If reward for progress is too limited in PvE, people who play this game for PvE might also lose interest.
[mod edit]
Safe Seas Rewards Too Low
@raft2c7c said in Safe Seas Rewards Too Low:
If reward for progress is too limited in PvE, people who play this game for PvE might also lose interest.
[mod edit]
Perhaps it's not a game for them then?
Crosshair is not an accessibility feature, it's a design one.
I really don't understand why people want to get the participation in an easy mode to be rewarded equally? Rare is adding this so people who want to play with their kids would have a space. It's for people who are fresh new pirates and just want to learn the mechanics so they could comfortably make the transition into the game that's been out for 5 years. They are not turning this into PVE singleplayer.
Maybe if the game will loose popularity and people will stop playing it, in 2-3 years time this will happen. Perhaps worth to check back then if this is not enough for you guys.
Rare has really made a great decision with safer seas. I hope they will address the problem of forming a crew properly next. So content like FoF/ FOTD even Hourglass could be enjoyed by all equal minded players instead of this open crew randomness.
@raft2c7c said in Safe Seas Rewards Too Low:
If reward for progress is too limited in PvE, people who play this game for PvE might also lose interest.
[mod edit]
Its not intended exclusively as a pve mode, the restrictions are in place because they want people to either be enticed to the main game for much better rewards, or if they manage to some how get 40 levels at 30% the rate without any emissary, then they will have to go to the main game if they want to progress.
It is very intentional that its that way, and anyone who isnt into the risk of a pvpve game may have just gotten into something without looking into it enough. Considering the most popular content of this game that anyone watches is steals or combat, it shows they didnt look at any gameplay if they didnt expect it.
"Perhaps it's not a game for them then?"
If a game sucks too much, is it better not to play? If life sucks too much, is it better not live life? I think it is better to make it possible for everyone to play in life and in game instead of telling people to stop playing or to stop living.
[mod edit]
"I really don't understand why people want to get the participation in an easy mode to be rewarded equally? "
No one said that people in easy mode should be rewarded equally. I think it should be lower than the High Seas as well. But by how much exactly? That's hard to say. 10%? 30%? 50%? 70%? This safer seas is designed for families to play together. Some of us are fine with no rewards and are happy with simply finishing a voyage successfully. The exploration is enough. Some of us need token rewards to keep playing. I was just stating the obvious that if it's too unrewarding, they either venture into High Seas, or leave the game if they lost interest because they want PvE only. I think it's something to be monitored over time, and decide whether to maintain or tweak the progression reward %.
@raft2c7c said in Safe Seas Rewards Too Low:
"Perhaps it's not a game for them then?"
If a game sucks too much, is it better not to play? If life sucks too much, is it better not live life? I think it is better to make it possible for everyone to play in life and in game instead of telling people to stop playing or to stop living.
[mod edit]
"I really don't understand why people want to get the participation in an easy mode to be rewarded equally? "
No one said that people in easy mode should be rewarded equally. I think it should be lower than the High Seas as well. But by how much exactly? That's hard to say. 10%? 30%? 50%? 70%? This safer seas is designed for families to play together. Some of us are fine with no rewards and are happy with simply finishing a voyage successfully. The exploration is enough. Some of us need token rewards to keep playing. I was just stating the obvious that if it's too unrewarding, they either venture into High Seas, or leave the game if they lost interest because they want PvE only. I think it's something to be monitored over time, and decide whether to maintain or tweak the progression reward %.
It's what it is. It's your choice my friend. Safer seas will provide a place for people who don't enjoy themselves on normal servers and help new pirates. If you are not planning on meeting other players, what's the difference how much gold a chest will be worth?
These design options are so the game doesn't commit a suicide. The developers had a vision and created a game following it which attracted thousands of players (don't wanna say millions but the official numbers are there) the game became a hit on Xbox. You understand that if Devs allowed this game to be played as a single player, it would inflict massive damage to main servers, which potentially would spiral down to this games un timely demise. I doubt they would be willing to take this route.
Also. Please for your own sake. Go and play on an alliance server for several days. Try - Ashen Alliance on discord.
See how after few sessions the game starts to feel boring and shallow knowing there is no threat and it's just a glorified fetch quest. Go to A, fight mobs, collect loot and go to B to sell. That's it.
@raft2c7c pleace don't take it personal but as hard as it is not all games are for everbody. There is no need for excesive drama around it.
I will repeat if SS are too work as intended steping stone and traing ground there must be a solid and valid reason to leave them for High Seas.
And I hope they will work well as it.
@zig-zag-ltu said in Safe Seas Rewards Too Low:
Imagine being able to achieve a competitive rank in CSGO or some other game playing against bots, but you would only get up to xxxxx rank....I mean wouldn't make sense right?
Bad take, considering CS has SBMM while SoT does not.
@linowx I get it. But you understand why I wrote it.
The company progress is called reputation, because (in my opinion) you get actual reputation(respect) from them(role playing) for delivering results in hostile seas to those factions. How you go about it is up to you, the more creative the easier, but the most straight forward approach will attract other pirates.
So allowing someone to reach high reputation levels in a faction when all you did was fight bots and sail around uncontested is not what this game is about.
That's why I compared to CSGO ranks ( I Know it's not the best example at all)
@zig-zag-ltu It's a complicated matter. People who achieved PL in the early days will also argue about how easy and meaningless it is these days, with emissary flags, community days, etc. After gaming became mainstream, the average percentage of casual players skyrocketed. Obviously they bring in sizable amounts of cash, but they also have limited time, so catch-up mechanics became way more widespread. Most GaaS games focus on endgame content, so there's that too.
I'm pretty much playing strictly PvE games these days, but I do believe 30% is fair. Some other restrictions not so much, but I understand what this mode is supposed to be and I'm just glad they gave us the opportunity to get to know the game.
@raft2c7c said in Safe Seas Rewards Too Low:
I think it is better to make it possible for everyone to play in life and in game instead of telling people to stop playing or to stop living.
A game doesnt compare remotely to life. What you seem to misunderstand about games here is that no game can be made to be fun for everyone. Many games have tried to cram in everything they can that is popular from different games, or tried to implement everything that everyone wants, but that doesnt make a game everyone wants, it makes a game so convoluted and so messy that NO ONE likes it. Often resulting in bad reviews actively complaining about "it stole this idea from this game!".
Its best to make a game that some people dont like, as long as the target audience does like it. Because as stated, you cant make a game that everyone will like. Its impossible to make something everyone will like.
@pigs-healthcare Sea of Thieves isn't exclusively combat/PvP, so it's not out of the realm of possibility that some people aren't about combat.
Also, there's not a single other game out there, that's like Sea of Thieves that provides a unique and fun sailing/pirate experience.
@pigs-healthcare because people are interested in the game!? PvP only makes 5% of the Content, the game has to offer and people dont want the 5% Content to destroy their experience with the 95% content.
If they dont release real PvE Servers with lower restrictions, then the game is going to die even faster. I mean, the servers are empty as hell, the negative reviews in the Xbox Store only come down to PvP as a bad thing and more players are leaving then coming to SoT.
Content creators get less views etc. The game could just offer an option to play because an option is never bad.
I mean, everyone can easily play on alliance servers but some discords want money from the players. So why does Rare not want to use this opportunity? So many people would pay lots of money for private servers to enjoy PvE or fight big PvP Battles...giving players/customers a choice is NEVER a bad thing. :)
@goldsmen there are so many PvPvE shared world games which give the players a choice how to play the game. Or let them make private lobbies or rent servers without restrictions.
To name the most popular ones...GTAV, ARK and Rust. And i would say that every game i named is more popular and succesfull then SoT...BECAUSE....they give players a damn choice.
To explain it more simply:
Rare is a company.
The most important thing for a company is to make money...its even the only sense of a company lol.
Who gives you money?
The customers, exactly!
Players=Customers.
How do you get more customers/players?
By giving them different offers and dont treat a group of customers/players like [mod edit]I'm pretty relaxed because i know the realities of capitalism and that Rare doesnt even have a choice. I dont know if its going to happen in december or in one or four years but i know it will happen. That is a logical certainty
@rambobrad Personally i would have like it more if they had made it 33%, so it would be easier to calculate how much you would have got if you played on the High Seas, since you then only need to multiply by 3 to get the normal amount. Because if you can easily calculate what you otherwise would have gotten, people will see more what they missed out and could be lured more to the HS by that.
But for the rest the amount seems fine by me.
Nothing about how you appear to prefer to play is changing. High Seas is going to be right there, as it has always existed. Why you are concerned with what someone might be doing, literally alone, in a Safer Seas session makes zero sense.
Guys, Commendations are not going to be helpful on resumes. "Income" on Safer Sea is not real-world money. This is a video game. You really don't need to worry about how other people are playing it, especially when you are probably never, ever going to encounter them.
@merlin-mav-k Im not sure if you pinged the wrong person or misread my message. I never said safer seas is bad or shouldnt be a thing, i simply said what the devs did was with intent because that kind of play isnt how the devs designed the game nor wanted it to be ever.
@merlin-mav-k said in Safe Seas Rewards Too Low:
Guys, Commendations are not going to be helpful on resumes. "Income" on Safer Sea is not real-world money. This is a video game.
Exactly, so why are you getting all bent because different rewards are spanned on different difficulty modes?
For example, people have been whining and using WoW for so long as a reason that PVE servers should be a thing. Well good news, Y'all realize that the PVP mode gives more XP, gold, and unlock additional quests and content for people taking the additional risk of encountering people from the other faction right?
Literally same thing here, Rare has always given opportunity to scale the risk vs reward factor of the game. Frankly, we get way too much gold from everything and the 30% value should be the normal value, and the high sea should be considered being an additional amount to factor the risk, not the other way around.
"Yeah but it's all cosmetics, why do you care?"
Why do you care then?
Even WoW has different cosmetic sets scaling with the difficulty of activities you do, whether PVP or PVE. If you want the goodies, do the according challenges to get them and stop whining. Why do people always asks to get the bars lowered instead of simply achieving the challenges put in front of them?@kakaroto9766 said in Safe Seas Rewards Too Low:
In my opinion it should be even lower. 30% is too high. Maybe 15-20%?
- If you just play to enjoy the game and the talltales. Awesome! Thats what this mode is for
- If you play for cosmetics...Cosmetics are the only way the game can show progression. And the ones you get trough gold show your experience and adventures. You earn it by playing risky and beating other people. If you can get the same other people get without the risk...Whats the point of cool cosmetics? If safe seas give a lot of money, then cosmetics mean nothing, if the noob who never plays PVP can easily get the same cosmetic the PVP toplord has.
One point I agree with you is: Rare does NOTHING about toxic/racist/abusive players and cheaters. They havent even bothered to add an in-game report tool. This has contributed to a more toxic community than it needs to be, as people can do and say almost anything without getting banned.
And also, the skill difference tends to be quite wide, particularly between new players and players who used to live in Arena. Now they might use hourglass, but honestly hourglass feels like another failed arena. Probably even worse.
I used to have a similar mindset to this but over time my perspective has shifted. Cosmetics don't actually mean anything in this game, there are so many people playing adventure that are terrible at PvP that have still earned all the cosmetics even the PvP specific ones. Making money safely in this game isn't hard at all and I'd argue that the richest people in this game are usually the ones that are the worst at PvP... Because they never do the PvP and they only ever grind gold which is 90% PvE content. I learned this very early on in the games life, when seeing a Pirate Legend wasn't something you'd "respect" or "fear" but you'd instead see them as a free meal. Literally every time we'd see a Pirate Legend we'd just absolutely wipe the floor with them, and that was the ultimate reward at the time, PL. So eventually you begin to realise that players "achievements" mean nothing. The cool things are just cool if you like the way they look, not because of the way they were earned.
Take the ghost and skeleton curse for instance. I came back to the game for a while when season 9 dropped during a double exp weekend or whatever, I hadn't played for a few months at that point and HG was new to me as I didn't bother with S8. So I hop into the HG, run into multiple ships that are crewed by people with the skelly and ghost curse and it's not even a contest. Isn't that cosmetic supposed to prove they are good at PvP? Even in the open sea on a solo sloop, a brigantine full of skelly cursed guys failed to sink me and it's not like I'm exceptional at the game or anything.
Point is, the only thing those cosmetics represent is 'time spent in game' and that's it. What does it matter to us how they spent their time in the game? Whether they only ever pirated from other people, or they did everything while running away from other ships, or they only ever used a rowboat, or they did everything on alliance servers, or they just server hopped to find events, what does any of it actually matter?@linowx said in Safe Seas Rewards Too Low:
@zig-zag-ltu It's a complicated matter. People who achieved PL in the early days will also argue about how easy and meaningless it is these days, with emissary flags, community days, etc. After gaming became mainstream, the average percentage of casual players skyrocketed. Obviously they bring in sizable amounts of cash, but they also have limited time, so catch-up mechanics became way more widespread. Most GaaS games focus on endgame content, so there's that too.
I'm pretty much playing strictly PvE games these days, but I do believe 30% is fair. Some other restrictions not so much, but I understand what this mode is supposed to be and I'm just glad they gave us the opportunity to get to know the game.
People that argue PL is too easy and meaningless to earn these days don't know what they are talking about. I was playing from the very start and I can tell you that PL was always easy and meaningless. The only difference now is that it's faster, which doesn't make it any "easier" it's just less tedious. PL was so meaningless that when you seen one back in the day it meant free loot, because you knew they didn't know how to PvP... No achievement or cosmetic you have proves anything about how skilled you are in this game, you can earn everything by just putting in enough time and that's fine, but people have to stop acting like these drip fed rewards are special because "they took risks". This games content is like 90% PvE if not more, I can't blame anybody for wanting to take part in that content without being bothered by PvP when there is no incentive to engage in the PvP (unless you enjoy it), and I just don't care if they earned their cosmetics in a PvE server when people in PvP servers earned their cosmetics in the exact same way.
@housand2894 said in Safe Seas Rewards Too Low:
I appreciate your response and clarification. I see, in that case I wasn't clear on what 'Safer Seas' is intended to be and I believe my feedback still stands as far as making it clearer in marketing and implementation that this is intended to be an extended starter area rather than a sole PvE alternative.
As for me, it sounds like sounds like it is the developers intent to not provide content for players not interested in combat, so I'll set off in search of warmer waters.
Appreciate the help and I wish you favorable winds!
That’s exactly right if you don’t like combat you are a second rate SoT player in the eyes of the devs.
I hope safer seas backfires in a major way and people don’t let Rare get away with it.
It’s a slap in the face to those who have asked for the ability to play the game without PvP.
Rare has no shame.
@unstoppabledork said in Safe Seas Rewards Too Low:
That’s exactly right if you don’t like combat you are a second rate SoT player in the eyes of the devs.
I hope safer seas backfires in a major way and people don’t let Rare get away with it.
It’s a slap in the face to those who have asked for the ability to play the game without PvP.
Rare has no shame.
I don't like pvp in this game. For different reasons but I don't like it. I've done it a whole lot because it's part of the game design.
There are lots of things I don't enjoy in this game but I work around it because that's what people do in life, including video games. Stick to what works and work around what doesn't.
Most people aren't even that fond of pvp in this game but they still enjoy the game overall. That can be seen on servers every day.
People setting expectations that others have no obligations to abide by and feeling entitled within the experience is where things so often become negative and unpleasant. People work around things they don't enjoy in this game every day.
You and I have thousands of hours. We have pushed through the growing pains and ended up still liking the environment.
Many other players won’t make it this far especially if they are primarily solo players and that’s because playing solo against full crews can be freaking hard and yet Rare thinks that putting solos on servers with full crews is perfectly fine.
As far as my beef with safer seas goes it’s because they are removing the social element of encountering other crews for no reason.
Finally a mode with PvP disabled so players can feel free to go out and interact with other crews without any fear of being attacked or robbed and the devs think nah they don’t need to have any social on safer seas.
I’m sorry but SoT without other crews is not the game I love it’s not the shared world. I don’t need or desire to fight every crew on the seas and I would have enjoyed totally separate progression between high and safer seas so I could choose my experience be it cooperative or competitive at my leisure.
@unstoppabledork said in Safe Seas Rewards Too Low:
You and I have thousands of hours. We have pushed through the growing pains and ended up still liking the environment.
Many other players won’t make it this far especially if they are primarily solo players and that’s because playing solo against full crews can be freaking hard and yet Rare thinks that putting solos on servers with full crews is perfectly fine.
As far as my beef with safer seas goes it’s because they are removing the social element of encountering other crews for no reason.
Finally a mode with PvP disabled so players can feel free to go out and interact with other crews without any fear of being attacked or robbed and the devs think nah they don’t need to have any social on safer seas.
I’m sorry but SoT without other crews is not the game I love it’s not the shared world. I don’t need or desire to fight every crew on the seas and I would have enjoyed totally separate progression between high and safer seas so I could choose my experience be it cooperative or competitive at my leisure.
I can save people hundreds and thousands of hours of frustration from personal experience which is a large part of why I participate on the forums.
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Drop the expectations, it amplifies frustration, leads to disappointment which leads to resentment
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Reign in ego, taking L's is a part of life and learning. It's nothing to fight against, there is no winning in ego battles, it costs time, lots and lots of time and time is more valuable.
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Walk away, let it be and let it go. Unpleasant opponents? unpleasant situation? Time for a new server. It's quick, it's easy, and it's new opportunity.
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Appreciation, respect, and humility- with the environment, with opponents. Everything has value with these core principles. The losses, the frustrations, the irritations, the tough times.
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Consistency and efficiency. Nobody can take this from someone in this game.
The game is still designed to get people onto high seas and with the above people can reach their full potential, even as players that don't enjoy pvp.
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You can tell that to someone who doesn’t like PvP until you’re blue in the face and you still may not change their perspective.
Because believe it or not people typically cannot be forced to do anything they don’t want to do.
Someone who doesn’t like PvP but does like PvE should be just as appreciated and welcome as a player as someone who only enjoys PvP.
And forcing someone who doesn’t like PvP on to a server with PvP is wrong.
If growing the playerbase is the goal, forcing people to do something they don’t want to do shouldn’t be a thing.
Instead people should be free to choose their experience when they play SoT.
@unstoppabledork said in Safe Seas Rewards Too Low:
You can tell that to someone who doesn’t like PvP until you’re blue in the face and you still may not change their perspective.
Because believe it or not people typically cannot be forced to do anything they don’t want to do.
Someone who doesn’t like PvP but does like PvE should be just as appreciated and welcome as a player as someone who only enjoys PvP.
And forcing someone who doesn’t like PvP on to a server with PvP is wrong.
If growing the playerbase is the goal, forcing people to do something they don’t want to do shouldn’t be a thing.
Instead people should be free to choose their experience when they play SoT.
That's really just feeling entitled to control another's art, design, and vision.
It's one thing to push for qol and/or balance in a design that is being offered but it's an entirely different thing to demand that the foundation be changed to cater to incompatible preference.
No it’s not that.
It’s simply understanding the needs of your customers and responding to them to facilitate additional growth.
The OG vision isn’t going anywhere it’s the high seas but not everybody wants that experience and that’s okay.
There’s a more mild more friendly version of the game but it’s still a shared world just without PvP.
It will make the high seas more PvP oriented than now which is more healthy for that environment because the people who play there are supposed to want and enjoy PvP.
And it will give the players who hate PvP a way to still love and enjoy Sea of Thieves which there’s a ton of PvE to enjoy and it’s best enjoyed with other crews in the world.
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