Alliance Servers

  • Ercjnsn
    Sailor

    Hey Rare Team,

    Would you ever consider the possibility of adding alliance focused servers? A mode where ships that join automatically enter alliance for pirates looking for more cooperation and collaboration to take on the seas?

    Maybe on these seas the world events were more challenging, like ashen winds spawning multiple ashen lords, boosted chances of encountering skelly ships, megalodons, and the kraken.

    I think this could be an opportunity for players to jump in and experience various world events that may be difficult to do in the high seas given some talent gaps between players. Also just think it could be cool to sail up to a fort alongside 2 other ships and work with 6 other pirates to take down waves of skellys and multiple ashen lords.

    I think this allows for players to access the vibrant and interesting in world built, engage with fellow players and make friends, and do so without the difficulty spike more tenured and experienced crews can bring to open seas.

    (I’m asking this without understanding the technical challenges that could exist in bringing something like this to life. Just something I think could help more players access a great game)

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  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    Nerfing the alliance feature into dust and adding "fun features" that don't increase any progress, and then letting a few ships sail on the same server, would be better than what they have done. Which has been doing nothing about mass alliance server cheesing for 6 years.

    They've always tied cheesing to community and it's always been the wrong way to approach a risk/reward game.

    Letting people play together doesn't have to be full on server spiking with ridiculous bonuses that don't make any sense.

    3 boat cap on alliance, let people get them on the same server with no bonuses, then it can be some fun. For community, for pvpers, for vibers, for thrill and action. As of right now a spiked server serves no purpose on sot other than stat padding for players and Rare.

  • Veronik5682
    Castaway

    world events that may be difficult to do in the high seas given some talent gaps between players

    Outside of PvP interference, in what world is a world event ''difficult'' it's the same AI with the same attack animations.
    Outside of bosses like Greymarrow, Ashen Lord which aren't complicated one bit mechanically outside of being a damage sponge soak. You face them once, you can already remember what there attack moves are forever.
    Again the PvE is built in mind that a 7 year old picking SoT for his first game can do it.

    Communities that you are demanding already exist. Such as the Requiem Discord, feel free to bring out your wallet if you want to pay to jump ahead of Queue though.

    Further more you are asking for a heavily PvE game experience and thus destroying what SoT is meant to be= A shared world experience where you never know if another crew are bloodthirsty PvP pirates or PvE pirates that want to alliance with you.
    Most are in the middle of that all depending on their mood.

    Again if you want a closed off experience of just players with the shared interest of turning Servers into a gold farm, there's communities that exist for that.
    RARE don't endorse them mind you, but they also don't give a .... When action has never been taken against them, they just let it be.

    I think this could be an opportunity for players to jump in and experience various world events that may be difficult to do in the high seas

    Wow, just wow, you give these types of players Safer Seas and they still will find a way to push for something more.
    Give them an inch and they'll take a mile in its pure definition.

  • HiradC
    Lord
    Insider

    In a game with a risk vs reward balance, where is the risk in pure alliance servers? Once you get some experience you will realise that no pve is difficult, it's the threat of pvp alongside it that adds the variable.

  • R3vanNS
    Master
    Insider

    @wolfmanbush

    3 boat cap on alliance, let people get them on the same server with no bonuses, then it can be some fun. For community, for pvpers, for vibers, for thrill and action. As of right now a spiked server serves no purpose on sot other than stat padding for players and Rare.

    How about we don't touch HS because it's fine as it is.

    If people are so dying to play with 3+ friends and be safe from PvP, allow 1 or 2 more crews on SS and call it a day. If you're about to take away bonuses from alliances, there is no point of having such feature (alliance) in the first place.

    Hence, SS suggestion of up to 3 crews max, no alliance or alliance bonuses.

  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    @r3vanns said in Alliance Servers:

    @wolfmanbush

    3 boat cap on alliance, let people get them on the same server with no bonuses, then it can be some fun. For community, for pvpers, for vibers, for thrill and action. As of right now a spiked server serves no purpose on sot other than stat padding for players and Rare.

    How about we don't touch HS because it's fine as it is.

    If people are so dying to play with their friends and be safe from PvP, allow 1 or 2 more crews on SS and call it a day. If you're about to take away bonuses from alliances, there is no point of having such feature in the first place.

    Hence, SS suggestion of up to 3 crews max, no alliance (bonuses).

    Alliances don't need bonuses when they are throwing 15 ashen legends out there in 10 minute forts.

    They should have capped alliances years ago and/or completely gotten rid of bonuses. There are countless perks that can be created for people playing together without just making it a cheese factory.

    Cheesing = community event has been one of the worst things Rare has stuck with in this game.

    People already spike servers in this game for 2-3 boats all the time. It's extremely common. It makes far more sense to clean it up and maintain it than just let regs continue to cheese high seas at max profit.

  • R3vanNS
    Master
    Insider

    @wolfmanbush

    Alliances don't need bonuses when they are throwing 15 ashen legends out there in 10 minute forts.

    They should have capped alliances years ago and/or completely gotten rid of bonuses. There are countless perks that can be created for people playing together without just making it a cheese factory.

    Cheesing = community event has been one of the worst things Rare has stuck with in this game.

    And that's why I'm against premade alliances. It's not just that they do content quickly, but on top of that they get a percentage.

    If you want easy way, no bonuses. And you have to actually split all the loot.

    You take away bonuses = you take away cheesing. Or at least a good portion of it.

    The only reason why I maybe came off as disagreeing with you, is because the entire premise of this post is based on asking for PvE server using existing alliance servers as an excuse, and you mentioned changes to current HS alliance system as a result.

    I'd rather just have Rare start mass banning people and shutting down cheesed alliances, while allowing people with more than 3 friends being able to group up, but only on SS, if they're so hell bent not to PvP. Friendly fire and all that. Should also make all those begging for TDM happy as well.

    So at best, alliance with no bonuses. At worst, no alliances at all on SS, and I'm still more leaning towards this.

    And to be even more honest - I only actually blame Rare here. For ever allowing this to happen, and to keep allowing it to happen. However, I got no horse in this race, as I'm a happy solo player.

  • Drgn SOT
    Marauder

    @ercjnsn

    What’s stopping you from doing this in High Seas??

  • Europa4033
    Commander
    Insider

    So what's to stop me from going around sinking everyone and taking all the loot for myself? Alliance betrayals happen you realize?

  • QuillAdonia
    Seafarer

    Well heres the thing, if i put in hours of work hunting down the other ships on the server, allying with them, and then we all agree on a server wide truce and to just mind our own buisnesses- there is no harm in that. There is still risk, but for those of us that do not like PvP at all- considering cheaters/hackers, people who literally live for PvP, and stuff like that, no. Its not fun at all. And safer seas is nerfed to heck. I don't want to fight nerfed Megs, Skelly ships, and the like just because some people are bloodthirsty. I can't stand that people have issues with ally servers when they have NO impact on anyone else besides that server alone. Like- what does it matter if there is no consequences to you?

  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    @andronikatrk said in Alliance Servers:

    Well heres the thing, if i put in hours of work hunting down the other ships on the server, allying with them, and then we all agree on a server wide truce and to just mind our own buisnesses- there is no harm in that. There is still risk, but for those of us that do not like PvP at all- considering cheaters/hackers, people who literally live for PvP, and stuff like that, no. Its not fun at all. And safer seas is nerfed to heck. I don't want to fight nerfed Megs, Skelly ships, and the like just because some people are bloodthirsty. I can't stand that people have issues with ally servers when they have NO impact on anyone else besides that server alone. Like- what does it matter if there is no consequences to you?

    "it doesn't cause harm to anyone else" has always been the weakest case that alliance server supporters use.

    It's just factually incorrect. Risk/reward requires not only balance to be sustainable but also healthy and consistent organic activity. Less people playing organically and more people cheesing makes a worse environment for those that play as intended and don't cheese, including those that are underdogs.

    The best case alliance server supporters can make is that Rare has made the "economy" of participation completely irrelevant by flooding sot with excessive reward. There is currently an event that runs 7 days and is just flooding 15 packs of ashen legends out there. This is terrible long term, they have made themselves completely dependent on ridiculous rewarding to get people interested. Next year will probably be significantly worse. They are just doubling and tripling reward at this point. To the point where events have become entire skippable because there is always some cheesy event on the horizon (that will probably pay even more).

    The game is already pretty much an alliance server game at the experienced/reg level. Spiking servers is as common as the seagull spawns are now.

    Good thing they nerfed the poison dart for solos against ancient megs. We wouldn't want some solo out there killing a meg 2 minutes faster while people spend an entire week making a hundred million+ and mass athena levels with their buddies in non-organic scenarios, lol.

  • R3vanNS
    Master
    Insider

    @andronikatrk said in Alliance Servers:

    Well heres the thing, if i put in hours of work hunting down the other ships on the server, allying with them, and then we all agree on a server wide truce and to just mind our own buisnesses- there is no harm in that. There is still risk, but for those of us that do not like PvP at all- considering cheaters/hackers, people who literally live for PvP, and stuff like that, no. Its not fun at all. And safer seas is nerfed to heck. I don't want to fight nerfed Megs, Skelly ships, and the like just because some people are bloodthirsty. I can't stand that people have issues with ally servers when they have NO impact on anyone else besides that server alone. Like- what does it matter if there is no consequences to you?

    FYI, nothing is nerfed in SS. Megs, Skellies, etc. absolutely the same difficulty as in HS.

    Also, you're not entitled to the same rewards and special treatment just cuz you can't adapt, and are not willing to deal with other players (who like PvP aspect).

    And this is coming from almost exclusively a PvE player, who spends 70% of his time on SS, and solo.

    It's exhausting hearing people cry about this over and over again. Deal with it, or find a new game.

  • QuillAdonia
    Seafarer

    @r3vanns Again, if I build up an alliance server by going to each ship on the server and making friends, thats not cheesing the game. I'm just saying, I don't deserve a cut back in gold because some people are unhappy about alliances being built. Its part of the game. I spend hours making friends with people. Thats hard work. Just because some people are butthurt that I can make friends with a whole server doesn't mean I deserve to be treated differently than any other player. If its a whole server no one else is getting hurt by it. Not a single person. Because theres other servers to jump to. Thats the fun of the game. I put in the work i deserve the payout.

  • R3vanNS
    Master
    Insider

    @andronikatrk said in Alliance Servers:

    @r3vanns Again, if I build up an alliance server by going to each ship on the server and making friends, thats not cheesing the game. I'm just saying, I don't deserve a cut back in gold because some people are unhappy about alliances being built. Its part of the game. I spend hours making friends with people. Thats hard work. Just because some people are butthurt that I can make friends with a whole server doesn't mean I deserve to be treated differently than any other player. If its a whole server no one else is getting hurt by it. Not a single person. Because theres other servers to jump to. Thats the fun of the game. I put in the work i deserve the payout.

    If we're already gonna play pretend here, if you could actually organically gather up an entire server of people to form an alliance, you wouldn't be here complaining about it, wouldn't you? You wouldn't be begging for official PvE/Alliance servers.

    And since you're already mentioning your "hard work", well be my guest! Actually do your hard work, and then you're gonna have what you're begging for.

    You're not entitled to anything. Especially not to devs making a detour from the intended gameplay vision and spending resources to develop something you can already achieve in the game, just cause you're lazy.

    And you're not treated differently. You're treated exactly as you should be - like everyone else. Deal with it, or find a new game. It's super simple.

    In the meantime, be happy they still didn't start mass banning all of you alliance cheesers.

  • QuillAdonia
    Seafarer

    @r3vanns actually I'm not begging for an alliance only server. Not once did i ask that. I was calling out other people for acting like alliance servers are some kind of cheat. And yes, i do organically get allianced servers all the time, actually. And i do get the pay out, i don't think I should lose out on those pay outs because some people can't be friendly. I got an entire server (5 sloops and my galley) to alliance together earlier today. All i had to do was ask. It took a while to find them all because we dont run reaper to find other players, we do it the hard way lol. All I'm asking is that people just leave us friendly players alone in the comments and in threads like this. We all play the game our own ways. I'm not bugging on PvP players. If its fun to them its fun to them. If i can't get an alliance or run into players that just want to fight I'll skuttle and go to the next server and start over.
    Basically what I'm getting at is I don't want seperate servers, I want to be treated just the same as any other player. If i get an alliance server built up fair and square I shouldn't be treated terribly.

  • QuillAdonia
    Seafarer

    @wolfmanbush i dont do athena or the flame one either. I'm still level 6 in both of those. I literally have not once touched hourglass except once on accident. Could you break down for me why exactly alliances are causing this problem with gold? Because as far as i am aware there are tons of exploits people use to get massive amounts of gold all the time. I don't do that. I just simply make friends with people and we each do our own things. The fishermen do the fishermen things. The gold hoarders do gold hoarder things. Order of souls do order things. I'm not sitting there farming one spot for hours. I still deal with megs and skellys and stuff. But i make friends out of it all. Isn't that also important? Not just sinking people, but creating bonds with others that is in some way meaningful outside of just a game? I've also dealt with tons of really crude, terrible people in game. It highkey sucks when you are a new player and someone comes up, spawn kills you for 20 minutes while calling you all sorts of names. Like- just sink me at that point. Being spawn killed for fun isn't the point of the game either. But tons of people do that.

  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    @andronikatrk said in Alliance Servers:

    @wolfmanbush Could you break down for me why exactly alliances are causing this problem with gold? Because as far as i am aware there are tons of exploits people use to get massive amounts of gold all the time.

    In a shared adventure environment we are each other's risk, reward, encounters, randomness, thrill, variety, wholesomeness, challenge, adversity, experience, opportunity.

    By removing ourselves from this for personal gain we are robbing people, not pirates. We are taking but not giving. We are hoarding, not sharing.

    This place only thrives in the organic experience and only with mass participation. Anything outside of that is chipping away at the present and the future of SoT as an exciting adventure game and as a community.

  • QuillAdonia
    Seafarer

    @wolfmanbush But i AM having an organic experience. Every time I get on an manage to fight skelly's and krakens and megs, every time I make a new friend. Even when the alliances fail, it is an organic experience. For me, making friends is the most fun of it all. Like yeah, cool. I get gold and reputation and all of that, but some of the people I've met because I try my hardest to make friends are some of the coolest folks I've ever met. THATS fun to me. Sure i get sunk here and there, sure i meet some people that decide to insult me, my skill, my voice, ect. But the good people i meet is well worth it.

  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    @andronikatrk said in Alliance Servers:

    @wolfmanbush But i AM having an organic experience. Every time I get on an manage to fight skelly's and krakens and megs, every time I make a new friend. Even when the alliances fail, it is an organic experience. For me, making friends is the most fun of it all. Like yeah, cool. I get gold and reputation and all of that, but some of the people I've met because I try my hardest to make friends are some of the coolest folks I've ever met. THATS fun to me. Sure i get sunk here and there, sure i meet some people that decide to insult me, my skill, my voice, ect. But the good people i meet is well worth it.

    Not many people have any issue with organic alliances, I certainly don't.

    The conversation of alliance servers is more about stuff like discord servers that spike servers, completely remove themselves from organic sot play.

    If you are sailing around forming organic alliances there isn't anything wrong with that and it's not lumped in with the more extreme stuff.

  • QuillAdonia
    Seafarer

    @wolfmanbush but i get lumped in with that anyways. Like you can see in the comments from the other guy. He put words in my mouth i never said. I never said i want alliance only servers. I like building them up. I like making friends. My biggest issue with the game is that they pit people with lvl 1000 golden ghost skins in with the rest of us. There is absolutely nothing that I can do to stop or fight a player like that, and escaping their range to dive away is nearly impossible. And then theres the super toxic players. Like i mentioned before I was being spawn killed for like 20 minutes with my friends and i got called a kitchen w.e.n.c.h and told to "shut up and let the grown men speak" by those same players. It gets ridiculous out there sometimes. But i dont want less loot and less chances to make friends. So i don't sail SS. I know the risks. I just want people to understand that some of us "Ally players" really do put in the effort to build up a server alliance naturally. One day I hope i get to run into you in game and try to ally with you. You'll see I'm not messing around. I just wanna be friends and chill lol

  • BurnBacon
    Vanguard
    Insider

    they pit people with lvl 1000 golden ghost skins in with the rest of us. There is absolutely nothing that I can do to stop or fight a player like that

    Its the mindset of the idea, Just because they have the 1000 golden ghost skin = They are Better than me. It isn't true.
    What you can do? Fight anyways.

    What the difference between fighting someone with the skin on and skin off? Nothing. My friend has both 1000 lvl skins, he piggie backed off a group of galleon runners. He still to this day, can't pvp to save himself. :/

    It like the PL title, it means nothing.

  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    @andronikatrk said in Alliance Servers:

    One day I hope i get to run into you in game and try to ally with you. You'll see I'm not messing around. I just wanna be friends and chill lol

    I've spent about 98% of my time in sot being defense pvp only. Literally thousands and thousands and thousands of encounters where I didn't attack or attack first.

    I have zero issues with what you say you are doing and I don't think you should feel bad or guilty about it at all and I don't think you have to justify it at all.

    I get that you feel attacked or targeted because people criticize alliance servers pretty harshly sometimes. Entirely understandable to want to explain your side of the situation.

    I not only support organic alliances I think they are entirely a healthy part of the SoT experience.

  • QuillAdonia
    Seafarer

    @burnbacon oh no the guys I'm talking about for sure earned it. It was intense. And at some point I got bored, knew they were running reaper, set some traps in front of the reaper selling point with some blunder booms and scuttled to new seas. They kept hunting us for like 2 hours, though. Tried to stick it out. But players like THAT make it hard to enjoy the game lol. I suck at PvP.

  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    @andronikatrk said in Alliance Servers:

    Tried to stick it out. But players like THAT make it hard to enjoy the game lol. I suck at PvP.

    That matters for win % but literally nothing else in an adventure game.

    In 2023 I switched to cloud gaming, a controller, and I play on a browser on a laptop. My experience carried over but efficiency in combat sure didn't. I wasn't anything to write home about in tdm before that, now I'm just a determined mosquito.

    When I fight I fight on the above, same for pve and adventure and all of it. It's a huge disadvantage in pvp on top of me being a solo but it's no biggie because adventure is all strategy and finding ways to make the best out of it.

    Nobody should ever look at their pvp skill level as something that is stopping them from achieving progress and a quality outcome. It's never anything to feel down about or to resent. It's just a part of the game and we all have different strengths and weaknesses.

    Just find the harmony in the encounter and don't fight what exists.

    That could be leaving, that could be scuttling, that could be trying things outside of the box, that could be doing goofy stuff, that could be just moving on quickly.

    One of the keys to how I adventure is that I'm always willing to move on before the ego kicks in and before any sort of bitterness takes control. Always willing to take the short term L for the long term W. Then it's all manageable in an optimistic way. Sometimes I do alright and sometimes I'm a person with a ridiculous amount of experience that gets absolutely wrecked easily in a way that certainly doesn't make me look skilled or experienced.

    Having nothing to prove and not being embarrassed because of standards that other people make up goes a long way in an adventure game with pvp. It's alright to lose, it's always alright to lose. It's the foundation for humility and humility is the foundation for appreciating things enough to where every session in a game is a pretty good session.

  • R3vanNS
    Master
    Insider

    @andronikatrk

    First, a confession to make - there is a TON of disingenuous people coming to forum, masking their actual ideas, justifying them with something silly, gaslighting, etc. I initially thought you were one of these because I've seen many similar narratives. It's almost becoming a muscle memory to lash out to these, so that's 100% my bad.

    On top of that people ,including myself, are fed up of entitled crybabies (both PvP-only and PvE-only), as well as of people abusing Alliance system (discord Alliance servers). Reading your latter comments, apparently, I misjudged and I'm genuinely sorry for that.

    If you are actually managing to pull organic alliance server, I can only give kudos to you, and I have absolutely nothing against that.

    And if you're actually playing the game and acting in it as you're portraying in the latter comments with Wolf, I'd be the first one to have a good time running into you and your crew.

    If that means anything to you now. That's all from me.

  • QuillAdonia
    Seafarer

    @r3vanns if you and all the others above want to add me on discord maybe we could play sometime. I'll show you my friendship making skills. :)

  • Valor Omega
    Champion
    Insider

    @r3vanns I just want the ability to play with more than 3 of my buddies, in general. I'm all for the PvP threat, I just want either a larger ship, or the ability to AT LEAST get two ships onto one server, so we can all play together. Feels actually terrible when my buddies want to all play at once, and have to pick and choose who to play with :/ ..

  • R3vanNS
    Master
    Insider

    @valor-omega said in Alliance Servers:

    @r3vanns I just want the ability to play with more than 3 of my buddies, in general. I'm all for the PvP threat, I just want either a larger ship, or the ability to AT LEAST get two ships onto one server, so we can all play together. Feels actually terrible when my buddies want to all play at once, and have to pick and choose who to play with :/ ..

    I'm gonna say/admit something most opposing people won't - I guess it's harder for us who don't have that many friends to play with (or barely any), to imagine this being that important to someone else.

    I'm the first one to keep forgetting that some people are actually socializing beyond a few people.

    Still, this remains a hot topic due to balancing (and in a degree, performance) involved, and the already controversial discord alliances.

    But I do get it. Just can't figure out how can this be properly introduced not to deeply affect HS. There are several different ideas being thrown around, and each is a good one, just not good enough.

    Admittedly, I can only claim that as my opinion. Don't know what Rare's stance on it would look like.

  • R3vanNS
    Master
    Insider

    The biggest problem with this topic is, what boils down to two, conflicting angles, and both are valid.

    Angle 1:

    • Alliances are already a part of the system
    • Discord alliances are a thing, and Rare is not banning them

    = If they're not banning them, then what's stopping them from just allowing, for example, 8 people lobbies (2x4 people galleons)

    Angle 2:

    • Alliances are already a part of the system
    • They are being max cheesed by Discord premades that Rare is STILL not banning, but they mentioned they might if it gets out of control, and Rare does not endorse them

    = Alliances should stay either as they are, or nerfed even more, to discourage cheesing + not everyone has a luxury of having many friends

    If we were to marry these two angles - would any of you accept being allowed to have up to 8 people lobbies (so as mentioned, 2 ships 8 players), but being stripped down of alliance bonuses (so able to make an alliance between premade 2x4 player crew, but not get any bonuses)?

    Because Rare's idea behind making alliances and adding bonuses was to encourage meeting new players + make it a risk because you don't know if or when someone will betray you. Which by definition disqualifies people you know - your friends. They won't betray you, and you've already "met" them.

    ^ This is why premade 2+ ship crews within a current alliance system are such a controversial topic. There's just too many things to consider.

  • Valor Omega
    Champion
    Insider

    @r3vanns I absolutely respect the performance/balancing issue, and agree that in the wrong hands could absolutely be abused. I know that folks can just try and log in at once, and try to get into the same server (I myself have done this a couple times in the past), but it takes SO long that it's almost not worth it.

    I do understand where folks' frustration of alliance servers come from - often they're toxic, they make people pay for their services, and just generally are cheesing, and it just takes the fun away.

    On the flip side, I've personally always viewed alliance servers as something outside my immediate realm of experience (if they're in a completely different server than me, why should it matter to me what others in another server are up to, and how/why does it effect me - it doesn't. I think the biggest argument against AS is the leaderboard aspect, but honestly at what point does that stop? For me, after getting all my emissary ledger goodies I couldn't care less if I was in x place/spot.

    I dunno, I just feel like a 2 ship spawn isn't such a big deal. I know there's the argument of being able to easily sink swabbies and whatnot, but that can happen with organically formed alliances any way, so I can't really see the difference. If we're talking about a way of somewhat balancing a potential addition like this, I'd even be in favor of a flat 50% cut of gold/rep gain to keep regular HS play incentivized.

  • QuillAdonia
    Seafarer

    @valor-omega hold up- rewind, people are making people pay for alliance servers?! Thats beyond stupid.
    On that note: I would love more friends to play with. Disc name is andronika.the.red
    But thats just ridiculous.

  • Valor Omega
    Champion
    Insider

    @andronikatrk Yeah, there's unfortunately a few bad ones out there that have paid tiers, which allow them to find spots/crews faster, or prioritizes paid users in their que - really unfortunate. Thankfully, not all are like that though - some just organize ships so people can play together, love it or hate it.

  • QuillAdonia
    Seafarer

    @valor-omega thats... thats just abhorrent.

  • Valor Omega
    Champion
    Insider

    @andronikatrk Yeah, those bad apples particularly put a sour taste in people's mouths, regarding alliance servers.

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