Ranking and Evolution?

  • CaioSardella11
    Rogue

    Hi guys,
    I know how a bunch of you feel about leveling up in this game and RPG stuff.

    At least 2 or 3 guys that I talked about this are against the idea, but now, in the game, we already have some advantages between players.

    Once we start playing the game and we don't have knowledge about it in a world that the other player have knowledge about it, we have a factor that mess up the balance.

    We don't need experience bars to bring experience to the game because is obvious that people that play for a long time will just blow up new players.

    I just figured out that we really could have a experience system and upgrade our characters IF we had servers that could split people looking to their ranks.

    I realized how this is important because I saw a streamer just blowing a new player up and making fun of it.

    There is no problem in blowing people up, the problem is being blowed by such a good player that you not even had the chance to respond to the atack.

    We really could have new abilities, skills and possibilities, if we were facing people that have the same value of experiece that we have. I really belive that ranking players before setting your server would ensure a better gameplay for everyone, with or without leveling up.

  • Login To Reply
    18
    Posts
    7.5k
    Views
  • UltmateRagnarok
    Master

    @caiosardella11
    I'd like to see this if upgrading the character wasn't a part of it. Some experience level in the background which allows the matchmaking to separate players by skill. Then again, the point of the game is not knowing who you encounter. I just wish those streamers would follow the examples set by the other streamers and leave newer players alone. It's not like it gives them any gratification or anything anyways.

  • CaioSardella11
    Rogue

    @UltmateRagnarok

    It's not just about streamers. I'm talking about all the comunity that blows up a ship of someone that's new in the game and don't even have the oportunity to learn more.

    Would be great at least servers that splip players by level or rankings....

  • UltmateRagnarok
    Master

    @caiosardella11

    The streamers thing on my post wasn't the whole topic, that sentence was just another thought. I don't know if separating servers by skill would go against the 'shared world' aspect of the game, though.

  • Captain Coel
    Commander
    Insider

    @caiosardella11 nah. leave the servers as they are. you would be basically splitting players on time played not actual skill.

  • CaioSardella11
    Rogue

    @captain-coel

    Nahh, experience don't come only with time.
    Ranking people isn't just about their time played. The game can rank people based on their K/D/A in PVP. This show exacly how do you deal with the PVP part of the game and what people you should play with.

    With this, you can chose people to the server based in their potential to kill/be killed by other players.

    I saw sometime ago, people talking about how the game could record a bunch of stats that we don't have today and how this could be useful.

    It's really easy to split people, just think about the game and comunity, not just about you and them, you could figure out a bunch of interesting stuff besides just reprove other people ideas without thinking about it.

  • D4m0R3d
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @caiosardella11 so you admit good players already have an advantage and you are suggesting that we further increase that advantage to make them even better against noobs? yea nahhh im not sure thats a good idea.

    your post makes no sence. i think your thought process is, if we give xp and levels, noobs could chose some sort of skill to help them, but news flash, the experienced players who have been playing forever would have way more abilities and stuff, so you would just be further increasing the gap. and at that point you are erasing a skill gap and you creating a different type of gap. really just not a good idea. also why would a pirate game have abilities, what kind of abilities would they have? not that it matters because either way it would just be bad for the game

  • D4m0R3d
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @ultmateragnarok you know how you get good at the game.

    from fighting. if people were to see new players and always be like oh hes new dont touch him. first of all that player wont be fully experiencing the game, but furthermore that player will have been playing the game for lets say 50 hours and they are terrible at the game, now they get in a fight and get absolutly destroyed, and are not used to this feeling and so now we have a bunch of possible adverse effects where they are losing interest in the game cause its not what they it used to be, they arent used to it, and are bad and cant keep up. blah blah blah

    my point is there is nothing wrong with absolutely slaughtering noobs

  • D4m0R3d
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @caiosardella11 you know how you learn how to stop people from kegging your ship. you learn from experience. thats how i learnt, and you know what, my ship never gets kegged anymore.

    also having an MMR system in a non-compettetive game would just kinda suck, especially when the game is all about social interactions. imagine those top tier players, now all they get matched with are sweats and they have no option other than to play with these sweats, they no longer get to have fun interactions with interesting people, only sweaty pirates who want nothing but the same thing. i think the game would get pretty boring pretty quick

  • CaioSardella11
    Rogue

    @d4m0r3d

    You really just didn't read the post or just ignored half of the text, about this I can't do anything.

    But let's try again:

    Now the noobs can't play aganist expert players without being blowed up.

    IF WE RANK PLAYERS BY THEIR SKILL, WE CAN CHOSE BETTER THE PLAYERS TO MAKE A SERVER AND THEM, IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THE CHARACTER OR SHIP HAVE SKILLS OR NOT.

    The point about skills that we could have by leveling up the character was how this could affect the gameplay of PVP.

    Spliting players by level would put players with THE SAME AMOUNT of skills in the same server.

    Leveling up or ranking up, makes you rise in to servers with people that have as much gameplay mechanics as you. This way, you never stop learning about the game because you are always playing with people that really challenges you.

    If you think that's no problem to blow up noobs is just because you don't care about learning and be challenged, you just wanna keep being a coward, killing people again and again, making their experience worse, that are trying to learn new things.

    I just didn't figure out a way to be more specific than this.

  • UltmateRagnarok
    Master

    @caiosardella11

    Thing about that as well, is how do you determine the skill of a player? Someone who plays only PvE likely couldn't hold their own in a fight, maybe not even in a chase, but if they rank up enough off of PvE they might be pushed upwards anyways. Look at many pirate legend crews you see with the legendary liveries on their ships, they're often horrible at PvP because they ground up PvE instead.
    The real main question is, how will the game know that? It's very difficult to judge who sank a ship, or why someone killed someone else, or if there was even a fight involved. Some people might've allied and agreed to kill some of each crew for pink Flame of Fate commendations, or be dueling to test weapon mechanics. Alternatively, someone could be ranked up for being charged repeatedly by a crew and forced to defend themselves each time. As for ships, due to how they sink, it's often difficult to tell who or what killed them. Say a ship is being attacked by a player ship and a skeleton ship, and they run aground. What gets credit for killing them? If the player ship put only one cannonball into them, but the skeleton ship put, say, 30 and a few cursed ones, and the collision put 4, would the player still get the credit? What if they'd repaired everything else, but the final hit from the player ship finished them off? Or they couldn't bail because of the skeleton ship's cursed cannonballs, allowing the player's shot to sink them?
    The amount of variables in situations doesn't allow for the game to always understand what's going on. The same reason applies to why you don't get credit for sinking ships in Arena, and why bounties would be so hard to implement.

  • D4m0R3d
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @caiosardella11
    "IF WE RANK PLAYERS BY THEIR SKILL, WE CAN CHOSE BETTER THE PLAYERS TO MAKE A SERVER AND THEM, IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THE CHARACTER OR SHIP HAVE SKILLS OR NOT."

    huh?

    "Spliting players by level would put players with THE SAME AMOUNT of skills in the same server."

    you didnt read what i said. about how this is bad. SOT is all about interactions, splitting them up by MMR would be terrible. if SOT was a compettitive pvp fps sure, then MMR would be cool, but no SOT is an adventure game that is literally all about your interactions with other players. making MMR matchmaking would mess with these player interactions, turn everyone to pvp, and would deminish player interactions. no longer will the skilled players find the poor solo sloop who just started the game to help them out, no longer will i find people who just started the game to talk to them about how they like it and stuff like that. no skill based matchmaking would be terrible for this kind of game, like i said high skill players vs high skilled players = pointless pvp = game being boring = players quiting.

    "Leveling up or ranking up, makes you rise in to servers with people that have as much gameplay mechanics as you. This way, you never stop learning about the game because you are always playing with people that really challenges you."

    if this is true then their is literally no point in abilities anyways, all they would be is a pointless mechanic that doesnt make sence for the game.

    "If you think that's no problem to blow up noobs is just because you don't care about learning and be challenged, you just wanna keep being a coward, killing people again and again, making their experience worse, that are trying to learn new things."

    i imagine you get blown up all the time and are the 1% that hasnt learned how to prevent that from happening. watch the water, if you are following them in a straight line, they are probs gonna keg you, watch for kegs in the tower, watch ladders, shoot their legs, right click on barrel to defuse it.

    and like i said. you learn from experience. you know i too was a noob, and i now am not, i learned how to fight mechanics in the game by actually fighting them, how am i supposed to learn how to stop someone from kegging my ship if im just playing against a bunch of noobs that also have no clue what they are doing, how is anyone supposed to learn. if they do learn it would be a very very slow process. the fastest way to learn and adapt is to face them head on, like i said, i learned quickly how to stop keggers by actually facing them, getting kegged 10 times a day gets you thinking, hmmm what should i do next time to make sure this doesnt happen.

    also some players like a challenge, if the game was super duper easy peasy, im sure alot of players would get bored.

    just think of the really good players as high lvl AI

    you didnt need to be more specific, i understood and i understand now. it doesnt matter though the idea is still not a good one.

  • D4m0R3d
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @ultmateragnarok i dont think ranking would be that hard, but its a terrible idea. but anyways if its about skill pve doesnt matter, that wouldnt play into account at all. they would just have to track, how many cannon hits you it, how many gun shots you hit, how many kills you get. for each of these you get reqarded a point and would subtract a point for deaths, and then say someone averages 100 points, they get placed in low tier rank, then someone averages 500, they get mid tier rank, then someone averages 1k and they get put high teir rank. problem with this is, to be high tier rank you probs dont do much pve, so matching all these players up together, means that they will only have meaningless pvp. and like i said this ends up = players quitting.

  • UltmateRagnarok
    Master

    @d4m0r3d

    Yes, currently there's a balance where PvE treasure ships provide what PvP ships fight over. Ranking would likely remove that altogether. Arena actually did a good job of incentivising PvP players to get their own treasure if no one else has any, since they can't win on fighting alone unless someone else has chests. As for the system you made, it seems like firing guns or cannons at nothing, or around an enemy purposefully would quickly mess up that system. Players fire cannons and guns at random objects already for target practice, so it would definitely end up being broken by that.

  • D4m0R3d
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @ultmateragnarok ? why would you get points for shooting nothing. lol no it would work like how arena works, you hit a ship and get 25 points, or you kill a player and get 100 points. like i also said if you die you lose points, so that would probs be 100 points aswell if killing someone is 100 points. idk what you mean about how players randomly firing at things would mess this up. like you dont get rewarded for anything other than pvp, so in order to get points they have to do these things. like in arena if you shoot a cannon ball in the direction of a player, you get no points, it has to actually hit their ship, otherwise you dont get any points

  • UltmateRagnarok
    Master

    @d4m0r3d

    The way you said it made it seem to me like accuracy was part of the equation. I was likely misinterpreting it. In terms of a K/D ration based system, it could still be messed up, but not as badly. I wonder how crews would work with that, though. If a crew of four people who are all good at PvP play, and one of them agrees to let himself be repeatedly killed by another crew, would he be able to start the ship at his level that the game interprets, and have the other crew members join into that level of play?

  • CaioSardella11
    Rogue

    @d4m0r3d

    First of all: Skill have 2 way of reading, the skill of a player that know what to do in the game and the skill like the ability of the character or ship.

    Second: People already don't think about new players, they just wanna blow the ships up, players are already quiting the game just because it sucks to try to finish the same long mission 4 times while you need to deal with high skilled players that make fun of killing people that are just learning

    Third: There isn't a way to say that's good to have high skilled players in the same server them the noobs. With somekind of matchmaking you just gonna face people that know as much as you about the game.

    Fourth: I just read in 3 days a bunch of posts about people that really wanted to learn about the game but never get the opportunity because they always have someone that knows a lot about the game chasing them or messing up their experience. I got no problems about being blown up. I play with 3 friends and I have fun with them when we play by chasing our tresures and defending ourselfs from atacks.

    Fifth: Good for you if you needed to being kegged 10 times to start learning how to counter it. If you were playing with people of your level, you would keep learning about the game but much more fun.

    Sixth: If high level players really liked challenge, they wouldn't be hunting noobs down just to try to have some fun.

    Seventh: If players aren't bored yet, why Sea, that is a 2 years old game just isn't one of the most played games? Why does Rare need to keep trying to bring new content trying to save the comunity?

  • NWO Azcrack
    Master

    @caiosardella11
    This should never happen. You can never put a number on skill. I know plenty of pirate legends that cant pvp at all. So now they gonna be on pve servers?

    What about me and my captain? I know i have way more kills cause i shoot the cannon. And can hit you in your eyepatch anytime i want. Yes my captain is good at pvp. But since i have way more kills we would he matched differently.

    Btw this breaks the entire point of the game. Crews are made up of players with various skill. Each person has their own strengths and weaknesses that add to the dynamic of the crew. Pulling off an epic victory or defeat is what bonds crews.

    Sure i would love to always be in a sweaty pvp lobby. But thats not what Sea of Thieves is about.

    I wanna add you are forgetting of the other side of the coin. Alot of us old timers dont always sink new guys. We gift them loot or play tricks on them. Or even have them hop on my boat why i show them around. Depends on the mood really. Alot of good times u will be destroying with matchmaking.

Login To Reply
18
Posts
7.5k
Views
17 out of 18