PvP vs Pve fatigue

It's just not punishing to roam around with a freshly loaded-in ship.
You loose nothing.

You always spawn with the same resources, not too far away from the center of the map.
You can always come back, especially if you are raiding players trying to do world events or long voyages.

Today as non agressors my mate and I sailing a sloop, sank the same brig 4 times in a row - they just kept comming back. It go so booring at the end that my friend wanted to stop playing.

We decided to drop our loot and resource in the ocean and log out to play another game.

You'll do awesome in this game, it just takes some time to make sense of it all for your own journey.

I've been really enjoying this game with my friends

prioritize maintaining this, cherishing this, building on this
The wins, the losses, unfortunate encounters, this all comes and goes.
the gold happens over time, completing things happens over time

the time together, the fun together, maintaining those relationships as friends and as a crew
you're always winning in pirate life as long as you maintain that

the game is what it is in design, you won't change that
but you and your friends will do awesome by working on not focusing on the parts you don't like in the environment. Not letting it get to you as individuals and as a crew.

It's very common for people to lose their crew in this game over pvp frustrations, don't let it, fight to maintain your crew and the good times found together, pvp is just a risk of a sink of some loot loss, the real treasure is getting past that, together.

@wolfmanbush

Hey thank you for you warm response.

I'm very aware that there is ebs and flows to this game regarding your experience when you log in. And sometimes you'll have great time without issue, or sometimes you spend the most of it running away with the small loot or progression you have.

I can't control others peoples behaviour. I think the game rewards aggressive behaviour to much to the detriment to long term success to the game.

Like why do a skeleton fort when you can ambush the chumps who do it for you?

I haven't even attempted to do any of the underwater temples because they are so Counter intuitive. Your a sitting duck in open water. If you have a crew one person becomes delighted ship boy. Who has to stay behind. And not engage with the content because they have to stay watch. And that's not really fair.

I definitely think there are some players who get enjoyment out ruining the experience of others. And that's their soul purpose for playing. I really want to stay that's valid. Because you should accept that lose is part of the game. it definitely leaves an impression on whether it's worth it come back or not.

I guess that's why I'm writing for change because I can only control my feelings and outlook on the game. I think the game should cater to all the different play styles. Otherwise it's just gonna be sweats and eventually less and less people find the motivation to keep sailing.

Also I hope this hasn't come off as too ranty
A fruity pirate.

@miss-mandarin said in PvP vs Pve fatigue:

@wolfmanbush

Hey thank you for you warm response.

I'm very aware that there is ebs and flows to this game regarding your experience when you log in. And sometimes you'll have great time without issue, or sometimes you spend the most of it running away with the small loot or progression you have.

I can't control others peoples behaviour. I think the game rewards aggressive behaviour to much to the detriment to long term success to the game.

Like why do a skeleton fort when you can ambush the chumps who do it for you?

I haven't even attempted to do any of the underwater temples because they are so Counter intuitive. Your a sitting duck in open water. If you have a crew one person becomes delighted ship boy. Who has to stay behind. And not engage with the content because they have to stay watch. And that's not really fair.

I definitely think there are some players who get enjoyment out ruining the experience of others. And that's their soul purpose for playing. I really want to stay that's valid. Because you should accept that lose is part of the game. it definitely leaves an impression on whether it's worth it come back or not.

I guess that's why I'm writing for change because I can only control my feelings and outlook on the game. I think the game should cater to all the different play styles. Otherwise it's just gonna be sweats and eventually less and less people find the motivation to keep sailing.

Also I hope this hasn't come off as too ranty
A fruity pirate.

I get it, you're going through it and you'll get through it, you're just expressing your frustrations

my duty at my stage of pirate life is to just offer you something to consider in hopes that it becomes useful at some point during the process, during your experience.

@miss-mandarin said in PvP vs Pve fatigue:

the PvP however really bothers me, I understand that's there Should be pvp in the game and it a core component of it and I don't think it should go away. It's just an awful experience to be doing tall tales or doing Quests for 2 hours then get sunk because someone hid on your ship griefed you.

You made a mistake, you were not paying attention and lost. Own it and learn.

PvP immunity is the same as a PvE only server.

I didn't write this post to complain about PvP. I wrote it to give a prospective and feed back to the powers at be, so maybe there might be some positive change. I think my criticisms are fair and valid

While I do think there is a certain amount of responsibility to the player to avoid certain interactions and lower the impact of PvP. Like selling often, avoiding the centre of the map and other things.

I just think it provides to much pressure on casuals and new players where you have to essentially play as rats.

The amount of times I've played with new players and had to essentially beg other players not to attack us. Then when they do attack and we get sunk. Those new players don't want to play anymore.

There might be an argument that this game isn't for everyone. And that might be fair. However no amount of 'get good' or just roll with it will fix those feelings of the power imbalance of getting attacked by aggressive players.

I feel like the Devs tried to mitigate this with reapers appearing on the map, among other design decisions.

I feel like there's been alot decisions to cater to PvP like reapers and the introduction of hourglass for example and those are great if you enjoy that aspect of the game.

I'd just like see some decisions encourage a more friendlier and welcoming experience that promotes a more social aspect of the game.

Maybe you can elect to have immunity, at the cost of not running an emissary flag. Or maybe the Devs implement other strategies to curve the impact of PvP to those who don't want to engage in it.

I'm just trying to give constructive feedback without complaining... To much

One fruity pirate.

@miss-mandarin

Given the age of the game, it's clear the devs are completely intractable on this point. Personally, what enjoyment I get from the game exists largely in spite of their vision for it, which seems to be that the world needs more gameplay environs and people in them like those from Eve Online. It's honestly hard to think of a single development team or any game from the modern era so resolutely defiant to its players.

@merlin-mav-k said in PvP vs Pve fatigue:

@miss-mandarin

Given the age of the game, it's clear the devs are completely intractable on this point. Personally, what enjoyment I get from the game exists largely in spite of their vision for it, which seems to be that the world needs more gameplay environs and people in them like those from Eve Online. It's honestly hard to think of a single development team or any game from the modern era so resolutely defiant to its players.

Instanced content, checkpoints, sea forts near outposts, quick selling, quick gathering, season passes designed specifically to reward any activity, nerfed pve

The game made it 5 years and is still continuing because they listen to players and incorporate what they think is compatible for the foundation the game is built on.

That's a messy process, there are months at a time and sometimes even longer where organic activity can get pretty rough but the game has consistently catered to different types of play.

Imo people get focused on their preference of play, their preference of outcome, and they forget that this show doesn't last this long without the confidence of many players. It's not content creators, it's not all day pvpers, it's not me that keeps this ship afloat it's all of the casual players that play this game and those that decide to stick around.

That extremely important activity exists here in season 9 because slowly but surely over time their experience has improved, that experience improves because the devs have made attempts to improve the game based on feedback.

This is coming from someone that's been here years ringing the bell talking about organic activity being pushed out for specific reasons. Most of the main points I was making they have improved on. They have improved on that because of listening to and making changes based on casual feedback.

I don't agree with everything they do and that's very obvious in my post history but they have changed things around recently to specifically improve the qol of more players and more casual players and players are responding by being more active on these servers.

@wolfmanbush

Not sure it's about "preference of outcome". Some people interpret that as a sliding scale of easy to hard. Others rather calculate it on a scale of frustration to fun. These two are not the same at all.

Not talking specifically about the frustration of being killed, or robbed, or sunk, or whatever. Rather, the frustration of things like this happening when a player doesn't know the first thing about what to do, where to go, how to do it, how to avoid it, how to defend, etc.. The design as is largely teaches only through negative reinforcement, meted out by players mostly fulfilled by inflicting the misery.

There have been admirable additions to the game. I'm back myself after a long layoff because the POTC and Monkey Island stuff looks like a lot of fun. After spending decent chunks of time over the past weekend back in the game though it didn't take long for the stuff that pushed me away before to come back.

Simply wish it was a better overall experience to play this game.

@merlin-mav-k said in PvP vs Pve fatigue:

Simply wish it was a better overall experience to play this game.

Every bit of advice I offer new players, people struggling in the game, it's all from the times I've done wrong, been wrong, messed up, taken the dead end roads and got stuck in the mud.

On this piece you posted here I've learned that the times I've faced the uncertain horizon looking for something to appreciate are the times I found them and my outlook improved. My conduct improved and that improved my experience and the experiences of those around me.

Everything I've read from the op in this thread leads me to believe that they are going to do awesome. They have everything it takes to coexist and thrive with the design that the devs have said they are sticking to.

There are many others that will do awesome as well, it takes a lot of letting go of the inevitable but there is a spot here for everyone that wants to put in the effort.

@gunnner1 said in PvP vs Pve fatigue:

@miss-mandarin This is why I NEVER recommend this game to my friends, family, or clan. Too much frustration out-weighs the fun

I understand not cold selling the game to people.

but if people are in a situation where they would be playing as part of the crew I think that changes things.

Strong leadership with inexperienced players/family/friends can set them up for success and an enjoyable time. A few specific priorities are gonna make it likely that they can at least enjoy parts of the experience.

Example,

Don't take it out on people. No blame games, no passive aggressive stuff, no condescending stuff. No fits, no rage quits. It's a game and losing and winning really aren't a big deal. Both happen all day every day, neither justify tearing down a crew and crew mates.

Inexperienced players don't just learn useful things from us, they pick up our bad habits, our counter productive approaches, our poor conduct towards the environment and opponents. Our pessimism.

People leave more because of their experiences with their own crew more than the experiences with other crews. It's a random session based experience, unfortunate encounters are over quickly, the crew being unsupportive, harsh, unpleasant, these stick.

Goonies never say die, stick together, grow together, the environment feels unforgiving but it is in fact forgiving. We return from the ferry, we get a new boat, nothing in this game is worth sacrificing the opportunity within shared experience. Other crews cannot take that, it has to be voluntarily sacrificed and once it is, that's when starts to crumble.

I respect your opinion, because I think it's fair. Both games have similar issues but they come from different reasons. 76 has player levels and choice of gear that have their own levels, so players with higher levels and better gear will usually always win against lower level players so it Makes pvp in that game even more one sided which isn't fair. But I don't know to much more about the game to do much else compassion.

I've only recently came back to the game after a long hiatus, mostly because I was keen for the new monkey island content.

So I've done a bit of reflection and read up on the community and learnt that issues I've brought up ain't new and there's been ongoing conversations about it. The game has been out or ages and It still feels like the Devs want to keep adding things to the game.

They definitely added things to PvP to try and make it organic. Like having reapers appear on the map, so you can avoid them or go and attack them. Reapers chests applying the same purpose. And I think that's great design btw.

But if players don't want to ingage with that content my observation would be that the risk and rewards of those interactions are out of wack.

But those PvP interactions aren't what people have issue with. The PvP people don't like are the interactions they have little control over. Usually when your minding your own business. Things like sinking you while your on island doing quests, and whole lotta of other ways to be skummy.

I don't know how how many voyages I was able to complete this week without being hampered by aggressive players.

But I think problem is multi level, one the game as been out for while so if you are a PvPer your probably really good at it by now, so there is a higher skill ceiling.

secondly I think game rewards aggressive and slimy behaviour to much that creates toxic environment for other players.

Thirdly you can't really avoid it, you can have someone scanning the sea at all times or waiting for the coast is clear before heading to where you need to go. Enacting a whole bunch of strategies to avoid lesson other interactions with other players. But then that opens up another problem, that you don't actually get to to play and enjoy the game.

Lastly you can't getaway from those interactions. You will be chased from side of the map to the other. They will very rarely relent. Sometimes it's best to sail to another ship and pass the problem on to them, and that's not fair either.

You can flip a waited coin and fight and loose any progress you made that day. But what if you don't want to? Why should I be forced into that intaction?
I guess that's problem people don't like forced PvP

The best thing that I have done in this game is definitely was the glitterbeard event at the tree. That achievement highlights the strength of this game and how good it can be. that's what should be the focus of this games multiplayer aspect. It NEEDS to be social it needs to be welcoming. There should be threats and not necessarily smooth sailing, hourglass is the future of PvP. You shouldn't have to give yourself Stockholm syndrome to enjoy the game.

That fruity pirate.

@miss-mandarin

I'm just going to add this because I feel like it's important feedback,

I don't like that the game prioritises and rewards the decisions of PvP players over those who don't want to participate in those decisions. Why is the fun of PvP players more important then mine and players like me? How is that healthy for the game? I'm not owed and answer to the questions. However the response shouldn't be you'll get better. My fun/experience shouldn't be the carrot at the end of the stick of someone's else's fun. It's that imbalance that should be addressed.