Athena Emissary, and PvP, needs a change

  • I understand that they needed to reduce the progression of Athena Emissary from the initial launch, due to people abusing it. However, in its current state, it is not worth the risk.

    My partner and I ran the Athena Emissary flag today, in an attempt to get to level 5. We have tried about 3 times before this, and were targeted by non-reaper ships within the first hour of our voyage.

    Today, we were a little more lucky... we ran 2 full Athena voyages, and by the end of the first we were barely emissary grade II; with one map left to go on the second voyage we were only emissary grade IV and about 1/4 of the way to grade V.

    That was when our luck changed: we saw our first ship of the day. We happened to get spotted by a sloop, and within a few minutes of running, we had 2 separate (non-allied) ships on our tail. Try as we might, there was no way we could fend off two ships, and with zero loot on board we were sunk. The only gain was the flag.

    After we respawned, we were harassed by those two crews for another 3 hours. We tried changing our ship colors. We tried reasoning with them. All they did was camp at the island where they first found us (which wasn't the Athena chest island, just one w/ Skeleton Captains), and prevented us from finishing our voyage, killing us on site. I even offered to give them the Athena chest when we found it, just so I could get credit for finishing the Voyage. But that wasn't the point: they had no interest in the loot. They only had interest in laughing at others' misery. It made me want to quit for good, and left us bitterly disappointed after an otherwise enjoyable day playing. So Rare, if your intention was to create a game which brought out the worst behavior in people, then bravo! You did it!

    I've come to the conclusion that there is NO NEED to ever run the Athena Emissary flag. You become a target for anyone that sees you, and it takes way too long to get to grade V for it to be of any value.

    We've run all three other emissary flags many times, and we've never been targeted like we are for Athena. People who otherwise would have no interest in playing as Reapers will change their whole plan for the night when they see the glowing banner flying over a ship.

    Please, there is so much to love about this game. The graphics are amazing, at times downright breath-taking. The voyages are fun, even if they are a bit of a grind. The Tall Tales are wonderful, and worth repeating. And yet, all this enjoyment can be ruined when you run into a group who's only plan for the night is "sink other ships". And no, the answer is not "get better", because the deck is stacked against you when they have nothing to lose, and all it takes is one slip up for you to lose hours of work. There is nothing fun in that. It's just maddening. So as a PL who truly loves this game, I'm now wrestling with why I should continue to play a game that can leave me furious because of the idiotic behavior of other players?

    Something needs to change.

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  • @thenumerator78 said in Athena Emissary, and PvP, needs a change:

    That was when our luck changed: we saw our first ship of the day. We happened to get spotted by a sloop, and within a few minutes of running, we had 2 separate (non-allied) ships on our tail. Try as we might, there was no way we could fend off two ships, and with zero loot on board we were sunk. The only gain was the flag.

    Any emissary, especially a grade 4 is worth a good chunk of rep for anyone at Reapers hideout, that alone made it worth sinking you

    After we respawned, we were harassed by those two crews for another 3 hours. We tried changing our ship colors. We tried reasoning with them. All they did was camp at the island where they first found us (which wasn't the Athena chest island, just one w/ Skeleton Captains), and prevented us from finishing our voyage, killing us on site. I even offered to give them the Athena chest when we found it, just so I could get credit for finishing the Voyage. But that wasn't the point: they had no interest in the loot. They only had interest in laughing at others' misery. It made me want to quit for good, and left us bitterly disappointed after an otherwise enjoyable day playing. So Rare, if your intention was to create a game which brought out the worst behavior in people, then bravo! You did it!

    My guess is that they wanted the Athena chest, and any Athena loot and didn't trust you, also if you kept going back to the same island, they were probably guessing that its was the island with the Chest of legends. Mind you there are some pirates out there that are not the cleverest or most patient when it comes to Athena steals

    I've come to the conclusion that there is NO NEED to ever run the Athena Emissary flag. You become a target for anyone that sees you, and it takes way too long to get to grade V for it to be of any value.

    Sailing around with a target on your back is literally the point of emissary flags, I do agree on the time investment though. An Athena voyage is long enough, and hardly the most riveting experience. Last I tried and Athena emissary, it took 2 and a bit voyages to get to grade 5.

    We've run all three other emissary flags many times, and we've never been targeted like we are for Athena. People who otherwise would have no interest in playing as Reapers will change their whole plan for the night when they see the glowing banner flying over a ship.

    Athena loot is rare and much sought after, If you announce to anyone in eyesight that you are doing an Athena, they will come and try and take it from you

    Please, there is so much to love about this game. The graphics are amazing, at times downright breath-taking. The voyages are fun, even if they are a bit of a grind. The Tall Tales are wonderful, and worth repeating. And yet, all this enjoyment can be ruined when you run into a group who's only plan for the night is "sink other ships". And no, the answer is not "get better", because the deck is stacked against you when they have nothing to lose, and all it takes is one slip up for you to lose hours of work. There is nothing fun in that. It's just maddening. So as a PL who truly loves this game, I'm now wrestling with why I should continue to play a game that can leave me furious because of the idiotic behavior of other players?

    Something needs to change.

    It might surprise you to know that most pvp is opportunistic in nature, with crews sailing around, doing their own voyages and such, noticing a sail on the horizon and saying "lets go and see what happens".
    Pay attention to you surroundings, learn how to run, how to hide and how to defend yourself and you'll be fine. The fact that you can lose loot it what gives SOT some of its excitement and is not something that is ever going to change.
    Also, word of advice, calling players who got the better of you, and scored a nice emissary flag in the process "idiotic" comes across as salty and childish. Take your losses and learn from them and relax.

  • Wish people would come to fight me when I'm sailing emissary...

  • @thenumerator78
    Sorry but GIT GUD.

  • @thenumerator78

    The deck is not stacked against you, all crews are equal and the advantage is in favor of the one fleeing, not chasing!

    You are a legend are you not? Then simply do something about them, a true legend crafts their own adventure and guides the flow of the seas. Sometimes things do not go to plan as you are not the only one that plants their will upon the waves, adapt, overcome and enjoy the adventure.

    Emissary flags are an opt-in to a more risky adventure, the Athena's are the most juiciest of them all while you flag yourself as a legend for others to challenge. Live up to the title you claim to have!

    Also, you might want to consider the Thieve Haven runs if grade 5 is is your goal, the general Athena voyages are outdated and to RNG... plus take on some emerging threats helps.

  • @thenumerator78 my advice...do a Thieves Haven run and kill every meg and skeleton ship in the way...you should be close to V when finished, just start a new one as you are already at Thieves Haven...and sell the athena gunpowder immediatly or use it as a weapon, but I prefer first...
    And always watch the horizon and the map for reaper...when you see a reaper coming towards you just sell and then go into a fight...try not to care about the flag you might lose, because if you maybe sink them, you gain a lot of emissary rank...

  • @thenumerator78 Hoisting an Athena Emissary flag makes you a prime target. Athena loot is the most prized in the game. As an emissary, you get greater rewards, but with greater risk. That's the way it's supposed to work.

    I'll tell you something. I freely admit my crew and I are not the best at PvP. Sure, we've gotten a lot better in our years of playing Sea of Thieves. We've won our fair share of fights. But we've lost more than our fair share, too. There are always better players. Oh, yes. We've been sunk. A lot.

    Nevertheless, I've made it to PL-20. My crewmates aren't far behind. We've run a lot of Athena voyages. And I'm here to tell you. In three years of sailing the Sea of Thieves, we've never...ever...lost a Chest of Legends.

    "But how, Captain Heather?" I hear you ask. I'll tell you.

    Probably 90% of the Athena voyages we've ever done have been in the Devil's Roar. Why? Several reasons. The obvious one is the Ashen Chest of Legends is worth more (a lot more). So the value of your time is almost doubled. Secondly, you're far less likely to run into random crews on the prowl. Because of the ever-present gloom in the Roar, you're less likely to be spotted by ships that aren't also in the Roar. For whatever reason, many people just don't like going there. I personally don't get it, but that's the way it is. Thirdly, you can actually complete an Athena voyage faster in the Roar. The islands are mostly always the same, and the sailing time between them is far less than going all across the map on regular voyages (as sometimes happens). Plus, since you'll have fewer ship-to-ship encounters...you have more time to focus on the voyage.

    "But Captain Heather, what about the volcanos?"

    Pfft. What about them? With a little experience you'll learn to easily avoid catastrophe. They can slow you down a little but as long as you stay on point and make the most efficient use of your time...any time lost to volcanoes is more than made up for by the other advantages of the Roar.

    "But what happens when a ship finds you anyway?"

    This is always a risk, no matter where you are. It's less of a risk in the Roar, but it's bound to happen eventually. Here are some tips.

    While you're in the Devil's Roar, stop at Morrow's Peak and pick yourself up a handy-dandy Shroudbreaker (by dropping the final Tall Tale, the Shores of Gold). Whatever for, you may ask? If you're pursued by a crew that you know will sink you given half a chance, you can run North into the Devil's Shroud (aka the Red Sea). As long as your pursuers haven't had the forethought to also equip a Shroudbreaker (they almost never do) they won't be able to follow you. You can either wait them out, or try to slip out the West side into the Wilds. You could even try to lure them into the edge of the Shroud and fight them there, giving you a significant advantage.

    Next tip. Don't sweat the small stuff. It's all about the big payoff: the Chest of Legends. Keep your eyes on the prize. If all you have left is the final map of where the Athena chest is buried...don't lead them straight to it. Don't mark it on the map. Don't talk about it in game chat. Treat it as Top Secret information. If you are being pursued by a ship, or if there's a ship in the area acting shady...assume they are waiting for you to dig up that chest and steal it. So what do you do?

    My crew and I have employed a number of end-game strategies for the Chest of Legends. If the pursuing ship is a sloop (we sail a brigantine) then we know we can easily outrun them. In one recent case, we went ahead and dug up the chest and ran to Galleon's Grave, where my crewmates jumped off and sold it. We repeated this for a few other Athena's trinkets. When we'd sold the most valuable of our cargo, then we turned to fight. This surprised the heck out of them, as they weren't expecting us to fight. In this particular instance, we fought them to a draw. We eventually gave each other GGs and parted company amiably. We've won some and we've lost some. But we've never given up a Chest of Legends.

    Another good end-game strategy is the rowboat play. It's really easy. One or two members of the crew sail the ship away, leading the pursuers on a merry goose chase. Another uses the rowboat to reach the final map, digging up the Chest of Legends and rowing it to the nearest outpost. Works like a charm. Of course one must be careful that the other crew doesn't see what's happening, or the game's up. Note that this strategy works well in combination with the Shroudbreaker ploy. You can completely thwart your adversaries.

    By the way, be sure to get in the habit of doing "security sweeps" (as we call them) aboard your ship. This is to make sure you don't have any stowaways hiding on board, waiting to gank you as soon as you dig up the Chest of Legends. Check all the common hiding spots, behind the cannons, against walls, inside stacks of loot, the rear corners, behind the helm, etc. Don't just trust your eyes; use your sword to hack at potential hiding spots. Blunderbombs can work too. Always do this at key points (like before sailing to your final map) or when you've seen other ships behaving suspiciously. This is a very common ploy but easily avoided with a little diligence. If you get in a battle and appear to have won, keep in mind someone might have used that as a ruse to get aboard and tuck on your ship. Routine security checks can save you a lot of heartbreak.

    Along the same lines, be sure that any outpost you sail up to doesn't have any telltale mermaids around. If you see rowboats at an outpost, assume someone's hiding there. Don't stop the ship until you are sure it's safe. Even then, it's not a bad idea to toss a couple blunderbombs into the tavern before taking your prize in there. You don't want to hand-deliver your Chest of Legends to a sneaky scallywag waiting inside.

    As long as you think ahead you shouldn't get into any situation you can't recover from. The ship doesn't matter. The loot doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is the Chest of Legends. I'm not saying to abandon your Athena loot at the first sign of trouble. But keep it all in perspective. An Ashen Chest of Legends is worth more than all the trinkets you'll collect on a typical Athena voyage. If you get sunk and lose it all, don't despair. Just play it smart and get that chest any way you can.

    Go ahead and fly the emissary flag. If you stop to sink some skellie ships, megalodons, etc. then you should make it to Grade IV by the end of your voyage. If you make it that far and still have time, by all means go for Grade V. I suggest staying in the Roar if possible. Either drop another Ashen Athena voyage, or just sail around looking for skellie ships, megalodons, skellie captains, etc. Whatever it takes. If you've seen other ships in the area, are low on time, or just feeling wary for whatever reason, don't hesitate to cash in at Grade IV. That's still a great haul. We've rarely gotten to Grade V because of the time it takes. That said...I remember a night not long ago in which we completed two complete Ashen Athena voyages, and the Grade V bonus voyage. Nights like that make your reputation soar.

    A few other points.

    Unless you're a glutton for punishment, I'd avoid the Athena Run of Thieves Haven. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a fun voyage (I may be alone in that!). But that's the first place hunters look when they see an Athena Emissary on the table. You're almost certain to get jumped at least once while doing that voyage. If you can handle that, then by all means...run the voyage and have fun. But if you're looking to avoid conflict...look elsewhere.

    I get it. Maybe you hate the Roar. Maybe you long for beautiful sunsets, soft white beaches, and palm trees. There's nothing wrong with doing standard Athena voyages if you need a break from the gloom. But remember that you're quite likely to run into other ships, at least one of which is bound to give you trouble. That's life on the Sea of Thieves. You're better off getting to know and love the Roar.

    A word about Gilded Athena voyages. These voyages are the motherload. Always be sure to grab them when they're available, and make sure your crewmates do, too. But everybody knows about them. So you need to be smart. Number one, don't ever do a Gilded Athena the same weekend it drops. Never never never. Everybody will be out looking to gank people doing Gilded Athenas. And gank you they will. Tuck that voyage safely in your voyage inventory. Keep it there and don't slap it down until there's a Gold & Glory weekend. Then your coveted Gilded Athena will be worth double. While it's true there will be hunters about during Gold & Glory, there will also be lots of people minding their own business trying to take full advantage of the extra gold and reputation. Hoist your emissary (if you dare) and go for the gusto. The same rule applies about keeping your eyes on the prize. It's all about that final map. Nobody will know where your final map is (as long as you remember what I said about treating it as Top Secret), so that gives you the advantage. Whatever else happens...you should be able to reach those yummy Chest of Legends and turn them in. Don't be deterred. If it takes having someone sail your ship across the sea to keep scurvy pirates busy while you work the island...do it. Just get it done. Three Chests of Legends at double rep will put a huge dent in your quest towards Champion of Athena's Fortune.

    At the end of the day, please remember that this is the Sea of Thieves. As a Pirate Legend, you are expected to know and accept the risks. It's not meant to be easy. The long slog towards PL-20 is one of the greatest challenges of the game. You will face countless dangers, but none so great as that of other pirates, ruthlessly hunting down their rivals. It's not always about the loot. But their motivation doesn't matter. Your job is to meet the challenge and succeed, no matter what it takes.

    That's the advice of Captain Heather. Take it or leave it, but ignore it at your own peril.

    And remember...sometimes I'm one of the hunters. Arr!

  • @schwammlgott said in Athena Emissary, and PvP, needs a change:

    And always watch the horizon and the map for reaper...when you see a reaper coming towards you just sell and then go into a fight...try not to care about the flag you might lose, because if you maybe sink them, you gain a lot of emissary rank...

    But that's just the point. I very rarely see anyone running a Reaper flag or emissary. And we check the map regularly to see if any pop up. Almost always, it's someone just taking advantage of the moment.

    And to people pointing out that the emissary flags are supposed to be a target, I understand that as well. My point was the risk/reward for Athena just doesn't make it worth it. 10 hours of straight play to get to achieve level V is just too long.

    Also, we too were avoiding the Thieves' Haven run, because it's much worse around there. Even when you aren't running a flag, people tend to attack unprovoked in the Ancient Isles nowadays.

    My main point is this though: if we can enjoy playing a game for hours, and then the events of the last 10 minutes ruins the entire day, then something is wrong. Something is unbalanced. And it doesn't have to do with losing treasure (as a PL, treasure becomes almost meaningless). It has to do with people behaving badly. It causes me to question why I'd put myself in a position to be disrespected like this. And it's becoming more and more common.

  • @genuine-heather said in Athena Emissary, and PvP, needs a change:

    While you're in the Devil's Roar, stop at Morrow's Peak and pick yourself up a handy-dandy Shroudbreaker (by dropping the final Tall Tale, the Shores of Gold). Whatever for, you may ask? If you're pursued by a crew that you know will sink you given half a chance, you can run North into the Devil's Shroud (aka the Red Sea). As long as your pursuers haven't had the forethought to also equip a Shroudbreaker (they almost never do) they won't be able to follow you. You can either wait them out, or try to slip out the West side into the Wilds. You could even try to lure them into the edge of the Shroud and fight them there, giving you a significant advantage.

    That is a brilliant idea!

    I too like the Roar for Legend Voyages, but that's where we've been most targeted. We'll keep an eye out for ships on the horizon, and see them make a bee-line for us anytime we get close to the NW side.

  • If a certain boat keeps "harassing" you then you need to just find a new server.

  • @thenumerator78 said in Athena Emissary, and PvP, needs a change:

    (...) And to people pointing out that the emissary flags are supposed to be a target, I understand that as well. My point was the risk/reward for Athena just doesn't make it worth it. 10 hours of straight play to get to achieve level V is just too long. (...)

    If it takes you 5 hours per Athena voyage, you might want to change how you operate and get it down to 1 - 1.5 or so for a Roar one before you put up an emissary flag while doing them.

  • Be sure to complete your missions...deliver the cargo etc.
    Each completed mission gives you a bit of experience for Athena.

    When you are traveling to Athena missions
    Do the following:
    message in the bottle missions.
    Skeleton captain missions.
    Kill any meg that spawns.
    Kill any Skeleton ships.

    It should help you get your emissary level up.

  • @thenumerator78 10 hours to get to rank V? What the heck are you doing?

  • @thenumerator78 said in Athena Emissary, and PvP, needs a change:

    I've come to the conclusion that there is NO NEED to ever run the Athena Emissary flag. You become a target for anyone that sees you,

    Yeah that's the point of emissaries lol. What, you think they're handing out 2.5 multipliers for free? Why don't they just gift everyone Athena 20 so no one is ever at any risk?

  • @thenumerator78 said in Athena Emissary, and PvP, needs a change:

    I've come to the conclusion that there is NO NEED to ever run the Athena Emissary flag. You become a target for anyone that sees you, and it takes way too long to get to grade V for it to be of any value.

    Agreed. It takes WAY too long to get there just doing Athena voyages, and they nerfed the Thieves' Haven Run too. It shouldn't be so much of a pain to get to level 5, especially since there's very little actual Athena loot at the end of the voyage. I know with other Emissaries you can stalk up a little better at the beginning and fight a skellie galleon/sloop to bump up levels but I can't remember if that happens with Athena. I know the Skellie Ship Event doesn't help with Athena rep so I don't know about random Skellie ships. Captains/Ashen Captains do help though so don't pass them up.

    Yeah when I solo Athena runs I don't run the Emissary Flag because I don't want the attention, but for the most part I do Athena voyages with a crew that can at least outrun others (most of the time) to sell the chest then fight.

    If it wasn't hard, it shouldn't be "Legendary" in its reward. So, if you want the multiplier you have to accept that you are wearing a target. If you want the easier approach then expect more of a grind. Also, talk to your crew about flying the Emissary and watching for others from whom you can thieve Legendary loot. This is the Sea of Thieves after all. And how Legendary is it to be able to turn in someone else's loot? It feels great.

    Have fun out there.

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