How am I supposed to have fun in a game where hours of effort consistently result in everything lost and nothing learned?

  • SaltyCassandra
    Castaway

    Look, I'm not averse to difficulty. I'm not averse to challenge. I'm not averse to risk.

    What I am averse to, however, is having my time wasted in exchange for an experience that usually ends up being bitter, not fun or satisfying.

    I've played every Dark Souls title (including Demon's Souls); I've been invaded and killed. It can be frustrating, but it's always fun and always educational. Every time I fight another player, whether I win or lose, I feel like I get better, or at least learn how to better handle invasions. Even when I lose a shitload of souls and a lot of progress, I still enjoy it--after all, I can still go and retrieve what I lost, even if it takes time and is quite dangerous, because the invader hasn't taken my souls for himself and isn't still sitting on them. If I fail to make it back to where I had died, that's on me. Heck, I even play Escape From Tarkov, and that game is a lot more brutal about the stakes and a lot easier to lose everything in a second, from out of nowhere. The difference is that, even when I lose everything, I still got valuable experience and didn't waste such a colossal amount of time.

    In this game, though, I never learn anything from being attacked or hunted by Reapers. Even if my team is good, I'm still not learning anything, because my teammates can't just explain skills to me, and getting "practice" against players that can just stomp you in seconds is hardly helpful. Half the time, it's not even a matter of skills--it's just that a level 1 Reaper appeared on the server after it had had none for hours, right at the end of an Emissary buildup/quest, and they happened to spawn literally within sight of us and be on the same ship (sloop), so we had no chance in the first place unless we wanted to risk everything to fight players who specialize in PVP.

    And I just...I'm not having any fun. I'm not satisfied with the challenges I'm facing, because I either don't stand a chance, or I can't tell whether or not I stand a chance but I really don't want to waste three-five hours of my time in seconds with nothing to show for it (not even getting better at the game).

    I check into the forums for the first time, and apparently even DISCUSSION about PvPvE is no longer allowed, which is absolutely mind-boggling to me. If the players aren't even allowed to discuss it, the message being sent to players frustrated with this issue is to f-off and play a different game. Rather than "dividing the playerbase", it seems like Rare is just driving one side of the playerbase away permanently. Rare doesn't seem to understand that the new player experience is absolutely awful, now they're saying that no one is even allowed to discuss it?

    I could have loved this game. But after looking back in the past week, realizing that I've put a lot of hours in and yet feel like I'm wasting my time rather than having fun or being challenged (as opposed to just being completely stomped on all the time), I can't help but scratch my head. For the veterans who do PVP in Adventure mode, it's not about the money or rep; they don't really need it anymore--they do it for the fun of it. But for newer players or those who are more casual and just want to have a fun time, it's like having someone coming in and ruin hours of time/effort when you actually NEED that money and rep, and if you do try and fight, you'll just get stomped on in seconds, learning nothing because you don't even know what you don't know. The players who are best at and most prolific at PVP are also the ones who need money and rep the least; meanwhile, the ones who need money and rep the most are also the ones who have no chance and probably won't even get any experience to learn from because we don't even know what we're doing wrong (and we don't even want to do that kind of stuff yet anyway).

    I, as a new player, should not need to become proficient in PVP before I can even try doing the stuff I actually want to do--the PVE--without just wasting all of my time and feeling bitter at the end of it.

    Why should I even bother putting another three-hour session into this game?

    Heck, when I'm willing to sail past the edge of the map with my treasure, is it really fun at all for the Reaper who got lucky enough to spawn in on top of me to just chase me down halfway across the map over the course of 30 minutes of sailing in a straight line? It's insane. There's no way wasting so much time for something they don't even need at all can actually be fun--not unless the fun is entirely in ruining everyone else's. And if that's the kind of community this game has, I want no part of it.

    It's not so much dividing the playerbase as driving a lot of the playerbase and new players away. It's already divided; it's just that Rare's actions have ensured that a lot of them just leave.

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  • DISLEX fx
    Captain
    Insider

    I wouldn't play a game I didn't have fun playing.

    "How am I supposed to have fun in a game where hours of effort consistently result in everything lost and nothing learned?"

    -You're the only one that can answer that. I always have fun. If you're not learning something, that's not the fault of the game or the company that made the game. I could tell you to try and learn from your mistakes, but I don't think you want to hear that.

    "I check into the forums for the first time, and apparently even DISCUSSION about PvPvE is no longer allowed, which is absolutely mind-boggling to me."

    -There isn't really anything to discuss. You're playing a Player VS Player VS Environment game. The game has ALWAYS been this way and if that's not the type of game you want to play, then don't play that type of game. If that is the type of game you want to play, don't get upset (or whatever you are) when you don't come out victorious every battle you come across. If you want to talk about the PVPVE, talk about it in one of the thousounds of SoT communities. There are tons of Discord servers, websites, Youtube channels, etc. Rare probably don't care to hear you talk about your feelings about the game you chose to play, because you either ignored everything stating it's an open world PVPVE game, or you knew and still wanted to complain about you not being the best at this PVPVE game.

    "...meanwhile, the ones who need money and rep the most are also the ones who have no chance and probably won't even get any experience to learn from because we don't even know what we're doing wrong (and we don't even want to do that kind of stuff yet anyway)."

    Why should I even bother putting another three-hour session into this game?"

    -So many crews (especially veterans) are always taking newbs in and helping them out. I can't even begin to guess how many millions of gold I have given away because I knew someone was new. You can say you don't know what you're doing wrong, but there are so many videos and text articles and Discords to help people learn and get better at SoT. If you're not looking this information up, that's on you. You say ...we don't even want to do that kind of stuff yet anyway". Again, don't play this kind of game then.

    Also, are you playing with a microphone and communicating with other players? Not communicating in an ONLINE MULIPLAYER game isn't good. If you're using a mic., you're SO much more likely to have other players treat your better. Guess what, no one really knows how long players have been playing. You can't expect players to just know you're new or anything else, for that matter. I personally love sinking everyone, but if they talk, it makes me question sinking them. If we get to talking and they seem fun and friendly, it makes my session so much better. 99% of the players in the SoT clan I started are players I've randomly found while sailing around, looking for loot and fights. I used the mic. They used the mic. We talked.

    There are plenty of SoT crews that are always looking for people to play with. Life is better with a fun crew. Just leave the attitude at the door.

  • CotU42
    Lord
    Insider

    @saltycassandra

    You always stood a chance, you are a pirate identical to those that you face. The difference between us is skill based and experience. Our own abilities, choices and execution is what determines who is victorious. Either learn to fight, negotiate or do drive by selling while fleeing to secure the spoils you desire.

    The emissary system is an opt in for higher rewards and at a higher risk of other pirates coming for you as you signal that you have treasure and your ship itself holds value through the flag. The risks you take are those of your own choosing. Playing for hours on end without selling, hoarding loot and getting sunk to lose it all is truly on you. The treasure is not your until you sold it. Cash in when you no longer would be willing to lose it in battle... it took hours before you lost it, you had time to secure your fair share.

    If you did not learn from your encounter with others, maybe you should give it a second thought and analyze where things went wrong, what they did better than you and more importantly what you could have done. Sail into the red sea all you want and be a salty pirate... but don't then come here stating you enjoy challenges or can handle defeat with dignity. It will not make you better at the game, you will learn nothing from your actions and you should not complain about others ruining your fun if your tactics revolve around the denial of the spoils when being defeated. Those that sink, plunder and steal are at least doing it to gain something for themselves, the same cannot be said about those sailing off the edge of the world. Other crews are not responsible for your success and enjoyment.

    If guidance is something you seek, then you should ask for it. Crew up with others and learn from them. Those you face are not out to ruin your fun, but to enjoy the game for themself. Those that are have no need of gold and reputation are playing the game for enjoyment just thr same, they seek challenges and the greatest challenge of them all is other crews.

    Let me provide some basic tips:

    1. Never sail around with more loot than you are willing go lose. It is not yours until you sold it.
    2. Stay aware of the surroundings, regardless of what you are doing every so often, the more frequent the better, seek high ground and watch the horizon.
    3. Park properly, not to far from where you are, raise your sails and raise the anchor. Face the ship towards open waters and all you will have to do is drop sails to take off.
    4. Learn the sailing mechanics and how to do drive by sells. Fleeing in a straight line while providing distance is not enough to have others give up on a chase. A chase is a battle of will power, if it is easy to follow you it isn't likely you will break their spirit... make them work for it instead.
    5. Chill out and just have fun, win or lose whether you secured much loot or none at all. In the end the next time you boot up you will be the same as always. Everyone gets frustrated at times, but in the end... it is just a game.

    In the end decide what type of pirate you want to be and act accordingly.

    If you want to know the thoughts of the developers on PvE and PvP, they addressed it in the latest podcast and you can find a post with it on the forums. They shut down the mega thread as it has been going in circles, have a read if you want.

  • Kerkvlerk
    Seafarer

    I have been playing the game for about 500 hours in total mostly solo slooping and i still suck in pvp mostly because i just don't like PvP. its not SoT but i just don't like to PvP in general.

    What i do is whenever i just want to have fun without looking every 5 sec to the horizon to see ships wanting to sink me (wich mostly happens if i had a hard day at work) i join an alliance server. (they also stated in the podcast its not bannable or anything).

    In the weekends i mostly just play the "official" servers just to get the thrill of the possibility of getting hunted because if you only play alliance servers the game is really boring... like really boring.

    Also remember that atm there is a Reaper Event going on and everyone needs the emmisary flags to get the cosmetics. The last few weeks i am getting bombarded by ships without even finishing my first quest and have literaly nothing on board they just want the flag.

    And also remember pirate legend is nothing special you just do the same quests like normal for other cosmetics so its not a big deal if thats what your aiming for.

  • Mrat13
    Marauder
    Insider

    I'll give OP two simple tips: Either play with a crew, or play in Devil's roar. Playing solo in the rest of the map is a nightmare, regardless of what some people will tell you.

  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    People come in with sad tales as if we all haven't lived it

    This game is more new player friendly than it ever has been before. Every update has had something that leaned heavily towards casual and new player.

    Having 1 event to do and not much else and getting stomped over and over then kraken'd back when the kraken ate a lot of wheaties all so we could maybe bring in 50k after a giant battle was tough

    Now people can make hundreds of thousands solo and completely away from everyone else and pve has been nerf'd significantly

    Efficiency is victory

    Join server
    check around
    farm an area without other people
    use emissary and get it to 5 quickly
    sell
    rinse
    repeat

    You win sometimes you lose sometimes. It really doesn't matter because you'll eventually get there so why rush it? It's just a title or a skin it doesn't matter if it takes you a long time.

    As someone that went from being terrible with a very high loss percentage to earning hundreds of millions and owning all the items with most of the commendations done all through solo and open crew I can tell you that only really need to learn 2 things.

    Efficiency and perseverance
    That's all it takes. You don't need to be good at pvp all you need to do is be able to work smart and fast and not waste time on unproductive things.

    People don't have fun when they tie winning to enjoyment. This is not the game for a person that does that. We all sink and lose loot. That never stops. You have to be able to enjoy the little things.

  • Vaca Hombre
    Champion
    Boatswain
    Founder

    @saltycassandra

    Sea of Thieves can be an.... odd game to interact with. It's really not comparable to a lot of stuff that's out there now. It doesn't have the leveling system or loot mechanic of things like Dark Souls. Yet it lacks the immediate action of session based shooters like Overwatch or Fortnite.

    I feel like those who enjoy SoT most are those who find enjoyment in the game mechanics themselves. For example, I like to do voyages and collect treasure, but sometimes I also like to just sail aimlessly. I genuinely enjoy the feeling of sailing my sloop around the world and just seeing what I find.

    If you base your enjoyment of the game heavily on the success of your runs, it IS going to be difficult not to get frustrated. Because while you do acquire experience and skill as you play, it's all intangible. There's no real indication of your growth as a player like there is in Dark Souls. Also, as skilled as you are, many of your encounters are going to come down to favorable/unfavorable situations and pure luck of the draw.

    And if that just frustrates you too much, I get it. Like I said, it's kind of an odd duck of a game that can be really hard to get into. And there's no shame in that.

    But if you can find the rhythm and can enjoy the game for itself in spite of your voyage success or failure; I think SoT has a lot to offer.

    My suggestion would maybe be to do a few sessions where you do no voyages. Simply sail out and explore. Find some sunken ships, fight some sea monsters, try and sail through some tricky terrain, etc. Turn in treasure if you find it, but make it a secondary concern.

    Or just do something silly. Collect as many powder kegs as you can and set up a domino explosion on an island. Or just give your ship an explosive send off while you get drunk on the dock. One of my things is to load up on supplies (cursed cannonballs, bait, cooked meat, the works) and kill myself. Then I hang out on the Ferry and give away supplies to any pirates that pass through.

    Long story short; I think enjoying Sea of Thieves is based equally, or even more so, on your approach to it as it is to you skill at it.

  • D3ADST1CK
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    You're in full control of how much time/effort/gold/whatever you're willing to risk. If you don't want to lose 3hrs worth of loot, cash in more often.

  • BARMALEY7580
    Captain
    Insider

    @saltycassandra This is a session game, you are given a ship (this is a consumable) supplies and on the way. There is no balance in the game, Two esportsmen will constantly kill you after the revival. And if there are four of them, then you have no chance. Is it fun? No, not fun.
    There is no progress, there is nothing to strive for. Sinking other ships and destroying players is also boring.
    Most likely content cannot be added to this game due to PVP.
    I like games without co-op where you can always save progress or start over.
    I know this game is not for me, but there is no alternative

  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    @barmaley7580 said in How am I supposed to have fun in a game where hours of effort consistently result in everything lost and nothing learned?:

    @saltycassandra This is a session game, you are given a ship (this is a consumable) supplies and on the way. There is no balance in the game, Two esportsmen will constantly kill you after the revival. And if there are four of them, then you have no chance. Is it fun? No, not fun.
    There is no progress, there is nothing to strive for. Sinking other ships and destroying players is also boring.
    Most likely content cannot be added to this game due to PVP.
    I like games without co-op where you can always save progress or start over.
    I know this game is not for me, but there is no alternative

    If sinking other ships and looting isn't fun why did you start playing a pirate game and what did you expect from a shared pve/pvp environment based on looting and sinking?

    They have added a massive amount of content for pvers over the last year and a half. People love to nit pick but the fact is that there is a tremendous amount of stuff for people to do out there no matter their preference of play.

  • BARMALEY7580
    Captain
    Insider

    @wolfmanbush And I started playing with the closed alpha test when it was not clear which direction the developers were going.
    Who knew there would be no safe zones or PVE mode like in many other games.
    Single player that's what I need

  • JeroenXP1
    Ship Mate

    Me and a buddy mostly PvE and we have barely any PvP fights if we don't wish to seek it. So it mostly means you either don't check the horizon frequently and don't hand in loot once in awhile if you keep losing it. Also if issues like to many reapers are on the server then well nothing stops you to server swap.

    But yes even if you know what your doing to avoid PvP fights you will get into a fight once in awhile. Then its just try your best and learn and if you lose well then it shucks but that is part of the game, just shrug it off and play.

    This is one of the first game in some time i just play to have fun without having a main goal like get to max rank on X, and not care if i get more gold or a higher lvl with an faction. Because in the end its just cosmetics. IF all you seek is to reach a goal as fast as possible and don't wish to PvP then this is not a game for you.

    Also about the PvPvE or as in PvE servers discussion its because mainly devolpers had a view of what there game should be. Imagine if you made a game all about PvPvE interaction and some random player demands you put that time into a well working PvE only server. Do you really want to spend time on something you did not want to make in the first place ?

  • wagstr
    Master
    Insider

    My youngest lad only needed 1.5 MA level to get PL and we got sunk at the end of Thursday nights session and lost everything so I can understand people getting frustrated but you just have to pick yourself up, dust yourself down and go again.

    Friday night saw us turn in at least 3 or 4 times, by the time we hit L5 we were getting huge enough rewards from skelly ships etc and then literally stumbled across the wreck we were looking for earlier before we got sidetracked and I had the captains key so we turned that lot in and he did it.

    We went to an ashen winds event after he spent all his money in the hideout and ran into a sloop there and formed an alliance, he was a nice fella and our good session continued. Those types of encounters wouldn't be able to happen if we didn't have the thursday nighters as well and it all balances out in the end.

  • ThaGoochiestMan
    Master
    Insider

    @wolfmanbush I often see you around the forum (seemingly) criticizing people for their own opinion of this game and I really don't understand it..

    Like there are some aspects of this game that people might enjoy (i.e. sailing and exploration), and others they might not enjoy so much (i.e. tucking and spawn-camping), but that's also the case with every game...so idk why you seem to insist that players love this game with complete devotion or play something else..?

    There's a lot more in SoT to enjoy than simply looting, stealing, and being a pirate.

  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    @thagoochiestman said in How am I supposed to have fun in a game where hours of effort consistently result in everything lost and nothing learned?:

    @wolfmanbush I often see you around the forum (seemingly) criticizing people for their own opinion of this game and I really don't understand it..

    Like there are some aspects of this game that people might enjoy (i.e. sailing and exploration), and others they might not enjoy so much (i.e. tucking and spawn-camping), but that's also the case with every game...so idk why you seem to insist that players love this game with complete devotion or play something else..?

    There's a lot more in SoT to enjoy than simply looting, stealing, and being a pirate.

    Wanting to change the foundation of the game and spreading constant negativity about a game people don't even enjoy would be like me (as someone that doesn't enjoy rpg's with long cut scenes and a lot of dialogue) sitting around the forums of those types of games and just talking negatively about them and constantly telling them to change the foundation of their product

    It's a weird hobby to sit around wallowing in negativity and wanting to change the foundation of what others enjoy and signed up for.

    The game is welcoming to everyone but it isn't compatible with everyone's personality. No reason to act like this experience is something everyone will enjoy. A lot won't. They aren't cut out for it and that's fine but filling forums and social media with negativity for a game that they don't enjoy doesn't make anything better it just fills the community with unnecessary negative opinions that are based in what people want not what the product is advertised as.

  • ThaGoochiestMan
    Master
    Insider

    @wolfmanbush said in How am I supposed to have fun in a game where hours of effort consistently result in everything lost and nothing learned?:

    The game is welcoming to everyone but it isn't compatible with everyone's personality. No reason to act like this experience is something everyone will enjoy. A lot won't. They aren't cut out for it and that's fine but filling forums and social media with negativity for a game that they don't enjoy doesn't make anything better it just fills the community with unnecessary negative opinions that are based in what people want not what the product is advertised as.

    So in other words: "if you don't like it here, you can leave!"

    🤣🤣

  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    @thagoochiestman

    So in other words: "if you don't like it here, you can leave!"

    as opposed to sitting around and complaining and spreading negativity rather than being productive and adapting to the environment like many people have done

    People that don't like the game (and mostly because they lose) have turned SOT forums/social media into outrage twitter where people think the world revolves around them and have turned smack talking the game into a hobby.

    It's ok for people to not like something and move on to something they do like. Turning negative opinions into an all day hobby doesn't have to be the reaction to not liking something. There are plenty of games out there and plenty of other communities if they don't enjoy what happens here.

  • BurnBacon
    Vanguard
    Insider

    I quit dark souls when I realized dying and losing everything meant starting over. Wasn’t fun for me. Kind of a kill joy as well.

    But this. It has mercy. I lose loot, my ship but I can easily gain it all back, and maybe more.
    Even earn gold by simply playing

  • Vareg1986
    Seafarer

    @dislex-fx How bitter, ah. How many cases, when a brigantine floats at you, whence children's, disgusting voices shout "we are in peace" and after that a ton of nuclei flies into you.

    This game is a hotbed of toxicity and lies and is very frustrating as there are many beautiful stories and locations to explore. But people spoil everything. I really look forward to the introduction of private servers, as in the 76th fallout. So that you can go through the plot without being attacked by another mother's robber.

  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    @vareg1986 said in How am I supposed to have fun in a game where hours of effort consistently result in everything lost and nothing learned?:

    @dislex-fx How bitter, ah. How many cases, when a brigantine floats at you, whence children's, disgusting voices shout "we are in peace" and after that a ton of nuclei flies into you.

    This game is a hotbed of toxicity and lies and is very frustrating as there are many beautiful stories and locations to explore. But people spoil everything. I really look forward to the introduction of private servers, as in the 76th fallout. So that you can go through the plot without being attacked by another mother's robber.

    removing the subjective opinions on what is toxic and not it's not possible to be a hotbed of toxicity even with loose use of the accusation because there are so few interactions and they are so short

    even if a person is sensitive to gameplay and behavior they still aren't interacting with other pirates regularly because they aren't playing in a way that brings in a lot of interaction and the servers aren't set up in a way where it happens that much unless a person is pursuing it constantly

    I get into a lot more fights than the people that come in here complaining about toxicity and I rarely see any problems.
    Not liking someone doesn't make them toxic. Not liking losing doesn't make the winner toxic. Not getting what a person wants doesn't make the other people toxic.

    People have checkpoints now to continue the story
    piracy is part of every tale in sea of thieves

  • Vareg1986
    Seafarer

    [Mod edit]

  • Felix Ashur
    Seafarer
    Insider

    @saltycassandra
    Thank you for summing up the major issues with this game and it's community. Honestly? Rare could have taken steps to make things better, but unfortunately they are more concerned with the 'magic' of the game. Funny really... When I think of the last devs to use the term as much as Rare has been lately, I can't help but think of Bioware and Anthem.
    It's sad really. Especially when you look at games like Elite Dangerous which have active PvE servers and haven't suffered at all in the PvPvE department.
    Not to mention how Rare's decision has emboldened the gatekeepers on both this forum and others to keep pushing new players or anyone who doesn't play the game "The way it's supposed to be played!" away.
    I'm sorry, but if you are going to just give an entire portion of your playerbase, especially one that a lot of newcomers belong to, the middle finger by saying that they can't even talk about a way they believe the game can be better, then you are going to end up not getting as many players joining the game and more falling off as time goes on.

  • Vareg1986
    Seafarer

    @silverwing-525
    and if you remember Destiny, where there is pvp, and pve and pvpe, then it becomes even sadder)

  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    @vareg1986 said in How am I supposed to have fun in a game where hours of effort consistently result in everything lost and nothing learned?:

    @wolfmanbush [Mod Edit]
    A conventional new player enters the game, and the legendary pirates stab him in the face with a saber. They say - this is a pirate life, and if you don't like it - walk away from here, snotty *****. And the new player wants to fish, go through stories and enjoy swimming))) exclusively subjective opinion, I do not impose it.

    well
    alrighty then

  • BloodyBil
    Legend
    Insider

    @vareg1986 said in How am I supposed to have fun in a game where hours of effort consistently result in everything lost and nothing learned?:

    @wolfmanbush [Mod Edit]

    How disrespectful for real victims. Shows how disconnected from reality you are. PVP in this game reminds me of bumper cars, some people are crying they are being bumped into when it's the point of the game, while they just wanted to drive around peacefully, when other rides could give them exactly that.

  • wagstr
    Master
    Insider

    @bloodybil said in How am I supposed to have fun in a game where hours of effort consistently result in everything lost and nothing learned?:

    @vareg1986 said in How am I supposed to have fun in a game where hours of effort consistently result in everything lost and nothing learned?:

    @wolfmanbush [Mod Edit]

    How disrespectful for real victims. Shows how disconnected from reality you are. PVP in this game reminds me of bumper cars, some people are crying they are being bumped into when it's the point of the game, while they just wanted to drive around peacefully, when other rides could give them exactly that.

    Well said Bil, exactly that! What planet do these people live on when they can seriously make that sort of comparison? I find it deeply disturbing..

  • RiptideRando
    Ship Mate

    @saltycassandra

    I run an organization called the Navy Patrol whose purpose is to mentor new SoT players, assist the PvErs and soloists in their endeavors, and take the fight to the Reapers so unwilling combatants don't have to. It was created to assuage the bleeding out of (newer) players leaving the game in frustration and defeat as you have so aptly described in detail in your post. Like you, many of our members encountered the same difficulties and faced the same tsunamis of negative feelings in their efforts to enjoy the game, with the somber realization that there were parts they loved, and (perhaps equal) parts they hated.

    The Navy Patrol is also a place to find reliable and learned crew mates so that your voyages can be successful and memorably fun, instead of a source of ire and disgust. Our organization is a vetted microcosm of the Sea of Players, if you will, with the key focus of ensuring players are able to enjoy their game time and/or are still having fun.

    If you are interested in my organization and believe you could learn some tips, tricks, and skills to ensure greater success and keep the fun part alive, I would invite you to peruse our discord server. Both membership (we host guests that require our game knowledge and protection) and participation (actually going on Patrol) are completely voluntary. Oftentimes we just play the game in the usual fashion.

    It is my hope that you will come to see that you are not alone in your insights and experiences described above, but that some of us believe that the game is still worth fighting for. When your neighborhood is more foul than wholesome, you can opt to pack up ASAP and leave, or you can choose to stay and be the catalyst of change in your neighborhood for the better. We, as a small community of players, chose to stay.

    Only dead pirates sail alone.

  • dAnquememe
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @silverwing-525 said in How am I supposed to have fun in a game where hours of effort consistently result in everything lost and nothing learned?:

    Especially when you look at games like Elite Dangerous which have active PvE servers and haven't suffered at all in the PvPvE department.

    Elite Dangerous, for all its merits, has done an extremely poor job of implementing PVPVE.

    They say "it's a cutthroat galaxy" and that you need to be ready to defend yourself from opponents both player and NPC, but then allow you influence the BGS (background simulation) from Solo and Private Group mode, where no one can directly contest you (only indirectly by out-grinding you, lol, what a joke).

    In "Open" mode (their version of "Adventure"), there are zero rewards for engaging in PVP other than a pittance paid for collecting a bounty on a CMDR who has committed some infraction or another, and then if and only if you equip a special Kill Warrant Scanner and scan them first. Piracy is dead because carebear PVEers simply combat log before they can be interdicted, then switch to Solo mode to "turn off" the PVP altogether. So the net result is that ganking in popular systems is rampant, and it's done primarily because people have invested hundreds if not thousands of hours of grinding to fully engineer their combat ships, but then have no meaningful purpose to put them to.

    So they simply fight each other endlessly in popular systems and many, many newbies and lowbies get caught up in the process... at least until they, too, switch to Solo mode. Then go to the forums / Reddit / etc to whine about gankers and how they can't have friendly emergent experiences in Open because of them.

    When in fact the truth is, there is almost zero co-operative content in Elite. It's a singleplayer game that had multiplayer tacked on as a stretch goal, and in trying to be all things to all people, it completely fails. Other than being a spaceship sandbox simulator for singleplayers.

    Sea of Thieves has a vastly superior implementation of PVPVE and it's precisely because the devs DO NOT cater to those who want a singleplayer experience.

    There are fantastic co-op games out there - Valheim is a great example, and there are many others. But PVPVE games are a different thing altogether. Rare has done a fantastic job of holding the line and setting a standard by which it's completely fair to judge other efforts, especially Elite Dangerous.

  • dlCHIEF58
    Champion
    Insider

    @vareg1986 said in How am I supposed to have fun in a game where hours of effort consistently result in everything lost and nothing learned?:

    @silverwing-525
    and if you remember Destiny, where there is pvp, and pve and pvpe, then it becomes even sadder)

    LOL, in Destiny every one of those activities is separated from the rest - it is not a PvPvE game. It is a PvP and a PvE game, with one limited time mode which is PvPvE. Try again for a better example as this one falls flat to people who actually play it and know better.

  • ThaGoochiestMan
    Master
    Insider

    @silverwing-525 Very well said! 👏

    Sometimes I think Rare should just rename it to Sea of Fascism

  • Legendary Liz
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Moderator
    Founder
    Deckhand

    The discussion on PvPvPvE has indeed gone on long enough.

    And due to the ongoing combative nature of this thread and the number of flags we are receiving about negative sentiment being directed towards other players, the decision is to lock the thread.

    For anyone wanting information regarding the team's thoughts on PvEvP, there is a new pinned post here

    Thank you,

    Dropping anchor. :)

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