Red Sea: Loot Despawning

@scoobywrx555 said in Red Sea: Loot Despawning:

To those chasing; after how many minutes, unabe to catch, do you deem your chasing unsporting behaviour...

The same amount of time that it would be to consider running away unsporting behavior? Therefore the answer would be never. Neither the act of running away or following fall in the category of bad sportsmanship. The threshold of how long a crew is willing to follow is real is dependent on the pirates involved and how hard you make it to follow you.

Whilst I don't think it's the right to be able to make loot unreachable, there is that much loot on the servers being generated that it doesn't really matter too much.

If someone who has spent 3 hours collecting loot want's to effectively waste that time by red sea-ing (if that's even a word lol) at the slightest inclination of PvP, let them. It's no skin off my nose. I'll go find some loot elsewhere

@cotu42 or, instead if whining how unfair and unsportsmanlike it is, you just git good?

@valor-omega said in Red Sea: Loot Despawning:

@cotu42 or, instead if whining how unfair and unsportsmanlike it is, you just git good?

Who says I am not good? What exactly does that have to do with it?

Because if you read the post you would have seen that there were multiple outcomes where I would lose and still call it good sportsmanship. The fact of the matter is that good sportsmanship and good game design do not rely on victory.

If you and everyone else who whines about red sea loot dumping were able to catch people before they escape, you wouldn't be complaining about it. It's a sandbox game, and people can play however they want.

The irony that people are totally fine ruining someone else's session with spawn camping or something equally annoying and it being fine because "playing as intended", but when someone does something they don't like, it's unsportsmanlike and unfair.

Get good at catching people, or don't. But quit cherrypicking what is or isn't okay to do in a sandbox game. No one is obligated to fight you, or surrender their loot to you, just because you chased them for hours on end of your own volition. If you didn't sink them, you don't deserve the loot, simple as that.

@valor-omega

Imagine complaining about cherry picking and cherry picking what to read, since the response showcased it is not about winning or losing, the ability to catch people or their ability to get away. Yet all you state is that it is because we lose we call it bad sportsmanship and if we won we wouldn't be complaining. Simply because one doesn't like the outcome, does not make it bad sportsmanship and just because one has the ability to do it doesn't mean it is good sportsmanship and Rare should address it.

Just responding with witty one liners that aren't actually based on the arguments made, just voids the discussion.

If they ran into the red sea because I chased them, my actions actually caused them to sink...

@cotu42 I read and comprehended your comment just fine. All it boiled down to was was you want Rare to implement something to hinder players from loot dumping. You talked about such situations presenting a lack of agency for the chasers, yet you're asking for Rare to implement a change that would further take away agency for the players being chased. Rare does not need to make it easier for people to steal loot from people, simply because players choose to deny them loot. Get better at chasing, or being stealthy and prevent them from running before they can even think to do so, it really isn't that hard, I steal loot regularly.

Let's also not act like the pirate code is something sacred that everyone adheres to, because they don't. The pirate code also states that we should respect new players and their voyages ahead, but that doesn't stop players from ruthlessly sinking them, and trash talking them. So again, please quit cherrypicking things to make your narrative sound better.

It's fine if you don't agree with it, and you're free to have your own opinion, but don't expect or beg for Rare to do anything about it. PvP players begging Rare to make chasing easier is as silly as people asking for pve servers; it won't happen.

Bottom line is, once again, if you didn't physically sink a fleeing ship, you don't deserve their spoils. If you elect to chase a ship for however many hours, and the fleeing crew elects to deny you loot, that's no one's problem but your own. Running into the red is just as viable a tactic as repeated spawn camping, or any other devious act that players do in this game. All of it is okay, or none of it is.

@gallerine5582 My buddy made a good point the other night regarding this topic. Some players have finite time to play the game, and don't appreciate being tailed for hours on end - it effectively ruins their session. Especially if they get boarded and constantly spawn camped because they don't load in fast enough (spawn camping is just as viable as anything else, don't mistake).

That said, I can agree with and sympathize with players who've had their sessions ruined by people who've chased them, taking up their little time, and I understand why some choose to dump their loot. When your time has already been wasted and you know you aren't going to have a good outcome, there's nothing wrong with wasting the time of the other crew. Equivalent exchange. You waste my time, I'll waste yours.

In a pirate game where player choice/agency is the main point of the game, and players have all the tools to play however they like, it really gets annoying when people complain about how players to play their sessions.

@iceman-d18 This pirate gets it.

@luciansanchez82 I think the issue of what constitutes as a "win" is skewed for a lot of people, leading them to think that they've won, when they really haven't.

In my book, the only "win" condition is when you see the enemy ship full of holes, sinking beneath the waves, and eliminating any backspawners, and then grabbing their spoils, and selling it.

Too many people act like loot is theirs before it's even on their boat, and then throw tantrums when someone denies them something that wasn't theirs to begin with.

@uzugijin Something akin to the waterfall from Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End would be amazing, honestly.

@theswiftness999 The way the game is meant to be played is as an open-world, free roaming pirate sandbox game, where player agency/choice is the defining factor. If players want to pvp, they can. If players want to do tall tales or other pve, they can. If people want to spawn kill you for however long until you log off or scuttle, they can. If players want to deny people loot by dropping it in the red sea, they can.

Acting like one devious deed out of hundreds of other devious deed in a pirate world is very superfluous.

@theblackbellamy Agreed. All of it is okay, or none of it is. Player agency is the selling point of this, and any other sandbox.

@valor-omega

You are literally in favor of players going out of bounds in a game to prevent others and themselves of gaining the spoils? How is that agency limiting if it simply returns back into the boundaries? They leave the game field... Despawning loot in games is just bad sportsmanship.

Spawn camping does not take away agency, the players have ways to counter act and respond. I explained this and there are manners in which to counter act it by those enduring it. If you are spawn camping purely to cause a negative reaction instead of securing a sink or stealing, then I will call them bad sports just the same. It is literally the reason once can scuttle the ship, a game mechanic made to create agency for the ones pulling on the short end of the stick.

Once again you do not understand the premise of sportsmanship. Winning and Losing are not what determines good sportsmanship. In most situations one of the two parties is going to lose while the other is going to win. It is about having a tangible positive for yourself at the end and the intent to put yourself in a better position. The moment it is about purely causing harm and misfortune on others it is bad sportsmanship. Sure people can be a bad sport, nothing I state will change that fact and yes Rare has as with the scuttle mechanic or the brig for that matter already introduced mechanics to counter and provide agency to those that encounter it. They are the ones I hold accountable, they made the code of conduct and should hold themselves to those standards.

Prove me wrong, name one positive objective in-game benefit from red sea-ing for the crew that does it compared to simply scuttling or sinking.

I didn't physically sink their ship if they scuttle, if they crash into a rock, if they blew up by hitting a keg that was floating in the water, if they got destroyed by a skeleton shooting a cannonball.... literally the reason why someone sinks has never justified it from disallowing all pirates from reaching it.

You talk about double standards... while it seems you are the one with those double standards here. If you understood what I am stating, you can get off your get good high horse. For me personally I really don't care if it changes, I rarely encounter it to begin with... it is principle point of view for me. The fact that you tried to make it personal says a lot.

@cotu42

@cotu42 or, instead if whining how unfair and unsportsmanlike it is, you just git good?

Who says I am not good? What exactly does that have to do with it?

Its weird to defend these types of players. The red sea runners, that is.

Monopoly is a game designed to exploit people, you can economically bankrupt your opponents. There is plenty of tactics and strategies that you can employ to guarantee a win. One of those strategies include filling all the owned property with just houses without ever upgrading to hotels. This by extension creates a housing shortage forcing players to buy houses through the bank by auction only. They can't fully upgrade and you make the game go to a crawl with an attrition victory in your name.

Do you know what none of those Monopoly tactics include? Flipping the Monopoly board. The people sitting here acting like running into the red is some big brain, 5d chess, master-crafted strategy developed by Sun Tzu himself. It isn't hard to do, just as flipping the board is. There is no Git Gud here option here when their is Out of Bounds available in every direction.

People keep dropping the phrase 'deserve to win.' No one deserves anything, but its silly to think that the person who was ahead in Monopoly before the sore loser flipped the board has no justification to feel slighted. Nor does it give justification for the board flipper to feel vindicated for not letting the game play out to its inevitable conclusion.

Lets not pretend that anyone who does this is anything but a sore loser. At least embrace the title with pride if you are going to sit here and defend it. (Not you, you.)

@cotu42 It's not out of bounds, though. OOB implies an area that a player doesn't have access to, such as GM island on World of Warcraft to name one. The red sea can be freely sailed into, and even has a tall tale tied to it, hardly out of bounds.

Yes. I am in favor of allowing players to choose how they play the game, however that may be. A situation where Rare implements something that directly conflicts with that potential choice is limiting agency, which I am vehemently against. Chasers have the choice to chase or they don't, and the players being chased have the choice to fight or run.

I never said spawn camping took away agency. Actually I am all for it, as you can gather supplies, protect my crew while they're selling etc. I did however say that it can be annoying to deal with, and that it can ruin someone's session. Let's not put words in my mouth, yeah?

I understand sportsmanship perfectly fine. What you seem to not understand is that no one is obligated to act in that manner. Why is it fine for you to waste someone else's time, but not okay for them to turn around and do the same to you? The entire concept of "good sportsmanship" really falls short in this particular game. Any other game, I would probably agree, but this is sea of thieves, a pirate game, where you can choose your own adventures, and where attempting to/actually stealing treasure is a core game loop, and yet one crew suffering a monumental loss of loot at the hands of another still "causes harm and misfortune" on that crew. So again, if you waste someone else's time, they're more than in the right to do the same to you if they wish. Of course there's no in game benefit for those being chased, and electing to dump their loot. Then again, there's no benefit either way, other than for the chasing crew. So it's a lose lose for the players being chased.

Also touching on the 'kid with the ball' argument, and much like fleeing ship's with loot, the kid is in no way obligated to share their ball with the other kids, if they do not wish to. The other kids on the playground can go find another ball to play with, just like ships can go find someone else to steal from.

You're right, physically sinking a ship was a bad analogy. However in the case of a fleeing ship, it still stands that if you couldn't catch them, you don't deserve whatever they have on board.

Exactly what double standards do I have? I think that it's pretty clear that I am all for player agency/choice to do/play in however/whatever manner they choose. I believe that any play style (PvP, PvE, Passive, Aggressive, Alliance server, PvP server, red sea dumping, etc) are all valid ways to play the game, despite people's beliefs on those topics. I took it personally you say? Maybe that's partially correct, as I'm personally tired of people whining about this topic. As someone who's been a PvP player since the infancy of this game, I've learned various ways and methods to sink stationary, incoming, or fleeing ships, and I rarely have an issue catching them, be it stealth, or brute force. If I can't catch someone, I don't complain about it on the forums, I move on and find someone else to sink and steal from.

If anything "says a lot" about someone, it's that you fundamentally do not understand the core nature of the game, and that's no one's problem but your own, and you need to stop trying to tell others that they're poor sports for playing in a manner you do not agree with.

And if "it's just a game," that applies to the ones mad about this as well. Clearly the ones that run are content with their scenario and don't think twice about it. So brush off your loss, and move on.

@nabberwar No weirder than people defending exploits such as sprint cancel, but that's not what we are discussing.

I don't think there's a single person anywhere who acts like red sea dumping is a big brain, masterfully crafted tactic, but it is a valid tactic, like anything else in the game. If there is someone that believes that, that's their prerogative.

BS. There is most certainly a git good option, and it's called not letting them run away in the first place. Let's not act like that's impossible, because I and plenty of other players who enjoy PvP have stopped people from running on more than one occasion.

You're absolutely right, no one deserves anything, so maybe people should stop throwing tantrums when they don't get their way, and acting like they're entitled to a fleeing ship's loot, and then presenting an ultimatum of "if you run to the red and deny me loot, you're a bad sport."

I'm not saying people shouldn't feel upset or anything like that. It's annoying to be sure, but stuff happens and you can either get over it and learn from your mistakes, or continue to be a sour apple over it. I've dealt with these players numerous times and I've learned from the times I've failed to catch people, but do you see me complaining about it? I am however saying that people shouldn't demonize players who play this way, because again, it's just as valid a tactic as anything else in the game.

@nabberwar said in Red Sea: Loot Despawning:

@cotu42

@cotu42 or, instead if whining how unfair and unsportsmanlike it is, you just git good?

Who says I am not good? What exactly does that have to do with it?

Its weird to defend these types of players. The red sea runners, that is.

Monopoly is a game designed to exploit people, you can economically bankrupt your opponents. There is plenty of tactics and strategies that you can employ to guarantee a win. One of those strategies include filling all the owned property with just houses without ever upgrading to hotels. This by extension creates a housing shortage forcing players to buy houses through the bank by auction only. They can't fully upgrade and you make the game go to a crawl with an attrition victory in your name.

Do you know what none of those Monopoly tactics include? Flipping the Monopoly board. The people sitting here acting like running into the red is some big brain, 5d chess, master-crafted strategy developed by Sun Tzu himself. It isn't hard to do, just as flipping the board is. There is no Git Gud here option here when their is Out of Bounds available in every direction.

People keep dropping the phrase 'deserve to win.' No one deserves anything, but its silly to think that the person who was ahead in Monopoly before the sore loser flipped the board has no justification to feel slighted. Nor does it give justification for the board flipper to feel vindicated for not letting the game play out to its inevitable conclusion.

Lets not pretend that anyone who does this is anything but a sore loser. At least embrace the title with pride if you are going to sit here and defend it. (Not you, you.)

It is not "flipping the board" as you and others state or imply, it is playing to a stalemate which is a perfectly acceptable strategy in the most strategic game in the world - Chess. Granted it is not the most desirable outcome but a valid one nonetheless....and not a loss either.

If Rare had an issue with people sailing treasure off the board, don't you think the design would have been different than it is? Now if this behavior happened in a competitive mode like Arena, then yes it would be unsporting. But Adventure is NOT a competitive mode nor Arena - it is an open-ended adventure game. And being an open-ended adventure, there are no set definitions for "victory" so how can you call someone's play style unsporting if there are no defined terms of victory? Not every outcome has to have a winner, same as in life.

Funny how some people are claiming this strategy/tactic/action is unsportsmanlike yet support such things as spawn camping (the cheesiest, lowest skill "tactic" ever done in games) or killing players before they spawn in fully are not and have no issue teaming up on smaller ships/crews. You can't have it both ways. If you want sporting behavior, don't cherry-pick the ones that benefit you as acceptable and those that don't as "bad behavior". This is a game about pirates, cutthroats, marauders and skally-wags that care nothing about being sporting or fair. (Note: I'm not advocating for any of those things I mentioned to be removed or changed artificially, just pointing out the hypocrisy of those complaining about red sea runners).

Simply put, the treasure is not yours until it is turned in - regardless of your play style.

@dlchief58 Well said, mate.

How is running into the Red Sea considered anything but a loss for the one running away? I understand it's a tactic and is perfectly okay to do so. I can only laugh it off that someone would be so scared to defend their loot that they'd rather give it up entirely rather than "fight like a man" for a lack of better terms. Besides, someone can spend 2-3 hours stacking loot, and run away for 30 minutes to an hour, just to sink themselves in the red sea. They obviously wasted more time and hardwork than the person chasing them. How can anyone not consider that a loss? That's why I don't mind if people run away to the Red Sea, they're admitting they can't defend themselves and would rather give up rather than fight for their loot. Oh well, they wasted far greater more time than the person chasing.

@momsnewdaddy I don't think the runners really care if they lost it all. Especially those with tons of gold, losing a couple hundred thousand isn't really a big deal. Some just like the salty reactions that are heard from chasers.

@valor-omega

Right the red sea is not out of bounds, that is why you sink there and we are unable to gather any treasure that floats there ("OOB implies an area that a player doesn't have access to" - seems to apply here doesn't it?). Who... is exactly is being disingenuous now?

If you claim as a veteran you cannot escape a chase, do something against someone that chases you? Are you incapable of doing drive by sells.... and you want to tell me to get good? Lets be real here... There are actions that one being chased can do to secure a victory. If you value the treasure and want to claim it... you have the face or avoid the threats that are upon the seas. As a PvPer I would have assumed you would understand that aspect. It is just a game and those that go out of their way to crate lose/lose situations, which is what the red sea is, you are just bad sports and that is exactly what despawning loot is. I don't understand the nature of the game? You aren't the only veteran here. You are the one that now states that the unclaimed treasure is theirs - their ball? Treasure isn't yours until you sold it, once you lose possession of it you no longer should have a say in who can collect it. If you want to claim it is in the spirit of the game, then anyone should be able to fish it out of the depths of the seas after you lost your ship and yet that is impossible. The fact that you agree there is no benefit for those that sink, if they truly want to stop you from getting your hands on it... they should sell it and actually claim it as their own. Use any means necessary to get it cashed in... at that point it is their ball.

Rare has the power to change this and there is a pretty easy solution they could implement, just move the ball back into the field... after all it is nobodies possession. They have stated they want to create a game that includes a standard of good sportsmanship - they are the ones that created the code of conduct and made these statement you say we don't need to follow, but shouldn't Rare act in accordance with their own code? Why are you so angry if people ask for a constantly evolving game to remove a lose/lose situation in a game, are you that in favor of people purely playing to take pleasure in the loss of others?

If you want to waste my time by running away, be my guest.
If you want to spawn camp me, be my guest.
If you want to drop the treasure mid chase in areas that I can reach, be my guest.

The issue with the red sea is the out of bounds issue, not the agency of people's ability to do things that I might not like.

@dlchief58

How is it a stalemate if you move your pieces off the board, just so your opponent can no longer hit them? That is what the red sea is, the border of the map... The issue I have is simply the moving it out of the reach of others by moving it out of boundaries of the game. A stalemate is created when both parties in chess have no moves to make that could result in a victory or valid moves for the one that is unable to create a check-mate situation, else the approval of both parties has to be given to call a remise. Yet the ones heading into the red sea have multiple options they could do, even simply stop running and fight and see how it turns out is still a valid move they could make.

Who is cherry picking here, I would like Rare to resolve the ability to shoot and kill people before they have control of their character... dying in a black screen is problematic, yet that is a totally different topic. The ability to sit on someone's ship in general and kill them repeatedly to ensure a sink, yeah not bad sportsmanship as it has in game tangible benefits of preventing someone to board up the holes in their ship or prevent them from shooting at yours. Running away with the loot not bad sportsmanship. I even stated dropping the treasure off your ship into the sea, while running isn't bad sportsmanship - also not something I like... but just because I don't like it doesn't make it bad sportsmanship, as the treasure is still within the boundaries of the game and able to be grabbed. It puts those chasing in a dilemma; keep chasing or retrieve what has already been dropped. It is funny how people fail to see the nuances in the conversation and try to pull in other topics. Whataboutism is really not a constructive counter argument of the fact that people are moving treasure out of the playfield where they can be retrieved.

If the treasure isn't yours until you handed it in, why are those putting it in the red sea claiming it is theirs and that they have the right to determine what happens to it? It isn't any longer on their ship and therefore should be fair game to be collected - ooh snap that isn't possible because it is out of bounds?

@cotu42 It's not out of bounds. The point in which your ship black screens is referred to as a dead zone. Dead zones mark where the physical map stops. That's a big difference than an out of bounds area. Again, out of bounds implies an area in which someone is not allowed/does not have access to go.

I think you've misunderstood what I've said. I never said I have issues getting away from people, as I'm the one chasing. If people want to try and drive by sell, more power to them, I'll Cannon over and kill them as they swim to the island. My entire point that I'm trying to make is that some players don't care about securing the loot, and they want to get back at the chasing players for having wasted their time by chasing. You think people are always concerned about loot, but that isn't always the case.

Try not over analyze the parallel I made lol. Obviously the analogy of the kid with the ball wasn't fully comparable to this situation, but the core point still stands. You're right, loot isn't anyone's until turned it, but those who have it on board are the ones in control of it at that given time.

Sure, Rare does have the power to change it. But they won't, because it's such a minute issue that can quite literally be solved by getting better at PvP. People ask for PvE servers, which would provide nothing negative for the game, and would only bring in more players to the game - more players is nothing but good for longevity purposes, yet PvP players trash on that concept every day, and are hostile to anyone that wants them.

So yeah, maybe when PvP elitists stop admonishing things that they don't agree with, while being totally fine other toxic traits that exclusively benefit them, I'll agree that red sea dumping needs to go, but that will never happen. You've got your thoughts, and I've got mine.

I don't feel like arguing with a brick wall any further on the topic (I'm sure you feel the same), so I sincerely wish you a good day, and best of luck on the seas.

@valor-omega said in Red Sea: Loot Despawning:

@cotu42 It's not out of bounds. The point in which your ship black screens is referred to as a dead zone. Dead zones mark where the physical map stops. That's a big difference than an out of bounds area. Again, out of bounds implies an area in which someone is not allowed/does not have access to go.

A dead zone is an area where there is nothing and is way before you actually hit the section of the red sea they want to reach, the fact that you get black screen to prevent you from getting there is literally the barrier that does not allow you to access that area which those people push their ship through to place the items there - your ship is destroyed by doing so; as the barrier does not allow you to be there. The placing of items behind that barrier is the issue and makes it out of bounds.

There is a distinct difference between a dead zone and out of bounds, the location where the loot is dropped is clearly not within the dead zone.

I think you've misunderstood what I've said. I never said I have issues getting away from people, as I'm the one chasing. If people want to try and drive by sell, more power to them, I'll Cannon over and kill them as they swim to the island.

If you can cannon over and reach them before they sold, in my opinion they failed to execute it properly.

My entire point that I'm trying to make is that some players don't care about securing the loot, and they want to get back at the chasing players for having wasted their time by chasing. You think people are always concerned about loot, but that isn't always the case.

Yet should that be done by placing items behind a barrier that makes it physically impossible to retrieve.

Try not over analyze the parallel I made lol. Obviously the analogy of the kid with the ball wasn't fully comparable to this situation, but the core point still stands. You're right, loot isn't anyone's until turned it, but those who have it on board are the ones in control of it at that given time.

Yet when it is in the water of the red sea it isn't on anyone's ship, my point is that the game shouldn't allow it to be behind an invisible wall that prevents of from reaching it. It isn't theirs and therefore once they lost possession of it, the game shouldn't prevent us from collecting it.

Sure, Rare does have the power to change it. But they won't, because it's such a minute issue that can quite literally be solved by getting better at PvP. People ask for PvE servers, which would provide nothing negative for the game, and would only bring in more players to the game - more players is nothing but good for longevity purposes, yet PvP players trash on that concept every day, and are hostile to anyone that wants them. So yeah, maybe when PvP elitists stop admonishing things that they don't agree with, while being totally fine other toxic traits, I'll agree that red sea dumping needs to go, but that will never happen. You've got your thoughts, and I've got mine.

If you agree it should go, then don't we stand here on the same side of the issue? Even though it might not be high on Rare's priority list it doesn't mean that we as the customers should just bow down and defend it?

Talking about other traits and aspects is just an argument of whataboutism, if this then what about that and if that shouldn't it be so and if so then why should the game ever change at all? Not every issue and every argument and every little thing in the game are linked directly to each other that if you change one thing that means everything else that might possibly be wrong with the game must change now as well.

@cotu42 Last reply, I swear haha.

I am aware of some people who take the loot to that precipice of no return, but a lot of the times the players that run just end up dropping it before hand, from what I've seen at least. It is entirely possible to retrieve the loot from the red, even if the fleeing ship despawned. I had an instance where I was able to stop my ship, and had my two buddies constantly bailing while I grabbed what I could with harpoon, and we then kept bailing as we eventually got back into regular waters.

I guess so, haha. I think a lot of players are too afraid to get too close to the outposts while being chased, out of fear of boarders. There have been a few instances where they would sail past the outpost, and tried to make it look like no one got off the boat by dismounting from the side of the ship I couldn't see. Luckily not many people know how to loot juggle, so it wasn't hard to kill them in the water.

Again though, it's not impossible to do, just rather difficult. Nothing other than the threat of ship despawn and maybe boarders that jumped off would prevent from collecting once the other ship sinks. It's difficult to be sure, but far from impossible if you can play your cards right. I try and raise up sails several feet from what looks to be the actual edge of the map on the table, my buddy relays the message as my other buddy and i are on sails, then we have two dedicated bailers while the other harpoons.

I guess I worded that last bit poorly. I meant that I would be more inclined to agree that red sea dumping is bad, if other PvP players would admit that some of the things things do is just as, if not more shady and annoying. Was more of a bit of hyperbole on my part, but it wasn't communicated well enough, my bad. Red sea dumping, and other equally devious actions in games may not be mutually exclusive to one another, but it starts to make one question what's worth complaining about.

Let's look at it from a completely outside perspective. I hate continually referring to it, but the issue of whether or not PvE servers should be added is a hot debate to be sure, and a great deal of animosity and negativity regarding the issue comes from the elitist PvP community, who adamantly oppose it, despite the plethora of good things that it could and would bring to the game; more players, etc. You have to admit that some of the things that PvP players are fine with and not fine with seem very biased in only their favor, and not anyone else's (red sea dumping negatively impacts chasers, pve servers would supposedly take loot away from pvp players, getting rid of the sprint cancel exploit would ruin double gun for pvp players, etc etc).

Despite being a pvp player myself, it's easy to see that there is a clear bias in the favor of the more elitist players in the pvp community, and whenever players present ideas or concepts that they don't agree with, they trash on the topic, and in cases harass those that are in favor with/agree with the proposed changes.

I personally believe that removing the ability to dump loot, or rather to make loot float back in only positively impacts the chasers, and gives nothing to those being chased. I think that if back and front cannons were potentially added, it might bolster those experiences, because as it is now, running and chasing is entirely dependent on whether someone gets out of range first and fast enough.

So if Rare feels the need to remove that choice from the runners, they should implement more ways to counteract chasers, other than flat out turning around and fighting, and still losing.

@valor-omega

Other aspects like PvP actions and the PvE servers are all unrelated to this specific issue, it is simply a whataboutism approach and really derails the topic; you can always make excuses why something shouldn't be changed because something else is not ideal. It is bad justification to not have something changed. If you want to talk about the PVE visit the mega thread and just as many there you are making the assumption that people only see it from one perspective or represent just one side, while many players play both aspects of the game. You might be a dedicated PvP player while I on the other hand been chased and have chased. I lean towards a PvE player, while many tend to place me on the PvP side as I also enjoy PvP. I enjoy PvEvP games and the whole point is the balance between the two elements, their ability to both achieve their goals and the ability to switch at will.

You believe it negatively impacts the ones fleeing? In what way exactly, they lost the loot and aren't able to retrieve it... If you red sea properly you will be black screened before you are able to retrieve the loot, just because people fail doesn't change that fact; I have tried with a rowboat with harpoon. It also makes it impossible for solos to get even if they didn't manage to get it in the exact proper place. Yes... people do this to a solo sloop while outmanning them, because you know fighting a solo sloop is a guaranteed lose/lose situation as you put it? People like acting like this is some last resort or there is no chance to come out victorious... reality is that everyone can do it for any reason. The query is whether it should even be possible. Once their ship sinks they aren't in control of the loot, it isn't in their possession and you are now literally arguing that it harms them... just because they don't get to decide what happens to it after they lose it? How does this logic hold true, while stating the loot isn't theirs?

There are many ways already in the game for dealing with chasers. Use land cannons, drive by selling, row boat plays, fighting them, using kegs that spawn in barrel locations and simply the ability to decide where the chase leads in combination with how the sailing works. If you are good at sailing and a bit of ladder defense, it really isn't hard to avoid the grasp of a crew. Literally if you are pleading for more options, while going on here telling people to get good... that is a double standard to have. I would like the sailing to be a bit more challenging, both to provide those that flee and those that chase more options to outplay each other; yet again a different topic. The get good applies to both sides of the equation, the better pirate wins and should be able to collect any loot that is left in the water. Feel free to chase me, I love giving PvP crews the grand tour... with narration of the Sea of Thieves while I sell my loot one piece at a time. I promise if you manage to best me, you can have my pinata ships loot or at least what is left of it.

@manipulatehavoc Let's not forget the classic rowboat selling maneuver. If you don't want to run and you aren't confident in PvP, then make sure you have a rowboat on at all times, and when you get in a PvP scenario you don't want to be in, just load the rowboat, go near a rock and hard turn, letting the rowboat go behind the rock while the enemy ship chases an empty ship. If you're quick enough with it the enemy crew won't see it and therefore won't get anything.
That aside, in my opinion it's always better to fight and lose for the experience so you can beat the next ship that tries to fight you.

@manipulatehavoc a dit dans Red Sea: Loot Despawning :

What are your views on this and should there be a fix to it or just leave it be?

I view it the same way I view people that Spawncamp others for the sake of making them feel bad.

Honestly, if one needs others to feel bad in order to feel better about himself, it's just really sad. :p