Rare is not going to listen to you. 30% was to try to appease you.

no struggle compared to when we first played

everyone struggles in their time it's just not always for the same reasons

new players that play organically have had increased opportunity but the struggle didn't go anywhere it just changes. They have faced a far wider skill gap, they have faced environmental contradictions like spammable chainshots. They have faced an amplified content creation environment that significantly impacts organic inexperience.

The old timer narrative of "back in my day" on struggle is dismissive of the reality of current day inexperience and harshness that is constant in some part of participation in the environment.

The new and future generations of pirates will still go through it, in one way or another. Their significance just isn't necessarily the same as ours. It's a lot more similar than it is different in the end.

And the cat's in the cradle and the silver spoon

@amendelwyr said in Rare is not going to listen to you. 30% was to try to appease you.:

@wolfmanbush *"With" the silver spoon." ;)

But, to the point, yes, we're not going to see changes around this aspect coming from us. Rare have invested in making these changes, what is capable of being completed honestly will be extremely boring if only ever done alone for as long as it is going to be run.

The time expenditure will be 10x longer. You'll get more High Seas exclusive stuff, Safer Seas will be Tall Tales; and anyone that does anything else there will not see the benefits transition well.

Harry Chapin used "and" in the song as it was a personal reference when writing the lyrics.

@purplefiftytwo said in Rare is not going to listen to you. 30% was to try to appease you.:

@wolfmanbush said in Rare is not going to listen to you. 30% was to try to appease you.:

the struggle didn't go anywhere it just changes.

Yeah, it got shorter. Obviously you disagree, but by the metric provided by the OP to demonstrate the actual point of their post it objectively got shorter.

I'm generally aware of how much veteran players have cheesed/coordinated their way through much of it.

There is a reason the only real universal significance in the environment is the shrouded ghost and to a lesser degree the box of secrets. Everything else got massively cheesed by veteran players, many of which are now saying this this will be harming significance over stuff like vaults.

The concerns and criticisms are valid but this environment has overall cheesed everything out of universal significance. An ultra rare megalodon is the only thing veteran players couldn't reduce in significance, even though they try in meg hunts through coordination.

Cofs didn't even matter on the veteran side of play in this game other than player content because veteran players coordinate to get everything done instantly and then criticize there being nothing to do.

Long term players that actually play organically and as intended these days are more and more rare.

Commendations should definitely be limited. Also I think the level cap is too high but only because it's going to keep new players in safer seas way too long, making the shock of (now slightly sweatier) high seas that much worse.

I think the rep cap should be lvl 15. That way new players are encouraged to go to high seas and experiment with the emissary system.

@jazzach said in Rare is not going to listen to you. 30% was to try to appease you.:

Commendations should definitely be limited. Also I think the level cap is too high but only because it's going to keep new players in safer seas way too long, making the shock of (now slightly sweatier) high seas that much worse.

I think the rep cap should be lvl 15. That way new players are encouraged to go to high seas and experiment with the emissary system.

I dunno why people just assume people have no drive in adventure.

Many of us would be miserable in there, not because of only our experience but because we want/wanted to experience the excitement of what is becoming the high seas.

Just because the player base has leaned more casual than some of us doesn't mean they don't have any desire to experience all that the game offers.

It's gonna be boring in there for many and we all know it, some will prefer it and there is nothing wrong with that but people that actually are going to invest in this game are gonna work themselves into high seas to chase what isn't in safer seas.

There are all kinds of comms that can't get done in there, there likely will be new content that also tempts them to go high seas over time.

The only difference about a lot of the newer players is they aren't as intense in style, that doesn't mean they are just gonna sit there all the time. They will work up an appetite for more adventure and then they will do stuff on the high seas.

@wolfmanbush

I know it will be boring which is precisely why I suggest these changes to push players to HS sooner rather than later. Lvl 40 with no emissary and %30 rep is going to be brutally slow and I fear players will get bored before they've even really tried to play the game.

Honestly, instead of safer seas they should've just made a better way to LFG in game.

@jazzach said in Rare is not going to listen to you. 30% was to try to appease you.:

@wolfmanbush

I know it will be boring which is precisely why I suggest these changes to push players to HS sooner rather than later. Lvl 40 with no emissary and %30 rep is going to be brutally slow and I fear players will get bored before they've even really tried to play the game.

Honestly, instead of safer seas they should've just made a better way to LFG in game.

I trust in my experience and gut a lot but I also am willing to put some trust in the process if it makes sense.

They designed it based on their internal data, I know the organic environment very very well but they have the numbers. Since the restrictions are fair in design I think it's fair to put trust in the numbers being based on solid data.

I don't think anyone inherently knows best just because of power and data but imperfection, risk, and chances are a part of life. Even though that data has been piratically heartbreaking for me at times (lol) I have trust in the specifics of design.

It's not a matter of I think anyone knows best, I just gotta go with the best chance the environment has. That's why I've been supportive of it.

@jazzach said in Rare is not going to listen to you. 30% was to try to appease you.:

@wolfmanbush

I know it will be boring which is precisely why I suggest these changes to push players to HS sooner rather than later. Lvl 40 with no emissary and %30 rep is going to be brutally slow and I fear players will get bored before they've even really tried to play the game.

Honestly, instead of safer seas they should've just made a better way to LFG in game.

You don't want to push them, because people enjoy it way more if it's their own choice then if they were pushed.

And if you think people would already get tired by the 30% rep and money, then you don't even need to disable/limit commendations, so your argumentation isn't even logical there.

@magus104 said in Rare is not going to listen to you. 30% was to try to appease you.:

It really doesn't matter. Everyones panicked and crying of a mode no one will play anyway.

Even as it is Safer Seas is a tall tale mode but for who? I have been on a puzzle game kick lately just Finished Quern, Obduction, got the Myst remastered since I hadn't played since the original. Then I was watching some lets plays of those on youtube and was thinking... Would these people be interested in the tall tales in Sea of Thieves? And the answer? Probably not. The check point system stinks, Having to start at the outpost every time you start a session and retread ground stinks, no other ships around so every time you leave port you are guaranteed a pve spawn stinks. Insanely frequent skeleton, ocean crawler, phantom spawns when you are busy trying to solve a puzzle stinks. The fact that when you die your tall tale book resets to page 1 and there's no fast way to flip back to the last page stinks.

This mode is dead before it even starts. I think they will see Safer Seas get a huge spike in people checking it out. But within a week or 2 it will have a huge plummet in active players. Kinda like Sea of Thieves twitch numbers every time they start drops and the drops end.

Without improvements to the functionality of tall tales and the checkpoint system even for the casuals this mode is trying to target it wouldn't be appealing

Too much pessimism

this will have too much substance to fail as it's designed

at worst it just won't do quite as well as they hoped but that's far from a fail.

It's like HG. HG has all the issues I posted it would have before it was released. Lots of repeat fights, cheating accusations, doesn't bring in the casual appeal but it's had tremendously positive effects for the overall environment.

That is likely what will happen here, it's not gonna be perfect, it'll have some issues, but it's likely gonna have positive effects on the overall environment.

The feedback hasn't even been that bad on the announcement. It's had some solid support even with some experienced players. I think many have concerns about it but overall it should work out.

@europa4033 When I first started playing on Day One, there were no harpoons.

You had to literally climb the ladder with your loot, over and over and over, until you were done loading your loot on board.

Complaining about a basic quality of life update isn't the same as Rare ignoring veteran players for LITERAL YEARS when it comes to fixing hitreg or implementing a better anti-cheat.

You're just making a ridiculously disingenuous argument with that logic.

Veteran players get ignored while the newbies, who will probably leave the game in a few weeks time, get their hopes and dreams fulfilled.

The criticism is 100% valid when the community as a whole has been waiting for fixes to hit reg for at least 3 years now.

I don't care about the concept of Safer Seas, I care about the principle that Rare is ignoring their most dedicated players over entitled newbies who refuse to learn the basics of combat.

@goofycs-811 said in Rare is not going to listen to you. 30% was to try to appease you.:

@europa4033 When I first started playing on Day One, there were no harpoons.

You had to literally climb the ladder with your loot, over and over and over, until you were done loading your loot on board.

Complaining about a basic quality of life update isn't the same as Rare ignoring veteran players for LITERAL YEARS when it comes to fixing hitreg or implementing a better anti-cheat.

You're just making a ridiculously disingenuous argument with that logic.

Veteran players get ignored while the newbies, who will probably leave the game in a few weeks time, get their hopes and dreams fulfilled.

The criticism is 100% valid when the community as a whole has been waiting for fixes to hit reg for at least 3 years now.

I don't care about the concept of Safer Seas, I care about the principle that Rare is ignoring their most dedicated players over entitled newbies who refuse to learn the basics of combat.

Cheating is a part of literally every competitive part of anything in general and especially games.

Hit-reg is what it is. Consistent shooters have always experienced it and likely will for the rest of this game's life.

I personally think veteran players using entitled against others is distasteful given the actual history of SoT. We as an overall group that have been here a long time pulled up the rope constantly while others were trying to climb their way up.

It's a history of non-stop self serving (and catered) overindulgence.

There was always a cost to the environment for the hopping and the coordination and the features that serve quick action at a contradiction to risk/reward.

All that content people profited off of, all the clicks people collected while stealing more and more non-organically to get some attention socially.

They never owed anyone a non-organic experience. There has always been decent content added at the organic level but so many veteran players refused to play the game as it was designed. Good enough to take from but not good enough to invest in.

You speak of entitled when so many think they are better than the content designed for the organic experience. Everything that got released had to turn into cheesing it in 3 days to be some of the first to get the rewards.

They brought in HG, they are bringing in the new pvp thing.

Thousands of hours of play and people still think they are owed something, and new players are entitled?
People benefited financially and socially and everything in between for years from this game and that wasn't enough?

If people chose to spend the time always talking about how it wasn't enough, that's on them, it was a good run for a lot of us, even if some are stuck in the cycle of -never enough-

@wolfmanbush

There has never been any consequences for sinking another crew’s ship so of course the people who endlessly hop servers looking for quick high value targets/steals like a crew doing a world event get to farm casuals over and over and over and over and over again to no end.

Rare thinks this is a sustainable model they even have the audacity to call it “magical”.

It’s not magical. It’s predatory and unsustainable because eventually you run out of willing victims that grow tired of having their session ruined by veteran players hopping servers looking for targets.

Rare still to this moment thinks lesser of people who don’t enjoy PvP with their PvE hence all of the limitations associated with sailing on safer seas. It’s appalling.

All of the people stuck on this risk/reward, PvP always enabled vision have lost sight of what video games are supposed to be about which is fun and an escape from the challenges of everyday life.

Developers should let their players choose their experience and not punish or treat them lesser for it.

There is nothing wrong with people who enjoy the risk of sailing in a world where PvP is always enabled and where piracy is encouraged.

There is also nothing wrong with the people who don’t enjoy the risk of sailing in a world where PvP is always enabled and where piracy is encouraged.

You cannot force people to like something they don’t like.

How come players can choose to only PvP without any limitations or repercussions yet if someone wants to play without PvP they can’t enjoy the full game, their progress is nerfed by a whopping 70% and that doesn’t even factor in that emissary bonuses are disabled.

I’m sorry but safer seas with all the current restrictions is a huge slap in the face to all the players who requested a PvE mode and were denied it only to be given an extremely unfair, watered-down PvE mode later with the stated goal of being an entry point to the game where players can eventually choose to play with PvP enabled if they want access to the full game and without their progress being artificially slowed.

So again players are still FORCED to play on servers with PvP enabled.

The devs have not learned a single thing in five years about how people like what they like and aren’t going to change who they are or what they like just because a developer refuses to give them the ability to play and enjoy Sea of Thieves without PvP.

Sea of Thieves has been out for over five years and this dumb idea that the game cannot be enjoyed without PvP is still harming the title.

Of course it can be enjoyed without PvP and to go a step further this game could be enjoyed with other crews in a fully cooperative setting as opposed to just a single crew in a massive world by themselves.

Either way when the developers decide to start treating both ways of thinking equally ie that both PvEvP and PvE only are both 100% equally accepted ways to play and enjoy Sea of Thieves the game will be in the best place it possibly can be.

People should have the ability to choose their experience and not be punished for it.

People when and if they are ready can freely choose to sail on the high seas for the thrill, the excitement, greater rewards, PvP, whatever but let them make that choice on their own. Don’t make anyone feel forced to play on the high seas.

Stop thinking lesser of people who just want the opportunity to play and enjoy Sea of Thieves without PvP.

There’s nothing wrong with it. Not everybody likes the same things. It’s okay to not like PvP. Seriously it really is.

Make Sea of Thieves a game for everyone. Don’t penalize people for wanting a PvE only experience.

@woozyaphid78158 said in Rare is not going to listen to you. 30% was to try to appease you.:

The devs have not learned a single thing in five years about how people like what they like and aren’t going to change who they are or what they like just because a developer refuses to give them the ability to play and enjoy Sea of Thieves without PvP.

Make Sea of Thieves a game for everyone. Don’t penalize people for wanting a PvE only experience.

They've done many things I don't agree with and don't enjoy and don't think are good for the environment.

It's their game. I am a guest here. I don't consider myself a consumer because I got my money's worth a long long time ago.

I do not agree that incompatibility is owed compromise. In my view I am a part of what exists and not more than that. If the compatibility ends, if adapting and compromise are not in the cards it's all good.

It's taken a lot of effort for me to adapt to the more casual environment over the last few seasons. I chose to make it work for a while based on what they were offering. They don't owe me an experience that I want.

I always knew what was gonna have to happen eventually so for me it's all good. Maybe they will lean more into pve-only over time, I dunno, but I don't think people are owed it.

@wolfmanbush

It’s all on Rare for assuming that only offering one version of adventure mode PvEvP was the best thing to do for the health of the game when clearly that’s not the case and that’s understood now.

Maybe in five more years they will understand that PvE only and PvEvP should both be fully accepted and equally rewarding ways to play and enjoy the game.

Let the players choose their preferred way to be a pirate. I know a revolutionary thought.

@mopwieldinghedgehog

And maybe PvEvP isn’t a healthy genre long term.

Maybe it doesn’t have as broad as an appeal as a game with two or more modes.

Maybe start accepting facts half a decade into the journey.

For years you have put the needs and desires of the most skilled players who mostly only PvP above the needs and desires of the new, casual, old, young, uncoordinated, etc.

The wrong choice if you ask me.

@woozyaphid78158 said in Rare is not going to listen to you. 30% was to try to appease you.:

@wolfmanbush

It’s all on Rare for assuming that only offering one version of adventure mode PvEvP was the best thing to do for the health of the game when clearly that’s not the case and that’s understood now.

Maybe in five more years they will understand that PvE only and PvEvP should both be fully accepted and equally rewarding ways to play and enjoy the game.

Let the players choose their preferred way to be a pirate. I know a revolutionary thought.

It's entirely possible neither would have survived this long without people being at home for a few years and playing more games and watching more content.

They had/have a 10 year plan but a plan is just a plan. Timing played a significant role in the overall success of SoT.

Perhaps this compromise as it exists is just where it was meant to be all along, no real way to ever know.

@mopwieldinghedgehog

I know what I bought and it’s been skewed in favor of PvP since launch again to an almost predatory level.

The game is like a snake eating it’s own tail.

Eventually you run out of people willing to try/play it.

Now the devs have announced a PvE mode is coming and it’s flawed because they still value the forced PvP more.

My goal is to point out that if you’re taking as big of a risk as adding something you said you never would add to the game why on Earth are you punishing people for choosing to use it?

Are you mad?

Anybody who wanted to get good at the PvEvP version of Sea of Thieves has had 5 years to try it out… people have a billion gold. Loot doesn’t really matter to people who have stuck with the game.

Let the PvE’ers enjoy the dang game now.

@mopwieldinghedgehog

Really?

Crews of all sizes can sail on the same server.

No skill based matchmaking in adventure so the skill level of the crews you encounter is random.

Players can freely choose to leave a server to join a new server as many times as they want.

Ships can sink on a server unlimited times with no consequence unless they get server merged.

Cannons are extremely difficult to use effectively from all but close range for new and casual players.

Zero aim assist.

Players can contort their pirate’s body and hide very effectively on ships sometimes clipping through physical objects.

Reaper’s Bones is the only company that offers a bonus on all loot sold and it’s the PvP faction.

I could go on and on and on and on about how this game is heavily skewed in favor of those who have mastered PvP.

And guess what?

The people who have mastered PvP get to have all the fun while the middle and lower skilled players get dunked over and over again.

How is that magical or sustainable? Please tell me.

That is why it is so essential to ensure that the people who are on the PvEvP servers actually like PvP.

Something a lot of people just don’t get.

Yes, with determination and practice I think most people can get good enough to enjoy sailing on the high seas BUT only if they really want that for themselves.

If they hate PvP and always avoid it and have no interest in getting better they shouldn’t be forced on to the PvEvP servers.

You can’t force people to change if they don’t want to.

People who don’t like PvP may financially support the game just as much or more as someone who does like PvP.

Why treat them lesser as far as rewards and progression goes?

@woozyaphid78158 Hey, sport. I think you should look into a method for communication called "positive positioning". It would really help you get your point across.