@guildar9194 Well said. I remember being really excited about New World, but the PvP aspect, and the general elitism that those players exhibited really turned my friends and I from that game. Sounds like it's not gotten much better either, which is a shame.
I don't mind PvP in the slightest - in fact it's some of the most fun I've had on SoT, but I really grow tired of this mindset of elitism, entitlement, and all-aboutism and generally trying to push for the game to be something it's not.
@guildar9194 I don’t think high seas are bad I think they’re getting boring overtime bcs it’s repetitive. I think this game would be better with an expansion of the PvP part that will obviously be optional and being able to put your fov at least to 110 would make it cleaner
@valor-omega I think this game has a lot of potential in expanding the PvP part like naval and TDM. Naval PvP is really fun and complex and that why I think it would be a shame to not expand this part of this game.
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@guildar9194 look I wasn’t trying to insult you I was trying to explain that the PvP part is really fun but a lot of player give up on it because they’re losing too much and that’s a shame and I don’t think that would happen as much with some more PvP options which could benefit the improvement of new or PvE players
@fellowsot said in Why Sea of Thieves is Dying::
@guildar9194 i never said i don’t like PvE i said it get gets boring overtime because it’s too repetitive it’s the same thing all over again that’s the issue for me i like to do it time to time but rarely now because it feels unfulfilling
And again, you are projecting YOUR preferences onto someone who has different likes and goals in the game. Just because YOU find it boring over time does not mean someone who is more geared towards that style of play would - especially if they enjoy it. People play Destiny and Diablo games over and over...and those also are just the same thing, playing the same levels & doing the same thing yet they are STILL played. Phantasy Star Online is another - even though it is old and repetitive (playing the same levels), people still to this day play and watch it be played.
By the same token, other people may find PvP boring for similar reasons. It is the same thing over and over, same levels, etc. Point being you cannot project your preferences onto other players who you do not know and use that as a generalization to support your point. Especially in a game like this that supports such a wide range of play styles.
@fellowsot I don't disagree on the sheer potential of this game. I've been asking for/pushing for more Hourglass game modes that provide things like TDM, Capture the Flag, etc - I think all of those would be great additions and really breathe some life into hourglass.
My issue with this whole thread, and OP's mindset is that they come off as PvP-centric entitlement; they thought exploits/animation cancels were fine and should have stayed, and acting like Rare owes them something for being a "dedicated" player, even though that "dedication" really equates to learning how to cheese/exploit.
Real skill comes from experience, and truly good players don't need to abuse animation cancels, exploits, etc to be skillful.
@fellowsot said in Why Sea of Thieves is Dying::
@guildar9194 I don’t think high seas are bad I think they’re getting boring overtime bcs it’s repetitive. I think this game would be better with an expansion of the PvP part that will obviously be optional and being able to put your fov at least to 110 would make it cleaner
A lot of monotony in SoT but quite a bit of it is self created by experienced players.
I always have stories to tell and random encounters to think back on because I play the game completely organically. I don't push a narrative on a server, I don't create content on a server, I'm not overindulging on wins and action. I embrace it all, every day. And it works out for me well. I never play this game to win, I play for the rewarding organic experience.
That's not how a lot of experienced players play anymore. It all becomes hopping, action, content creation/farming. A lot of ego and chest pounding or drama along the way.
In my view too many view this game as a flex game, or a backdrop for a social media experience, or a farm to harvest drama and attention outside of the game itself. Experience and time often lead people to separate themselves from the organic experience. One without agenda or personal gain beyond just playing the game itself.
That's where it gets boring and repetitive, that's where it starts to feel like work and a job, that's where everything leans negative and towards conflict.
That's part on the players and part what Rare has built up over the years.
A lot of cool stuff happens outside of the metas and the flexing and the farming. Especially a season like 15 where it's not a lot of contrived combat as the seasonal content.
Seeing people as people (an integral part of the ecosystem) and not as pawns or characters for a post or another sink makes this game a lot of fun to experience.
@valor-omega yea the only thing quickswap would bring that I would like is cool clips but I know that’s never getting added crud launch was fun but it was an exploit so I can’t ask for that obviously
@fellowsot said in Why Sea of Thieves is Dying::
@guildar9194 i never said i don’t like PvE i said it get gets boring overtime because it’s too repetitive it’s the same thing all over again that’s the issue for me i like to do it time to time but rarely now because it feels unfulfilling
Yeah that comes with elongated playtime, dedication, and cheesing.
Once you feel you're on top of the world in terms of interesting activities, you're gonna get bored, the well of dopamine will dry up, and you're gonna be grasping for more like an addict.
Live service games that don't remove your player progress for inactivity or anything are going to dry up in interest, that should be normal. You don't have to play a game everyday to get the most out of your day.
@fellowsot People genuinely acted like Rare shot their puppy, because exploits such as this were removed. That's the main issue I really take - a game doesn't NEED these cheesy tactics to be enjoyed. Been playing since day 1, and I've never felt the need to abuse mechanics to get ahead of another crew.
@nex-stargaze I don’t play sot everyday I haven’t played for a week I’ve been playing for couple of years and the PvE is just too repetitive that’s all
@fellowsot My genuine advice is this; If you're not enjoying the game, there is a myriad of other great games out there (can personally and wholeheartedly recommend Monster Hunter Wilds).
Taking breaks is okay, and is the largest reason as to why I've been able to enjoy SoT as immensely as I have, despite having over 3k hours. Playing something in a fairly constant manner will almost always result in burnout, even if you really like the game.
@mslechtic15
Don't bother with the negativity, it seems to be the same people each time in most of these posts.
Sea of Thieves webmaster(s) really need to define what a suggestion is, what feedback is, and what a demand is.
You all are like screaming banshees when you have to read something that might conflict with your own ideals on the way you think things should be.
It's rather comical to read, like your opinion matters more than whomever makes a suggestion you don't like.
@gamerglyph said in Why Sea of Thieves is Dying::
@mslechtic15
Don't bother with the negativity, it seems to be the same people each time in most of these posts.
I fail to see how similar people replying on similar posts has any bearing on the discussion, unless you are trying to imply that our opinions are somehow invalid, in which case you're being quite hypocritical here.
You all are like screaming banshees when you have to read something that might conflict with your own ideals on the way you think things should be.
Rather ironic, considering that's quite literally what the OP is doing - people have given counter-debates to what was said, and the OP continue to double down on what and how they think the game should be operated, and dooming about how the game is supposedly dying, because their niche community isn't being catered to in the ways they believe they should be. Never mind, devolving into calling people "casuals" because their views don't align with OP's - quite laughable.
It's rather comical to read, like your opinion matters more than whomever makes a suggestion you don't like.
Won't disagree there, it's been fun. Watching exploit cheesers waffle for their precious "tech" to be brought back brings joy to my day.
@dlchief58 We, as primarily PvP players, don’t prioritize PvP development over PvE. We’re just frustrated that Rare hasn’t found a balance, which is why the PvP community is almost dead.
@valor-omega I agree that quick switching was unfair at first, but I think the current swap is too slow, making the game feel less fluid. No one said we can’t be good without fast swapping, but it’s clear that Rare tried to weaken skilled players as much as possible and reduce the skill gap.
For example, the sword is way too strong now, freezing you in place, and if you’re below deck as a double gunner, there’s nothing you can do. The removal of one-blunder, the massive swap delay, and other changes all contribute to this.I also want to add that hit registration issues severely limit the game as well.
@mslechtic15 What balance would you like to be struck? They've added new weapons to the arsenal, the Burning Blade incentivizes PvP, and even rewards Hourglass folks, Skull of Siren Song (less of an example I'll admit, but it's still a PvP-centric addition).
While you may not personally like or enjoy those additions, and view them as appropriate, the fact remains that those are PvP-centered additions. I'd be over the moon happy if they added more Hourglass game modes, more levels, rewards, etc - I've pushed for that for a while (One HG main even pushed against these ideas, citing that hourglass is fine as is, which is crazy to me).
@fellowsot said in Why Sea of Thieves is Dying::
@guildar9194 i never said i don’t like PvE i said it get gets boring overtime because it’s too repetitive it’s the same thing all over again that’s the issue for me i like to do it time to time but rarely now because it feels unfulfilling
You can bet that's what most PvPvE people (and PvE crowd) feel about pure PvP.
Insinuating HG ain't more repetitive than the entire remaining non-HG sandbox is top level cope. HG is textbook repetitiveness.
It's just the repetitiveness that you and a small minority prefer. Oh no, too bad, oh well.
@gamerglyph I’m just stating that PvP has potential and shouldn’t be neglected compared to PvE. I’m not prioritizing one over the other, just pointing it out.
@mslechtic15 I can get behind making weapon swaps feel more fluid, but then I think the question needs to be asked - why/what purpose is there in needing to swap weapons in a fast pace, if not for resulting in faster time to kill.
As for Blunderbuss, I think they could do well to at least reduce some of the spread issues, but the one-hit kill was absolutely a crutch that too many people relied on and abused for far too long, and I'm glad it's gone.
I won't disagree either on registration issues, but I think we all need to realize that the bespoke engine they are working with, combined with ancient Azure servers are simply inadequate for what's needed, and Microsoft needs to allocate better servers, and SoT needs to be migrated to UE5, but that's a discussion for another day.
Don't personally believe that sword is as in a rough spot as you say. I've come across many crews using two guns that effectively prevent gap closing, and 2-tap me before I can do much damage. I feel that a solid crew of gun users will have no problems by and in large.
@valor-omega I think the new weapons and the rest of what you mentioned have mainly been added to improve PvE, and PvP players won’t really make use of them… I want to find a balance where Rare listens to the PvP community as well and adds things to revive it, not just give us the option to play against each other and leave it at that, while continuing to support the PvE community and adding things for them.For example, I don’t see why they couldn’t add training servers with friends that you could play against, or TDM servers. It would really breathe new life into the game.
@mslechtic15 I've been a longtime PvP enjoyer and while I'm not on the level of some of the hardcore folks/HG mains, I've found that the Knives have been a great shake up of the overall meta. Could it be that folks have used the same weapons for so long, that new weapons don't come close? I feel like that could at least play partially into it, good/bad/indifferently.
As far as private servers go, I feel like that's something we will eventually get somewhere down the line - content creators have them now, so really sky is the limit there.
@valor-omega I’m not saying we don’t have problems with it, but a lot of people either left or started cheating just because they found it ridiculous.
I also think that a higher FOV would be fair for all players because those who want it can get it without any punishment, which makes it unfair for those who are stuck at 90. Rare can’t do anything about it except increase it at least a little, like most other games do. For example, even KCD2 has 110 FOV, and that’s a single-player RPG.
A game with a higher FOV simply looks much better, and I don’t think it would ruin the balance—it would just make the game more enjoyable for everyone, not just PvP players but also PvE players, who would benefit from seeing more around them and enjoying the view.
@valor-omega I don’t think we will ever get private servers because Rare doesn’t want to reward the PvP community. I don’t know why, but they could have added them a long time ago. Ever since they removed the Arena, they had the chance to introduce something new, but they never did.
@mslechtic15 I can understand frustration and feelings of not feeling heard, but I can't say I agree with the people that resort to cheating - that's just a childish response.
I don't know why FOV is locked at 90, I will admit that most games at least allow for 100, and it generally makes views easier to look at (especially to people with eyesight issues/motion sickness). Dunno if it's engine limitation or what, but until Rare increases it, which is doubtful, not much can be done sadly. Artificially increasing it is asking for a ban though, so I'd avoid it.
@mslechtic15 said in Why Sea of Thieves is Dying::
@valor-omega I’m not saying we don’t have problems with it, but a lot of people either left or started cheating just because they found it ridiculous.
I also think that a higher FOV would be fair for all players because those who want it can get it without any punishment, which makes it unfair for those who are stuck at 90. Rare can’t do anything about it except increase it at least a little, like most other games do. For example, even KCD2 has 110 FOV, and that’s a single-player RPG.
A game with a higher FOV simply looks much better, and I don’t think it would ruin the balance—it would just make the game more enjoyable for everyone, not just PvP players but also PvE players, who would benefit from seeing more around them and enjoying the view.
SoT was built around 90fov. Anything above is not allowed/bannable + it anyways looks worse (according to footage of people that used 3rd party software for this). You can list 100+ more games it doesn't matter at all, for the reason mentioned.
You thinking/feeling, or someone else thinking/feeling about higher FoV, again doesn't matter cause of the above reasons
People migrating is normal. Cheating for whatever reasons is beyond lame and pathetic, no matter how you try to justify it. Game is well rid of any type of cheaters/exploiters, for whatever reasons they "had to do it".
Saying that hg has cheating so it's an overall cheat filled environment just isn't accurate.
Arena was similar.
I agree with that. The jump from "cheating exists" to "cheating is widespread" requires data. Data that neither you nor I have lol. The same data that would help you make your claim that the complaints are "overblown."
The thing is, I don't know if it's a major issue. I can only speak anecdotally, and I make that evident. My anecdotes with cheaters are mostly set in Arena and HG. Which is why I asked about your time in Arena and HG.
I think one of my first DMs to you was a baythanger video where he talked about an entire discord community of Arena cheaters lol. And though Arena had its share, in my experience, HG seemed to bring in more, and more blatant ones (speed/flying/TPing/etc).
Entirely fair to say that low population situations with pockets of competitive play see cheating but that's a very small part of overall play and participation in SoT.
I think it's more fair to acknowledge that:
However big an issue it is or isn't, Rare invested in an anti-cheat. However big an issue it is or isn't, Rare is pausing changes to HG until they handle cheating.
I will agree that, if most of your time is spent elsewhere (as you do), then yes, you're probably less likely to run into cheaters. Which is what I was getting at, when asking about your time spent in HG.
People can be on the risk side of SoT for literally years and see minimal cheating. That's how most people experience the game, most people aren't fomo grinding stuff like HG.
Again, I agree with this entirely. When I used to world event reaper stack, I still didn't run into as many cheaters as I did in HG sessions. I think in all my years stacking, maybe two that I remember?
I remember a few summers ago, I would've been lucky if I only ran into two cheaters in a single HG sesh lol.
The same thing can be turned around and said that the competitive players are often completely outside of the organic experience so they often don't see how low the cheating is outside of their own type of play.
Yes, it is possible for people to take their anecdotal experience in HG and wrongfully extrapolate that to mean that they're in just as much risk while, for example, fishing in the DR.
Hg is also on adventure servers, it's not like they are separated, even though they end up on the servers with everyone else they still haven't done much as far as preventing people from participating in the adventure design. If it was thick with cheating people like me would know, because a lot of the more competitive players in sot aren't the one taking risks on servers.
Because they dive lol. Idk man, maybe there are some cheaters who play HG passively while stacking and just happen to be nice to the other ships. But if I had to guess, they probably just fight, dive, fight, dive, rinse, repeat like most other HG crews. They're probably not sticking around long enough to interfere with anyone's grand risk-taking stack sesh.
People like me know that the exploiting has gotten worse because people use it against us regularly in hostile encounters. Same can't be said for the downloaded/obvious cheat stuff.
Ah, people like you know... based on what data? Or, anecdotes aside, can we base it off how Rare responded to the exploits with patches (albeit delayed) or rolling back people's gold/xp earnings.
For you, the "same can't be said" about the other stuff for the same reason. Your experiences feed your perspective.
Btw many of the same people always going on about sot being cheat filled are the ones that are using the exploits against the people that play organically. Then justifying it in one way or another.
I mean if you had a venn diagram of the two populations, I'm sure there'd be some overlap.
I've never had my gold rolled back, never received so much as a yellowbeard. Quickswapping and animation canceling is as far as I've gone and since it's been patched I've never sought a workaround.
Yet, I think Rare's decision to add an anti-cheat was at least a step in the right direction. I think pausing HG content until the cheating is more under control, is also a step in the right direction. I think in-game reporting, while botched in execution, was still a step in the right direction.
Is it "cheat filled?" I've said this to you in other convos before, but I don't know. But I do know that you don't know either lol. Rare knows. We just know they're acting on it. Or, trying to, I guess.
@mslechtic15 Never say never, tbh. I can see it happening - there's no reason not to, honestly.
As for "Rare not wanting to reward the PvP community," and while I truly don't think it's a simple answer as that, I'll play devil's advocate; if I were a game developer, and had a subset of players who regularly pop off in toxic manners, foster a community around that toxicity, and who have historically and regularly thrown collective temper tantrums on socials, bashing devs regularly, and harassing people who disagree with them openly, I wouldn't want to reward that bunch, either. There is no amount of frustration, no amount of not feeling heard, that justifies the ways the PvP community has historically acted.
if I were a game developer, and had a subset of players who regularly pop off in toxic manners, foster a community around that toxicity, and who have historically and regularly thrown collective temper tantrums on socials, bashing devs regularly, and harassing people who disagree with them openly, I wouldn't want to reward that bunch, either.
This. All the way.
As for "Rare not wanting to reward the PvP community," and while I truly don't think it's a simple answer as that, I'll play devil's advocate; if I were a game developer, and had a subset of players who regularly pop off in toxic manners, foster a community around that toxicity, and who have historically and regularly thrown collective temper tantrums on socials, bashing devs regularly, and harassing people who disagree with them openly, I wouldn't want to reward that bunch, either.
Lol but not all dedicated PvPers, or HG mains, or people who consider themselves part of a larger PvP community "regularly" do any of that stuff.
I too wouldn't want to reward people who target and harass anyone, on socials, in private, where ever.
But if I knew a subset of my playerbase regularly played HG, and there seems to be some general agreement in the feedback spaces regarding improvements, it would behoove me as a business to retain their activity. Rather than make them feel unheard...
Demotivating them to play, to the point they just loom in the forums... Waiting for someone to say "Arena," so they can pop in and make the same comment they've made in the other nearly identical threads...
I miss Arena.
@nex-stargaze said in Why Sea of Thieves is Dying::
When everyone plays the same/similarly, it doesn't feel as fun as the years go by.
The introduction of the Double Barrel, Throwing Knife, Blowpipe, and Grapple Gun were supposed to be a way to mitigate the complaints about same-y CQC battles, except most of the new weapons have questionable implementations (Knives), negatively affected other weapons to create a "balance" (Grapple), or are so unusual, clunky, and slow that people can't seriously use it in a battle (Double Barrel and Blowpipe).
100% agree. Proper balancing should be a focus. It impacts the highest tiers the most, but also new players that come into the game aren't going to enjoy using a clunky hard to learn weapon. And casual players would benefit from more variety as well. Polish is the biggest issue with SoT, and part of polish is the feel of combat and the balancing of weapons. This should be addressed by the new "quality control" team led by Drew, maybe after some of the bigger issues tho.
@theblackbellamy said:
Lol but not all dedicated PvPers, or HG mains, or people who consider themselves part of a larger PvP community "regularly" do any of that stuff.
You're correct - but there was a grand majority that did, and still do. Good/bad/indifferent, in a societal setting, negative actions of a particular group of people are going to reverberate and people are going to be left with a bad taste in their mouths. Can't say I saw many, if any of the people outside those groups calling out that bad behavior, either - probably out of fear of targeted harassment. Personally, and being a PvP enjoyer myself, I've called out the bad apples on many occasions, and have been met with rampant harassment, slurs in my Twitter DMs, etc - I hate that as a PvP player, I'm roped in with those clowns.
I too wouldn't want to reward people who target and harass anyone, on socials, in private, where ever.
But if I knew a subset of my playerbase regularly played HG, and there seems to be some general agreement in the feedback spaces regarding improvements, it would behoove me as a business to retain their activity. Rather than make them feel unheard...
I'm with you - I have been asking for changes/updates to Hourglass as well. But I can't say that I agree that badgering the devs for these changes, especially in the myriad of negative ways I've personally witnessed, is the way to go about bringing change - don't bite the hand that feeds, as it were.
Demotivating them to play, to the point they just loom in the forums... Waiting for someone to say "Arena," so they can pop in and make the same comment they've made in the other nearly identical threads...
Taking breaks, and playing other games is really something I cannot understate. If someone is having a bad time on a game, play something else that does bring that joy, and that spark back. Forcing oneself to keep playing something they don't have the energy to play is only digging themselves further into a pit of despair.
I miss Arena.
Same mate, it was a good time.
