Skull fort server hopping is ruining the game

@slowmonutkick unless the last player leave the server =P

@urihamrayne said in Skull fort server hopping is ruining the game:

@sweltering-nick " Rare said 'don't server skip'"

Where?

In one of the first updates regarding the login servers being drowned because of too many login requests.

@urihamrayne said in Skull fort server hopping is ruining the game:

@sweltering-nick so nothing to do with server hopping to clear skulls, just a warning because they didn't want players to have trouble entering the game during peak hours? You need a quote that says that server hopping is forbidden in other for any sort of punishment to be earned. But it is not forbidden, any player is free to leave any number of sessions they want, you cannot force players to be in the same session for any number of time, this is a fact.

Yes, however if this server skipping starts trending more than it does currently, we are going to relive the launch issues... Hence why that extends to server skipping.

"You need a quote that says that server hopping is forbidden in other for any sort of punishment to be earned."

Actually, no i don't need to, as abusing functions in unintended ways is... as i just said, considered abuse and/or cheating, therefore this behavior qualifies for punishment... For instance a 3 hour ban if you relog too much.

I mean, i can quote the pirate code if you want, but... It would be redundant at this point, because everyone knows cheating isn't allowed. :P

"But it is not forbidden, any player is free to leave any number of sessions they want, you cannot force players to be in the same session for any number of time, this is a fact."

No, you cant force players to play the game for as long as you want, and that's not even what i'm suggesting here... What i'm suggesting is to discourage server hopping, by making it so it stops being the most efficient way to progress in the game...

To stop it being the best way to progress in the game, you just need to make it consume way more time than it's worth... If they have to wait for 3 hours in between 2 server hopping attempts, then server hopping will simply stop being worth it... Nothing more nothing less. xD

@urihamrayne "You people never think beyond the basic, what if the person doing relogs is trying to find a party of people with mics?"

Rare is already working on implementing a function for that, so you can que up with people who have a mic plugged in.

"What if that person got a connection issue and is trying to return to his session several times?"

Quite frankly, the 3 hour "ban" would encourage you to fix your internet issue before the next attempt... I mean it's not like the 3 hour timeout period is disturbing your gameplay, the internet issues are already your main problem. :P

"Just because fort hopping is a thing doesn't mean you need to jump a hoop to break the rest of the game"

True, which is why it's important you keep pressing X to doubt me. :D
Always poke at the flaws in suggestions, keep up the good work there buddy, wouldn't have it any other way! :3

"you don't need to suggest BANS that is so ridiculous."

Actually it's not, Bans are a thing, because they work, and are justified, if you break the code of conduct, or the terms of service, or the pirates code, etc, you could potentially get banned for the trouble you caused, sometimes even permanently if the case in question is severe enough.

A 3 hour timeout is hardly a serious issue, and i'm not suggesting it get worse, so you wont have to deal with progressively longer timeouts... Like for instance, i'f you've played on that same server for... say 1,5 hours or 2 hours, the timeout counter resets? Allowing you to change servers several times a day, as long as you don't server hop excessively within a 2 hour period. :3

"Why is it always like this with you people?"

What people? People who're dedicated to discouraging abuse of features not intended to give you an advantage in progression?

You'd rather allow them to abuse this feature, even if it means other players on these servers get a steady 100 ping or higher because of server hoppers? It's already breaking the game in more than just one way... It's messing up the progression for everyone, Rare had to reduce the payout of chests and the amount of treasure from skeleton forts because of server hoppers...

Just to balance it out, which sort of messed up the entire system for those of us who actually play by the rules.

I'd rather have a timeout function, than messing up the progression system for everyone just because server hopping happened to be a superior progression method that Rare didn't predict.

My suggestion removes the destruction of treasure payout and treasure amount in skelly forts and improves overall server ping by preventing excessive login requests... So it's less destructive than keeping the server hopping around.

It may seem like i never think beyond the basic, but you'd be surprised the amount of thought i put into my ideas, mate... Run a few simulations in your head before you immediately jump on the "oh no this is a bad idea" bandwagon.

Unless you jumped on that bandwagon immediately because you are a server hopper yourself, of course... Then my idea would ruin everything for you wouldn't it? I smell bias. :P

"g**o you got cornered for trying to pretend rare frowned upon people server hopping for forts and now you're backpedalling so hard you forgot that OP wanted people to be locked in sessions."

I made my own, separate suggestion... Are you paying attention? ._.

@kaetten yes, one of the issues would be that someone could literally hog an entire server for themselves by not attacking the skull fort, this would be very unlikely as one of the 8 or so ships in the world would go for it eventually, however, to prevent this, I would put a timeout on how long a skull fort will stay active if no one completes a wave. lets say, if in an hour no one completes a wave then the skull fort should just disappear.

@urihamrayne "in a simple paragraph I dismantle your delusions so hard you need a wall of text to confirm to yourself you are still wrong."

... What? xD

"The first reply of this thread is mine, if you read it you will understand that I am not against fort hopping and don't support it either"

That's all fine and dandy, but "fort hopping" is actually against the rules... So...

"I have only criticized being locked to the instance arbitrarily, which won't happen ever."

The game wasn't designed for you to hop between servers nonstop, mate, hence why the game is having so many issues regarding it... So seeing as server hopping is not a core idea of the game, it is very much subject to change... Regardless of how you personally feel about it.

"Your suggestions are bad because you people are selfish, thinking only of your own selves, your own losses, your own defeats, whenever confronted for your scummy desires you shulk in and move the goalpost"

Pretty sure you're breaking forum rules here, bro... You need to calm down... What do you base your claim on regarding me (or the other guy) being selfish? What selfish motives do we have, according to you?

"I only talk about quality unintrusive changes because as a simple gamer, I don't grasp networking issues and game development, I keep it simple."

In other words, "you never think beyond the basic", is that what you're saying? Isn't that what you accused me of in an earlier comment? :o

"If you want to be wrong, I will allow it, don't imply I am as well, because I'll never be."

Impressive, and also just an empty boast... Whatever floats your boat, man. :o

@canadianmuscle3 "I've never seen anything from Rare that says we are not allowed to server hop."

First of all, pirate code says cheaters will be punished, well abusing game mechanics in unintended ways to progress faster in the game is seen as cheating, secondly, one of the first developer updates after launch said, and i'm paraphrasing: "once you get into a server, don't leave, stay, this is to prevent drowning the servers with login requests which makes the situation worse." proving server hopping for skelly forts is absolutely not something Rare intended for the game.

So, yeah, it's against the rules.

@shuoink said in Skull fort server hopping is ruining the game:

Skull forts are worthless now, the 2-3 hour fight it takes for 10k loot isn't worth anyone's time. Frustrating to have one pop up, go over, no ships in sight, then when the captain spawns three galleons show up out of nowhere that had obviously just server hopped. Wont be bothering with them anymore as i can make more grinding voyages in an hour than i can fighting off endless ships for 3.
They have lost their appeal to me, which sucks because its some of the only content in the game currently. I get why people do it, because there is nothing else to do... this is just my opinion. Incoming "Get gud" and "bye" posts, whatever. this is my opinion i am sharing with the devs.
Something needs to be done.
Make it so if you leave and then rejoin within 10 mins or something that it just puts you back on the same server, shouldn't be too hard. would solve the problem entirely, and make people play the game as intended instead of hopping from game to game.
Just my two cents.
I am fine with PVP. I think RARE underestimated human nature a bit when coming up with some of the concepts of this game. Hopefully the upcoming content will alleviate some of the hopping in some way and give us other things to do in general than spend 2-3 hours fighting non stop ships for a mere 10-15 k.
Good for you if you like 3 hour pvp battles, its a pvp game, I get it. Believe it or not though, some of us would rather move on so we have something to show for our time after 3 hours.

correction. People complaining is ruining this game.

@urihamrayne said in Skull fort server hopping is ruining the game:

@sweltering-nick Ok fine I'll bite.

You see there will always be people looking for exploits, but this game really tempts you with them, you know why? Because a level 40 GH mission can give you less gold than the price it cost to buy, because after level 30 the grind becomes unbearable, because the game has very poor scaling into the late game, its such a severe difficulty spike players will eventually push back and learn things about the game systems and push it to the limit, and it will soil the enjoyement of some, for me I have been very tired coming out of 12 hour sessions to level up only 4 times. Game is stretching itself out for so long I don't even care once I become pirate legend, I'll just be glad its over, then I'll wait for the next updates, because it wasn't fun. This is the quote I'm referencing "...you have these severe difficulty spikes that feel overlooked by the developers, and what happens is that players start pushing back, you notice the cracks in the game's design, you abuse the AI, you learn how to stop enemies from spawning and when you push the game to it's limit sometimes it cracks and your enjoyement is ruined" - videogamedunkey.

This was completely off topic, but do consider it, the players will choose exploits over playing regularly whenever it ceases to be apealing. Not a question of server hoppers being completely at fault here, its both ways the players and the dev team.

Sure, but the game not being personally satisfying for you does not justify you breaking the rules. You are right, but it's not a valid argument for breaking the rules... There needs to be a punishment... for breaking... the rules. :P

@canadianmuscle3 I completely agree this is not a form of cheating based on their systems. But Rare needs to add a lot more content to bring PVP aspect together more and fix the leveling system in general.

@canadianmuscle3 "I disagree with that."

Did you even read what i said? You can disagree with it all you want, man, it's not going to change anything. xD

"It had nothing to do with fort searching in general"

True, but that isn't what i said, now is it? Please read.

What i said is that it proves that swapping servers because it's the superior progression method, is not what Rare intended... By server hopping to progress faster, you are cheating by abusing game mechanics in an unintentional way.

Same as using the banana barrel clipping bug to travel across the map almost instantly so you can catch up to a fight and contest a skeleton fort, FOR EXAMPLE... The skeleton fort isn't even the point, here, jeez... It's the abuse of bugs and game mechanics in an unintentional way, that my friend, is against the rules.

"Now the servers are much more stable and this dose not stand any more all servers where patched and fixed long ago."

When the servers are almost empty during nighttime in my region, i can have 60-80 ping...

during daytime, its an average of 100, regularly spiking up to 300 for short durations, it's the same for all of my friends with BETTER PC's and internet than me, so... More stable than at launch? Oh yeah absolutely, but stable? Nope. :P

"but people will find they best to grind levels any way they can that is completely in the way Rare has designed the game."

Incorrect, Rare does not want you to swap servers constantly, just to progress faster... Swapping servers is not gamePLAY, it's function of the game menu that happens outside of player control, further emphasizing how unintentional it was, and Rare wants players to play the game, not the menu... Hence the lack of actual server lists and menu UI etc... Don't believe me? Ask Rare yourself, don't take my word for it.

"This is not a form of cheating its using the mechanics provided."

You can justify it all you want, it will still be abuse, not intended use... Server swapping is not part of this games gameplay, and nothing you say is going to change that fact.

"Rare when talking about cheating is talking about using hacks and game enhancers."

Then rare would've said hacks, not cheating... Cheating doesn't always come in the form of hacks, fyi... Sorry to burst your bubble.

"That is what their systems look constantly for if you look and read about how their cheating system works."

Hackers are a part of cheaters, so sure, it is... However, cheaters don't always use hacks... Hence why Rare tells people to avoid using bugs to their advantage, for instance.

However some bugs occasionally inspire devs to expand on the games function... In the case of the sword controls, rare have stated their current functions are unintentional, but, they are monitoring whether or not it's necessary to fix them, seeing as it gave the combat some much needed depth... They may actually integrate those bugs as actual game mechanics into the game at some point if they end up liking it.

However, on the subject of server hopping, that goes against Rares idea for the game, and they don't approve... They want people to play the game, not the system.

"Based on what you're saying you cant even leave to find a new crew when you have issues or being locked in the brig. That would constitute server hoping as well so according to your theory that would be cheating as well."

According to the system i suggested, the system would recognize it as an attempt at cheating, yes... You have a point there. And any fix i could suggest could be heavily abused by actual server hoppers anyway, so... Guess my suggestion is a bust. : /

Doesn't change the fact that server hopping (it's own term for cheating via changing servers to progress faster in the game) is against the rules, though... Because it counts as abuse of game mechanics in an unintentional way.

It still needs to be dealt with, but i guess my suggestion, as i said, wont work.

Server hopping isn't against the rules, don't be ridiculous. The dev recommended that we not do it so as to not stress the servers too much. Elevating that kind of thing to the level of "rule" is absurd. The game is made to give you the ability to relog and requeue on purpose. There are any number of valid reasons for wanting to hop to a different server, and hopping for raids is only one of them, and not even the most common one. Locking anybody into or out of a server is a bad idea.

@thrasymachus77 "Server hopping isn't against the rules, don't be ridiculous."

I've explained several times, in great detail, why it's against the rules.

Just denying that's it's against the rules, is sadly not a valid argument.

"Elevating that kind of thing to the level of "rule" is absurd."

Don't strawman my argument... Read, analyze, then reply... Don't just read, then reply. :P

i don't know about the "rules", regarding server hopping and afk'ing, but if we don't sort this out ourselves as a community this game will drop like a lead zeppelin. i hadn't been able to play for a week, so i was anxious to log some extended sailing the past 2 nights. all my pirating friends, including the dozen or so i added thru the game, have been playing other titles of late. i have had good luck with random galleon crews before, but the past 2 sessions were nothing but frustration due to multiple afk'ers and even more frequent server hopping. too many more nights like this and i'll have no choice but to move on to something else. before you say "bye" know that i don't want to go. i want to have this game as a staple go to for years. please don't let me down rare.
btw afk'ers and server hoppers what are you really getting in exchange for potentially ruining the game? i kinda get the hoppers, who only enjoy the thrill of the fort. hopefully new content will slow this down in the coming months. afk'ers i just don't get. you ruin the experience of others so you can gain what? fake gold that you can exchange for fake decorations. a pirate legend title that you will know is fake too. believe me, you are the only single person on the planet who will care when you achieve legend status, and you will know in your heart it is a sham.

@urihamrayne "Stop doubling down on this"

I'm not doubling down... Just sometimes i wish people would just read before reacting. :P

"how many more people need to tell you that it is not against the rules"

The majority don't know the entire law of their country, what makes you think they care enough about rules and laws to know what is or is not allowed? Did you know that most actual hackers in online games like SoT think they paid for the right to hack in the game? Even though it goes directly against several sets of rules, rules of conduct, rules of service, pirates code, bla de bla de bla.

That's why we have books and lists containing these laws, so that when in doubt, we can consult them, and learn. :P

As i said, which you probably didn't get... My suggestion turned out to be bad... K, whocares, lol.

But there's still a problem to be addressed, server hopping is against the rules, contrary to popular belief... Now pay attention... I'm talking about Server HOPPING... not the simple act of changing servers... Note the difference between ABUSING and using.

"if you keep bending words of Rare's employees to fit your own perception of what should be a rule, it just goes to show how intelectually dishonest you are."

Bending what words? Make a list please.

"btw don't use expressions like stawmen if you don't know what they mean."

Do you know what it means? xD

Definition of a strawman argument: "A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man."".

Google is never far away on the internet, mate. :)