Guild Leaders access to information

  • I haven't been an Active Guild Leader preferring to be an active guild member.

    It has come to my notice that Guild Leaders through a browser connection can view what each guild member has/is doing for the guild.

    It appears that even if you are offline your guild activity is not hidden from the Leader.

    If you are playing but showing offline, the GL knows you are sailing:-

    1. For their guild
    2. Sailing but not showing as
      sailing for their guild.

    This is way too much information to be giving other players about other players.

    It has resulted in Guild Leaders removing players from their Guild.

    I find this level of abuse of power given to GL had led to appalling behaviour towards many players who have to balance life, work and play.

    Rare you need to remove this invasion of privacy immediately.

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  • I am a guild leader. Where do I find this information?

    I can see my guild chronicle but the information contained there is the same as the information contained on the in game guild chronicle. I am not seeing any new information.

    I think how guild leaders use the information contained in the guild chronicle varies from guild to guild. Some competitive guilds may use it to ensure that people are sailing regularly and that they not sailing for any other guilds, others may use it to offer support to guild members who are not sailing for some reason and some guilds may not use it at all.

    If the guild you join is abusing their power, switch to a different guild or start your own.

  • On the contrary, there should be more information about how many levels and hours each player has completed, it would be easier to set clear rules for participation and to be able to manage your guild.

    There is currently not enough information to detect an inactive player, you have to scour ship chronicles or do it entirely based on speculation, this makes the decision to expel someone less fair, but that doesn't mean it won't be done anymore.

    You are the one who must decide whether to join a guild with progression rules.

  • @phantaxus When you sail, a pop up appears on top left corner '' XXXXXX (ship) has set sail'' or something like that.

  • Normally, I'd say I can see both sides to this one. From a company POV you want to make sure your company is performing well. Which requires each organ function as intended for its health.

    But on the other hand, these are not organs, they are people playing a game. Not to mention guilds aren't competitive. Your company could survive if it was only you and you never played again. Then at the other end of the success spectrum we have alliance servers cheesing guilds with solo sloopers. Even somewhere more in the middle you have HG loss farming. So what does success even mean when you are a good faith participant?

    I think the bigger issue here is a social issue that has nothing to do with the game or its design. Exclusive Membership Guilds. Star Citizen and ESO both allow you to join multiple guilds and I have about 3k hours between the two; More if you include all the time I spent managing an inclusive Bounty Hunter network - and during that time, I had to have many talks with "exclusive" guild leaders, either as a member on ESO or as an ambassador on SC. One thing they all have in common is that they want control. In SC, when I'd approach organizations like that, they'd immediately get hostile and say I was poaching them by offering mediation services between various hunting orgs which obviously clash when there is a single star system to inhabit. Not to mention the ones that did join, needed some kind of negotiation to happen first where I would pledge myself as an ally (bc I obviously didn't speak for members). Furthermore, those types would try to take it over with alts and all kinds of other stuff.

    On ESO, they make demands of what you must sell, how often you must attend meetings to discuss... ?????, what level you must be, I've even had someone kick me from one of these Walmart guilds because I argued with him about generic build advice he was giving me by using math and he didn't like how that conversation ended. You can get the gist by watching Joel explain how gas siphoning works to Ellie in the Live Action Last of Us.

    People can say what they will about it, but these experiences are why I am only ever in my own guild in games. I don't want people to kick me out because I'm not sourcing them enough or because they will eventually realize they don't like me. I do tend to join additional guilds but have been avoiding it in SoT bc I wouldn't contribute to them ever since sailing with them doesn't boost them.

    We already see this sort of petty tyranny happening in Sea of Thieves. On the one hand, people should be able to decide who is allowed inside of their house. But on the other hand, why the heck can I still not kick someone from Open Crew off of my sloop if that's actually the priority? How is the current design of letting Guild Leaders kick people after they contribute different from letting a captain kick someone after they contribute? I guarantee you that it'll be faster for them to do another FotD stack than it'll be for them to get another guild to 100.

  • @zig-zag-ltu only while I am playing the game and it does not tell me who took the ship out.

    I do agree with @Lleorb more information about who is sailing and when would be extremely useful.

    I would like to be able to pull up for each guild member a graph of when they sailed, how long they sailed for and money handed in. I could then use this to make an informed decision about what action, if any, to take.

    Tools not rules, give us the tools and let the guilds decide how to use them

    Ultimately, as a guild you want to finish in the top 25%, Lion's Pride is in a position to do that.

  • @phantaxus That's true. I mean this ability is a double edged sword, but we have to keep it real the pros of this outweigh the cons. And having such tools will at least keep everything in game and nobody innocent will ever get unfair treatment, because of it.

    As an example:

    Guilds just came out, some players already filled their ranks, others are still recruiting pirates.

    So let's say after 3 months, your guild is full and 6 months down the line, Rare releases this feature.

    Which shows, that out of 24 people, 5 of them were the major contributors, 16 people contributed some and 3 people did nothing at all. So if you have other pirates wanting to join you, why should you keep people who do nothing at all? Why should someone who plays get kicked, because of false assumptions? Obviously someone will keep their IRL friends even if they don't play, but thats fair. I can't imagine someone logging on 6 months after not playing, acting surprised that they are no longer a part of a guild. They can just easily create their own too.

    On the positive side, it would be awesome to have some competition inside the guild, dish out promotions according to their dedication etc.

    I personally could give less bananas about guilds, but just trying to reflect to my younger self when i was part of a clan playing Runescape and thinking what would have made sense then :D

  • @zig-zag-ltu That's something I forgot to consider in my response; Real Estate in a SoT guild is limited.

  • @jackieboombox said in Guild Leaders access to information:

    I haven't been an Active Guild Leader preferring to be an active guild member.

    It has come to my notice that Guild Leaders through a browser connection can view what each guild member has/is doing for the guild.

    It appears that even if you are offline your guild activity is not hidden from the Leader.

    If you are playing but showing offline, the GL knows you are sailing:-

    1. For their guild
    2. Sailing but not showing as
      sailing for their guild.

    This is way too much information to be giving other players about other players.

    It has resulted in Guild Leaders removing players from their Guild.

    I find this level of abuse of power given to GL had led to appalling behaviour towards many players who have to balance life, work and play.

    Rare you need to remove this invasion of privacy immediately.

    Guilds should be a collection of like minded players. If people are going to remove others go and find a guild that respects your time. The guild im in is full and we all know eachother and all bs together frequently. Some play SoT daily, some play monthly. No one is at risk of getting kicked as its for fun.

  • I'm going to have to agree with @JackieBoomBox in the original post for the most part. I think it's generally OK for Guild Leaders to see who is (or is not) contributing to their Guild in order to manage membership.

    They do NOT need any insight (albeit indirect) into other Guilds, including as to how a member of their Guild might be sailing in another one. All that the GL needs to know is information directly pertaining to their own Guild. A member either IS sailing for the GLs Guild, or they're not. No more info needed.

    Not sure about the undermining of a user's choice in "showing offline." I don't believe GLs or any other members of the Guild NEED to know anything - in real time - other than that another ship is busy earning XP for the Guild. I can see where people might 'want' to know who's on a ship, but I'm not sure it's worth intruding into another player's privacy in real time. [I have a particular example in mind as to why this could be a bad thing, but it's not my info to share]

    Bottom line: unless there's a compelling reason why such info is NEEDED, it is always best to err in the direction of protecting people's privacy. Rare seems to be leaning in the wrong direction on this one.

  • @crowedhunter the last paragraph about kicking is something that Rare should tough on a litte bit.

  • @captain-coel
    GL's will run their guilds however they want and I'm sure eventually there will be consequences for the way some people conduct themselves. That's not really my issue.

    It's one of privacy and if I am in one or more Guilds, as are most players, what you do for a guild I'm sure goes down as Guild stats. If I can be viewed as sailing whilst off line and a GL sees I'm not sailing a guild boat and therefore assumes I'm sailing for another guild or myself then that's an invasion of privacy.

    Many Guild members were removed from a guild I was in 😄 on this access to data on other players. That's not right. What we do when we are not sailing a guild boat is OUR business. Certainly not the business of other players. 👍

  • @lleorb
    My issue isn't how GL run their guilds but what information they may have access to.

    If you want privacy that may not be the case in SOT once you join a guild.

  • @crowedhunter

    I have seen the worse and the best from GL's but they can and do run their guilds how they want. It's not the issue I have. If you work and get paid I guess most employers feel they own you whilst at work...

    Work doesn't own you 24/7 and what you do when your not sailing for a Guild shouldn't in any way be available to the Guild Leaders.

    GL have been clear in some groups about what they say they can see on Edge Browser looking somewhere and are crystal they will kick you if you sail out and not for them.

    This information if it's correct should not be visible between players.

    I totally accept that Guilds will log and hold information on how their guild is progressing and I'm ok with what you do showing up.

    What I'm doing when I'm not sailing for a Guild should be my information and mine alone.

    I think the set sail marker when another guild member takes out a ship is a great idea, it gives the feeling your not alone. 🤗

  • @z0rk

    Is there a way to get Rare to respond to this thread. If Guild Leaders are saying they can see you are active when off line, we as players who have set Privacy options for a reason. Off line whilst playing is definitely a privacy issue.

    I think Rare need to clarify what can be seen, rectify privacy issues and if Guild Leaders are actively lying to players...... isn't that using an exploit in the game to gain an unfair advantage 🤣

    For anyone who remembers The Walking Dead, "I am Negan" comes to mind 😂

    I do think Rare should hide from all players what you are doing or might be doing whilst off line. If you choose to sail on line but not in a Guild boat where your GL will actively remove you if you're not producing for them is your choice.

    Guild Leaders who have those stats and follow them religiously then I guess there's no hope for them of having a life outside SOT and that's there choice.

    Privacy has to be the individuals to control.

  • @jackieboombox said in Guild Leaders access to information:

    @z0rk

    Is there a way to get Rare to respond to this thread. If Guild Leaders are saying they can see you are active when off line, we as players who have set Privacy options for a reason. Off line whilst playing is definitely a privacy issue.

    I think Rare need to clarify what can be seen, rectify privacy issues and if Guild Leaders are actively lying to players...... isn't that using an exploit in the game to gain an unfair advantage 🤣

    For anyone who remembers The Walking Dead, "I am Negan" comes to mind 😂

    I do think Rare should hide from all players what you are doing or might be doing whilst off line. If you choose to sail on line but not in a Guild boat where your GL will actively remove you if you're not producing for them is your choice.

    Guild Leaders who have those stats and follow them religiously then I guess there's no hope for them of having a life outside SOT and that's there choice.

    Privacy has to be the individuals to control.

    Same way as you would with any other issues.... https://support.seaofthieves.com

    As this is an issue for Support and not the Forums, I'll be dropping anchor here.

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