Why is there still no option for 3rd person view?

@uberkull
I LIKE THIS IDEA!

Especially since the game is very centered around cosmetics and looking cool. I'm not sure if it's a technical reason or if they just don't want to do.it, but I'd like a 3rd person view when I'm just sailing or walking about.

With so many cosmetic options, we can’t see anything but gloves and forearm tattoos...really?

Personally I like the 1st person as it is.
Immersive... I'm the Pirate... rather than I'm playing a Pirate.
However... I have always wanted a "Full Length Mirror" at the General Clothing Shop.
Angle a set of mirrors I'll be able to see me back too.
That way I can see for myself .... I'm looking epic.

@schwammlgott said in Why is there still no option for 3rd person view?:

Also this would break balance if you'll make it optional...

Balance? This game is far from a competitive, esport fps. Let’s be real.

Arena can stay 1st person, Adventure hardly has any pvp anyways, so it can easily add 3rd person.

As much as I applaud Rare for all that they do with game design, leaving out 3rd person in a glorified Barbie dressup game is mind boggling.

@uberkull bobthis isn't an sport but to say that adventure has little PvP just means you use that mode in a way that limits your PvP. I personally go after every boat I see and get plenty of PvP in adventure. 3rd person views will ruin any sort of balance rare is creating.

I wouldnt like to try third person being inside the bottom of the ship. Camera view would be quite frustrating given the cramped conditions down there.

I dont like the idea of third person for stealth.
Being able to see pirates climbing your ladders from the wheel. It would make stealth totally obsolete.

Now i know its not a stealth game, but to destroy a part of the gameplay for a new camera angle, i wouldnt like that very much.

I think it would be bad for balance.

A only possible solution i could figure would be to make seperate servers. Third person camera servers and first person camera servers.
However that would present its own set or problems too.

@uberkull
I'm not sure how it would even be possible to effectively use a gun in 3rd person mode.

@uberkull said in Why is there still no option for 3rd person view?:

Balance? This game is far from a competitive, esport fps. Let’s be real.

Arena can stay 1st person, Adventure hardly has any pvp anyways, so it can easily add 3rd person.

Just because its not an Esports game doesnt mean we can make it unfair and broken for some players. They attempt to make the game as fair as possible as they should. Also, most PvP happens in adventure mode, at least the most interesting PvP does! Plus they would have to implement an entirely new camera type, as youd have to be able to maneuver the camera, along with where your player is looking and moving so it wouldnt block objects in front of you, This would also make weapons very hard to use, making them implement a more complex crosshair system that would most likely be exploited by players too. Overall, this would make more difficulties, bugs, and game breaking exploits than it is worth. I think its cool to only be able to see your pirate when doing an emote, because after a battle you can sit, relax, and look at your character.

@uberkull It was less about PvP, and more about the connection to the experience and perspective. They want to do what they can to make you the pirate... and you lose that with a third person perspective - you are no longer in the experience, you are watching the experience from the outside.

Normally I would agree with OP since I primarily play games like DayZ in third person. But Rares 1st person-centric design has grown on me.

It would create an imbalance because it increases situational awareness against pirates playing in first person.
OP likely knows this.

As already mentioned, it is a PITA indoors or below decks in combat.

It may even devalue emotes to a certain degree.

@little-squash said in Why is there still no option for 3rd person view?:

@uberkull
I'm not sure how it would even be possible to effectively use a gun in 3rd person mode.

Is this the only shooting game you ever played? LoL. Simply ridiculous.

SoT is one of the simplest ‘shooter’ games anywhere. There are more complex mobile games.

Examples of 3rd person and shooting
Fortnite (Cosmetics and gun skins in full 3rd person)
Player Unknown Battlegrounds
Gears of War
The Division
H1Z1
No Mans Sky
Dayz
About a dozen more in the Unreal engine alone.

Just makes zero sense to have a fully cosmetic reward system game in first person. I can guarantee Rare would get double the players if the game had the option for third person.

I would love 3rd person!

@uberkull I full heartedly disagree, game play is more important than any cosmetics prowess. The view point changes the scale of the world, the way combat is and how the game feels. I am happy they made a single choice and stuck with it.

@uberkull said in Why is there still no option for 3rd person view?:

@little-squash said in Why is there still no option for 3rd person view?:

@uberkull
I'm not sure how it would even be possible to effectively use a gun in 3rd person mode.

Is this the only shooting game you ever played? LoL. Simply ridiculous.

SoT is one of the simplest ‘shooter’ games anywhere. There are more complex mobile games.

Examples of 3rd person and shooting
Fortnite (Cosmetics and gun skins in full 3rd person)
Player Unknown Battlegrounds
Gears of War
The Division
H1Z1
No Mans Sky
Dayz
About a dozen more in the Unreal engine alone.

Just makes zero sense to have a fully cosmetic reward system game in first person. I can guarantee Rare would get double the players if the game had the option for third person.

Sure... But those games all have aiming reticles. Rare purposely designed Sea of Thieves without one.

@little-squash said in Why is there still no option for 3rd person view?:

@uberkull said in Why is there still no option for 3rd person view?:

@little-squash said in Why is there still no option for 3rd person view?:

@uberkull
I'm not sure how it would even be possible to effectively use a gun in 3rd person mode.

Is this the only shooting game you ever played? LoL. Simply ridiculous.

SoT is one of the simplest ‘shooter’ games anywhere. There are more complex mobile games.

Examples of 3rd person and shooting
Fortnite (Cosmetics and gun skins in full 3rd person)
Player Unknown Battlegrounds
Gears of War
The Division
H1Z1
No Mans Sky
Dayz
About a dozen more in the Unreal engine alone.

Just makes zero sense to have a fully cosmetic reward system game in first person. I can guarantee Rare would get double the players if the game had the option for third person.

Sure... But those games all have aiming reticles. Rare purposely designed Sea of Thieves without one.

Um...a aiming reticle is always at the center of your screen, TV or monitor. It never moves. This is why, you really don’t need one if you understand fps aiming. Ever see pros put sticky dots on their monitors? Yea...

So reticles have nothing to do with anything when it comes to 3rd person vs 1st person.

And yes, more people would play this game if it had a 3rd person OPTION. Fortnite would never be as successful as it is if players who spend their Vbucks on cosmetics couldn’t see them at all times.

I just don’t get why people here want to dismiss having additional options for other players in the game. I never asked for 3rd person only, I said optional.
What do you care how I prefer to see my game? And please...pvp is casual in this game, your once an hour pvp encounter in Adventure mode won’t be altered by some player in 3rd person.

@cotu42 said in Why is there still no option for 3rd person view?:

@uberkull I full heartedly disagree, game play is more important than any cosmetics prowess. The view point changes the scale of the world, the way combat is and how the game feels. I am happy they made a single choice and stuck with it.

Optional...not just for you.

POV, You are the pirate. Not a ghost watching and controlling one.

@uberkull said in Why is there still no option for 3rd person view?:

@cotu42 said in Why is there still no option for 3rd person view?:

@uberkull I full heartedly disagree, game play is more important than any cosmetics prowess. The view point changes the scale of the world, the way combat is and how the game feels. I am happy they made a single choice and stuck with it.

Optional...not just for you.

Perspective is a very important aspect of the game design, the game experience and gameplay. It is not something that you just add, as it literally affects every single aspect of the game. The way someone views the world! It affects scale perception of the world, the way we connect with our avatar and how we move, fight and play. No I do not think adding an option would be good for the game experience and gameplay at all, which is far more important than your cosmetics.

I stick with my answer that I am happy they made a single choice and stuck with just one perspective to design around.

@cotu42 said in Why is there still no option for 3rd person view?:

@uberkull said in Why is there still no option for 3rd person view?:

@cotu42 said in Why is there still no option for 3rd person view?:

@uberkull I full heartedly disagree, game play is more important than any cosmetics prowess. The view point changes the scale of the world, the way combat is and how the game feels. I am happy they made a single choice and stuck with it.

Optional...not just for you.

Perspective is a very important aspect of the game design, the game experience and gameplay. It is not something that you just add, as it literally affects every single aspect of the game. The way someone views the world! It affects scale perception of the world, the way we connect with our avatar and how we move, fight and play. No I do not think adding an option would be good for the game experience and gameplay at all, which is far more important than your cosmetics.

I stick with my answer that I am happy they made a single choice and stuck with just one perspective to design around.

My cosmetics? LoL.

The whole game design CENTERS around cosmetics. Its the core game loop. Sail water for hours, get treasure, return treasure, get gold, buy cosmetics. Rinse and repeat.

And it’s not hard to add 3rd person. No Mans Sky did exactly this and actually never told anyone they were adding it. The game started 1st person only and added 3rd person.

And NMS is exponentially more complex with camera management than SOT. In NMS you have multi- level bases where you have to manage view, you have underground tunneling that your player creates and view has to be managed in 1st and 3rd, and you have underwater, you have space and spaceship navigation. All these areas also have to support gunplay, player guns and spaceship guns.

So, don’t tell me it’s hard.

@uberkull no the game centers around good gameplay. Cosmetics are not the primary driving force of any game.

It isn't hard to add, it is hard to balance, design and work around 2 different perspectives for game play, game world scale perception, immersion and that stuff. Most of the time 3rd person just becomes default because it gives you a bigger view angle...

I studied game design you are not to convince me! I had smarter people than myself explain why it is so important. Disagree with me all you want, but I am going to place more value in my professor's words of the university than your words. Here a reference article explaining the difference between game experience a bit without going to deep in the theory behind it, gamasutra article

As experienced game designers, Rare knows giving players more options does not guarantee a better game.
Early on they locked down a first person perspective. For everybody.

Thier rules.
Deal with it, pirates.

@cotu42 said in Why is there still no option for 3rd person view?:

@uberkull no the game centers around good gameplay. Cosmetics are not the primary driving force of any game.

It isn't hard to add, it is hard to balance, design and work around 2 different perspectives for game play, game world scale perception, immersion and that stuff. Most of the time 3rd person just becomes default because it gives you a bigger view angle...

I studied game design you are not to convince me! I had smarter people than myself explain why it is so important. Disagree with me all you want, but I am going to place more value in my professor's words of the university than your words. Here a reference article explaining the difference between game experience a bit without going to deep in the theory behind it, gamasutra article

Excuse me, you assume I don’t know game design? The core game loop I mentioned is correct. All games revolve around some reward system to keep people playing, else the game has no point, no purpose that keeps people coming back.

Very few players would play this game for a extended period if there wasn’t a purpose for obtaining gold. If chests had no value, why get them? If skeleton islands rewarded treasures that had no purpose, why do them? If players carried around chests that held no value, why attack them?

Yet, you miss the entire point of my post. There are dozens of other games that use the Unreal engine that provide both 3rd person and 1st person views, and you are saying their game designers don’t know what they are doing? You act like Sea of Thieves is the most popular game on the planet. It’s not even close.

If you take Fortnite, as much as I hate to say it, it can be said it’s the most popular game ever made based on players played and profits. It thrives on 3rd person combat, building bases(pvp and pve mode), and ...wait for it...COSMETICS.

Fortnite is free, yet made 1.8 billion dollars in 2019. It’s design decision to be 3rd person(in a world of Call of Duty style 1st person shooters) was choosen because they knew they had to have players seeing their cash cow appeal ....COSMETICS.

They knew that they could not maintain a playerbase on Battle Royale game loop alone, else they would have just went with 1st person and called it good. No, Epic games knew their ‘game hook’ would have to attract all types of players, competitive and casual. So, make it 3rd person, saturate the game with COSMETICS that the player can grind for in seasons, or buy in the cash shop, or earn in game. And all of them can see what their $$ paid for because the correct design decision of 3rd person was made.

So next time you wanna talk game design, make sure you bring up good examples of successful games as solid argument. SoT is a good game, but I can assure you Microsoft and Rare would love to see 1.8 billion dollar profit numbers for one year. Never going to happen when your core cosmetics reward system is only viewable via a emote....

@uberkull

Just because something works for a game does not mean it is great in all games or adds to the actual gameplay of each game. Options are not always a good addition and does not always suit the game.

Cosmetics, gold, treasure collection, immersion/roleplay, lore, commendations and progression are all aspects of games and people have a variety of reasons they play them and yet all players care about the gameplay above all. If a game does not offer the best gameplay it can it will not be as good, less people will play regardless of how pretty it might be. People have been playing games for ages without the rewards, if you play chess you get no cosmetics and it is still being played... game balance, variety and skill is what pulls people back to games, cosmetics is not the main driving force to keep people playing and a health playerbase.

You have addressed literally none of the aspects I talk about or address any of the game design principles. If you are familiar with game design you would understand that the view point of a player is a big deal in regards to how the game experience works and the impact it has on the game as a whole.

1. Game balance

• The speed at which the game plays is partially due to out view point.
• The amount of information that the screen provides is based on our view point.
• The combat experience and movement are totally different based on view point.
• The way we avoid, interact and move around in the world and impacts actual design and interactions.

For instance did you know the traps in the caves in the Tales, Smugglers Bay, actually do not have to be completely cleared to be safe, as it feels like you past it even though the trap pretty much cuts off your behind and they made it so that you are therefore considered safe. This would be weird if you saw it from a third person view point as it would look like you got hit, but didn't... while it feels natural and logical in first person.

2. Immersion and bonding

• The perception of the world is based on your view point, by going into third person the rest of the world shrinks in comparison. The larger the view angle the smaller the rest seems.
• The manner in which we perceive the avatar we play, being a third person view means that we see them as seperate entities that er bond with while first person places us in their shoes.

What type of bond do the developers want us to have with the world and our pirates is a big determination to what choice they made I am sure.

This is just the basics and there is way more psychological backgrounds and theory that go into this subject, but I have no motivation to bring up more. Now most games that offer both struggle with finding a proper balance to have them work together.

Most games end up doing one of the following:

1. Split up the game based on view point, this is common in most competitive play.
2. Have huge worlds and have one of the two as a novelty usually first person view as third person view provides more info and there is usually better for results.
3. Use a combination where generally people are in third person unless doing specific tasks like mounting a gun platform or operating a vehicle.

Never did I start that third person would not have been a viable option, but I do believe that to offer a good coherent experience for all it is important for developers to pick the perspective that suits the game best. Pick a view point and stick with it is usually the best game design practice. Even fortnite uses one view point, 3rd person. It makes the majority of the games better when they do it and Rare has already let us know that both third and first person view were considered. They have tested and based on their results have stated that the best view for their vision was the first person view experience.

If you know your game design, then bring on your arguments what third person view would offer to enhance the game experience. How it would be balanced and fair between both the views and why this is needed from a game play perspective?

Just because you want to see your bling is not good enough in my opinion to make such an impactful game play balance options.

You state you know game design, but you bring up cosmetics as the driving force to play. You do know there are a pretty decent chunk of people that own what they want, they are max level and literally play the game because they still enjoy the gameplay. I am one of these players and I am not even one that sits on millions of gold... cosmetics is a small portion of the game and by all means not the most important one. Player interaction, be it friendly or combat, with your own or other crews and the manner in which we experience the world, the game mechanics and those aspects are far more important than the bling we gather and collect. There are also players that just are out maxing out the numbers, because that is what they enjoy. There are a lot of reasons to play games. I don't care about the monetization process to make them rich, but the game experience that they offer.

Want to talk game design stop talking about other games unless to illustrate your point and talk about the one you want to implement it in and how the theory works and what it adds to this game. Game design principles are based on science: psychology and physics mainly and the creativity of the people making it.

@cotu42 Quit googling and copy/pasting bs. I clearly illustrated my point of how 3rd person works flawlessly in a cosmetic based game. You just fail at reading and need to Google game design to try and counter my logic.

My ask was clear, but clearly this community of self proclaimed ‘pirates’ cares more about thinking they’re a actual pirate, so 3rd person breaks their immersion. Please...gimme a break.

Newsflash...you aren’t Jack Sparrow. Sorry....

@uberkull said in Why is there still no option for 3rd person view?:

@cotu42 Quite googling and copy/pasting bs. I clearly illustrated my point of how 3rd person works flawlessly in a cosmetic based game. You just fail at reading and need to Google game design to try and counter my logic.

I reference articles that know what they are talking about, actual illustrations and sources to cover the bases that I cover in my text and verify the aspects in my text to build a valid argument based on you know a more scientific approach. Yet where is your proof that Sea of Thieves would be a better game by changing its view point? Fortnite a game that is indeed successful and also has one set perspective? No man's land that has a totally different world scale?

If you believe the articles I referred to as material to illustrate my point is bull where are your counter arguments to everything I stated including the proof that the concepts I talk about are fiction? Oh... wait snap they are actual design principles and the things those people and I talk about actually have to do with game design and is not all anecdotal evidence based on a totally different game.

I even stated that I believe the game could have worked fine with 3rd person view, yet the developers tested both and decided for first person mainly based on the criteria I mentioned before and their vision and goal for the type of game they want to deliver.

My view and statements have stated that I think having a set perspective within the game improves the game. It is a basic design principle and guideline, research and try out multiple view points... make a single choice and stick with it. It makes games better when designers and developers do this.

Your point this is a cosmetic game, while it does way more than that. Yes in regards to viewing our outfits a 3rd person view would be better, my point is but does it make the overall experience better? How about bonding with your character, how about world perception in regards to exploration also a key motivator in games and how would it affect and balance combat another key element on why people play? How would you ensure that both first and third person are equals and not one gets overshadowed and unused. How much more difficult will it be to design things like tall tale traps?

The game has cosmetics, but also has combat, exploration, collection and the desired player experience based on Rare's vision to consider. It isn't all about what your avatar wears. Fortnite has more to it that makes it successful, building, shooting, weird guns, vehicles and all that. For that game in many situations the 3rd person is more suited and in others it would have benefitted more from first person, yet they stick to 3rd person view to create a more coherent experience and focus. Pick a view point and stick with it, design 101.

My ask was clear, but clearly this community of self proclaimed ‘pirates’ cares more about thinking they’re a actual pirate, so 3rd person breaks their immersion. Please...gimme a break.

Newsflash...you aren’t Jack Sparrow. Sorry....

Lol.. immersion breaking. I never stated immersion breaking, I talked about the different aspects of bonding with the world, the fact that being the pirate or watching your pirate gives you a different type of experience. The scale of the world and how it is perceived by players.

You think I googled all my game design principles and ideas, but you just showed that you have no experience with it. You being the pirate comes from being in first person view, that is what most likely was one of the deciding factors for Rare.

Third person can be immersive, but you will not be the pirate you will see it as a seperate entity that you control and decide how they live. Which by all means can be a very immersive experience and yet is not the same.

What is the goal, what type of experience did Rare want to give us? Rare is very aware of the fact that going first person view hurts their own monetization of the game and yet they still came to the conclusion that first person was better. You seriously think that Rare made that choice without the consideration of the fact we aren't able to view the avatar at all times?

Get off your high horse. My knowledge is not based on Google, but I did use it to illustrate and provide sources for what I was saying. You just went other games do it and are doing just fine or even great so add it yet have not addressed a single aspect of I mentioned regarding game balance or world/avatar perception.

Games should have one choice made regarding to how we view the world, because it literally is a major aspect in every aspect of the game experience.

You have no clue what it would do to the game, but by all go read up use Google for all I care to provide arguments to build a case why this is needed.

@ultmateragnarok said in Why is there still no option for 3rd person view?:

@uberkull

Don't pass off others' arguments against yours as just them taking random things off of the internet. It portrays you as a sore loser and a liar, and less people will take your suggestions seriously.
As for the post itself, well, Rare made a decision and built a game around it. Restructuring their entire game for one minor feature that goes against what they wanted is most likely a bit far out in terms of likelihood.

Call it like I see it. This is a Feedback and Suggestions forum right? Why did I have to defend a suggestion?

@cotu42 I literally don’t care to read your wall of text. You can’t come up with your own thoughts so you reference others.

Feedback and Suggestion forum. [mod edit]

@uberkull

Lol.. I provided sources to illustrate my points. You know a bit more scientific and provide people with information to judge my points based on its validity not just my word.

You have no idea how design works in games. Your biggest argument is Fortnite and that game has a fixed perspective which I state is the most important aspect to the choice.

Pick a single view be it first, third or top down and stick with it. Game design 101.