Ok, can we please get some anti-cheat action/software into this game?

  • ImperatorMorsus
    Captain
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    Founder

    I was with my son (7 years old), and we were being stalked by two players who seemed to be able to snipe both of us while INSIDE our ship's hull. I might be able to understand perhaps if they were aiming from behind the ship and getting a lucky shot, but this was from where you could barely see them looking through a scope when we were above board.

    Here is how it started, my son and I had just started our mission to find Belle at Liar's Backbone in my sloop; we had nothing on our ship and were sailing along. Then a ship showed up in the distance at 11 O'Clock, I told my son to get below deck because I saw them scoping us through the sights of a sniper rifle. He told me he was dead; I turned the ship with, moved the sails to fully capture the wind, to get away from the other ship; they were now on our six and somehow gaining (they were also in a sloop) I went below no one was there. I was then taken out when climbing the stairs to where the map was.

    Then suddenly, one of the players showed up on the deck and came after us. This should not have been possible while they were on our six. I killed him, but somehow our ship took damage, the mast was now down, and the ship was full of holes... (they did not blow up a gunpowder keg) Otherwise I would have been killed too.

    We respawned on another island, and they showed up again, rinse and repeat.

    We spawned someplace entirely different, found ourselves towards where we needed to go, then another player sniped us from such a distance all I knew was there was a ship in the distance... and that was it. When we respawned, we were instantly killed (inside the hull)

    I was able to get the ship away, but my son was more annoyed over this and started to think every ship would fight us when they showed up. It got rather frustrating because he was jumping at every little thing on the shore. I honestly could not blame him because if we were able to be sniped from INSIDE our ship, at a distance that is unreasonable even to imagine, there was nowhere safe to be.

    This leads me to ask, why hasn't RARE considered putting some anti-cheat software on their game? I understand playing the game for hundreds of hours, you may get good at using weapons, but there is no way in hell you are that good that you can snipe someone on the horizon inside their own ship. Nor is there a way to show up on your deck when the ship is not in range of anything, and we are expected to take this as fair play?

    I understand this is the "Sea of Thieves", but this should not be the "Sea of Hackers"...

    I have been a day-1 player, and I loved this game back then. Still, now, I am starting to see what people are talking about on Reddit about players coming along and runining the game by being OP... and not "being good" OP... but OP to an extent in which they are doing things that should not be possible.

    Yes, I have player names, and yes, I reported them, but that is going to matter? I've seen stories of people being reported and nothing happens... I doubt I will see anything happen here either. It really is sad that the game has come to this... I will keep on playing, but we should not have to put up with this as a community, period.

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  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    you did what you can do

    something I'd recommend and something I implement in my own sessions is that I don't attach to the server and I don't attach myself to any frustration involving others

    there is no scuttling or respawning over and over for me unless there is a specific objective involving something pve related like something rare I hid/found

    I bounce to a new server quickly and I move on quickly

    nothing the devs will ever create will be as effective as moving on quickly and efficiently

    the rare times I am playing with others the objective is always remove the crew from the issue as soon as it becomes an issue, new server is new opportunity to get after it again without the frustrations and drama that was created by an unpleasant experience.

  • ImperatorMorsus
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    @wolfmanbush I don't disagree, but at the same time, we should not HAVE to do this.

  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    @imperatormorsus said in Ok, can we please get some anti-cheat action/software into this game?:

    @wolfmanbush I don't disagree, but at the same time, we should not HAVE to do this.

    that's the part people often have an issue with in my suggestions

    that's the ego part of it in a video game where it's just as easy to grab a new server as it is to respawn and start over

    this game becomes much much easier to handle when there isn't an ego battle

    once people no longer fight imaginary battles with opponents it's much easier to move on from the results of the real ones

    when someone grabs a new server it's over, it's gone, it's time for new opportunity without the negativity from the previous server.

  • ImperatorMorsus
    Captain
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    Founder

    @wolfmanbush It's not ego, not even close, I know I'm not the best player on the seas, but if they implemented the suggestions that I have made through the years now, this would not be a problem.

    Honestly, we should be allowed to have "ranked" servers where PvP is more expected than not, so those who want to have PvP can take part in it, while those who don't can go to servers with pirates that want to make, well friends. Make it where you don't want to enter servers with a PvP rank of 5 or higher, etc... or whatever you want it set to.

    With that being implemented, we then put a contingency action in where if we made it where PvP had to be equally initiated (one fire on you and you return fire), then PvP can commence... If not, if you continue to harass, the server recognizes this, and an NPC pirate crew comes around and harasses or tries to sink the one who won't let it drop. More like "Flamebeard (name your baddy) likes your gumption and wants to take you on as part of his crew." You are swarmed by ghost ships... while the other ship is otherwise ignored.

    I know, pipe dream, but I don't see why it can't be done.

  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    @imperatormorsus said in Ok, can we please get some anti-cheat action/software into this game?:

    @wolfmanbush It's not ego, not even close, I know I'm not the best player on the seas, but if they implemented the suggestions that I have made through the years now, this would not be a problem.

    Honestly, we should be allowed to have "ranked" servers where PvP is more expected than not, so those who want to have PvP can take part in it, while those who don't can go to servers with pirates that want to make, well friends. Make it where you don't want to enter servers with a PvP rank of 5 or higher, etc... or whatever you want it set to.

    With that being implemented, we then put a contingency action in where if we made it where PvP had to be equally initiated (one fire on you and you return fire), then PvP can commence... If not, if you continue to harass, the server recognizes this, and an NPC pirate crew comes around and harasses or tries to sink the one who won't let it drop. More like "Flamebeard (name your baddy) likes your gumption and wants to take you on as part of his crew." You are swarmed by ghost ships... while the other ship is otherwise ignored.

    I know, pipe dream, but I don't see why it can't be done.

    why did you stay on the server?

    you just started the adventure
    you had no loot

    why stay on the server knowing the threat established on that server?
    why after it happened again?

  • ImperatorMorsus
    Captain
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    @wolfmanbush Because I figured when we got sunk, we would be far enough away from "trouble" not to get hit by the same people again, I mean we were 3 islands away, so they knew where we were, even though it was statistically impossible. We were not flying a flag, or anything, so we should not show on a map.

  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    @imperatormorsus said in Ok, can we please get some anti-cheat action/software into this game?:

    @wolfmanbush Because I figured when we got sunk, we would be far enough away from "trouble" not to get hit by the same people again, I mean we were 3 islands away, so they knew where we were, even though it was statistically impossible. We were not flying a flag, or anything, so we should not show on a map.

    You don't have to, you are not required to, but you were in an immediate situation that only you can deescalate for yourself and your crew. You have the power and the tools to solve it immediately.

    Devs will never be there for any of us in an immediate situation, policies and enforcement are a response to an alleged violation they are not prevention. We have to be there for our crew, for ourselves. Staying in situations that are a problem where there is no compromise only increases risk and damage to the experience.

  • ImperatorMorsus
    Captain
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    Founder

    @wolfmanbush I am not asking the devs to be there for us at a moment's notice... I am asking the devs to put in a system that would make the game more entertaining for people who don't want to deal with PvP, or to deal with those who are blatant cheaters. I don't think either is too much of an ask.

    As for moving on, yes I could have done that, but why should I be the one forced to move on? Why can't they be pushed to a server with PvP players in it?

  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    @imperatormorsus said in Ok, can we please get some anti-cheat action/software into this game?:

    @wolfmanbush I am not asking the devs to be there for us at a moment's notice... I am asking the devs to put in a system that would make the game more entertaining for people who don't want to deal with PvP, or to deal with those who are blatant cheaters. I don't think either is too much of an ask.

    As for moving on, yes I could have done that, but why should I be the one forced to move on? Why can't they be pushed to a server with PvP players in it?

    You had a 7 year old on board in a situation where you felt targeted. It's not a matter of being forced out it's a matter of deescalating and moving forward in a way that is productive and not as intense, not as personally hostile.

    As you are well aware the priority as a Captain is the well-being of the crew. To lead, to serve, to protect. You would not be forced out you would be walking away from a situation that nobody benefits from being in.

  • MopWieldingHedgehog
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    Moderator
    Boatswain

    @imperatormorsus This is starting to get close to asking for PvE only servers. For that I will direct you to this thread: https://www.seaofthieves.com/community/forums/topic/136693/pvpve-the-team-s-thoughts and remind you that for now, the discussion around PvPvE is closed on the Forums.
    As for the actual topic of the thread, you might want to have a look at this post: https://www.seaofthieves.com/community/forums/topic/149671/updates-to-security-features

  • ImperatorMorsus
    Captain
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    @xshirahx said in Ok, can we please get some anti-cheat action/software into this game?:

    @imperatormorsus This is starting to get close to asking for PvE only servers. For that I will direct you to this thread: https://www.seaofthieves.com/community/forums/topic/136693/pvpve-the-team-s-thoughts and remind you that for now, the discussion around PvPvE is closed on the Forums.
    As for the actual topic of the thread, you might want to have a look at this post: https://www.seaofthieves.com/community/forums/topic/149671/updates-to-security-features

    No, not a PvP server, and I understand that this has been talked about, but I wish people would stop saying "It's been talked about and the conversation has been ended for now." That is like corporations saying "We have always done it this way." Which is one of the most dangerous statements ever made. It just means they are OK with the status quo and screw those who have a valid point. Just because it was shelved a year ago, it does not mean it should not be brought up again because enough time has passed and people are now complaining on other media about this. IF that is not an indication of a problem, I don't know what is.

    I am a manager for Help Desk/Desktop Support across the East Coast of the US. When I hear statements like what I linked, it always brings up red flags to me.

    I digress. As for the "updates to security"... I'd like to know what security has been activated because it seems the most blatant of cheat abilities has not been stopped. Aimbots and transport hacks are still alive and kicking.

  • PersonalC0ffee
    Captain
    Insider
    Boatswain

    OH there are definitely hackers. I've run into a few myself and its getting worse.

    Yah, I think we need some anti-cheat. That or Microsoft needs to have it scan SoT files and if it finds ANY altered, instant hardware id bans for network chip, gpu, mobo, and cpu. You want to play SoT? You buy a new game and a whole new computer.

    No love for hackers, none.

  • Nex Stargaze
    Commander
    Insider

    @imperatormorsus There is not a single multiplayer game that is invulnerable to cheats/hacks. People program these things all the time and game devs can only issue a borderline bandaid to block/disable their use temporarily before the coders release a new version compatible with the current version of the game and outdoes the prevention methods already set up.

    You can't really stop that kind of thing, even with a verified anti-cheat. The most any company will be willing to tell you is that they will use their own measures to solve the issue. If you announce that you're preventing cheats and hacks, those same script kiddies are gonna make a new version to undo all those efforts. That's not to say it's hopeless, but situations regarding that are much less common than what people complain here think.

    A decent, actually well trained player in this game knows what nonsense looks like coming from an enemy player, and usually, they'll record their scenario, prep up evidence for a ticket to send to support, take the obviously losing fight, and leave the server. Your 7 year old son shouldn't have to be so traumatized, but playing Devil's Advocate here, your 7 year old son, parental supervision or not, shouldn't be engaging in a T rated online video game, god forbid those enemy players were using comms while they killed you.

  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    @nex-stargaze said in Ok, can we please get some anti-cheat action/software into this game?:

    A decent, actually well trained player in this game knows what nonsense looks like coming from an enemy player, and usually, they'll record their scenario, prep up evidence for a ticket to send to support, take the obviously losing fight, and leave the server.

    not really, there are streamers including partners that accuse cheating and "sus" regularly where the gameplay actually isn't any different than what it looks like when one of them go against a pver. One player/crew performing much more effectively than the other.

    The most common accusations are aim bot and esp which often aren't provable by the one accusing it. People in this game lose fights in a very negative way and some of those people are popular within the community and it leads to a lot of no accountability accusations.

    An objective and knowledgeable player can reasonably notice macros and some exploits but that's about as far as that goes when it comes to accuracy. Add in how terrible some of these servers perform and that only becomes more complicated and less accurate.

  • ImperatorMorsus
    Captain
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    Founder

    @nex-stargaze

    A decent, actually well trained player in this game knows what nonsense looks like coming from an enemy player, and usually, they'll record their scenario, prep up evidence for a ticket to send to support, take the obviously losing fight, and leave the server. Your 7 year old son shouldn't have to be so traumatized, but playing Devil's Advocate here, your 7 year old son, parental supervision or not, shouldn't be engaging in a T rated online video game, god forbid those enemy players were using comms while they killed you.

    Did I ever say they used coms? 90% of all hackers refuse to use coms because it will give them away. Also, heads up... not everyone expects this to happen, so we don't record all of our activities online. It sounds like you may be a streamer... I'm not.

    Now, the fact is, I can tell when someone is cheating, they don't miss shots, they get hit and don't take damage, they don't JUMP onto your ship when it is too far over for a cannon to accurately hit...

    You can say what you want, but it seems to me you are making an excuse for cheaters...

  • ImperatorMorsus
    Captain
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    Founder

    @wolfmanbush Aimbots are very provable in systems when they are shooting people in situations that should not exist.

  • Nex Stargaze
    Commander
    Insider

    @wolfmanbush I mean, say what you will, but I very much mean what I said. A Streamer/partner has to take accountability of their own skills against other players better in PvP than them, most of them don't do that, and it speaks more so of their skill and ego.

    Actual hacker situations are rare still, but Partners cry foul often because they are fairly targeted by better players during the very... dormant portions of the seasons, like right now.

  • mferr11
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @imperatormorsus said in Ok, can we please get some anti-cheat action/software into this game?:

    Honestly, we should be allowed to have "ranked" servers where PvP is more expected than not, so those who want to have PvP can take part in it, while those who don't can go to servers with pirates that want to make, well friends. Make it where you don't want to enter servers with a PvP rank of 5 or higher, etc... or whatever you want it set to.

    With that being implemented, we then put a contingency action in where if we made it where PvP had to be equally initiated (one fire on you and you return fire), then PvP can commence... If not, if you continue to harass, the server recognizes this, and an NPC pirate crew comes around and harasses or tries to sink the one who won't let it drop. More like "Flamebeard (name your baddy) likes your gumption and wants to take you on as part of his crew." You are swarmed by ghost ships... while the other ship is otherwise ignored.

    I know, pipe dream, but I don't see why it can't be done.

    Bro tried sneaking in PvE servers in an anti-cheat post lol.

  • Kadaj1991
    Captain
    Insider

    I do agree the game does require a level of Anti-cheat in place.

    There is to much stuff online showing the uses of Aimbotting and more the functionalities of how they are able to cheat.

    Sites still out there that have not been looked into and the fact that the game is being ruined by people doing this kind of behavior just annoys me.

    Add a Anti-cheat, games such as Rust add a hit reg telling you where you got hit, and even what killed you at the time even %, give us something we can provide in order to be able to report this kind of behavior, because the developers seem to just want Vids and nothing else, not even bothering to take action.

  • ImperatorMorsus
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    @mferr11 said in Ok, can we please get some anti-cheat action/software into this game?:

    @imperatormorsus said in Ok, can we please get some anti-cheat action/software into this game?:

    Honestly, we should be allowed to have "ranked" servers where PvP is more expected than not, so those who want to have PvP can take part in it, while those who don't can go to servers with pirates that want to make, well friends. Make it where you don't want to enter servers with a PvP rank of 5 or higher, etc... or whatever you want it set to.

    With that being implemented, we then put a contingency action in where if we made it where PvP had to be equally initiated (one fire on you and you return fire), then PvP can commence... If not, if you continue to harass, the server recognizes this, and an NPC pirate crew comes around and harasses or tries to sink the one who won't let it drop. More like "Flamebeard (name your baddy) likes your gumption and wants to take you on as part of his crew." You are swarmed by ghost ships... while the other ship is otherwise ignored.

    I know, pipe dream, but I don't see why it can't be done.

    Bro tried sneaking in PvE servers in an anti-cheat post lol.

    It is an actual functioning anti-cheat anti-harassment system. They use it in EVE Online.

    They force cheaters and hacks into 0.0 space where it is lawless.

  • PithyRumble
    Sailor
    Insider

    @imperatormorsus

    You'd get sunk waiting on the npc's to show up in SoT.

    Not to mention, I just rowed over and took your ship and ran it into some rocks and camped your wheel and now you can't attack me because here comes my galleon and if you shoot/attack me to get me off your wheel, we get to wreck you still.

    Players would absolutely still be able to harass you in SoT with Eve's system. Sounds like they can still harass you there too. Imma just fly over here and block your path... go ahead... shoot me...

    I find the best anticheat is playing on console. Xbox/Controller preferred since it was introduced. Never saw a cheater before or after.

    Figure out how to do quick records. I know on my console it's 2 button clicks and I have the last 30 seconds for evidence.

    I also think responding to a complaint with the actions taken (or not) is a bad idea. Also makes the reporter seem kind of petty, wanting to know what happened. More like you wanted to get them in trouble than help the community.

  • ImperatorMorsus
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    @pithyrumble hence why I said something like flame heart as the NPC fleet to handle this.

    Instant transportation.

    Oh, and side note, cheaters/hackers aren't hiding it.

  • TH3xR34P3R
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    @imperatormorsus said in Ok, can we please get some anti-cheat action/software into this game?:

    @xshirahx said in Ok, can we please get some anti-cheat action/software into this game?:

    @imperatormorsus This is starting to get close to asking for PvE only servers. For that I will direct you to this thread: https://www.seaofthieves.com/community/forums/topic/136693/pvpve-the-team-s-thoughts and remind you that for now, the discussion around PvPvE is closed on the Forums.
    As for the actual topic of the thread, you might want to have a look at this post: https://www.seaofthieves.com/community/forums/topic/149671/updates-to-security-features

    No, not a PvP server, and I understand that this has been talked about, but I wish people would stop saying "It's been talked about and the conversation has been ended for now." That is like corporations saying "We have always done it this way." Which is one of the most dangerous statements ever made. It just means they are OK with the status quo and screw those who have a valid point. Just because it was shelved a year ago, it does not mean it should not be brought up again because enough time has passed and people are now complaining on other media about this. IF that is not an indication of a problem, I don't know what is.

    I am a manager for Help Desk/Desktop Support across the East Coast of the US. When I hear statements like what I linked, it always brings up red flags to me.

    I digress. As for the "updates to security"... I'd like to know what security has been activated because it seems the most blatant of cheat abilities has not been stopped. Aimbots and transport hacks are still alive and kicking.

    I have reported about 5 different ones in a single report thread and am still keeping an eye on any new ones that are posted to update them, it's a critical issue that needs to be resolved, I am not going to list out what they are called and how to find them for obvious reasons.

  • iLovePonies15
    Sailor

    @imperatormorsus PVE server argument presented as a PVP server. I have seen issues with cheaters but not very often. I agree with bringing cheating up, but you've turned this into a pve server debate. The thread should just get locked.

  • Magus104
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    Sadly anti cheat tends to create lots of lag and other issues if not implemented properly. The servers already run bad enough I would be worried about how they would be after implementing something like that. I have been the only boat on a server and the performance is still bad. Like if it can't handle a single ship no wonder its so bad with 5

  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    @magus104 said in Ok, can we please get some anti-cheat action/software into this game?:

    Sadly anti cheat tends to create lots of lag and other issues if not implemented properly. The servers already run bad enough I would be worried about how they would be after implementing something like that. I have been the only boat on a server and the performance is still bad. Like if it can't handle a single ship no wonder its so bad with 5

    and will all of these server issues lead to unjustified bans?

    in a game where a person can go from the deck of their ship instantly to the bottom of the ocean daily or every other day

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