My brother and I were discussing the games we play at a recent family function, and I mentioned that I was still playing SoT pretty regularly. "Oh, that game is dead!" he said. "Look - there's only 2.6k people watching it on twitch atm."
So, are twitch numbers an actual metric that producers and developers follow? Just how important is twitch?
@ntraills those are just the numbers of people who actually enjoy watching the Sea of Thieves twitch streamers. On drop days you’ll see every partner with around 1k views. When a pirates life released there were 100k people watch Sea of Thieves on twitch.
Twitch statistics also rely on certain times. When a popular streamer isn’t streaming, there won’t be many people watching. When partner is streaming they average 70-400 concurrent views each.
Okay, so it sounds like Twitch is a bit more complicated than an old fashion Nielsen rating for a T.V. show. People don't just watch SoT on Twitch; they watch a personality play SoT on Twitch, and their connection might be just as much with this personality as with the game...right?
But how important are good Twitch numbers to a publisher/developer? Is the life of a game determined by it's popularity on Twitch?
I am not arguing that SoT is dead. I'm trying to determine how important Twitch numbers are to it's continued existence.
You see to me, Twitch is the Undiscovered Country. I don't know anything about it, even though I regard it with contempt. I'm just interested in picking the brains of others better educated in Twitch and it's relevance to games I love, like SoT.
@ntraills I think the only folk who care about Twitch metrics are the people who stream on Twitch. The rest of us just play what we like, when we like and (hopefully) have fun doing so :)
(The rambling thoughts of someone who has been on Twitch regularly and modded streams there since 2014)
There are certain games that do better on Twitch than others. It's not a useless metric but it's definitely not a good way to read how popular a game is generally. The games at the top of Twitch's directory tend to be held up there by big streamers who gravitate towards more skill-based competitive games. It's much harder nowadays for games (and indeed streamers) to break into that top level - and stay there.
New World, as an example, is currently at ~5K but that could shoot up to 20K+ at any moment if one of the top streamers decided to play it today. Forza Horizon 5 is at 2K. There are games that are just more exciting to play than watch.
Sea of Thieves is a more casual experience, and that comes across when watching streams. Personally, I love watching others play the game but I can see why others would find it dull. And I don't think Twitch Drops help that, because they only keep people viewing (those who don't lurk) for 20 minutes and this is not the type of game that is constant action - often it can be a lot of low energy moments, punctuated by intensity.
The Sea of Thieves Twitch community, especially at the mid to low viewership is very social. You see the same folks around streams and the streamers themselves are quite engaged with viewers. It's a good place to go chat with others about strategies, tips and theories.
However, the current viewer number is not indicative of how alive or dead a game is, rather the time of year. December is always a funny month on Twitch - streamers take time off or switch up games, viewers have less time to watch, and there are new games people are playing. That's true in general for gamers.
For a game that's almost 4 years old, I would say it's doing just fine.
the importance is debatable, but it is certainly a metric of its popularity. so rather than the total # of concurrent views at any one time, I'd say the number of people streaming it would also need to be considered. As noted before, any instantaneous snapshot will be highly dependent on if the high popularity streamers happen to be on at the moment. Boxy is staying pretty dedicated to SoT now but Pace22's SoT time is really down lately (imo). Monitoring it over time (which the game publishers certainly do along with other platforms like YouTube, etc. along with their own user metrics) would give a better idea of whats really happening. There certainly are metrics and correlations being developed (or more likely refined) based on platform metrics. Any publisher would be foolish to not be monitoring this. They may not take actions to specifically address Twitch (or any other platform's #'s) but they may use those #'s to understand the impact of actions they have taken (marketing spend, feature/updates, etc....).
This is indeed a rather convoluted item to follow. As noted, it can vary on several items such as when Drops are active, when new content goes out, when Partners and other more well known streamers are actively streaming... It's just not a good place to try and pull your data from solely. Does it factor in to the health of the game? Certainly. Should it be used as the only place you're pulling your data from? Definitely not. The same can be said of the Steam players metric that people like to pull from. It takes looking at it from all angles and locations to really get a solid idea of how the game and community is actually doing. (And this can even include social media spaces.)
TL;DR: They matter, but are not a place to decide completely on health of game/community. :)
@aerotsune said in How important is Twitch?:
This is indeed a rather convoluted item to follow. As noted, it can vary on several items such as when Drops are active, when new content goes out, when Partners and other more well known streamers are actively streaming... It's just not a good place to try and pull your data from solely. Does it factor in to the health of the game? Certainly. Should it be used as the only place you're pulling your data from? Definitely not. The same can be said of the Steam players metric that people like to pull from. It takes looking at it from all angles and locations to really get a solid idea of how the game and community is actually doing. (And this can even include social media spaces.)
TL;DR: They matter, but are not a place to decide completely on health of game/community. :)
Only data that matters is the XBOX Live LFG and its never dropped below 100
@ajm123 said in How important is Twitch?:
@zerrryy slow claps
As long as this forum is around the community will exist.
And some of us, even return.
Hello Ntraills, i get the feeling that you are a Pirate with a Blessed young age , and , i fear i don't think like the younger generation anymore, probably a side effect of having too much winters behind the teeth... For me , personally , i do use Twitch to see if a game ,on which i have little or no information about , is worth buying and playing. A bit like a demo , but then played by people who, mostly, know how to play...
Now, for SOT and many other games , the feeling of watching streams is this : It's horrible , annoying and mostly a pure waste of time to watch . The only times i watch is to get drops , on which i have to wait for twenty torturing minutes to a streamer that yells , tells a few hundred times " Oh, my God" while the need to show their face goes above the joy of playing the game... it feels more like a personal promotion campaign of the streamer his/herself instead of putting the game and the forthflowing joy in the midst of the attention.
So this means that i hardly watch a stream without drops ,simply , because i rather play and experience the Joy of playing this game by myself and those who i encounter along the sailing...
The very few that i do enjoy are those streamers who just play without having the urge to show their face and background , because the reason why they play is the game and not their own promoting by the means of a game.Those are mostly streamers with little viewers , but their " down to Earthness " is for me a Blessing , for both mind and ears.
i also want to press on your Heart that you have to follow your own Heart and not what others say or what viewer numbers of a certain games says. It is not a crime to love a game that others condemn as "lame or death" . Talking about death , i don't think that the game has or is dying , because the only one that dies alot lately is me , and not by AI Pirates , Skeletons , Skeleton ships , Ghostships , Henchman of flameHeart who have eaten to much spicy food and release Ashen Winds and so on...
A game is death when you don't play or don't want to play anymore...Not because of Friends that tell you the game is dead because it doesn't reach a certain amount of numbers anymore...
So ,if you want to play , then just play , man . Every person is unique , and so are your tastes in all things in life , just do what you want to do , without being told what to do... Life is after all, way too short.
@ntraills said in How important is Twitch?:
My brother and I were discussing the games we play at a recent family function, and I mentioned that I was still playing SoT pretty regularly. "Oh, that game is dead!" he said. "Look - there's only 2.6k people watching it on twitch atm."
So, are twitch numbers an actual metric that producers and developers follow? Just how important is twitch?
devs love Twitch and like to lock unique content behind it, so most of those viewers you see are not actually watching the streams just idling on their phone for the drops. I personally hate it.
@miss-bun-e said in How important is Twitch?:
devs love Twitch and like to lock unique content behind it, so most of those viewers you see are not actually watching the streams just idling on their phone for the drops. I personally hate it.
that's a few days a month+
outside of that it seems to be channels have pretty active communities with a bunch of people that are engaged in the content and in the game
some of these people stream for 8-12+ hours at a time while people watch the entire time in a game where there is a lot nothing going on in between action
that's a pretty serious commitment to the experience. Many people play while they watch their favorite streams.
Smaller channels might not have the overall numbers of others but they have communities just as dedicated to the content and game and there are a lot of those channels.
I didn't grow up with streaming so to me it's not something I'm into on either end but this is a game that appeals to a lot of younger people that have been involved with streaming their entire lives and are quite invested in it which turns into game activity.
Twitch really isn't that important when it comes to this game. SoT doesn't have any competitive/e-sports leagues and most likely never will so there's not that draw for viewers, and the game in general just doesn't have the right timing to be particularly enjoyable to watch for long durations.
Even BoxyFresh's streams are mainly just him pounding back beers and talking with chat when there's no ship for him to sink.
I would argue that this type of game has such a wide audience of various playstyles that some people won't even know to watch Twitch. There are more casual players compared to people who will fully immerse themselves in everything related to the game.
On Saturday/Sunday, over 10k people were watching an animated snow globe to get cosmetics. That should say something. You figure 10-20x (guessing) of that were actually playing the game over the weekend
Game is far from dead.
Ahoy! A belated thank you to all that posted there thoughts here - I really do appreciate it!
(A special shout out to @aerotsune and @TheBlackBellamy for answering my question so informatively - much love, Pirates!)
Being a pirate that has yet to set sail in the waters of Twitch, I was completely ignorant as to it's importance (or lack of same), and I now feel much more informed. :)
the speed of the game is what tanks it in the end. the fact that not many will care to watch someone going from one side of the map to the other, because it can take 20 minutes if the wind is against them, is just a testament to the short attention spans and the need for instant gratification that is gaming. it's not a BR game, there are no rounds if something goes wrong so it doesn't start again quickly. the idea of this game as a stream, where people are out for a soul purpose, destroys its very premise; it's supposed to be an adventure and those take hours. every long term player has had words with hood ornaments on the bowsprit not helping... glazed eyes looking out at the horizon as you leave to grab a snack; it's not entertaining. the game is at its best when you make it yourself. watching someone go out to sink someone because they think this is somehow a rival to mainstream FPS's is comical. you can watch a couple matches go by in another game in the time it takes a crew to grab supplies, drop sail, and get going, then they need to find a target and that can take ages more.
