5 Minutes Server-Merge Warning

Considering you can't control when a server merge happens, I mean hell, anecdotally I've been apart of and seen live on streams that going back to your respawned boat after it's been sunk can trigger a server merge, in servers with active Reaper Vs and FoTDs even; 5 minute warnings are useless against that. When the server merge happens on your end, it may not happen on the other ship's end, as usually, you're being transported to their server, and they'll never know you spawned in until they check the horizon at random or check their map (if you're marked for them).

@schwammlgott

What do you mean by "all have to be on board of the ship"? Is that a requirement from rare? I dont knew about that and when yes, yes then it would be easy to explode.

@Nex-Stargaze

I mean basicly you can - Of course I dont know excactly how Rare is making the merges, but usually you put them into a queue. I dont think, that they have like a trigger with occurs every x minutes to check, if they can merge servers. I think they put the server in a queue and waits until another server has the requierment which is needed, in other words one server search another server with lets say 3 ships or less to merge.

From my perspective there is a few actions you wont do, until the server-merge is done. As example I would not start a Server event, or when I have less stuff with emissary I would go to the nearest outpost asap and with a lot of stuff I would maybe sail into a calm area. As a reaper in other hand, I would try to get into a comfy spot like near an outpost but not too near so maybe I can kill someone. Just my thoughts. Like I said, I can be totally wrong with that.

@schwammlgott said in 5 Minutes Server-Merge Warning:

@moldarius7202 when one of your crew stays on an island, you won't merge...that's why, when we finish a FoF or some treasure vault, and we saw no ship for a long time, one of us stays on the island until we got all treasure on board...most times, as soon as the last one came on board-instant server merge

I didn't know about that! In my opinion that should not able to be done, just merge wherever the crew is, but I think they need to do that for a clean merge.

With this information, yeah the 5min warning is kind exploitable and not usefull. I just want to give it a try.

Can be closed then, I think.

I don't see what harm it would cause, but also I'm not sure what good a 5 minute warning would do. How would you have played differently if you had a warning in the session you used as an example? It's not like you get a preview of what is waiting for you on the other side of a merge.

The only benefit to having a warning would be situations with battles for fort keys that are away from the fort...and even then, a warning wouldn't really help unless you were close enough to get back to the fort.

how about we just remove server merges haha

@d3adst1ck said in 5 Minutes Server-Merge Warning:

I think the main issue is that if you know that the server is going to merge you, you can actively stop it by keeping a crew member off ship. When a server is in shutdown mode, it will also refuse new ships because it is waiting for whatever ships are on the server currently to meet the merge conditions or quit.

A warning creates an opportunity to keep a server up indefinitely for yourself or an alliance (assuming performance doesn't degrade to the point of crashing).

Ah great point. This idea then becomes an exploitable feature.

Hard pass, OP.

@sweetsandman

I don't think I have to justify my Idea anymore. I wasn't inform about the things which leads to exploit the merge.

For me, the most important part is the fun of the game, making it the most enjoyable for everyone. And that doesn't mean that the Idea I have should be implemented.
That means what the most of the community want, and what's the best for the game should be developed.

With that new information I got, my thoughts are not wrong from the idea itself, in my opinion, but for sure not addable for the current state of server merges. So I take it back! :D

Well if they started giving warning, to avoid exploiting, the game could simply TP all crew back to the ship then merge. Similarly to how any crew get TP’d during a portal if they are not on the ship.

@kommodoreyenser said in 5 Minutes Server-Merge Warning:

Well if they started giving warning, to avoid exploiting, the game could simply TP all crew back to the ship then merge. Similarly to how any crew get TP’d during a portal if they are not on the ship.

Sometimes, my crewmate is busy with an Ashen Lord while I am sailing around. If we would find ourselves on an empty server, he could be whisked away during or at the end of the encounter while I may not have enough time to get back. Won't be happy about that.

Someone performs some stealthy play with ship far away (or sunk), sinks the alliance around a fort, alliance gives up by quitting the session, server is empty but one ship - server merge incoming …

There are other scenarios where crewmates might not be close enough together or people not close to their ship that might be ruined. I am all for making exploiting impossible in this game, but this would not be the way.

@moldarius7202 no thanks.

@lem0n-curry said in 5 Minutes Server-Merge Warning:

@kommodoreyenser said in 5 Minutes Server-Merge Warning:

Well if they started giving warning, to avoid exploiting, the game could simply TP all crew back to the ship then merge. Similarly to how any crew get TP’d during a portal if they are not on the ship.

Sometimes, my crewmate is busy with an Ashen Lord while I am sailing around. If we would find ourselves on an empty server, he could be whisked away during or at the end of the encounter while I may not have enough time to get back. Won't be happy about that.

Someone performs some stealthy play with ship far away (or sunk), sinks the alliance around a fort, alliance gives up by quitting the session, server is empty but one ship - server merge incoming …

There are other scenarios where crewmates might not be close enough together or people not close to their ship that might be ruined. I am all for making exploiting impossible in this game, but this would not be the way.

I mean, you are both admitting to exploiting the current server merge mechanic and saying you want to get rid of exploits. Either you are for exploits or not, half measures do nothing but let players pick and choose off their personal preferences.

I am personally fine with exactly how it is. No way to cheese it either as you never know when it will come. So you can either be a man down for quite some time, or not concern yourself with getting merged. I was simply playing devil's advocate and showing a way a warning could be implemented and prevent exploiting at the same time.

There are also unfortunately server issues and maintenance that would never work with warnings. A server encounters a critical error or other issue that if left without a reboot or cold start would lead to a crash. So it merges the players out and does so. Servers running out of resources (all programs have memory leak, no matter how small it might be)

5 minutes is also plenty of time to get to whatever island a crew mate is on outside of them being literally more than half the map away from the ship though. Stealth plays could be solved by tethering TP/island/loot state save to your rowboat similar to when you ship is parked near an island/floating loot during a merge (lets be real, all but noobs spot mermaids easy if someone swam there)

@kommodoreyenser said in 5 Minutes Server-Merge Warning:

@lem0n-curry said in 5 Minutes Server-Merge Warning:

@kommodoreyenser said in 5 Minutes Server-Merge Warning:

Well if they started giving warning, to avoid exploiting, the game could simply TP all crew back to the ship then merge. Similarly to how any crew get TP’d during a portal if they are not on the ship.

Sometimes, my crewmate is busy with an Ashen Lord while I am sailing around. If we would find ourselves on an empty server, he could be whisked away during or at the end of the encounter while I may not have enough time to get back. Won't be happy about that.

Someone performs some stealthy play with ship far away (or sunk), sinks the alliance around a fort, alliance gives up by quitting the session, server is empty but one ship - server merge incoming …

There are other scenarios where crewmates might not be close enough together or people not close to their ship that might be ruined. I am all for making exploiting impossible in this game, but this would not be the way.

I mean, you are both admitting to exploiting the current server merge mechanic and saying you want to get rid of exploits. Either you are for exploits or not, half measures do nothing but let players pick and choose off their personal preferences.

I am what ? Where do I say we exploit current merge mechanic ?
We split up once in a while not when we know we are the only ship on the server, we just do sometimes. I used an example from a real session where your solution would be problematic if during that scenario the server would become empty.
If it would happen in the current situation, we would cuss when he got killed and returning from the ferry we are merged.

I am personally fine with exactly how it is. No way to cheese it either as you never know when it will come. So you can either be a man down for quite some time, or not concern yourself with getting merged. I was simply playing devil's advocate and showing a way a warning could be implemented and prevent exploiting at the same time.

It would ruin some scenarios, as I explained, so I'd rather not have something like that implemented.

There are also unfortunately server issues and maintenance that would never work with warnings. A server encounters a critical error or other issue that if left without a reboot or cold start would lead to a crash. So it merges the players out and does so. Servers running out of resources (all programs have memory leak, no matter how small it might be)

5 minutes is also plenty of time to get to whatever island a crew mate is on outside of them being literally more than half the map away from the ship though. Stealth plays could be solved by tethering TP/island/loot state save to your rowboat similar to when you ship is parked near an island/floating loot during a merge (lets be real, all but noobs spot mermaids easy if someone swam there)

In the scenario where a person is left alone after the rest left, can he empty the fort, put it in a rowboat and row to an outpost in 5 minutes or take the chance his ship spawns within 5 minutes sail ? Don't think so.

In the other scenario (split crew), if we add the one on the ship is doing a ghost fleet voyage. They need all of a sudden to decide which thing to take to the next server (if that would be even possible). Don't think you can merge while in a world event -- ooh found a way to exploit the 5 minute warning …

@lem0n-curry said in 5 Minutes Server-Merge Warning:

@kommodoreyenser said in 5 Minutes Server-Merge Warning:

@lem0n-curry said in 5 Minutes Server-Merge Warning:

@kommodoreyenser said in 5 Minutes Server-Merge Warning:

Well if they started giving warning, to avoid exploiting, the game could simply TP all crew back to the ship then merge. Similarly to how any crew get TP’d during a portal if they are not on the ship.

Sometimes, my crewmate is busy with an Ashen Lord while I am sailing around. If we would find ourselves on an empty server, he could be whisked away during or at the end of the encounter while I may not have enough time to get back. Won't be happy about that.

Someone performs some stealthy play with ship far away (or sunk), sinks the alliance around a fort, alliance gives up by quitting the session, server is empty but one ship - server merge incoming …

There are other scenarios where crewmates might not be close enough together or people not close to their ship that might be ruined. I am all for making exploiting impossible in this game, but this would not be the way.

I mean, you are both admitting to exploiting the current server merge mechanic and saying you want to get rid of exploits. Either you are for exploits or not, half measures do nothing but let players pick and choose off their personal preferences.

I am what ? Where do I say we exploit current merge mechanic ?
We split up once in a while not when we know we are the only ship on the server, we just do sometimes. I used an example from a real session where your solution would be problematic if during that scenario the server would become empty.
If it would happen in the current situation, we would cuss when he got killed and returning from the ferry we are merged.

I am personally fine with exactly how it is. No way to cheese it either as you never know when it will come. So you can either be a man down for quite some time, or not concern yourself with getting merged. I was simply playing devil's advocate and showing a way a warning could be implemented and prevent exploiting at the same time.

It would ruin some scenarios, as I explained, so I'd rather not have something like that implemented.

There are also unfortunately server issues and maintenance that would never work with warnings. A server encounters a critical error or other issue that if left without a reboot or cold start would lead to a crash. So it merges the players out and does so. Servers running out of resources (all programs have memory leak, no matter how small it might be)

5 minutes is also plenty of time to get to whatever island a crew mate is on outside of them being literally more than half the map away from the ship though. Stealth plays could be solved by tethering TP/island/loot state save to your rowboat similar to when you ship is parked near an island/floating loot during a merge (lets be real, all but noobs spot mermaids easy if someone swam there)

In the scenario where a person is left alone after the rest left, can he empty the fort, put it in a rowboat and row to an outpost in 5 minutes or take the chance his ship spawns within 5 minutes sail ? Don't think so.

In the other scenario (split crew), if we add the one on the ship is doing a ghost fleet voyage. They need all of a sudden to decide which thing to take to the next server (if that would be even possible). Don't think you can merge while in a world event -- ooh found a way to exploit the 5 minute warning …

All of your issues could be solved by tethering to a rowboat in a similar way players tether to a ship for a merge as I stated. The last rowboat you interacted with could be the trigger for the tether. Rowboat and ship split up? Both merge the same way. There isn't a reason this couldn't be done for the save state of the surrounding area of two locations as merges are supposed to drop you into a server where there isn't another crew literally on top of you. The game could also tell which interaction you did last so if you dock your rowboat and grab an interaction on the ship, your tether becomes the ship. It all amounts to how motivated their coders are. It is certainly not a limitation of the game engine. Swimming without a rowboat? That's a risk you take.

As far as I am aware, once a world event is beaten, or you leave the render area of it, a merge can happen. Again, keeping a world event alive via a crew member on a rowboat seems extremely silly for once again being one crew member down.

On Sea of Thieves, server hops you!

@kommodoreyenser said in 5 Minutes Server-Merge Warning:

@lem0n-curry said in 5 Minutes Server-Merge Warning:

@kommodoreyenser said in 5 Minutes Server-Merge Warning:

@lem0n-curry said in 5 Minutes Server-Merge Warning:

@kommodoreyenser said in 5 Minutes Server-Merge Warning:

Well if they started giving warning, to avoid exploiting, the game could simply TP all crew back to the ship then merge. Similarly to how any crew get TP’d during a portal if they are not on the ship.

Sometimes, my crewmate is busy with an Ashen Lord while I am sailing around. If we would find ourselves on an empty server, he could be whisked away during or at the end of the encounter while I may not have enough time to get back. Won't be happy about that.

Someone performs some stealthy play with ship far away (or sunk), sinks the alliance around a fort, alliance gives up by quitting the session, server is empty but one ship - server merge incoming …

There are other scenarios where crewmates might not be close enough together or people not close to their ship that might be ruined. I am all for making exploiting impossible in this game, but this would not be the way.

I mean, you are both admitting to exploiting the current server merge mechanic and saying you want to get rid of exploits. Either you are for exploits or not, half measures do nothing but let players pick and choose off their personal preferences.

I am what ? Where do I say we exploit current merge mechanic ?
We split up once in a while not when we know we are the only ship on the server, we just do sometimes. I used an example from a real session where your solution would be problematic if during that scenario the server would become empty.
If it would happen in the current situation, we would cuss when he got killed and returning from the ferry we are merged.

I am personally fine with exactly how it is. No way to cheese it either as you never know when it will come. So you can either be a man down for quite some time, or not concern yourself with getting merged. I was simply playing devil's advocate and showing a way a warning could be implemented and prevent exploiting at the same time.

It would ruin some scenarios, as I explained, so I'd rather not have something like that implemented.

There are also unfortunately server issues and maintenance that would never work with warnings. A server encounters a critical error or other issue that if left without a reboot or cold start would lead to a crash. So it merges the players out and does so. Servers running out of resources (all programs have memory leak, no matter how small it might be)

5 minutes is also plenty of time to get to whatever island a crew mate is on outside of them being literally more than half the map away from the ship though. Stealth plays could be solved by tethering TP/island/loot state save to your rowboat similar to when you ship is parked near an island/floating loot during a merge (lets be real, all but noobs spot mermaids easy if someone swam there)

In the scenario where a person is left alone after the rest left, can he empty the fort, put it in a rowboat and row to an outpost in 5 minutes or take the chance his ship spawns within 5 minutes sail ? Don't think so.

In the other scenario (split crew), if we add the one on the ship is doing a ghost fleet voyage. They need all of a sudden to decide which thing to take to the next server (if that would be even possible). Don't think you can merge while in a world event -- ooh found a way to exploit the 5 minute warning …

All of your issues could be solved by tethering to a rowboat in a similar way players tether to a ship for a merge as I stated. The last rowboat you interacted with could be the trigger for the tether. Rowboat and ship split up? Both merge the same way. There isn't a reason this couldn't be done for the save state of the surrounding area of two locations as merges are supposed to drop you into a server where there isn't another crew literally on top of you.

As currently you might be merged to another server with another ship close by, having two locations with an area without others to suddenly appear close might be too much to ask. At least it isn't a simple change in mechanics to implement. Probably why merge happens only when everyone is on the ship ...
If one is at an active world event and the merge happens, the server you spawn into shouldn't have a world event, making the choice of servers more limited. It also shouldn't spawn the same world-event at the same location, wouldn't be fun to do the fort again when half your loot is still in the vault (if it even remains there until you beat it again).

I am not sure how they implemented the merge algorithm, but besides having circumstances on the server you're on, there probably are also circumstances on the server you might go to to consider; those circumstances might change in the 5 minutes, making adjusting the algorithm for merging harder (and lets be honest more susceptible to unwanted behaviour).
I'd rather have them concentrate on improving the current merging, so the 5 minute warning is not needed then introduce a boatload of other issues, including ways to bypass or cheese.

The game could also tell which interaction you did last so if you dock your rowboat and grab an interaction on the ship, your tether becomes the ship. It all amounts to how motivated their coders are. It is certainly not a limitation of the game engine. Swimming without a rowboat? That's a risk you take.

As far as I am aware, once a world event is beaten, or you leave the render area of it, a merge can happen. Again, keeping a world event alive via a crew member on a rowboat seems extremely silly for once again being one crew member down.

Not something we do, but some people might be motivated to do for example an Athena or get an Emissary to Grade 5 with one person less if it means they are undisturbed by others (plus the loot the one person gets doing the world event). It's no different or harder than 2-manning a brig, 3-crew Galleon or solo-slooping - easier even as you don't have to worry about other crews.

@schwammlgott that doesn't make any sense. "You can practically make a PvE server" by giving a server merge warning or not? Why not give both ends the heads up to either prepare battle stations or strategize or retreat and sell?

@lem0n-curry said in 5 Minutes Server-Merge Warning:

@kommodoreyenser said in 5 Minutes Server-Merge Warning:

@lem0n-curry said in 5 Minutes Server-Merge Warning:

@kommodoreyenser said in 5 Minutes Server-Merge Warning:

@lem0n-curry said in 5 Minutes Server-Merge Warning:

@kommodoreyenser said in 5 Minutes Server-Merge Warning:

Well if they started giving warning, to avoid exploiting, the game could simply TP all crew back to the ship then merge. Similarly to how any crew get TP’d during a portal if they are not on the ship.

Sometimes, my crewmate is busy with an Ashen Lord while I am sailing around. If we would find ourselves on an empty server, he could be whisked away during or at the end of the encounter while I may not have enough time to get back. Won't be happy about that.

Someone performs some stealthy play with ship far away (or sunk), sinks the alliance around a fort, alliance gives up by quitting the session, server is empty but one ship - server merge incoming …

There are other scenarios where crewmates might not be close enough together or people not close to their ship that might be ruined. I am all for making exploiting impossible in this game, but this would not be the way.

I mean, you are both admitting to exploiting the current server merge mechanic and saying you want to get rid of exploits. Either you are for exploits or not, half measures do nothing but let players pick and choose off their personal preferences.

I am what ? Where do I say we exploit current merge mechanic ?
We split up once in a while not when we know we are the only ship on the server, we just do sometimes. I used an example from a real session where your solution would be problematic if during that scenario the server would become empty.
If it would happen in the current situation, we would cuss when he got killed and returning from the ferry we are merged.

I am personally fine with exactly how it is. No way to cheese it either as you never know when it will come. So you can either be a man down for quite some time, or not concern yourself with getting merged. I was simply playing devil's advocate and showing a way a warning could be implemented and prevent exploiting at the same time.

It would ruin some scenarios, as I explained, so I'd rather not have something like that implemented.

There are also unfortunately server issues and maintenance that would never work with warnings. A server encounters a critical error or other issue that if left without a reboot or cold start would lead to a crash. So it merges the players out and does so. Servers running out of resources (all programs have memory leak, no matter how small it might be)

5 minutes is also plenty of time to get to whatever island a crew mate is on outside of them being literally more than half the map away from the ship though. Stealth plays could be solved by tethering TP/island/loot state save to your rowboat similar to when you ship is parked near an island/floating loot during a merge (lets be real, all but noobs spot mermaids easy if someone swam there)

In the scenario where a person is left alone after the rest left, can he empty the fort, put it in a rowboat and row to an outpost in 5 minutes or take the chance his ship spawns within 5 minutes sail ? Don't think so.

In the other scenario (split crew), if we add the one on the ship is doing a ghost fleet voyage. They need all of a sudden to decide which thing to take to the next server (if that would be even possible). Don't think you can merge while in a world event -- ooh found a way to exploit the 5 minute warning …

All of your issues could be solved by tethering to a rowboat in a similar way players tether to a ship for a merge as I stated. The last rowboat you interacted with could be the trigger for the tether. Rowboat and ship split up? Both merge the same way. There isn't a reason this couldn't be done for the save state of the surrounding area of two locations as merges are supposed to drop you into a server where there isn't another crew literally on top of you.

As currently you might be merged to another server with another ship close by, having two locations with an area without others to suddenly appear close might be too much to ask. At least it isn't a simple change in mechanics to implement. Probably why merge happens only when everyone is on the ship ...
If one is at an active world event and the merge happens, the server you spawn into shouldn't have a world event, making the choice of servers more limited. It also shouldn't spawn the same world-event at the same location, wouldn't be fun to do the fort again when half your loot is still in the vault (if it even remains there until you beat it again).

I am not sure how they implemented the merge algorithm, but besides having circumstances on the server you're on, there probably are also circumstances on the server you might go to to consider; those circumstances might change in the 5 minutes, making adjusting the algorithm for merging harder (and lets be honest more susceptible to unwanted behaviour).
I'd rather have them concentrate on improving the current merging, so the 5 minute warning is not needed then introduce a boatload of other issues, including ways to bypass or cheese.

The game could also tell which interaction you did last so if you dock your rowboat and grab an interaction on the ship, your tether becomes the ship. It all amounts to how motivated their coders are. It is certainly not a limitation of the game engine. Swimming without a rowboat? That's a risk you take.

As far as I am aware, once a world event is beaten, or you leave the render area of it, a merge can happen. Again, keeping a world event alive via a crew member on a rowboat seems extremely silly for once again being one crew member down.

Not something we do, but some people might be motivated to do for example an Athena or get an Emissary to Grade 5 with one person less if it means they are undisturbed by others (plus the loot the one person gets doing the world event). It's no different or harder than 2-manning a brig, 3-crew Galleon or solo-slooping - easier even as you don't have to worry about other crews.

There is just really no reason to change the current merging at the end of the day. The most they need to do is weed out the random glitched merges where one ship gets dropped literally on top of another at an outpost.

@kommodoreyenser said in 5 Minutes Server-Merge Warning:

There is just really no reason to change the current merging at the end of the day. The most they need to do is weed out the random glitched merges where one ship gets dropped literally on top of another at an outpost.

Agreed. Well that and having another ship 'just around the corner'.

Perhaps where a crew keeps a server from merging (either on purpose or by accident), copy the current server and then let new crews enter. The crew that gets moved will not miss out on loot, events and position, they just will be playing the game as intended - with other crews. I have no idea how much this occurs, if it's a very low number they should spend their energy in other ways.