Bounties

How easy it is to force a newbie into killing a crew enough times, they be hunted down just to be locked up.

I don't understand the point you're trying to make here.

So..solo players wouldn't have a chance?

There are plenty of solo players out there who can outplay a full galleon on a regular basis as far as I know.

Based on their suggestion, it'd actually give solo players more of an opportunity to use their ship's brig... As it stands, solo players have literally zero use for a brig on their ship (since there's never anybody to vote in there).

That's a big part of my reasoning yes. On top of that I've never really see full crews utilize their brigs either.

@b4njax this is one of those ideas that sounds good on paper but sounds bad when added to adventure if they gave us a halo/ cod style team death match mode I could see it working there where killing the mvp on opponents team gives bonus points and works as a comeback mechanic.

Can you go into more detail about why you think it would be bad for adventure? At it's best though I could see the bounty trying to negotiate an alliance or something to not get turned in or be trying to ask their captors "what's happening, is that my crew? Oh you guys are done for now. Bla bla bla".

@b4njax I think this sort of system would be so difficult to implement something that can't be farmed or abused that it really isn't worth it.

Can't see it being too difficult. Teleporting actors in and out of the brig via button prompts. Some stat-tracking on a map item. To me it seems like a natural counterpoint to really aggressive pvp of Reaper crews. I dunno, can you give more detail on how you reckon it could be abused, aside from the example I mentioned above?

The form you suggest is inherently biased, as it punishes pvp by having an additional deterrent.

Considering there would be likely commendations for such a system as well as the flex of seeing your own wanted poster go up and up based on your pvp, I would have thought it would encourage pvp more than deter it. Likewise I think it would encourage pvp to naturally come to the pvp-er. It definitely would offer up opportunities to interact with other crews with banter, negotiations and chases.

The sloop no longer has a brig. Locking up players from other crews would be abused and sounds even less fun than being spawn camped.

I genuinely forgot the sloop has no brig, that's a solid point.

I DON'T GO TO TURN YOU IN.

So you troll to purposely ruin my game. Cool, thanks, I can just leave game and load in to a new one so you get nothing or my crew can chase you down. Either way I have been thinking about that problem and here's my solution... there could either be a time limit for turning someone in or the bounty has a button prompt on the brig door and progress bar to break out. If caught doing so, their escape progress resets so they have to be sneaky about it and the captor has to try keep an eye on them, which again, could provide more opportunity for the crew interactions I crave, actual banter/negotiations in the name of shenanigans.

P.S. Thanks to everyone who're engaging with this topic.

The bounty istelf is not a bad idea , but never on a player. A bounty on AI character sounds better and even more competitive , being visible on the map like a reaper's chest but to be delivered at any outpost.

The best way to do this more simply is to make Reapers increasingly valuable to sink (and/or the same for NON-REAPERS that are nonetheless sinking other ships and selling captured/stolen treasure). If you sink other players AS a Reaper you increase your notoriety and attract a valuable bounty in the game world, drawing the attention of the authorities, etc. and not only via world map visibility as it is now.

With each Reaper emissary grade they become a more valuable (to the rest of the players in the game world) target, worth bounty gold and at (a) locale(s) OTHER than The Reaper's Hideout (maybe a new Naval Fort, etc.). Additionally, or separately, there could be NPC Naval Ships that are dispatched and patrol for them with increasing intent and capability per emissary grade. These can also be made to be durable/feared opponents. There is no reason they have to be potatoes.

There could be a similar ticker for just selling "stolen" treasure, with thresholds (so you don't only have to be a Reaper to attract a bounty). There is always a chance of people just marauding and sinking without stealing and selling I suppose but maybe there could be a mechanic with the Naval Ships to factor that in, via the sunk players appealing to the authorities with some manner of proof, etc..

It would apply at least a little more friction to the most aggressive play. As it is, the pressure is almost completely on the attacked.

The bounty itself is not a bad idea , but never on a player. A bounty on AI character sounds better and even more competitive , being visible on the map like a reaper's chest but to be delivered at any outpost.

Dunno. I would fear that's dumbing it down and making it competitive when it doesn't have to be. If that's how you'd prefer a bounty system to work then fair enough but I personally disagree. That said you did make me realise that the bounty's crewmates should be able to see the ship of the captors on their map table. Would you agree?

The best way to do this more simply is to make Reapers increasingly valuable to sink (and/or the same for NON-REAPERS that are nonetheless sinking other ships and selling captured/stolen treasure)...

I disagree with a lot of this but I definitely would agree that Reaper bounties should be more valuable based on emissary grade and the like! Giving emissary grades the ability to have an effect on the bounty worth would make it far more likely for bounties to happen. NPC Naval ships and forts sounds cool but I would fear it'll make a bounty system way more difficult to implement as it would require far more time and resources to develop.

@hiradc said in Bounties:

@b4njax I think this sort of system would be so difficult to implement something that can't be farmed or abused that it really isn't worth it.

The form you suggest is inherently biased, as it punishes pvp by having an additional deterrent.

The fundamental failing of all bounty suggestions is always the same.

How do you prevent friends from killing each other for the bounty?

Solve that are there are many ways to do bounty, but no one has ever solved that problem.

@merlin-mav-k This would be really cool. Like at the quest board there were bounties for the players themselves based on this notoriety score. Independent from the emissary flag so they can go incognito too.

If hunters get aggressive about seeking their prey, then their bounties go up too.

@foambreaker said in Bounties:

@hiradc said in Bounties:

@b4njax I think this sort of system would be so difficult to implement something that can't be farmed or abused that it really isn't worth it.

The form you suggest is inherently biased, as it punishes pvp by having an additional deterrent.

The fundamental failing of all bounty suggestions is always the same.

How do you prevent friends from killing each other for the bounty?

Solve that are there are many ways to do bounty, but no one has ever solved that problem.

I mean, why is that so hard to solve? You can't collect a bounty for someone on your own crew. Boom.

"But what about alliance servers?" They're already breaking the spirit of the game, what's one more log for the pyre?

@b4njax said in Bounties:

I DON'T GO TO TURN YOU IN.

So you troll to purposely ruin my game. Cool, thanks, I can just leave game and load in to a new one so you get nothing or my crew can chase you down.

Cool, so someone gets my bounty, they capture me, and I just leave/re-join and their voyage gets ruined.

@lordqulex said in Bounties:

@foambreaker said in Bounties:

@hiradc said in Bounties:

@b4njax I think this sort of system would be so difficult to implement something that can't be farmed or abused that it really isn't worth it.

The form you suggest is inherently biased, as it punishes pvp by having an additional deterrent.

The fundamental failing of all bounty suggestions is always the same.

How do you prevent friends from killing each other for the bounty?

Solve that are there are many ways to do bounty, but no one has ever solved that problem.

I mean, why is that so hard to solve? You can't collect a bounty for someone on your own crew. Boom.

"But what about alliance servers?" They're already breaking the spirit of the game, what's one more log for the pyre?

As if it is hard to get on a server with friends.

@crowedhunter said in Bounties:

@merlin-mav-k This would be really cool. Like at the quest board there were bounties for the players themselves based on this notoriety score. Independent from the emissary flag so they can go incognito too.

If hunters get aggressive about seeking their prey, then their bounties go up too.

And then there are those who take pride in a high bounty and intentionally do things to annoy people.

Not hypothetical, happens often in games that have this sort of thing.

@foambreaker said in Bounties:

@lordqulex said in Bounties:

@foambreaker said in Bounties:

@hiradc said in Bounties:

@b4njax I think this sort of system would be so difficult to implement something that can't be farmed or abused that it really isn't worth it.

The form you suggest is inherently biased, as it punishes pvp by having an additional deterrent.

The fundamental failing of all bounty suggestions is always the same.

How do you prevent friends from killing each other for the bounty?

Solve that are there are many ways to do bounty, but no one has ever solved that problem.

I mean, why is that so hard to solve? You can't collect a bounty for someone on your own crew. Boom.

"But what about alliance servers?" They're already breaking the spirit of the game, what's one more log for the pyre?

As if it is hard to get on a server with friends.

My crew has never successfully done it, not when we had six of us trying for two brigs anyway...

Removing player agency in a shared open world game would be a terrible idea.

@lordqulex
I've never gotten it to work either and have had 3 people trying to find me for 30 minutes all in the same region. Doesn't seem like it's worth trying at that point.

@foambreaker Well yeah, I'd expect that. But the really bad ones already do it without incentive and impunity. At least this would send people after them. And once they hit max bounty, surely there are people looking for them even if they only showed up bc they were doing Hourglass and happened to check the board.

Maybe the player with a bounty drops a unique skull when they die that's only worth having to the person with the bounty. That way it can't be cheesed and players keep their agency that they only seem to care about when it's their own.

In all honesty, a bounty system can't work in the game in its current state for one big reason: server fluidity.

• You pull a bounty on me, and I dive for hourglass; your bounty is null and void.
• You pull a bounty on me and I log off; your bounty is null and void.
• You pull a bounty on me and I start a tall tale through the portal; your bounty is null and void.

The biggest challenge to a bounty system isn't player agency or discouraging piracy in a pirate game or even griefers, it's the fact that you cannot control my presence in the game. That alone really makes pirate bounties absolutely untenable. And if it were NPC bounties, i.e. go here kill this guy/ship, how is that functionally any different than order of souls voyages?

How do you prevent friends from killing each other for the bounty?

What, like being betrayed by your crewmates or something?
I'd think that's a non-issue since what I'm suggesting is in the form of a voyage that would actually make use of the quest board. You can't just happen upon a bounty and be able to just brig them. Gotta have their wanted poster from accepting the voyage first, maybe even manacles as a quest item that actually enables the capture interaction.

Even if you are on the voyage you'd still have to find the bounty based on the region they were last spotted in, then fight them, down them and essentially revive them into your brig before they can offer their soul to the ferryman. Then you have to get to an outpost before either their crew, if any, can rescue them or the bounty escapes like how I suggested they could in my earlier response. Potentially the bounty could even try to take out your ship while they're at it, making them even more elusive and upping their bounty.

As for the potential in it being farmed...not really unless that server happens to be super aggressive between all ships because for a bounty to even present itself, the player has to have done enough to actually be bounty worthy and then if they get caught and turned it, they aren't a bounty anymore until they once again get on a roll with pvp kills.

Cool, so someone gets my bounty, they capture me, and I just leave/re-join and their voyage gets ruined.

I mean yeah, you could and honestly I don't think there's much that can be done to prevent that. It's bad form and basically removes your own bounty so yeah, people are bound to do it but ruining the game for others is nothing new. I'd argue that when engaged with wholeheartedly, it adds way more good to the game for both sides than bad when being cheesed in such a way.

Removing player agency in a shared open world game would be a terrible idea.

I agree and I'm not sure how it applies. I'm probably being dumb but can you elaborate on this?

Maybe the player with a bounty drops a unique skull when they die that's only worth having to the person with the bounty.

A nice idea but defeats the purpose of trying to find a purpose for the brig. Also very problematic because that technically means someone can try steal back their own skull and claim their own bounty which is kinda dumb in my opinion.

In all honesty, a bounty system can't work in the game in its current state for one big reason: server fluidity.

This is the best argument against bounties I've seen so far. Still though, I would see those examples as reasonable. Very anti-climatic, anti-pvp (which I thought was something plenty of people want more of) and overall a shame but ultimately not that big a deal. Having some decent rewards for maintaining a high bounty could help deter such things. For the most part though, I wouldn't think it be needed to inform a player when they become a bounty, let alone know if an approaching ship is after it. In fact that would give players even more reason to keep an eye out on the quest board in case their bounty shows up.

I just genuinely don't see the point in ducking a bounty anyways. Especially if you're playing Reaper.

@b4njax said in Bounties:

Cool, so someone gets my bounty, they capture me, and I just leave/re-join and their voyage gets ruined.

I mean yeah, you could and honestly I don't think there's much that can be done to prevent that. It's bad form and basically removes your own bounty so yeah, people are bound to do it but ruining the game for others is nothing new. I'd argue that when engaged with wholeheartedly, it adds way more good to the game for both sides than bad when being cheesed in such a way.

Hypothetically I'm a pirate that has an hour or two to play a night. I'll even be generous and say I'm a solo slooper so I don't spend the first 15-30 minutes finding a crew on discord. I log in, someone pulls my bounty, I get captured, and they have to sail me to an outpost to "turn in" the bounty. I'm simply supposed to wait in someone else's brig so I don't feel the guilt of "ruining the game for others"? Bit of a double-standard there isn't it, asking me forfeit 20% of my available play time in someone else's brig so I don't ruin their experience?

@pithyrumble This was an issue in UO, you could kill someone on a ship, take their ship and sail around. They could not resuscitate unless you let them off on land. They could not use the plank to leave the ship either.

@lordqulex Hence why it would need that escape mechanic I've been talking about. To reiterate, while in the brig, you could be trying to lockpick the door. There should be a progress bar and it should take some time so you're not just escaping immediately. Either way you could be able to have some fun banter with your captors.

@pithyrumble I am trying to consider as many angles as I can so please don't assume I'm not.
But yeah I can see your point there and it's a prime example of why we can't have nice things.

What if, instead of being tied up they drop a skull that they can reclaim later after they die and the hunter has to take the skull back to outpost? That's basically the same. Maybe OoS are the ones interested.

@crowedhunter Reminder. Never said anything about any tying up and my whole point for bounties is to make use of the brig cell on the bigger ships. So yeah, making it skull based is not the same as what I'm suggesting. OoS have those kind of voyages already.

@miserenz said in Bounties:

@foambreaker said in Bounties:

I did then you complained about losing 1% of the value of the loot.

Nope, you just didn't read right and I stopped bothering to reply.