Burning Blade Exploit may have lasting effects on Season 13's Content

  • I want to preface this by assuring you that this thread does not in any way condone or even hint at how any exploits are performed, and simply discusses the effects of it existing. I have checked the Forum rules per the post in the Announcements Category to make sure this is fair game.

    We are currently seeing the singular most insane money/rep exploit this game has ever seen. Sea of Thieves prides itself in being able to consistently one up its previous Season with a new exploit stronger than the last. The LoTV Exploits, Various Hourglass Exploits, the Guild Farm exploits, The Fleet Diving Exploits, voyage exploits, sea fort exploits, etc. The new exploits allowing you to gain over 50 rituals in a single Skeleton Camp, that's 3.125 Million Gold per Camp, and there's potential for it to be even stronger up to over 100 per camp. That's not even including Gold Rush, nor if this exploit persists until a 2x event.

    This is going to negatively impact the Burning Blade once the exploits are removed. The hardest commendations being to get 10 streaks of 8, 10 streaks of 4, and sell 50 swords of 3, these are all a lot easier for people currently abusing the exploit, which due to how widespread it has become its clear so many people are using it. Even if they aren't going crazy doing 40 at once, they're doing at least 4 or 8 to get that commendation progress, and that's really hard for other crews to figure out if its an exploit because its within a sensible number. The only way to know would be if you literally watch as the number increases on the map by more than 1. You also then have crews fighting the exploiters getting swords worth absolutely insane amounts with hundreds of rituals on them, and progressing the commendation to selling blades of high ritual count. All of this is also levelling their Reapers Rep and Rep of any faction they choose due to the sword being sellable to anyone. I sold a sword and got 96 Athena Levels. So now you have people progressing their commendations, getting insane money, and levelling all factions.

    There's pretty much no chance Rare bans people for this exploit, or if they do they only ban the people going on like the 500+ ones. Even then what does that tell people? ''you can get away with it if you are careful''. Almost all of the crews I'm fighting doing these exploits are full Galleons meaning 4 players a pop. And I'm finding so many exploiters. They would have to ban actual thousands and thousands of players. As this would be a ban-wave for doing gold grind its likely that the accounts used would be peoples mains, as why would you grind on an alt? The majority of people would not be bothered to do the hundred+ stacks so you would also be banning mostly experienced players. I have encountered easily 20+ golden skelly and golden ghost doing the very big ritual streaks. This increases the likelihood that a pretty big number of said banned players return and cheat, as one of the big reasons people cheat in sot is because they previously played legit, got banned for reasons they deem unfair, and decide well if I'm gonna get banned for evasion I might as well cheat. I'm obviously not condoning that mindset, but that is how people often think, which I have even heard from cheaters I have encountered in game.

    As far as we know nobody got banned during the Fleet or Sea Fort Exploits due to how widespread it got and how many people would need to be banned. However they did ban people that did insane abuse of the LoTV Exploit despite it being relatively far less impactful than either Fleet, Sea Fort or new Ritual Exploits. The key difference is that Rare managed to crack down on the LoTV Exploit very quickly and as such there was not as many people that used it, and even less so that used it an insane amount. This would mean not as many people need to get banned, and would hopefully show to everyone that in the future you should not using exploits out of fear of getting banned. This sentiment is lessened by the fact that the last 2 major exploits that were much bigger did not get any punishment.

    Another key issue with banning players is of banning players that steal the exploited loot. Is it possible for Rare to identify who created the loot and differentiate who sold it? This was a big concern for people stealing exploited Sea Fort loot, as if Rare just look at the kinds of loot Sea Forts Generate and look at who sells a high quantity, that would both catch the high end exploits but also people who have stolen from those high end exploiters. There was also a very damaging case during the Storage Crate Duplication bug, where a Youtuber on multiple occasions in order to test Rare decided to duplicate Fish, give all the Fish to new players (real players not just their own alts), have them sell it, then reported them. This actually resulted in those new Players getting banned, despite them not being the ones that did it, they simply sold it. Experienced players are often in the know of what exploits currently exist and can tell when loot is clearly from an exploit, but the vast majority of the playerbase are not this aware. If they manage to take some exploited loot and sell it, are they now at risk of being banned? Or maybe Rare might believe you have a moral obligation to not sell Exploited loot if you know its exploited, and would they possibly punish for doing this? Rare can clearly tell apart who is doing the Ritual exploit and who is just stealing it, because if its stolen it comes in the from of the Sword rather than just the turn in. But would they also look at the Sword sells and punish the very high ones? Could a crew similar to that Youtuber stack Rituals, then intentionally sink in front of a noob and have them sell the Sword, then report them? Or could they instead empty their crew, turn it to open crew and get the crew to return the ship, then report all those players that joined in for exploiting?

    I think a great tool this game desperately needs is a kill switch. A system that means every individual form of content can be manually disabled without the need to turn the servers off. If any exploit is discovered they can immediately nip it in the bud in real time, and then work on a fix while it is disabled. Instead of what we currently have where they are presumably racing against the clock to fix it as soon as possible and ship it all the while people are currently abusing it as best they can. Even then... What would you kill switch? Skeleton Camps? All S13 added was the BBlade and the Camps, if you kill switch the camps then all you have is the BBlade, but the BBlade's loot value is a measly 20k before the Chest of Fortune, which makes it 40k. There would also be nothing to do when you have the ship. Realistically could they even afford to kill switch this even if they had the means to do so? Maybe set a temporary cap on Rituals at 6 so that people can still do camps normally and do all camps on a server once before turning in. That way the Season is still for the most part fully intact but prevents insane abuse of the exploit, and then remove the cap once they can roll out a fix?

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  • Some of us have made the case over and over again about the damage done, the negative impact. Becoming a seasonal thing now.

    (For transparency) I've sold 1 cof. I've sank 1 BB. I've done about 25ish skelly camps without the BB for orbs. Never took over the BB and probably won't any time soon, if at all.

    I keep it clean, I hope others do as well.

    There's pretty much no chance Rare bans people for this exploit

    Oh there is a chance. I wouldn't do any of it.

    Risking an account over gold people don't really need and comms that don't really matter is just silly. Everything gets so cheesed it's not like this stuff holds any status anymore. It's risk for no real reward.

    It's not just cheesing, it's full on exploiting. Duping. It's not just some pve strat, it's not a tools not rules situation. Full on duping. They aren't obligated to be consistent in our eyes, if they choose to ban they can, it would be justified enforcement. Don't risk it.

  • Oh whew, so i could steal one of these exploiters swords and turn it for 100 athena levels? I better log back in and start looking

  • I can’t believe exploits are still a problem in this game. There literally is NO progression. (other than buying supplies maybe) The whole point of the game is to fairly earn rep and gold for cosmetics you can flex.
    I don’t exploit because every time I do in other games it just makes it boring once the rush of watching your money go up is gone.
    Tbh I hope Rare bans or suspends thousands for this
    (Or maybe takes away gold from them) because they are taking the game’s core gameplay value and trashing it. I understand why people might cheat in PvP but this is just another level.

  • @wolfmanbush

    Risking an account over gold people don't really need and comms that don't really matter is just silly. Everything gets so cheesed it's not like this stuff holds any status anymore. It's risk for no real reward.to ban they can, it would be justified enforcement. Don't risk it.

    For sure, Its simply not worth it. I've enjoyed stealing the Swords of high value, not only is that a big payday but it also means denying one of the big stackers. I honestly still find it wild just how many Skelly/Ghost or even Golden Skelly/Ghost I've seen doing this and going really high with it. Surely you wouldn't even remotely want to risk that?

    It's not just cheesing, it's full on exploiting. Duping. It's not just some pve strat, it's not a tools not rules situation. Full on duping. They aren't obligated to be consistent in our eyes, if they choose to ban they can, it would be justified enforcement. Don't risk it.

    Absolutely. I'm more trying to think through how they could even do it? I really don't see them banning quite literally everyone who had done it even once because that's simply too many people. Every account banned is one less person that could spend in the emporium, and banning for relatively tame use of it seems like a poor business decision. Especially when again there's just so many people that are doing this right now, whether or not they're doing 10 rituals or 1000. I wonder where they would put a cut-off on it in terms of how much you could get away with. As far as I know we've only had one big ban wave which occurred in 2020 at the Start of Season 1. Since then we've only had the Veil Ban-wave of which they only banned the extreme use of.

  • @karkona

    Oh whew, so i could steal one of these exploiters swords and turn it for 100 athena levels? I better log back in and start looking

    This post is not in any way supported by info from rare or any of their staff. It is simply an opinion piece and to spark discussion on the topic. There's no clear yes or no from rare in regards to if you can or cannot interact with anything remotely to do with it, that also includes selling the exploited Swords. I won't tell you to do anything nor will I tell you not to do anything. Play at your own risk.

  • @hoot4565

    I can’t believe exploits are still a problem in this game. There literally is NO progression. (other than buying supplies maybe) The whole point of the game is to fairly earn rep and gold for cosmetics you can flex. I don’t exploit because every time I do in other games it just makes it boring once the rush of watching your money go up is gone.

    People simply don't think about that and just have the money signs in their eyes. As you say in a game of only cosmetic progression, if you just get everything then you now have nothing. You'd have this in games like GTA where people would try and find hackers that drop infinite money. Cool now you can buy everything and now you have no incentive to do anything for profit. Likewise SoT is a very casual game and not everyone is in it for the long haul. People that aren't that committed might see a means to make hundreds of millions and go all in, they'll have that fun and be done with it whether or not they get banned or just drop it.

    Tbh I hope Rare bans or suspends thousands for this
    (Or maybe takes away gold from them) because they are taking the game’s core gameplay value and trashing it.

    As I stated previously I don't think banning thousands or even suspending thousands is a good idea for an exploit like this. It doesn't harm anyone that doesn't want to involve themselves with it. unless they also ban people selling exploited swords, as that means people that would be stealing legit swords can only find exploited swords instead. With how widespread the issue is they would be banning just far too many people. Steamcharts says 24 hour peak of 19k and that obviously doesn't include xbox or playstation. I think they would be having to ban a substantial amount of their current playerbase if they throw the book at literally everyone who even did it once. I personally do not believe any form of exploiting should be punishable unless the sole use is to gain nothing but interrupt other players, for example if there was an exploit that crashed servers, which has no gains and only used to annoy. Despite that I'm sure there is definitely a possibility they look to punish those that went completely overboard with it.

    I Do think that rather than banning players it would be a much greater idea to severely cut their gold and reputation of the affected trading companies, and reset any commendations that could possibly have been boosted. That would show that what they did is not tolerated while also not being as flat as a permanent ban or even temporary ban. They'd still have everything they own and all their commendation progress, they'd just now need to work up their rep normally and get gold like all of us do. They could also potentially look at what cosmetics the accounts have purchased since the season came out and remove them, meaning they don't get to keep anything that was paid for with exploited gold.

    I understand why people might cheat in PvP but this is just another level

    Nah, cheating is severely worse than this. Using external software to gain an advantage either means you're doing it to win fights you are at risk of losing, which therefore means someone loses a fight they should have won; or it means cheating purely to harass other players. The latter is often the case as once they lose their main account they stop caring about progression and just do it for the fun of doing it, not to gain anything as their account will be done in days anyway. The biggest harm that comes from the widespread use of exploits is the games image, rather than harm to the players. If someone uses the BBlade to do 10 camps it doesn't really matter to you if they get 10 or 1000 streak. If you were going to ignore them then you're ignoring them, if you were going to fight them, now you get a bigger payout. If Rare punish for selling stolen exploited swords then this would the main case for it affecting innocent players, as they would either be forced to not sell something that would be fine to sell if it hadn't been exploited, or they would sell it thinking its fine and be punished essentially for what someone else did.

  • @frogfish12 said in Burning Blade Exploit may have lasting effects on Season 13's Content:

    @wolfmanbush
    Absolutely. I'm more trying to think through how they could even do it? I really don't see them banning quite literally everyone who had done it even once because that's simply too many people. Every account banned is one less person that could spend in the emporium, and banning for relatively tame use of it seems like a poor business decision. Especially when again there's just so many people that are doing this right now, whether or not they're doing 10 rituals or 1000. I wonder where they would put a cut-off on it in terms of how much you could get away with. As far as I know we've only had one big ban wave which occurred in 2020 at the Start of Season 1. Since then we've only had the Veil Ban-wave of which they only banned the extreme use of.

    I'm never around to get people banned, my lane is encouraging people to stay off that path.

    Multiple things are going on at once. Sot players have been pushing for more enforcement against cheaters while many have been cheating the system on the pve side. Rare is likely getting tired of seeing their seasons turning into cheesefests that are full of exploits that they clearly don't want happening.

    People are riding on "they won't ban pve exploits" "there are too many of us to ban" "it's on the devs to fix it", etc etc

    At some point this is going to escalate to a situation where they try to get things under control.

    What can the individual do? Keep it clean, encourage others to keep it clean. Don't enable friends, don't feel overly confident about wrong-doing. What people are doing is objectively wrong, the environment is being harmed because of it, it's not a secure position.

    An act that is specifically and intentionally mass producing something that goes against the design is a clear ToS violation. Whether it's 18 people or 5k that catch a ban nobody really wants to be one of them.

  • @wolfmanbush

    I'm never around to get people banned, my lane is encouraging people to stay off that path.

    Rare is likely getting tired of seeing their seasons turning into cheesefests that are full of exploits that they clearly don't want happening.

    I agree with both, I am also rarely in the mindset that people should be banned unless they are cheating or doing forms of blatant harassment. However I do think that some responsibility does need to fall on Rare. Clearly something is wrong with how these exploits, bugs, flaws, lack of balance, etc keeps managing to get into the Live game. Whether that's not enough Insider testing, not enough Internal testing, testing in the wrong areas, etc.

    Like if there's a weapon in a room full of people, someone could use that weapon to hurt someone. Clearly whoever picks it up is at fault, but you cant ignore the fact the weapon shouldn't even be there in the first place.

    Likewise I think an issue of equal importance is Rare's capability to fix the issues once they arise. It took what over a year for anti-cheat after Hourglass? Anti-cheat that could literally be turned off when it first came out. And then a couple months later a huge amount of the Anti-cheat has been bypassed and we're almost back where we started. The rate at which people can break the game seems to be much faster than the rate Rare can fix it. Are they maybe being too ambitious and biting off more than they can chew?

  • @frogfish12 said in Burning Blade Exploit may have lasting effects on Season 13's Content:

    @wolfmanbush

    I'm never around to get people banned, my lane is encouraging people to stay off that path.

    Rare is likely getting tired of seeing their seasons turning into cheesefests that are full of exploits that they clearly don't want happening.

    I agree with both, I am also rarely in the mindset that people should be banned unless they are cheating or doing forms of blatant harassment. However I do think that some responsibility does need to fall on Rare. Clearly something is wrong with how these exploits, bugs, flaws, lack of balance, etc keeps managing to get into the Live game. Whether that's not enough Insider testing, not enough Internal testing, testing in the wrong areas, etc.

    Like if there's a weapon in a room full of people, someone could use that weapon to hurt someone. Clearly whoever picks it up is at fault, but you cant ignore the fact the weapon shouldn't even be there in the first place.

    Likewise I think an issue of equal importance is Rare's capability to fix the issues once they arise. It took what over a year for anti-cheat after Hourglass? Anti-cheat that could literally be turned off when it first came out. And then a couple months later a huge amount of the Anti-cheat has been bypassed and we're almost back where we started. The rate at which people can break the game seems to be much faster than the rate Rare can fix it. Are they maybe being too ambitious and biting off more than they can chew?

    Intent matters to me.

    The dev's intent on the topic is to create a balanced and fair season. I give them more wiggle room because the intent is not malicious or grossly inconsiderate of others.

    Players that engage in this at extreme amounts intend to do wrong and are inconsiderate of others. Doesn't make them bad people but it does lead to issues that they create and intentionally participate in.

    It's a game, nobody is a terrible person over being obnoxious and inconsiderate in a video game but people are responsible for their actions.

    Things should get fixed quicker imo, some of this stuff lasts way too long imo. It doesn't change that people are choosing to do things that they know they should not be doing.

    It's important for people to hold themselves accountable because then they don't have to end up being someone that wanders around trying to mislead and make up stories about why they were banned.

  • @wolfmanbush

    Yea. fully agree with all of that.

  • @hoot4565 Devs cant fix the trash community they've fostered.

  • @wolfmanbush said in Burning Blade Exploit may have lasting effects on Season 13's Content:

    "Doesn't make them bad people."

    Yes it does.

  • Exploits like this are going to continue to be a problem because Rare is slow to act to fix it (I'm sure they could disable this event immediately if they wanted), and no one gets punished.

    The ones who abuse it get to keep their gains, the loophole gets fixed, and everyone else has to do it the hard way.

    At the very least they should be resetting progress for the abusers. Maybe a yellowbeard to go with it. And they need to talk about it publically. I think they said they'd do something about the sea fort exploiting the last time but there was absolutely no follow up. How many were caught, how they determined punishments, what would be happening with future incidents, etc.

  • this is a situation purely of rares doing. if you dont ban people for cheating people will continue to cheat, then people that weren't willing to cheat because of fear of punishment will cheat, then people seeing lots of people cheat will cheat because they feel like its widespread and acceptable / they have to do it to be on a level playing field. its really not that deep

  • @greatfailure82 Catering to streaming/influence culture doesn't help. The whole mess including the devs value views more than the game itself. I've literally seen streamers cheating live on stream and laughing about it, "if you're not cheating you're not trying". its endemic to the game now because the devs didn't squash it when the game started getting traction around shrouded spoils.

  • Where it gets messy is if someone playing legitimately turns in a sword from a crew exploiting the event, their account will show the skewed numbers as well and could be punished simply for turning in the wrong piece of loot. I don't follow the exploits, I simply don't want to know because I find cheating, especially in a game like this incredibly obnoxious. I don't know what a good solution would be because everyone would claim innocence or ignorance and any conversation would be hijacked by those "wrongfully banned".

  • @ostara-mk said in Burning Blade Exploit may have lasting effects on Season 13's Content:

    Where it gets messy is if someone playing legitimately turns in a sword from a crew exploiting the event, their account will show the skewed numbers as well and could be punished simply for turning in the wrong piece of loot. I don't follow the exploits, I simply don't want to know because I find cheating, especially in a game like this incredibly obnoxious. I don't know what a good solution would be because everyone would claim innocence or ignorance and any conversation would be hijacked by those "wrongfully banned".

    Rollbacks for all involved and then they can go from there with the accounts that did it to the extremes.

    It's not difficult to tell what people are doing at all from a data point of view it just depends on how much useful data they actually collect and how organized it is so that they can do something effective with the data.

    I could just look at someone's captaincy stats and have a pretty accurate read on how someone plays the game depending on what is low and what is high and what looks off, etc.

    Internal data makes that way way easier to determine if it exists.

    If they can't do rollbacks for this or that reason then I think that should change because the only thing that will work is people wasting their time. Obviously many aren't scared of bans or they wouldn't do it, make it a waste of their time. Temp bans only work if that progress/profit is removed as well.

    People enthusiastically wanted a 3rd party anti-cheat for the game (largely for pvp). It's only consistent to have a process for rolling back cheating on the pve side as well. The idea that pvp is somehow more important than pve in terms of cheating is heavily flawed imo. It's a game with pvp and pve in risk/reward.

    People having an ego about pvp but liking pve cheese shouldn't change how the game is maintained. Maintaining the integrity and fair play of both is necessary and important in a game like this.

  • @frogfish12
    What I said about PvP wasn’t justifying the use of cheats I simply said that I can understand why certain (annoying) people like using cheats to watch others rage and overall have a worse day. It’s just a constant among some of the toxic slime PvP games attract. But I don’t understand why a casual player would enjoy a money glitch. It’s a VIDEOGAME and after all your in game accomplishments are, in the long run, immaterial. I always thought the fun in grind/progression focused games was in the grind.
    I have played quite a few grindy games and often the reason I stopped playing was because I finished whatever main grind I was focused on. Looking back the time spent grinding was 1000x better than having the “accomplishment” completed.

    Honestly tho I don’t care too much. I met a PS5 player day 9 of release with Dark Adventure ship sails. “You can’t beat the no-lifers” is a pretty good motto for games like this because again, I would rather take months to even get PL than finish the game in a day.
    Maybe I’m overestimating the mindset and morals of the game’s community, maybe I just enjoy games differently but I can never understand serious exploiters who press a few buttons to finish the game.

  • 96 levels of Athena for one sword. Kinda makes Athena voyages the biggest joke on non cheese pirates. Demotivation engaged.

  • Hey, I can confirm that the exploit is just too “simple”. My teammates and I were able to take over a BB today for the first time since the start of the season last Thursday. We knew from a screenshot that there was probably an exploit, but not how it works... Well, when we all pressed the button at the same time in the treasure chamber, we got to Lv3 instead of Lv1... Needless to say, we didn't do it again after that, but I can imagine how quickly people in general found this bug and now I'm no longer surprised that there were so many Burning Blades with a high value.
    I also heard from an SoT partner that there is probably another method to achieve much higher values and I don't even want to know how it works...
    Now of course you could discuss it - do you recognize me and my crew members who have tried it once? Or anyone who has tried it several times? Or simply everyone?
    And can Rare recognize who has achieved a streak organically and who hasn't?
    (By the way, we did 7 more camps as normal and then voted off)
    )

  • @onedeviousdog said in Burning Blade Exploit may have lasting effects on Season 13's Content:

    96 levels of Athena for one sword. Kinda makes Athena voyages the biggest joke on non cheese pirates. Demotivation engaged.

    Its the problem with designing a game with streamer focus as first priority, average real person players with lives and jobs and other hobbies who aren't trying to make the game their job get it in the booty.

  • Looking for a server with a free BB, we came across 5 BBs with over 150 rituals. On closer inspection, we saw one who had done 50 rituals in 1. We went to see him, to take captures to report him, and in addition to glitch abuse, we also noticed that he was deliberately cheating by being invisible.
    When I see that, I just want to throw up... WHAT'S THE POINT OF THIS DAMN ANTI CHEAT?

  • @d3adst1ck

    Exploits like this are going to continue to be a problem because Rare is slow to act to fix it (I'm sure they could disable this event immediately if they wanted), and no one gets punished.

    They can't disable this exploit because... what do you disable? S13 literally only added Skeleton Camps and the BBlade. If you disable Skeleton Camps then you only have the BBlade, and at that point it literally cannot do anything anyway.

    I think the best thing they could do right now to mitigate is to cap Ritual Streak at 6. That way legit players can still do all camps on the Server once and get a good payday, but it severely limits the exploiting. It would mean the comm for 8 streak 10 times is not progress-able until the issue is fixed. This would keep the majority of the Season and its commendations in tact with only a small part temporarily lost until it is fixed.

    The ones who abuse it get to keep their gains, the loophole gets fixed, and everyone else has to do it the hard way. At the very least they should be resetting progress for the abusers. Maybe a yellowbeard to go with it.

    I personally think nothing should be bannable if its possible within the boundaries of how the game currently works. The exception is an exploit that has no functional use for personal gain or fun, but is simply to ruin other experiences. An Example would be if you just could like Crash the Server by spamming a specific ladder on random Island number 6. Clearly not accidentally done, no personal gain, no fun, just to ruin the game. I'm also not including voice or text comms in that, obviously you can use those systems in ways that should be punishable.

    Punish the player by removing more than they gained. If they made 100 mill and maxed Reapers, reset their gold, remove all cosmetics they purchased since the season launched, and reset their Reapers and Gold Hoarders. Something like that. As the exploit did not do much to effect the experience of others and purely was a means to make big stacks quickly, I do not think a ban to restrict or remove their access to the game is warranted.

    And they need to talk about it publically. I think they said they'd do something about the sea fort exploiting the last time but there was absolutely no follow up. How many were caught, how they determined punishments, what would be happening with future incidents, etc.

    This is definitely something they need to do, they just are never transparent enough with us. As you say they need to acknowledge the exploit once it has been fixed, explain why it happened, explain how they are going to prevent it happening again, and what they did to those who used it. They keep wanting to just hide and act like nothing ever goes wrong, but we all know when things go wrong. They'd be better admitting a mistake and apologising and explaining how they are going to improve rather than keeping their mouths shut.

  • @greatfailure82

    this is a situation purely of rares doing. if you dont ban people for cheating people will continue to cheat, then people that weren't willing to cheat because of fear of punishment will cheat, then people seeing lots of people cheat will cheat because they feel like its widespread and acceptable / they have to do it to be on a level playing field. its really not that deep

    I mean for starters, exploiting isn't cheating, its exploiting. That's why they are two different words. But the idea does remain the same. That's why exploits like quickswap, x bucket, x shovel, and many more became so widespread. It was being used by literally everyone, including SoT Partners that broadcast themselves doing exploits and teaching it to players while having the Rare Seal of approval on their channel. People started using it because they seemingly had to and there was no consequence for using it.

    The solutions to that are;

    • Identify why issues make it to live game and hope to remedy them so less issues occur in the future.
    • Fix the issues quicker, or have a killswitch that allows you to temporarily disable things that are broken while you work on a fix
    • Punish the players that abuse issues in order to dissuade people from using any new ones that get discovered.

    Rare seem to have a very inconsistent track record on what they do and don't punish for making it hard for people to tell if a new thing will or won't be allowed. And due to the reason stated above if something seems useful, they are seeing a lot of people do it with no punishment, and it doesn't get removed quick, the majority of people are gonna think its fine and start doing it too, causing a cascade effect like we have with the Ritual exploit.

  • @wallyscag1817

    Catering to streaming/influence culture doesn't help. The whole mess including the devs value views more than the game itself. I've literally seen streamers cheating live on stream and laughing about it, "if you're not cheating you're not trying". its endemic to the game now because the devs didn't squash it when the game started getting traction around shrouded spoils.

    It is wild. I've SoT Partners post videos on their channels about new gold grinding methods and they are literally showcasing Season 11 voyage exploits in their hayday. Despite Rare having banned people for voyage exploits in Season 6. Unless the Partners asked Rare in the channels they have to do so if S11 voyage exploits will be bannable, and then only made videos with the knowledge they aren't putting their viewers at risk.

  • @ostara-mk

    Where it gets messy is if someone playing legitimately turns in a sword from a crew exploiting the event, their account will show the skewed numbers as well and could be punished simply for turning in the wrong piece of loot. I don't follow the exploits, I simply don't want to know because I find cheating, especially in a game like this incredibly obnoxious. I don't know what a good solution would be because everyone would claim innocence or ignorance and any conversation would be hijacked by those "wrongfully banned".

    The difference between the Burning Blade exploit and other Exploits we've had in the past is that for the most part, people stealing the Burning Blade from exploiting Crews will sell a Sword that literally means you stole it, rather than doing it yourself. Hopefully Rare just simply will not even look at Sword sales and will only look at the returning of the ship. They might just look at ''okay who made more than 2 million on a single item sell'' which would factor in both Sword and Ship Returns.

    You also have the issue of people setting their exploited Burning Blade open crew and then returning the ship, which would mean those innocent open crew joined players get punished. If they do punish for selling the sword you could have exploiters scuttling their ship in front of a freshspawn at an outpost and asking them to sell it, also putting that player at risk. I have heard of the open crew thing happening already so its not just a hypothetical now. And again with the Fish duplication example we saw, Rare have banned innocent players already due to exploiters tricking innocent players.

    I don't know what a good solution would be because everyone would claim innocence or ignorance and any conversation would be hijacked by those "wrongfully banned".

    The issue is the lack of transparency of what is or isn't punishable, or the inconsistency of what they do punish for. They have a simple ''Exploits are against the rules'' rule which should cover all bases. But as exploits vary in strength, functionality, and damage; they don't enforce punishment on every single case, and they don't explain why. ie again things like Quickswap which was an exploit didn't see any punishment because they would have to ban probably 30% of their playerbase including most of their Partnered Streamers, but it is an exploit and against the rules. Then you have extended Sword lunge which again was objectively an exploit, but rather than just removing like Quickswap they go ahead and decide to adopt it as an unintended mechanic, despite it being an exploit and against the rules. They just need to be more transparent about the actions they take, more clear on the rules, and more consistent on what they do.

  • @wolfmanbush

    It's not difficult to tell what people are doing at all from a data point of view it just depends on how much useful data they actually collect and how organized it is so that they can do something effective with the data.

    If I had a Nickel for every time there was delays on people receiving gold/rep and they said that all would be rewarded in time, only for them to say ''Sorry we couldn't do it, heres 20k for anyone who logged in today''; I'd have quite a lot of Nickels.

  • @hoot4565

    What I said about PvP wasn’t justifying the use of cheats I simply said that I can understand why certain (annoying) people like using cheats to watch others rage and overall have a worse day. It’s just a constant among some of the toxic slime PvP games attract.

    For sure, you can understand the motivation behind why someone does something without agreeing with it or thinking its fine, I know that's what you meant.

    But I don’t understand why a casual player would enjoy a money glitch. It’s a VIDEOGAME and after all your in game accomplishments are, in the long run, immaterial. I always thought the fun in grind/progression focused games was in the grind.

    If you don't plan on playing a game religiously and are just there to have fun, If you are making 2k from your voyages and see a means to make multi-millions, the very thought is just exciting, especially if you're on a ship with the boys. That atmosphere very much does effect how people play games if they are solo or not. They think about all those cosmetics they can buy, how cool they could make their ship look etc. I don't even think they'll even consider the levelling and just think of the gold. People like me and you can look at it rationally and see that its not worth doing, not only due to the risk but because it just removes your reason to keep playing. But someone who doesn't care about SoT will just see the money.

    Honestly tho I don’t care too much. I met a PS5 player day 9 of release with Dark Adventure ship sails. “You can’t beat the no-lifers” is a pretty good motto for games like this because again, I would rather take months to even get PL than finish the game in a day.

    You can play on PS5 while also being an existing player. Whether or not thats actually a brand new player with 8.7 mill sails during a time period with little exploits is probably more a case of it being an existing player who also now plays on PS5.

  • @jade-sturm

    Hey, I can confirm that the exploit is just too “simple”. My teammates and I were able to take over a BB today for the first time since the start of the season last Thursday. We knew from a screenshot that there was probably an exploit, but not how it works... Well, when we all pressed the button at the same time in the treasure chamber, we got to Lv3 instead of Lv1... Needless to say, we didn't do it again after that, but I can imagine how quickly people in general found this bug and now I'm no longer surprised that there were so many Burning Blades with a high value.

    I wouldn't recommend admitting to use of the exploit, nor would I recommend explaining how the exploit works. But I can tell you... That one you did is not the way people are getting over 100, there is a much stronger one.

    Now of course you could discuss it - do you recognize me and my crew members who have tried it once? Or anyone who has tried it several times? Or simply everyone?

    I personally would not do literally anything to you or your crew. I don't know where my cap would be on who does and doesn't deserve a punishment, but regardless I would say literally nobody deserves a ban or even permanent ban.

    And can Rare recognize who has achieved a streak organically and who hasn't?

    This is also something I have heard a lot of people afraid of. People who on Day 1 before the exploits were discovered who went on huge streaks hitting absurd numbers ie over 50, putting in real legit work over hours and hours and hours. They're worried that they're gonna get lumped in with the exploiters now.

  • @frogfish12 said in Burning Blade Exploit may have lasting effects on Season 13's Content:

    @wolfmanbush

    It's not difficult to tell what people are doing at all from a data point of view it just depends on how much useful data they actually collect and how organized it is so that they can do something effective with the data.

    If I had a Nickel for every time there was delays on people receiving gold/rep and they said that all would be rewarded in time, only for them to say ''Sorry we couldn't do it, heres 20k for anyone who logged in today''; I'd have quite a lot of Nickels.

    One is a lack of a record because of a flaw and the other is a successfully recorded action.

    Example

    If I kill 10 megs in a day and they don't successfully record there is nothing for Rare to do to give me credit for what I've done.

    If I kill 300 megs and they record then Rare could set up a system to flag that as a red flag for an exploit. If I kill 300+ megs every day for a couple of weeks then I would be habitually exploiting and that data would have been successfully collected.

    At 300 in a day that is clearly not intentional so that should be rolled back. Doing it over and over again would justify more enforcement as well.

    For the new content they could just do the math and set a number high enough to not interfere with organic play (including more extreme and high hour organic play) and flag all the stuff that is not possible organically.

    Can give plenty of wiggle room for organic play, even extreme organic play, and can still catch most of the exploiters that are having the most harmful impact on the game.

  • @zeyrniyx

    Looking for a server with a free BB, we came across 5 BBs with over 150 rituals. On closer inspection, we saw one who had done 50 rituals in 1. We went to see him, to take captures to report him, and in addition to glitch abuse, we also noticed that he was deliberately cheating by being invisible.

    The exploit truly has become so widespread, every other server I see someone with over 10 and I'm like eh do I even care to steal 10 anymore?

    When I see that, I just want to throw up... WHAT'S THE POINT OF THIS DAMN ANTI CHEAT?

    The Anti-cheat suffered the fate we all suspected. It was added, removed most of the cheats, but then the Cheat developers update to work around the anti-cheat, and the anti-cheat developers are not quick enough to then re-remove the cheats faster than the Cheat Developers. Cheater vs Developer is always an Arms race in every game with a cheating issue, but it is clear SoT is losing that battle, its hardly even a battle, its a slaughter.

  • @frogfish12 exploiting 100% is cheating. to even try to claim otherwise is wild to me. you can argue over the severity of the cheat or you could argue if there aware its even a cheat at all but its intellectually dishonest to say it isn't cheating

  • @greatfailure82

    Rare let's exploiting happen though, they have stated that they don't ban people based on exploits which I find silly if you hardcore abuse something.

    Overall, they need to re-roll money or just remove every transaction in the game where people have gotten over 1M+ in a single sell since at that point it's clearly exploited. The fact they haven't talked about it or done anything at all is extremely concerning. Just the other day on Twitter they posted "How do you like Season 13?" like everything is fine. Crazy.

  • @itz-majman i know, doesn't mean its not cheating however unless they say thats how its intended to be used

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