Doublegun (doubleshot)

Equiping two guns should be removed altogether. Should be guns in one slot, everything else in the other like sword, blow dart, harpoon etc.

@skelcurseirl пишет в Doublegun:

this is available to everyone.

Cheat programs are also available to everyone, macros are available to everyone, in principle, unfair play is available to everyone. But using it is one thing, and allowing developers to use skipping animation with the help of some game holes in the game engine is another.

@sitjk13

Eh. Not a fan but it *has *been nerfed. Not enough for some, too much for DG fans.

I would prefer a 3 weapon loadout with a forced sword.

Or maybe a forced, unskippable reload animation after every shot.

3 weapons would allow DG kids to set up a single, higher risk DG play because they have to cycle a 3rd weapon before they can finish reloading the DG play.

The forced animation isn't working lol.

@rambobrad

Yep.

TTK should be enforced somehow.

@rambobrad

Thanks for the tip. Does that include an animation cancel? How does it fare against bosses? Knives are pretty OP against Ashy Lords.

Double gun has been nerfed for ages now. [Mod edit]
Really the only exception is cheaters using certain methods to bypass the current time to swap. That isn't a doublegun issue, that is a cheating issue...

@captain-knyt said in Doublegun:

Let’s lower the skill ceiling from our skill ceiling dependent game again guys

The skill ceiling was never lowered, they only removed an exploit to combat cheaters (abusing exploits to gain an upper hand over another player is cheating, so everybody who used the animation canceling where literaly cheating)

@dermasterbob said in Doublegun:

@super87ghost sagte in Doublegun:

@captain-knyt said in Doublegun:

Let’s lower the skill ceiling from our skill ceiling dependent game again guys

The skill ceiling was never lowered, they only removed an exploit to combat cheaters (abusing exploits to gain an upper hand over another player is cheating, so everybody who used the animation canceling where literaly cheating)

On online games, cheating subverts the rules or mechanics of the games to gain an unfair advantage over other players, generally with the use of third-party software.

Using exploits is literally not cheating.
People need to understand that.

An exploit is something that is not an intended mechanic, so (ab)using exploits is subverting an mechanic... So yeah, it is cheating.

Also if i quoto wikipedia, it is cheating:
"In video games, cheating can take the form of secret access codes in single-player games (such as the Konami code[14]) which unlock a bonus for the player when entered, hacks and exploits which give players an unfair advantage in online multiplayer games and single-player modes, or unfair collusion between players in online games (such as a player who spectates a match, removing limitations such as "fog of war", and reports on enemy positions to game partners)."

And on the page of cheating in videogames in particually:
"Cheating in video games involves a video game player using various methods to create an advantage beyond normal gameplay, usually in order to make the game easier. Cheats may be activated from within the game itself (a cheat code implemented by the original game developers), or created by third-party software (a game trainer or debugger) or hardware (a cheat cartridge). They can also be realized by exploiting software bugs."

So yes: the animation cancelling was 100% cheating.

@dermasterbob said in Doublegun:

@super87ghost sagte in Doublegun:

@captain-knyt said in Doublegun:

Let’s lower the skill ceiling from our skill ceiling dependent game again guys

The skill ceiling was never lowered, they only removed an exploit to combat cheaters (abusing exploits to gain an upper hand over another player is cheating, so everybody who used the animation canceling where literaly cheating)

On online games, cheating subverts the rules or mechanics of the games to gain an unfair advantage over other players, generally with the use of third-party software.

Using exploits is literally not cheating.
People need to understand that.

Using exploits is literally cheating. People need to understand that.
Just because an exploit is in the game (Which it would have to be to be an exploit) does not mean it's allowed or not cheating.

If I played DBD, and found an exploit that allowed me to instantly complete generators after walking in one specific corner for 5 seconds before crouch-walking in a circle; I'd be cheating to use it.

Or, to use a real example:
In Left 4 Dead 2, there was a large door the Tank monster could smash through. It could also be opened from the far side, to avoid massive backtracking.
Players found that, if they all meeleed the door for a few minutes; it would break, and they would skip 50% of the map. This was HUGE in the VS mode.
Guess what? It was an exploid, because the devs did not intend it to happen. And guess what else? It was cheating to do it.

cheat
/CHēt/
verb
gerund or present participle: cheating

1.
act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination.

With that definition; Exploits are cheating.

@captain-knyt пишет в Doublegun:

Let’s lower the skill ceiling from our skill ceiling dependent game again guys

Why do you call using an exploit a skill?

@dermasterbob пишет в Doublegun:

Even if duble gunning was removed you would still be killed as easily, just not with two guns.
Skilled players will get you either way.

I don't mind it, I've already earned the title of Legendary Ill-fated in this game xD

I just don't like it when someone uses an exploit, for me it's not sportsmanlike behavior and I don't agree to die under such rules

@rambobrad пишет в Doublegun:

@sitjk13 Choosing 2 guns from the weapon box isn't an exploit

The choice of two guns is not, but skipping animation through some holes in the code to gain an advantage is. I'm not blind, I understand when a player simply uses two weapons, albeit effectively, and when he literally makes two shots in a few milliseconds

@rambobrad пишет в Doublegun:

@sitjk13 You said you wanted Double gunning removed? If it's actually a few milliseconds then it's a cheater. If you shoot a gun, swap then hipfire, it should be just over a second. Are you sure you are getting your timings correct?

My post in the topic header had the following subtext: remove the ability to skip animation. Because this is exactly why players using the exploit kill interest in the game. I repeat: I am not against players carrying two weapons or anything. I am against exploits.

When you just shoot, change, shoot from another, of course, it takes more than a second. But players with the help of sprint or something similar somehow cancel the animation of putting away/taking a weapon and the time between two shots happens almost instantly. I was literally killed like this several times in flight when I was flying from a cannon to board. In flight, you can imagine.

@captdirtyoar said in Doublegun:

Equiping two guns should be removed altogether. Should be guns in one slot, everything else in the other like sword, blow dart, harpoon etc.

No thank you.

@rambobrad said in Doublegun:

@sitjk13 "is there any way to remove the ability to use doublegun from the game? Players somehow miss the weapon draw animation and literally get killed in a second". You said you want double gunning removed.

Delay swapping is about .2 of a second faster than normally swapping. It's not "almost instantly".

This, the new “quickswap” now known as “delayswap” barely makes a difference.

If anyone doubts that, watch a YouTube video or try it out yourself.

I’m not advocating for or against it, but I don’t have high confidence that most people are accurately identifying when delayswap was used, nor do I think it would have made any difference if they did use it in 95% of encounters.

@captain-knyt said in Doublegun:

@super87ghost only in sot do people call animation cancelling cheating lol. In other games it's just an accepted thing that you learn as you get better. It's probably because sot doesn't have matchmaking that this phenomenon occurred

Animation cancelling is an exploit. It's exploiting animations and how they interact with each other.
It's up to the devs to decide if it's allowed or not. Rare has said 'no'. Thus; animation cancelling is exploiting, which is cheating.

'It's allowed in other games!' has 0 bearing on the discussion, because this is not other games. It is Sea of Thieves.

I'm also pretty sure that in any game that wants a healthy competitive scene, exploits are patched.
IE: If a fighting game like DBFZ or Tekken 8 had an easy infinite through animation cancelling that players could not break out of in any way, shape or form; It would be removed or altered. Or else the competitve scene would be 'Both players pick Character X, do infinite' and whoever started it first would always win.

So no, it's not always 'just accepted' in every other game.