There is no way Rare doesn't know about this, but it makes zero sense that putting your sails in the position that creates the highest drag when sailing into a headwind is faster than having the sails in the position of least drag. This is bad for new players. Its bad for old players. Its a bug. Yes, the relative speed into a headwind should remain the same between ship sizes (sloop fastest, galleon slowest), and yes, you should still be able to sail into a headwind simply for the sake of playability (I am not asking for a sailing simulator). But the relative into-the-wind speeds should be true with the sails in the position of least drag.
Sails and headwinds
@alexrogansbeta its called suspension of disbelief in this case, sailing into a headwind irl is impossible and would send you backwards instead. it does look stupid but i dont really mind tbh and probably when they change it they have to make sure that the balance between different ship types stays the same
@callmebackdraft Which is exactly what I am advocating for: keep the balance the same, but change the way you "ought" to put your sails when sailing into a headwind. The way it is now is the least intuitive way it could be. Again, I am not asking for a sailing simulator where you CAN'T go into a headwind. I also want to continue to suspend disbelief. But I want to do so in the most sense-making way possible.
Rare advocates gameplay balance over realism for SoT. The logic in that sense is that fewer sails means less drag. Since the galleon has the most sails, it's the slowest directly against the wind; conversely, since the sloop only has 1 sail, it's the fastest of the 3 ships when sailing directly against the wind. In any case, aligning your sails to the center when against the wind only benefits the sloop, where it's faster than aligning them side to side when going against any kind of reverse-wind (↙️⬇️↘️) - the other 2 ships still sail faster against any kind of reverse crosswind by aligning their sails side to side rather than forward.
@galactic-geek I fully understand how the mechanic currently works, I am not advocating for a change to the relative speeds of the various vessels into a headwind. I am simply saying that putting the sail in the position of most drag into a headwind is unintuitive and thus bad for new players. It is also bad for old players cause we want the game to be as intuitive as possible for everyone playing so as to bring in and retain more community members. The amount of crews I have been part of who call this "set sails to stupid" should be telling.
@alexrogansbeta said in Sails and headwinds:
@galactic-geek I fully understand how the mechanic currently works, I am not advocating for a change to the relative speeds of the various vessels into a headwind. I am simply saying that putting the sail in the position of most drag into a headwind is unintuitive and thus bad for new players. It is also bad for old players cause we want the game to be as intuitive as possible for everyone playing so as to bring in and retain more community members. The amount of crews I have been part of who call this "set sails to stupid" should be telling.
Fair enough, but since the sloop is the easiest to sail, and the most likely to be sailed solo, making it so you have to adjust sails less often makes more sense in that context.
@methetron-mkii I think you're misreading what I am saying. I am not asking for a simulator. In fact, I am asking for the maintenance of something impossible: for a ship to be able to sail into a headwind. I still want every ship to do that fundamentally impossible thing. What I am saying is this: lets at least make the impossible somewhat intuitive.
Think about it this way. Basically, as it stands, every boat has a hidden, low powered outboard motor and sails. This is why each boat can go into a headwind. With a tailwind, they go extra fast because they sails can help. But they can still go into a headwind because of the hidden motor. However, setting your sails flush against a headwind amounts to the sails working against the thrust of the motor! It doesnt make any sense. But Rare's actually made that the optimal position for a boat going into a headwind!
What I want is for them to do the sensible thing and make it so that sailors need to account for that headwind by turning the sails in such a way that they create the least amount of drag. I still want sloops to be faster than brig, which are faster than galleons, into a headwind. After all, the hidden outboard motor would have greater thrust on a smaller boat. I just want the whole sail positioning thing to make sense.
You can eat fruit whole, including coconuts. You can use your sword to propel into and through the water. You can carry 10 cannonballs in your pocket. The anchor is invisible. There are skeletons and ghosts running amok!
I somehow don't think realism is at the front of the devs' minds when making this game.
Anyone new I've explained the wind to has thought it was silly, yes, but they concede it does make sense from a gameplay perspective.
@galactic-geek said in Sails and headwinds:
Rare advocates gameplay balance over realism for SoT. The logic in that sense is that fewer sails means less drag. Since the galleon has the most sails, it's the slowest directly against the wind; conversely, since the sloop only has 1 sail, it's the fastest of the 3 ships when sailing directly against the wind. In any case, aligning your sails to the center when against the wind only benefits the sloop, where it's faster than aligning them side to side when going against any kind of reverse-wind (↙️⬇️↘️) - the other 2 ships still sail faster against any kind of reverse crosswind by aligning their sails side to side rather than forward.
So hold up a minute. Are you saying if I'm against the wind on a brig, I should put my sails to the side and not squared but you don't do that on a sloop? This is different from what I've learned. I've learned when against the wind, you square the sails, no matter the boat you are on and the sloop basically does not benefit from wind if the sail is not billow.
@personalc0ffee said in Sails and headwinds:
@galactic-geek said in Sails and headwinds:
Rare advocates gameplay balance over realism for SoT. The logic in that sense is that fewer sails means less drag. Since the galleon has the most sails, it's the slowest directly against the wind; conversely, since the sloop only has 1 sail, it's the fastest of the 3 ships when sailing directly against the wind. In any case, aligning your sails to the center when against the wind only benefits the sloop, where it's faster than aligning them side to side when going against any kind of reverse-wind (↙️⬇️↘️) - the other 2 ships still sail faster against any kind of reverse crosswind by aligning their sails side to side rather than forward.
So hold up a minute. Are you saying if I'm against the wind on a brig, I should put my sails to the side and not squared but you don't do that on a sloop? This is different from what I've learned. I've learned when against the wind, you square the sails, no matter the boat you are on and the sloop basically does not benefit from wind if the sail is not billow.
If you're on a brig or a galleon, and going directly against the 🌬, you'll want to turn the ship to 1 side or the other (↖️ or ↗️; not ⬆️) to put the 🌬 at an angle (blowing ↙️ or ↘️), so you can catch some of it by putting the sails to the side with the 🌬 (⬅️ or ➡️ whichever way the 🌬 blows). Ideally, with those ⛵, you'll want the 🌬 blowing in any forward direction (↖️, ⬆️, or ↗️) where you would angle the sails accordingly to match. A sloop, however, works slightly differently. It's the same as the other 2 ⛵ in any forward 🌬 (angle the sails ↖️, ⬆️, or ↗️ accordingly to match), but if the 🌬 is going in any direction backwards (↙️, ⬇️, or ↘️), you'll want to angle your sails straight forward (⬆️) because any sail angle to the side (⬅️, ↖️, ↗️, or ➡️) will actually slow you down in that instance. Acceleration is a factor too. You can see this by watching the movement of the 🌊 in relation to your ⛵, or any static object (like 🏝 or 🗻 as you pass them by).
LEGEND KEY
↖️⬆️↗️
⬅️⏺➡️ = Direction
↙️⬇️↘️⛵ = ship(s)
🌬 = wind
🌊 = waves
🏝 = island(s)
🗻 = rock(s)The fact that there are debates amongst LONG TIME members of this community about what sail positions are best across the boats, and the fact that community members have made many different versions of sail guides, youtube videos about it, and Reddit posts explaining it over and over again is a testament to the fact that the current system is not intuitive or good in any way. Yes it works, and yes I understand it and use it to my advantage all the time. But it is a bad system!
@galactic-geek Oddly enough, I got all that.
So I was right for Sloop but not for the other boats. People always trying to argue with me.
Sloop basically wants the opposite of the other boats.
The other boats don't ever want against the wind and you should basically never do it.@personalc0ffee said in Sails and headwinds:
@galactic-geek Oddly enough, I got all that.
So I was right for Sloop but not for the other boats. People always trying to argue with me.
Sloop basically wants the opposite of the other boats.
The other boats don't ever want against the wind and you should basically never do it.You got it! 🪙😁🏆🎉💯
@alexrogansbeta 100% agree, why not make the game more intuitive and realistic with no downsides other than dealing with resistance to change? Its annoying to see this thread go off topic, I think it's a great suggestion. There is no good reason for all boats not to have the same or similar sail angle logic - yes the sloop is currently easiest to manage, maybe deliberately because of small crew sizes, but the sails already turn much faster and there is only 1.
17 out of 19
