Everything about Fire

My views on firefighting in this game is the self-splash method is the best. But I have never put myself in a test scenario to see if the self-splash affects all adjacent squares acting like you are an un-ignited adjacent square.

Can someone clarify this?

@callmebackdraft said in Everything about Fire:

@IDNeon against an experienced crew fire will be of no consequence, they are able to have 1 guy on repairs a second on bailing and fire surpression and still have 2 on cannons constantly.

This response is true about anything.

Why even bother putting holes in their ship or board because "Experienced Crew"

Hence the discussion focuses on how much of the crew you "disable" with other activities

Putting 4 holes in a Galleon changes NOTHING.

It still requires only one repairing and bailing. (I cant count any more the times I was disappointed getting 3 hits across the bow and 2 in the stern only to then board and protect the holes to find a dry hull.)

Putting one firebomb cannon shot on a ship disables at least two crew members.

Test this yourself. Get 18bombs. Fully bomb the captain's quarters and the top deck by the wheel. And the balcony.

Then go fire fight it.

Let me know the result 😏.

Now if you then get a hull shot that's a 3rd disabled.

@callmebackdraft said in Everything about Fire:

@idneon putting fire on a ship disables 1 crew member for 5 seconds tops to put out the fire, no damage done to any part of the ship.

I have played and won 100’s of arena matches where people Thought fire would do something but yeah if you cant put pressure on a crew (making sure water is flowing in) nothing will happen, with 5 cannonballs i will have made 5 medium holes in a ship ensuring 1 person cannot take care of it by himself, the next 5 will put more pressure on him.

Taking out there masts inhibits their movement making it so that they cant shoot nicely (masts fall in front of cannons) or run away as fast or at all

1 cannonball landing on wheel or capstan instantly inhibits their ability to raise anchor or turn as fast

Ok you don't know what you're talking about because you obviously confused a firebomb hand thrown with a firebomb shot by the cannon.

The two are DRAMATICALLY different.

I suggest you get a lot more pvp skill before further discussion.

Also I wouldn't trust the opinion from anyone in Arena.

Come to me when you outrank me as a Reaper in Adventure.

Also taking out a Mast CAN improve their shooting. As their turn radius becomes smaller and you might expose yourself to a lot of stern shots etc.

Everything is situational.

And I highly doubt the Arena provides any real insite into it

That's why I reiterate.

A firebomb cannon shot will disable 2 on a Galleon for far more than 5 seconds.

Also, disabling a mast can be ignored.

A fire cannot be ignored.

So the pressure is different.

Also the helmsman is on fire until put out. So he is dead in 20-30s.

Not to be callous but you literally said it takes 5 seconds to put out a cannon shot fire.

Which is simply not even close to true. Either a gross exaggeration or inexperience. I rarely encounter firebombs in cannons so it's probably the latter by gamer choice.

I may have played this game less.

But I also play it super hard and aggressively and love to reverse engineer everything.

We can literally debate the seconds it takes to put out a cannon shot fire. And I thoroughly want to debate that.

And by the buckets I've provided details.

So assuming it will take ONLY 5 buckets.

1 person on a Galleon has to spend 8seconds at least getting each bucket. That's not an exaggeration.

Then has to spend 4-5 seconds plungering the water barrel for each additional bucket.

Right there the travel times are in the 30+seconds for one to deal with the fire.

Fire spreads to each pre ignition tile about once every 15-20 seconds.

There are 12 initial pre ignition tiles on a Galleon fire in stern.

9 of them are in the middle deck.

Which is another bucket at least and separate from the top decks.

That's a lot of mayhem for one shot.

That is also why I say it will take 2 to suppress.

Now my past idea about a balcony hand thrown fire being a good fire location was less strong an argument and was before I started Look for Crew pvp.

After like 100 hours of constant LFC pvp I have to say THAT idea was mostly trash and hand thrown firebombs in general are a waste of time.

At most it's useful against a sloop and even then not so much.

The best hand thrown shots seems to be masts but only because it demands a response but still.isnt urgent.

@CallMeBackdrafT also you're right I shouldn't be a b*** about our debate.

I just got a little....heated 😏

I dont think fire will sink anything.

Let's clarify that.

What I do think is it is an overlooked strongest meta opening.

For reasons mentioned above it disables a lot more crew members than you've admitted to.

If it's on stern I'd say it would take the helmsman off the wheel to get a bucket. And it will take at least one other to manage the rest.

But I'd think one other wont handle it by themselves.

If you do combine that with either a good chain shot or put holes at water line....then I think youve done the most damage you can do with an opening salvo.

I think it should always be a part of an opening hit because of that. Yet I almost never see it at all.

Also a helmsman off the helm is a goal of an attack. He's the strongest position to deal with boarders.

While one other can and should prevent boarding. If all others are busy the helmsman is the best.

So by forcing him to bucket water you've removed a set of eyes from the ladder for sure.

We can exchange anecdotes but they still have to match real game mechanic requirements.

I think you're underestimating how much work it is to deal with the fire cannon shot to the stern.

Now a sloop suffers just as badl, initially, but are hardly worth considering due to ease of management.

It takes a board to sink a duo sloop. Even a 1 manned sloop probably.

The brigantine is the most fire resistant.

Almost nothing vital in any single position on the ship.

While Galleon has numerous vulnerabilities in each mast position of the ship.

@callmebackdraft said in Everything about Fire:

@idneon
but by all means, keep using fire there are quite a few crews (mine included) that dont give a damn about it and will take care of whats important first and thats killing boarders, fixing holes and using the water thats in our hull to extinguish fires.

Also I have specifically not put holes below the water line to deprive the other crew this exact water source until the fire was more ripe.

It does work.

Again, you feel you're wasting your time but our discussion is for OTHERS to read and decide.

Not to convince each other.

I've had too many positive results from well placed fires.

@idneon most helmsman ive played with myself included carry a bucket of water exactly for this reason plus some good food and usualy an overheal
also why is it taking u 4 to 5 secs per bucket to plunger into the barrel? thats like 10 secs wasted dude
u can release the plunger just before halfway and it still sucks in the same amount letting u do all 3 cranks in roughly as many seconds thats what i normaly do

@callmebackdraft said in Everything about Fire:

@idneon
just to name a few, the helmsman, again especially on a galleon can be squeezed into a corner pretty easily and the point when a boarder is dangerous is as soon as he is able to/allowed to get on deck.

the reason why fallen masts should never be ignored is the same fact why a dropped anchor should never be ignored, decreased/disabled mobility is a death sentence.

There's a bunch of reasons you're wrong about this but one of them is the first thing I do in a fight is get the mains raised.

Too much mobility.

I'd much rather sink a full compliment of tier 3 holes in your waterline than to put a few holes and spend 45 seconds turning.

The lowest priority on my list is probably the main mast.

This is unrelated to anchoring which completely immobilizes you and you cant even turn.

As for helmsman on boarders.

It definitely should be his job and only anyone else's if you got players to spare.

Blunderbombs plus eyes on ladders = great counter.

There's not a lot else the helmsman can do effectively but also man a cannon or adjust sails which in combat doesnt seem to matter much anyway because the wind will change sides in about 30 seconds anyway.

@purr2344 said in Everything about Fire:

@idneon most helmsman ive played with myself included carry a bucket of water exactly for this reason plus some good food and usualy an overheal
also why is it taking u 4 to 5 secs per bucket to plunger into the barrel? thats like 10 secs wasted dude
u can release the plunger just before halfway and it still sucks in the same amount letting u do all 3 cranks in roughly as many seconds thats what i normaly do

Yeah so do I. I will tell you right now most don't. We are the exception. You're going to deny yourself a great shot because you think it wont work on you?

Not to mention 2 or 3 firebomb hits across each mast?

Also you need to really count the seconds on how long it takes to plunger. It takes as long as I said..same with the travel times.

@idneon ive never found firebombs that helpful imo just like i find them a waste of time ive done an entire ashen athena with my boat on fire just cuz it amused me to see if i could and i realized that fire's main goal is the chaos and disorganization it causes but more and more crews are realizing its only effective if us the players let it be of course fire has differing effects according to the crew ur facing and how they feel about it personaly id rather u shoot fire at me so my boat can look like a demon ship with the cosmetic i usualy run vs extra holes :D but thats just me we all play differently after all

@purr2344 said in Everything about Fire:

@idneon ive never found firebombs that helpful imo just like i find them a waste of time ive done an entire ashen athena with my boat on fire just cuz it amused me to see if i could and i realized that fire's main goal is the chaos and disorganization it causes but more and more crews are realizing its only effective if us the players let it be of course fire has differing effects according to the crew ur facing and how they feel about it personaly id rather u shoot fire at me so my boat can look like a demon ship with the cosmetic i usualy run vs extra holes :D but thats just me we all play differently after all

No no. We think about the same.

I sailed my Galleon solo on fire for the trolls.

I couldnt keep the main up, because you die by the time you raise it so it just pops again while on the ferry.

But that was actually an advantage because I could ride the collapsed main mast fire free until I needed to fix and turn the wheel or such.

@CallMeBackdrafT

Which brings me to the point. This isnt the "kill shot" I was claiming about some stupid balcony shot before.

The idea of this thread is that fire is an amazing underutilized pressure tool.

After all the sailing is addressed the most benefit you get from it is burning through their food stores.

Literally.

But also if you let a fire burn then you're going to to keep popping holes into the middle deck of a Galleon.

As helm I always jump off wheel a moment to patch those holes.

I see them as the kill spot.

@Purr2344 @CallMeBackdrafT

We can go in circles on just how much damage a fire does.

Which anecdotes just arent very profitable.

So let's see if we can find common deck to stand on.

Do we agree with the numbers first.

My experience says:

Stern shot on Galleon engulfs about 25 grid squares of fire.

That requires an estimate of about 5 buckets of water.

I've had my crew preload buckets before so we can assume we have enough buckets meaning all 5 can be given in about 10s.

But let's assume no water buckets.

I say the water barrel takes about 4 to 5 seconds to plunger and bucket.

I say it takes about what was it...8 seconds to get down to water barrel and back to stern.

If we can agree there then that's why I say it disables about 2 crew for those lengths of time.

Otherwise you're letting the fire burn and I say that has the added benefit of burning through food stores and overheals.

While I think letting fire burn will break wheel relatively quickly.

I assume the fire will be suppressed and nothing will truly break.

I think the main benefits are manpower distraction and food/heal loss.

I think this is a very strong opening.

Stronger than holes below waterline or some chainshots.

I think the best chainshot is anchor then wheel.

But adding that with fire is best overall.

If you can board that overpowers most everything else.

That is the limitations of this thread.

@dyfrin said in Everything about Fire:

One thing about fire, the bucket doesn't have to travel to the top to get rid of the water coming in, so having a fire on 2nd deck is actually better to get rid of water on the first floor.

I stand by my statement that I've held off putting waterline holes for the reason of letting the fire do more work.

It is probably best to do fire and chain shots for maximum top deck damage than it is to open with holes.

Getting a person aboard to drop anchor and eat their food and empty their water barrel and keep them dead is probably far more crucial early on.

Once the fire is insane putting a hole or two on board and keeping boarders close and in cannon range makes a lot of sense.