct advantages to playing PC over console.

Based on your description, I'm not sure you know how to use a controller correctly.

But it would be hard to prove without conducting a controlled experiment with a large test group who didn't know you were testing those devices as used by players of equal skill level on the same games.

It also depends on the game. Where the PC has absolute benefits with more keys and a 1:1 movement with the mouse as far as your arm can reach. This matters for more with precision at different ranges while still having agility to quickly look around. This is something that is easily measurable and comparable. A joystick can only go from 1-100 essentially and the range of motion is very small. So its hard to make the character move quickly while mainting aiming at range because 1-100 can translate to 0-100 or 0-1000 in speed. Someone's thumb can't be that precise the wider the range, and the limitation to keep the precision creates an inherent limitation on speed. So a mouse can keep precision at range + speed in close by just wiping your hand around when you need to move faster.

Unfortunately it seems most people are having problems with CQC, in a game where the hit boxes are generous. The controller wouldn't make that much of a difference so long as someone can turn fast enough. But from my POV the players that die so easily just aren't good, they have poor awareness of their surroundings and also are bad at staying moving, and have really poor reaction times... and tactics... like the control method didn't make a difference when 3 people chased me down and I killed all 3 of them by positioning myself for a sword lunge and they fell for it every time.

@savagetwinky said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@personalc0ffee said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

@jonaldinho Because aiming is the only thing and it absolutely doesn't matter in a non competitive, non e-sport title.

SoT is a casual, kid friendly, pirate fantasy sandbox.

It is not competitive like Black Wake and Skull & Bones.

No, its competitive, its as competitive as you want to make it... the game has mechanics that allow for a skill gap and mastery. SoT Can be casual, it also can be hardcore. There is room for both which is probably a bigger problem when I think the PC community is a bit more on the PvP end compared to xbox community which is more on the casual end...

Sea of Thieves is as Casual as it gets

an Indy Casual overpriced game with no ranks, no ladders, no stats, no meaningful progression and 3 missions that are the same from level 1 to max level. (just longer)

@personalc0ffee said in Xbox players, I'm sorry...:

I never said no one had advantage.

I said it doesn't matter in this game due to the type of game it is.

No optional crossplay, ever.

And in response to you. During my time lurking the forum... haven’t you been a strong advocate for this “level playing field” that Rare said they’d create? Or maybe I read wrong and you always said you don’t mind unlevel playing because of the type of game this is.