Adjusting Emissary Flags

Time spend on voting down the flag is time not spend defending their ship or turning in loot.

Also, if you suspect them to vote down their flag, you know exactly where they are for an easier kill.

I think it should be that if they vote to lower their flag, it appears in their ship and they must sell it to receive the gold.

Because if you have been tailing a sloop that just sailed into the wind, it feels a bit cheap that they can just ram that outpost and run about 5m and lower it.

So this about a reaper who failed to sink a fleeing ship before they reached an outpost.

When they should check the map for the closest outpost and cut them off. Out play.

This would make people less likely play emissary ever again.

@cinnumann

I don't believe they need to be anchored.

There is a system which stops players from lowering their emissary flag.

It's called DEEZ CANNONS! Pew pew!

If you can't sink them before they can lower their flag, then you didn't deserve their flag.

I can somewhat agree with the problem, but that is more out of bitterness than it actually being a problem. What I see is the game should strive for consistency, and being able to sell while being attacked is already the status quo. So I don't agree with the notion one can't lower a flag while being in combat. That just makes things very inconsistent. However, I think there could be a change. One thing I've suggested in the past is treat lowering an Emissary just like any piece of loot. Vote your emissary off on ship, it gives you the flag, and you walk the flag to return it. This makes it so it is treated like normal loot with all the current risks that come with turning in loot.

@d3adst1ck

@nabberwar The only issue with that is it allows emissaries to vote down anywhere. They'd lose their sell bonus, but if they were going to drop the flag they'd lose that anyways. I can see this being used as a way to immediately disappear from the map; it's that pesky Reaper map ability causing problems again.

Unless you change it so Reapers see flags, not just ships. Imagine a Reaper is on the map with haul of multiple Emissary Flags. Another Reaper on the map not only sees the Reaper, but multiple other icons indicating other flags on that ship.. Rationally, it seems strange that only an attached flag is visible on the map, why should it stop there? I'd argue that the system also creates a better risk system. A ship with more Emissaries will probably be placed on a higher targeted priority given the amount of flags they may possess. Leaving possible new ships a bit of a safety buffer.

If this change is made, it wouldn't really matter where they remove the Emissary because all it does is cost them a bonus but still keeps the risk of having an Emissary.

Always try to approach from the enemy ships desired fleeing direction and this quickly becomes less of a problem. You can also leave a trap beside the emissary table a crewmate or kegs work best but I even left a bunch of snakes once and it worked like a charm.

I would have agreed with you when the system was first added but have since come to realize the system is fair for both parties.

@nabberwar said in Adjusting Emissary Flags:

Imagine a Reaper is on the map with haul of multiple Emissary Flags. Another Reaper on the map not only sees the Reaper, but multiple other icons indicating other flags on that ship.. Rationally, it seems strange that only an attached flag is visible on the map, why should it stop there? I'd argue that the system also creates a better risk system. A ship with more Emissaries will probably be placed on a higher targeted priority given the amount of flags they may possess. Leaving possible new ships a bit of a safety buffer.

This is an absolutely brilliant suggestion.

@maximusarael020 said in Adjusting Emissary Flags:

@nabberwar said in Adjusting Emissary Flags:

Imagine a Reaper is on the map with haul of multiple Emissary Flags. Another Reaper on the map not only sees the Reaper, but multiple other icons indicating other flags on that ship.. Rationally, it seems strange that only an attached flag is visible on the map, why should it stop there? I'd argue that the system also creates a better risk system. A ship with more Emissaries will probably be placed on a higher targeted priority given the amount of flags they may possess. Leaving possible new ships a bit of a safety buffer.

This is an absolutely brilliant suggestion.

I want this as well. Make it happen please.

@d3adst1ck

Not really, because now they can ditch the marker or bury it anywhere.

They can do that with Reapers chest already, but most would rather get the value from the sale. It isn't a problem when its used in a diversion there, why does it suddenly become a problem now? All I see is making Emissaries consistent with the current status quo. It just gives players a choice, be followed because of it, or ditch it and lose out on the extra Rep and Gold. Chasers are left with a choice as well, go for the beacon, or ship. I don't see this as a big deal. I think you may be overthinking on this. Players already use diversions and the like, this just adds more to the current status quo.

@d3adst1ck

The reaper chest isn't the same as an emissary flag, which denotes potential value of treasure aboard a ship.

I'm going to hard disagree, because you are ignoring that the flag itself has a gold value attached to it. The denoted potential value is just that, potential. A ship can be an emissary of grade 5 and still have not loot. Did it at one point? Sure, but the same could be said for the ship with the Reapers chest.

These are far more similar than you give them credit. The differences are negligible at best. Both are beacons in their own right, both have inherit value that can be sold and stolen, and both can lead to potential but not promised greater spoils found on the ship carrying it.

The only thing an Emissary Grade tells you is that at some point loot was there.

@myftix
I don't have a lot of problems with this. When the enemy ship gets away and has a chance to lower the flag, one of 4 things has happened:

1. The enemy crew outplayed you. Maybe they just know how to defend better than you know how to attack.
2. You didn't use the most effective strategy. Maybe a rowboat would have worked better.
3. You failed in some way which allowed them to beat you and get away. Like, you used chainshots and missed, forgetting that you have an anchorball in the hold.
4. PvE, in the other teams favor (is balanced because it could have just as easily happened to them)

So, if someone gets away, I can always trace back the event to something that is my fault or something I couldn't have overcome by changing the rules of the game.

When this happens, I think to myself: "Either I get the flag or I get their loot." Because when a crew decides to stop at an outpost, they can either lower their flag and be a sitting duck, or try selling as much loot as possible and be a sitting duck.

@d3adst1ck said in Adjusting Emissary Flags:

@nabberwar said in Adjusting Emissary Flags:

If this change is made, it wouldn't really matter where they remove the Emissary because all it does is cost them a bonus but still keeps the risk of having an Emissary.

Not really, because now they can ditch the marker or bury it anywhere. If a reaper pops up on the map, they can remove the flag and drop it or have a crew member row it in some random direction to lead the chase away and then just throw it in the ocean.

It's an even more effective way to abuse the map metagaming that the Reaper system introduced.

Wdym?

If you remove the flag, you get no emissary bonus. If you row it away, the Reapers will just pummel your tiny rowboat and take the flag. The flag is the most valuable part of an emissary ship.

This feature is literally the perfect solution to all the Reaper related problems.

Not only that, but you could even make a feature so you can attach someone else's flag and steal their bonus. Emissaries would become much more elusive targets

@d3adst1ck

Are you describing them now, or after your proposed change where you can remove the flag? Because right now there is a distinct difference in that one cannot be separated from the ship carrying it.

With assumed changes. I just see a net positive turning the item into a lootable tracked object.

Reaper follows marker on their map to slowly sinking flag. It will be gone before they get there, and original ship is no longer on the map and still has all their loot.

If there is such a distance gap between ships that it reaches the loot floating limits, they have plenty of time to just sail to an outpost and turn it in. At that point, a diversion is pointless considering the whole point to a diversion is to create a window of time, which they already have in spades.

The Emissary flag mechanics for lowering are fine in terms of balance.

The imbalance lies in ship speeds. Brigs and Galleons don't ever have to fight a sloop if they don't want to. They don't have to do any sail management or even have all their masts up and they can pull squares on a sloop in every wind condition except a perfect deadwind.

They really need to apply hefty speed penalties for poor sail management IMO.

I agree somewhat in that it feels too easy for players to do this, but also I never understand the inherent value people place on it. I know sometimes it's defiance and wanting to spite reapers, only time I lower my flag is if my initial interactions show them to be Salty, like I'm solo slooping I go for a board and they spam rolls on deck laughing cos they spot me, OK I not only owe you nothing but gonna lead you on a merry chase and lower flag anyway.

There's a lot of projection about reapers being inherently bad people which I don't get, ofc there's toxic players but that is regardless of emissary etc

2 more athena 5 flags then I'm done for commendation (tho I will still do reaper)

@sweetsandman said in Adjusting Emissary Flags:

The Emissary flag mechanics for lowering are fine in terms of balance.

The imbalance lies in ship speeds. Brigs and Galleons don't ever have to fight a sloop if they don't want to. They don't have to do any sail management or even have all their masts up and they can pull squares on a sloop in every wind condition except a perfect deadwind.

They really need to apply hefty speed penalties for poor sail management IMO.

Totally agree with the last point, wrong sail configuration should slow you down considerably.