Red Sea: Loot Despawning

i would fight back anyway even if there is no chance of winning. experience worth more than loot, imo.

also, can't "fix" people's decisions.

+would be nice if instead of shroud we would have an edge where we could fall off to the abyss making the decision to redsea something or chasing someone off the map much more satisfying.

Sore losers. For as long as I've been sailing, I've never purposely destroyed loot. To me its just pathetic. I get it, we play as fantasy pirates, people known for being underhanded. However, regardless of the theme, this is still a game. In all games there is sporting behavior. Destroying loot so no one gets it falls away from that.

Grace in defeat is just as important as being humble in victory.

Running to the red = 100% chance you lose.
Turning and fighting = 25%-75% chance you win depending on crew sizes and skill level.

Doesn’t matter to me as someone who has never done it. I’d rather chance turning in my stuff than just admitting defeat and guarantee that I lose the loot.

@blackbeard-lufy said in Red Sea: Loot Despawning:

@kommodoreyenser Here's a hypothetical scenario.

I've been sailing solo for a couple hours and need to hop off and get ready for work so I'll head to an outpost to turn in. A galleon with absolutely nothing better to do tries to catch me for like another 20 or 30 minutes. I've got a few options....

1. Go to the outpost and try to turn in a couple pieces of loot before they ultimately catch up and get the rest of my stuff.
2. Let them 'win' and have my stuff and log off.
3. Sail it into the red because it's just gold and I'm not going to give them the satisfaction of 'winning' just because they have the time to waste on chasing someone relentlessly.

I'm going with option 3. If you want to waste my time, I can play that game too.

Lol, option 4: drive-by sell loot 2-3 pieces at a time. Galleon has an abysmal turn time and radius, couple that with needing a good crew to be constantly turning and changing sail direction to keep up, every time you pull a 180 they will lose more ground. You also have the option to board and anchor as they trail you.

You just head towards any outpost that is directly into the wind and continue to the next. If there’s isn’t one, you pull a 180 on them a couple times to gain distance.

I guarantee you aren’t running into sweats every single time you get attacked or chased. 99% of the crews that initiate with me lately are fairly new and extremely terrible at ship combat. They get sunk every time to a solo. Brig or galleon doesn’t matter.

@blackbeard-lufy drive-by selling takes less than the 30 minutes you said you have, when you actually do it properly. If you have that big a haul that it takes longer, you should of prepared ahead of time when you have to log off.

In the end, Red Sea just a guaranteed loss. I’m sure the chasers really don’t care that much in the end. People who chase for that long are usually just looking for a fight anyway and could care less about loot.

@blackbeard-lufy said in Red Sea: Loot Despawning:

@kommodoreyenser Well based on some of the replies here, some do quite care lol. Your frustration over losing my loot = my satisfaction : ). It's not a common tactic, but it's certainly in the toolbelt if need be. I don't chase people for that long trying to get their stuff personally. It is so boring.

Neither do I. I would rather peel off and let someone get cozy at an island then hit them. Makes for a much quicker steal.

If you are satisfied with losing, then more power to ya. Just don’t be in denial of what it actually is. I am fine with the way things are right now with the red. I usually laugh when someone does it. Just like when someone scuttles once they realize someone got the drop on them. Not even bothering to try.

@blackbeard-lufy said in Red Sea: Loot Despawning:

@manipulatehavoc People salty about red sea runners are probably the same people that spawn camp and dunk on solo sloopers with no loot lol. You get no sympathy from me.

Why would you assume that? I feel like running to the red is toxic behavior, and is something that people SHOULD get upset about. Red sea runners are usually just poor sports. They're the equivalent of the kid that gets mad and takes his ball home. A massive part of this game involves chasing down other ships and sinking them for the loot they have on board. If someone can't handle that concept, maybe this isn't the game for them. The idea of "if I can't have it, nobody can" is a very poor attitude to have. It's simply holding resentment towards, and preventing people from playing the game the way it's meant to be played.

@kommodoreyenser said in Red Sea: Loot Despawning:

@blackbeard-lufy said in Red Sea: Loot Despawning:

@kommodoreyenser Well based on some of the replies here, some do quite care lol. Your frustration over losing my loot = my satisfaction : ). It's not a common tactic, but it's certainly in the toolbelt if need be. I don't chase people for that long trying to get their stuff personally. It is so boring.

Neither do I. I would rather peel off and let someone get cozy at an island then hit them. Makes for a much quicker steal.

If you are satisfied with losing, then more power to ya. Just don’t be in denial of what it actually is. I am fine with the way things are right now with the red. I usually laugh when someone does it. Just like when someone scuttles once they realize someone got the drop on them. Not even bothering to try.

Thing is in this game being a sandbox a person can define their own conditions of "victory" - not everything is tied to accumulating loot. I can lose all the loot I'm carrying but if I accomplish the goal I set for myself in that session then it is a victory. And if sailing into the Red or doing a pre-emptive scuttle gets me back to completing my goals quicker with less interruptions, then it most certainly is not a loss regardless of how much loot is sacrificed (unless of course that is the goal for the session, but that is rarely the case in my situation).

No one is in denial over "losing" other than you that has a narrow definition of it in an open ended game. If I accomplish what I want that session, I've "won" regardless of what any other player thinks - I have no obligation to get into a measuring contest if I do not want to nor do I have to submit to your terms of "victory" or "loss" as what you and I value are not always the same...and mine isn't even the same from session to session.

@dlchief58 said in Red Sea: Loot Despawning:

@kommodoreyenser said in Red Sea: Loot Despawning:

@blackbeard-lufy said in Red Sea: Loot Despawning:

@kommodoreyenser Well based on some of the replies here, some do quite care lol. Your frustration over losing my loot = my satisfaction : ). It's not a common tactic, but it's certainly in the toolbelt if need be. I don't chase people for that long trying to get their stuff personally. It is so boring.

Neither do I. I would rather peel off and let someone get cozy at an island then hit them. Makes for a much quicker steal.

If you are satisfied with losing, then more power to ya. Just don’t be in denial of what it actually is. I am fine with the way things are right now with the red. I usually laugh when someone does it. Just like when someone scuttles once they realize someone got the drop on them. Not even bothering to try.

Thing is in this game being a sandbox a person can define their own conditions of "victory" - not everything is tied to accumulating loot. I can lose all the loot I'm carrying but if I accomplish the goal I set for myself in that session then it is a victory. And if sailing into the Red or doing a pre-emptive scuttle gets me back to completing my goals quicker with less interruptions, then it most certainly is not a loss regardless of how much loot is sacrificed (unless of course that is the goal for the session, but that is rarely the case in my situation).

No one is in denial over "losing" other than you that has a narrow definition of it in an open ended game. If I accomplish what I want that session, I've "won" regardless of what any other player thinks - I have no obligation to get into a measuring contest if I do not want to nor do I have to submit to your terms of "victory" or "loss" as what you and I value are not always the same...and mine isn't even the same from session to session.

Literally the entire concept of adventure is completing voyages or world events to acquire loot which then you turn in for gold/rep.

Loot you worked hard to acquire by whatever means and losing it by whatever means, is most certainly a universal meaning of loss in this game.

The day loot has no more meaning to the majority is the day the economy is truly broken and is probably beyond fixing.

@theswiftness999 said in Red Sea: Loot Despawning:

@blackbeard-lufy said in Red Sea: Loot Despawning:

@manipulatehavoc People salty about red sea runners are probably the same people that spawn camp and dunk on solo sloopers with no loot lol. You get no sympathy from me.

Why would you assume that? I feel like running to the red is toxic behavior, and is something that people SHOULD get upset about. Red sea runners are usually just poor sports. They're the equivalent of the kid that gets mad and takes his ball home. A massive part of this game involves chasing down other ships and sinking them for the loot they have on board. If someone can't handle that concept, maybe this isn't the game for them. The idea of "if I can't have it, nobody can" is a very poor attitude to have. It's simply holding resentment towards, and preventing people from playing the game the way it's meant to be played.

LOL, since when did pirates, buccaneers, marauders or any other scurvy dog care about "sportsmanship"?

People are under no obligation to fight you, much less willingly hand over any loot if they do not want to. As I tell any PvE centric player complaining about being robbed - the treasure is not yours until you turn it in. If you want it, get better at pursuit or stalking and catch them before they head to the Red. People refusing to give you their loot is as valid a way to play as your way and most definitely not "toxic" nor being a "poor sport" (pirates do not care for sportsmanship). Maybe if you can't handle the fact some people may opt to deny you the treasure on board without a battle and you get upset about it shows that perhaps this game is not for you (see what I did there) ...or you are not as good a sailor as you'd like to think.

It's perfectly viable, and anyone that rages about red sea loot dumping is just mad that they couldn't catch you.

Is red seaing poor sportsmanship? Sure. It's this game's version of taking your ball and going home. You're denying your opponent a fair contest.

But is a fair contest something that you are required to give in Adventure? Nope.

Adventure can be unfair. 4v1'ing a solo crew; teaming up with an allied crew against another; betraying an alliance that trusted you; looting/attacking afk ships or fresh spawns; attacking a crew that is pre-occupied with a kraken or other PvE distraction; dumping loot in the red sea - all of it is technically unfair, but all of it is perfectly acceptable in this sandbox.

@manipulatehavoc

Try to win by using one of many tactics, from drive by selling to rowboat plays to simply fighting back, use the tools provided to try and win. Losing isn't always fun, but there is no need to drag down everyone's experience down with you. It is just a game.

Simply put despawning loot in games is bad sportsmanship, therefore should be addressed by Rare. You cannot stop people from being bad sports, but they can make mechanics to help... have the loot be reachable or drift toward a reachable area. Just like scuttling allows you to get out of a spawn camp situation.

@blackbeard-lufy

This is why it is bad sportsmanship.

Realize for a second what you are stating here and that your goal is to create a bad experience for others even though you yourself have zero gain from it. Just so you can gain pleasure out of the knowledge that you caused someone else to feel bad, disappointed, annoyed, etc.

It is just a game.

No need to waste time sailing to the red Sea when you can just dump your loot over the edge but spread it out over the chase making it harder for your pursuers to get both the loot and your ship.

@theswiftness999 there are no rules in a sandbox game, mate. If people want to dump their loot, who cares. Just as valid a tactic as spawn camping, or literally any other annoying thing that some pvp players do.

@cotu42 Yeah, let's knock off this "pOoR sPoRtSmAnShIp" whiny rabble. It's a pirate game. Pirates don't play or fight fair. People only think it's bad sportsmanship because they lost. PvP players are happy ruining other people's sessions because "that's how the game is intended to be played" but as soon as someone does something that they don't like, they whine about it.

Double standards sure are hilarious.

And this is coming from someone who primarily is PvP. I'm sick of people saying that one thing is or isn't okay to do in a sandbox game.

@valor-omega said in Red Sea: Loot Despawning:

@cotu42 Yeah, let's knock off this "pOoR sPoRtSmAnShIp" whiny rabble. It's a pirate game. Pirates don't play or fight fair. People only think it's bad sportsmanship because they lost. PvP players are happy ruining other people's sessions because "that's how the game is intended to be played" but as soon as someone does something that they don't like, they whine about it.

Double standards sure are hilarious.

And this is coming from someone who primarily is PvP. I'm sick of people saying that one thing is or isn't okay to do in a sandbox game.

Pirates don't play or fight fair, yet we are people playing the game and the code of conduct made by Rare has stated that we are to be good sports. Just because you are trying to win in a game does not make you a bad sport even if that means someone else loses. This is something that people do not seem to understand. When two fighters enter a ring or when two teams meet on the football field, the fact that one side tries to win and the other tries to prevent it doesn't make it bad sportsmanship conduct. Deliberately breaking someone's arm even if it results in a disqualification in a fighting match just to ensure the other loses as well and cannot compete any longer is bad sportsmanship. Deliberately destroying the ball in order to ensure the match ends is bad sportsmanship, there is a reason why when the ball goes out of bounds it is returned into the field usually under control of the opponents. People can use the premise of this being a pirate game to support their claims, but don't forget it is a game! It doesn't mean people cannot be bad sports.

The act of red sea despawning loot is bad sportsmanship due to the fact that nothing is gained by those that "win" other than the knowledge that they provided a negative reaction within their opponents. You may elaborate exactly what benefit you gain from red sea dumping the loot over:

• Scuttling, will result in the opponents getting the loot.
• Dumping the loot overboard while sailing away, can be countered by either stopping chase to pick it up, harpooning the loot onboard, dropping a rowboat and having someone pick it up. It provides options to your opponents.
• Drive by selling the loot, the opponents do not get their hands on the loot and lose. The ones fleeing gain the benefit of selling the loot.
• Loading the loot in a row boat and using your ship as a diversion, the opponents do not get their hands on the loot and lose. The ones fleeing gain the benefit of selling the loot.
• Hiding the loot on the island while you run away, the opponents lose track of the treasure or can find it. The ones hiding it can return for it later and still sell it.
• Grabbing the shroudbreaker and going to the shores of gold, the opponents cannot follow and the ones fleeing are able to move out of the shroud to gain distance or have their opponents give up entirely.

All these other options also result in a loss and win condition, yet they keep their ability to make choices and there are mechanics in place to counter act the actions done here or they are rewarded with the treasure based on who wins. None of the above are aspects that I have called bad sportsmanship and just because you lose does not make it bad sportsmanship conduct. If the sole intent of an action is to cause a negative response in your opponent than you are being a bad sport. Whether you PvP purely to make people feel bad or whether you Red Sea dump loot to make people feel bad. If a tactic creates a lose/lose situation each and every time, that is an issue that should be addressed.

Then lets go into the double standard, where is the choice that can be made by the opponents when someone enters the red sea?
If you are being spawn camped you can choose to continue trying to fight and win your ship back or you can scuttle the ship and admit defeat?
If you are being chased you can do an array of actions, from using cannons on land, kegs in the water, boarding, throwing loot overboard, drive by selling, etc.

Unlike the red sea despawning, none of these take away the agency of the opponents with the sole intent to create a negative experience for others. I am not stating that people that PVP cannot be bad sports and while some people might not like PvP or losing, it is a part of the game and usually has benefits of doing it; from securing an area, gaining additional supplies or getting treasure. There are tangible rewards within the game that reward this behavior. Additionally there is always a comeback possible if your ship isn't lost, trust me I am a stubborn solo captain that engages in battles all the time. You can still fight and try to secure a win or you can choose defeat the choice is on the person on the receiving end of the short end of the stick. There is no such choice to be made when someone sails into the red sea or any tangible reward that is associated with the action, as everyone is stating the one chasing is receiving the short end.

I have stated if people want to act in a bad sportsmanship fashion, it is impossible to stop them. However that does not mean that Rare should not create mechanics to minimize the impact it has. They created the scuttle mechanic exactly for that reason, why not have the loot be obtainable after a ship sinks regardless of how it sinks? If there are tactics used for bad sportsmanship conduct, why not have Rare hammer out some ways to minimize its impact on the community and the seas?

I truly hate it, and though it is a tactic, it's bad one, and bad sportsmanship, and will get you nowhere in progress, skill or gold.

@otherfanboy That's barely outsmarting them tbh

@blackbeard-lufy Or you could just disconnect like you didn't even see the gally, let them enjoy themselves and feel good (or is that a crime nowadays? It's all about winning it's never about feeling good) and get to work on time instead of wasting the time of everyone and keep sailing. If you had to go to work then you should by the end of the day have forgotten anyone even got your loot, and maybe they didn't maybe they didn't find your ship remains...

@scoobywrx555 Depends if they're stacked full of loot or having nothing, if they have nothing I'll usually be shooting out to board and ask why they feel the need to run with nothing, and if they have loads of loot, until I've sunk them, because both running and chasing are viable strats, but running into the red sea isn't letting ANYONE win, which honestly I think hurts the runners more than the chasers, who are left with a slight disappointment but mostly a good laugh at that time they chased reapers 5 into the red sea.