@manbun-magic Rare is going to deny deny deny. If they aren't giving special treatment to streamers, why are streamers reporting people in private discords in the firstplace?
Streamers Are Abusing Their Power
i fear that i hate Streams that are made to glorify a person...i watch Streams in search for people who explain the game they are playing ...i watch and follow an Australian who shows and explains all kinds of Strategy Games for PC . He plays solo against the AI and slowly and clearly explains the game to his viewers , which have never raised higher than ten at the same time...
So i don't hate Streams nor Streamers , but then you have Streamers who " perform" before their audience . Maybe deep inside they don't want to spawncamp , talk thrash , sneak and bomb people unaware but hey , if someone's watching the urge to "perform" is high... i know this, it is not a crime .Put any person a camera in the face and only a very few stay theirselves...That is still not a crime...
The crime is that some start to feel better than others and if they get shot shout for fire and murder...Their ego is damaged infront of their fans or followers . The Equator that , they think ,runs through their behind isn't bringing Joy but feels like a knife of Humiliation to them...And they report ,even if the " enemy" won fair and square ...
i was born in the seventies ...i was free ...Today i can be filmed by everybody , from people of my age , older ,younger from Grandpa's and Ma's to toddlers , eevrybody had a camera in the hand , on the corner of the street ,in the shop to see if you or me are not a thief.
Satelites from countries , not even my own, can see if a lice has dropped on my head...i don't have a phone ,maybe the only dinosaur who doesn't , i don't go to brothels , don't sing forbidden songs from the forties in dark shady cellars...i don't bash anybody on the street but i do dread the fact that a phone follows me to every street where i go, that every camera , handheld or on a post follows me ,for whatever rreason...Today , i get filmed while playing Multiplayer games , not be me by others , my words are recorded , my actions weighed and judged by people i don't even know they excists...
i don't feel free in the world...
And now...i don't feel free in a Game, which was once ,my only escape in a world that keeps an eye on you and me , for no reason , just in case...
i know i will be called Dinosaur ( * ...don't forget Moron...moron) , stupido, paranoid , or person that has something to hide...Did i forgot old fashioned ? Whatever...Big Brother rules our lives , since many generations, that's how politics and beholding that power works , but i find it very sad for selfexpressment that Streaming needs to be following your and my games....
Not to mention the Ego and abuse and missjudgement this all leads to...How many videos are there from fights that immediatly condems someone who took the right in his or her own hands ? But how many of these videos show how the situation evolved that this person became angry or hostile?
With nowadays techniques you can condemn a fully innocent person who defends him/herself and paint this person so that everybody thinks he or she is a criminal and get's pitted upon...
Once ...we were Free ...Today , we don't dare to cross a white line in fear of a fine....Our Freedom has gone....also in games...
Sad World.
The Code of Conduct has several points about “being respectful”, “being courteous”, and “keeping [your language] appropriate.
I think this should apply to streamers - and their crews - too, if such disrespect and language is directed at another crew, regardless of whether the other crew can hear the streamer.
I don’t suggest streamers should not be allowed to swear but if, on stream, they say something like “let’s mess up these intercoursing female pudenda” (or words to that effect), they should be [edit] disciplined.
@surveyorpete it also says, and most alarmingly in terms of certain aspects of this fiasco:
"All disputes shall be settled on the seas."
Interesting...
I disagree in terms of banning them, or even removing them as partners. I'm a firm believer in people being able to turn over a new leaf and getting second chances. We can all make mistakes and step over the line. It's important to acknowledge your fault and make a genuine effort to mend your ways though. I would like the community to be represented by people who will help continuing to build the reputation of this game, that's incompatible with raging, abuse and poor sportsmanship. Like, play how you want if you're not putting yourself on a pedestal, but if you want to stand up and say you're a Sea of Thieves partner, I expect better than some of the things I saw when trying to find out what this fuss was all about. It's about attitude more than behaviour.
Actually, its the Pirate Code that says: "Disputes Are Settled upon the Waves"
I was quoting from the Community Code of Conduct.
When I say "banned", I guess I do mean "hit with disciplinary action" which could involve warnings or suspensions, before a total ban. However, if a streamer has clearly been playing the game a long time, and does so as a way of making a living, they should make it their business to know the rules, and they can reasonably be held to a higher standard.
blinks You guys understand Rare does this. The Submission form for Cheaters literally encourages you to post undeniable evidence that the opposing team is Stream Sniping. Streamers can moan and whine all they want. But Rare dismisses any and all claims of Sniping if their is NO EVIDENCE to back it.
So for folks scared of "witch hunts" need only worry if they are cheating. Their status with Rare means diddly-squat if there is no evidence to back their claim that you cheated. You literally need a recording of the accused to admit to sniping and state an example of said breach in ToS.
So I implore you. Go out and smite Streamers. But think of if this way. When you fight a Streamer and WIN, that streamer will seek out a rematch for the sake of content. So please Mighty Warriors of Sea of Thieves deal your bashings with good taste. Because if you do Breach ToS with toxicity and vulgar language while smiting the streamers you claim are hot garbage. Streamers can report that.
(sorry for rambling)
I can't stand streamers.
...and I stream almost daily. I hope to ever be big enough of a streamer that I have people stream sniping me.
99.999% of streamers are the same. They all:
- Laugh excessively at stuff that isn't funny
- Yell "stream sniping" every time they die
- Say "garbage"
- Say "trash"
- Say "boys"
- Say "let's go"
- Say "yeet"
- Say "kid"
- etc, etc, etc...
Although I am sure Rare and/or Microsoft look into the claims, I am sure these dirty streamer's reports are looked at the same as any other reports.
Now, if we can just get Rare to stop kissing streamer's butts, or at the very least, show love to other streams that don't trash talk the game and trash talk the other players.
I almost want to post the clip of P*ce22 playing with Rare, drawing male genitalia on the map table and then Rare having a laugh about it...
EDIT: https://youtu.be/sPGkqPOm530 -I suppose if this is that funny to Rare and is okay to have a laugh at while playing live, it's okay to post here, right? /s
@drkrazy said in Streamers Are Abusing Their Power:
So for folks scared of "witch hunts" need only worry if they are cheating. Their status with Rare means diddly-squat if there is no evidence to back their claim that you cheated. You literally need a recording of the accused to admit to sniping and state an example of said breach in ToS.
So stream sniping is 'cheating', is it? Hmm...perhaps you could sell me on that argument if we were playing CS:GO. But to a pirate, being a 'cheat' is something to add to the CV.
I respect RARE's right to make up any rules about the game that they want. If they say stream sniping is taboo, then of course we should all comply with that directive, or go find another game to play.
But I also stand by my earlier post - if you are foolish enough to broadcast your whereabouts, in my mind you are fair game.
Be thankful RARE values your streaming hide enough to give you some protection, because otherwise...@dislex-fx said in Streamers Are Abusing Their Power:
EDIT: https://youtu.be/sPGkqPOm530 -I suppose if this is that funny to Rare and is okay to have a laugh at while playing live, it's okay to post here, right? /s
Pace plays a villain in game, but he's a good sportsman and has a good attitude. I've never once seen him rage or call "stream-snipe" when things don't go his way.
Drawing rude things on a map isn't the same as calling someone a cheat and telling them that your buddies at Rare are going to insert a ban into a biological oriface that was designed primarily as an exit.
One is a little immature but mildly amusing and likely to add some confusion/enjoyment to the person who discovers it on their map, the other is mean spirited, malicious and intended to cause upset/offense.
I'm speaking purely of the obvious intent behind both sets of actions here.
@dislex-fx no, I don't find the genitalia thing funny personally. I certainly don't think that's how the game should be marketed or the direction it should take.
Playing pranks on people in SoT is good natured fun though. Drawing genitalia on things falls firmly within the childish prank category for me. I used to find that sort of thing hillarious between the ages of 9 - 16, my tastes have become more refined since, but I still remember where I've come from.
I really think its the intent that matters. Were they intending to cause upset, offense or harm? If so, that's not what I want to see from a partner. If it's only that their sense of humour isn't to my tastes then I'll just watch someone else. You get me?
@boxcar-squidy
But still, if you're not allowed to say words about certain things, why should you be allowed to draw those things?@blazedrake100 It is definitely a double standard, isn't it? I can't say a generic term for male genitalia, but it's okay for me to draw it.
Watching that clip, it did kinda remind me of the bad ole days of gaming, you know, a bunch of guys sitting around making puerile jokes about their endowments, not a woman in sight. Sigh. I wonder if those boys got a wrap on the knuckles from the higher-ups?
Also, I wonder what the reaction might have been if Pace22 had drawn a picture of the female genitalia on the map instead? Oh, such a can of worms! I might have to go fishing...
The game definitely has an indentity problem.
On the one hand the game is intended to be played by a multitude of people and be all-inclusive, and Rare try to foster a good natured community spirit.
On the other hand, they deliberately design the game to create the sorts of interactions that frustrate, divide us and pit us against one another.
They want it to be a game for casual laidback players and hardcore skill streamers. Sadly, it can't be both. One side is going to feel hard done by, regardless.
I watch streamers of the game but the ones I tend to gravitate towards are the ones who are good sports and will often use their time to teach other players the game.
As a side story...
I was watching a particular streamer last night who was recognised in-game by a player and obviously targeted. Now, the other player and his crew is known as being pretty good at PvP, so the streamer knew he was in for a fight. And he was outnumbered 3 v 2, Brig v Sloop anyway (his own crewmate on this occasion isn't the best at PvP). Still, the two of them managed to escape a spawn camp, sink the Brigantine, and kill all the other players. Unfortunately, SoT being SoT, the Brig got an extremely kind respawn and was back at them within a couple of mins. The streamer and his friend lost the second fight and sank, losing 3 or so fort's worth of loot.
Even though the streamer did recognise the other player, it was clear he was targeted because of who he was, he never once intimated that he was being stream sniped. Instead, he complimented him before the fight began (and only expressed some disappointment that the other player was using a blunderbuss).
This all said, less than 10 mins after they'd sunk, the other player appeared in the stream chat to "humble brag" about sinking the streamer and getting all his loot - claiming it "broke" his machine having all that loot on board.
Again, the streamer didn't accuse the player of stream sniping or any such shenanigans, instead just saying GG and good luck with the time it was going to take to sell all that loot.
Not all streamers are the same. Just like not all players are the same. Some are extremely entertaining to watch, and level-headed. Unfortunately, like anything in life, bad apples can ruin the bunch.
@ntraills said in Streamers Are Abusing Their Power:
@drkrazy said in Streamers Are Abusing Their Power:
So for folks scared of "witch hunts" need only worry if they are cheating. Their status with Rare means diddly-squat if there is no evidence to back their claim that you cheated. You literally need a recording of the accused to admit to sniping and state an example of said breach in ToS.
So stream sniping is 'cheating', is it? Hmm...perhaps you could sell me on that argument if we were playing CS:GO. But to a pirate, being a 'cheat' is something to add to the CV.
Hoo boy... You were one of those kids in the Perfect Dark days huh. Stream Sniping is the same as looking on Someone elses screen. Unless you thought that was a legitimate strategy in Halo, Goldeneye, Perfect Dark etc... The rest of your post inclined that if Streamers Broadcast their where abouts we should be "free game". If streamers are Egging chat on for a fight, so be it. But a lot of broadcasters aren't Streaming because they want a target on their back. Some do it because they want to entertain the world, not be burned by the Galleon of Warmongers.
Again it depends on the Broadcasters intentions. If they have a Reaper Flag up by all means go reap and destroy them. But if they are showing a New Pirate the ropes and just trying to play the game, don't be THAT GUY.
But to the point... Let's consult webster... My favorite explanation of the word "Cheat" is the Verb: "to position oneself defensively near a particular area in anticipation of a play in that area." If that isn't looking on a Screen to position oneself then I don't know what is.
@jimzir said in Streamers Are Abusing Their Power:
Streamers can put delays on their stream, it's what every big pvp streamer does so people can't streamsnipe them. Yes they will know your average location and if you're discussing tactics they can hear them after the delay but that's just the choice you make by streaming your gameplay.
Interactive streamers don't want to have to put a delay on their stream because they want to be able to talk to their viewers and have two-way conversations. There are very, very few streamers in the SoT streaming community who do are skill-only with no chat interaction.
Streamers need to get over themselves.
There are almost No "interesting player interactions" that Rare keep banging on about at every conference they attend.
It's the same for almost every player on this game, it all ends up as betrayal or being attacked or getting in there first and attacking.
Wether your a streamer or not..
No need to report a player for just being attacked in a PVPVE game. It is what it is..
Sure, if there is bad language etc, then feel free to report.. but for being attacked??@needsmokes said in Streamers Are Abusing Their Power:
Streamers need to get over themselves.
There are almost No "interesting player interactions" that Rare keep banging on about at every conference they attend.
It's the same for almost every player on this game, it all ends up as betrayal or being attacked or getting in there first and attacking.
Wether your a streamer or not..Nope. I was friendly today - I offered up over 500 cannonballs, 30 CCBs, 300 planks, 400 fruit, 4 storage crates, 3 treasure chests, and 1 rowboat to another ship as I was leaving the server. They didn't take it, but that doesn't change the fact that I was in a friendly and giving mood. So no - not everyone is like that.
@needsmokes said in Streamers Are Abusing Their Power:
You left a game and that was interesting?
Fun days on the sea!I was in for at least 3 hours prior to leaving. Don't try and take things out of context - I got a lot done.
@realstyli said in Streamers Are Abusing Their Power:
Interactive streamers don't want to have to put a delay on their stream because they want to be able to talk to their viewers and have two-way conversations. There are very, very few streamers in the SoT streaming community who do are skill-only with no chat interaction.
Yes well, they have to choose, you either have direct communication with your audience at the risk of everyone seeing what your doing and what your tactics are aka being vulnerable to streamsniping OR put in a delay, make streamsniping harder but have a less direct communication with your audience. That's just the hard truth for competitive PVP games.
Blaming players for seeing your footage and possibly acting upon it is just stupid. It's like going into a war, using enormous speakers to communicate back to HQ and expecting the enemy not to listen to what you and HQ are talking about.
@jimzir it's a game though, not a war.
Back in the days of split screen gaming looking at your opponents screen was considered a scummy move. If you persisted in doing it, people would refuse to play with you because of your bad sportsmanship.
It's a game, it's supposed to be played for fun and in a spirit of fair competiton. Fairness and sportsmanship means showing some restraint - not abusing people, not trolling people too hard, not raging at them when you're irritated and not using an unfair advantage against them just because you can.
People defending stream sniping are no better than Odd Job using screen peekers for those of us who remember Golden Eye
@boxcar-squidy I know it's a game, and I will treat it as such. Problem is the streamers who abuse their power to get people banned seem to be treating it as a "war" and not a game. There is a difference between PVP and competitive PVP. And some of the streamers (have only read about one so far) seem to treat it as competitive PVP and therefor should use a delay if the streamer wants to eliminate the risk of streamsnipers.
Banning real streamsnipers is fine BUT it's very hard to proof people are actually streamsniping you. The chance to get in an arena match with a streamer is very high given the limited amount of servers. So the chance of you being in a streamers chatroom (or you previous having been there) is real. Calling people out for being or having been in your chatroom and therefore streamsniping is ridiculous.
I don't approve of streamsniping but it's just a risk you take when streaming. The many benefits of streaming come with some risks. Those risks should stay with the streamer and not become a risk of the viewers to get banned because you accidentally killed a streamer you watched in the past.
@jimzir Yeah, we're in agreement on that.
Good sportsmanship goes both ways.
Issuing a credible and unjustified threat against a person who is one of Rare's paying customers and then acting on it is not on. It indicates that the person issuing that threat wanted to and did take action against a fellow player outside of the game. It says something about their character and about how far they are willing to go when they lash out in anger.
That's one incident with one streamer though. It is not the norm, not by a long way, and after the fuss it has caused I imagine steps have been taken to ensure it doesn't happen again. Rare are a professional company though, you can't expect them to reprimand their partners in public, that's not how these things work in the real world.
@Boxcar-Squidy and @DrKrazy You guys both make good points that I hadn't considered. Pirate Squidy makes them without the added bonus of making assumptions about me, but it would be very passive-aggressive of me to point that out, so I shan't.
Regardless, Pirate DrKrazy is right - why, only a month ago I was deputized to watch my 12 year old nephew and his friends play Halo split-screen. My job? To ensure no-one screen cheated.
But...
For me, it still comes down to this is a game about - yes, you guessed it - pirates! And it feels extremely un-piratey of me to not take advantage of every single possible weakness. I again state that I have not nor will I ever stream-snipe. It is against the Rules, to which...even though they are more like guidelines...I will strictly adhere.Perhaps it is a flaw in my character. It's like I'm playing poker with someone who is distracted looking at themselves in the mirror and doesn't realise I can see their cards in that same mirror. Are you seriously saying that as a pirate, I shouldn't use that knowledge? Huh! If I was that honourable, I would have joined the Royal Navy.
I wonder should the same rules apply to streamers? Should a streamer getting help from people watching be banned? As an example, let's say a hypothetical streamer and crew are so busy 'creating content' that they miss the approaching Galleon sneaking around behind. What if someone watching the stream helps the streamer - warns them of the impending attack and gives the streamer and crew time to ready themselves for battle. Is that cheating? The crew on the hypothetical Gally might think so, if they knew.
@ntraills Again I think it's about intent.
Did you go on their stream afterwards to say good fight, or during the fight because you recognised them and thought "why not?" That's ok in the first instance or bad form in the second but both are hard to police if the streamer themselves hasn't taken any measures to prevent it.
Are you deliberately targetting a streamer, sniping them, following them from server to server and deliberately trying to ruin the experience for them and their viewers? That's not on and it's a little more than trolling, you're messing with a person's income.
It's nice to see that someone has finally addressed "the elephant in the room" situation, i couldn't agree more. Seems to be alot of favour toward streamers and as I've said before, they may bring slight exposure to the game but they aren't the sole playerbase but it feels they are treated with high immunity and special privileges alot of the time. They are allowed to contact members of the team personally, and of course are immediately favoured. This is resulting in players being banned for simply being better at the game than them. I'm not disputing the times it does happen, as unfortunately it does, but there are the occasions that they just got bested.
@RealStyli Hah!
@boxcar-squidy said in Streamers Are Abusing Their Power:
@ntraills Again I think it's about intent...you're messing with a person's income.
Again, interesting point! Just how much resentment do I harbor because someone gets paid to play games all day, and I have to work a 9-to-5?
Yes, if that is what motivates players' actions, or if they are trolls, they should be banned. We have a concord.
63 out of 80
