Mermaids do not allow stealth.

  • Alfrythebestboy
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    When you want to use a Stealth approach (to attack enemy ships etc), you can't do it secretly for 2 simple reasons.

    1. The mermaidsspawn automatically from the water
    2. The player name is "too" visible.

    This does not favor those who love the stealth approach. It would be great to fix this.
    The mermaids should spawn only at our request, perhaps with the input of a some command, while the names should be visible only if we are very "very" close (face to face).
    Let me know what you think.

    Update the idea based on your suggestions!

    • No change to the visibility of the name on the players' heads
    • The sirens spawn should only occur when the player is in the water, or near an outpost. If the player gets on an enemy ship, or island, the siren must go away.
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  • princes lettuce
    Master
    Insider

    Hmm.. I agree but also disagree. I feel like 'calling' the mermaid taxi would indeed be nicer than it just appearing all the time, even when you don't need it. It ruins stealthily boarding another ship.

    But I don't think Rare should allow stealth too much around outposts. If gamertags and mermaids are gone, it's way too easy to camp.

  • Alfrythebestboy
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    @princes-lettuce It could be solved this way.
    When you are near an outpost area, the mermaids spawn will be automatic.

    I love the stealth,
    Just today, because of the siren and the too visible name, I was discovered.
    I believe that in a game like Sea Of Thieves, having this "freedom, is fundamental.

  • Leviatan2833
    Seafarer

    I think this suggestion is not very good. Mermaids is the only thing that gives you chance to find morons that are camping on islands (not just outposts). If you want to jump off your ship to get to ship of your pursuers to harass them, you can do it stealthy even now. If you want to do anything else without your ship in your proximity (like being moron camping on island), not having something that would warn your enemies to be more careful would be just too big advantage for you. This is my opinion.

  • sten whik
    Commander
    Insider
    Founder

    As someone who uses the stealth approach a lot to an extreme degree (don't think I won't swim across the map to get on your ship!) I think name visibility is just about right. Did you know it's a lot harder to see an enemy's name now than when the game first launched? Even so back then I succeeded at many ambushes and acts of unseen thievery. My first Athena's chest was from my crew ambushing some Legends on a ladder.

    Mermaids do pose a bit of a problem these days as they respawn a lot faster giving my victims a lot more chances to hear the spawn sound, I use a rowboat when I think a crew isn't on alert as the rowing sound is a lot quieter than mermaid wailing. Since mermaids aren't intangible I also find myself booping into them a lot on my long swims.

  • Alfrythebestboy
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    @sten-whik Yes, I knew it.
    The problem of mermaids is that when we shoot ourselves far away on the enemy ship, the mermaids risks making it clear that there is someone on the ship. It happened to me several times.

  • Alfrythebestboy
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    @leviatan2833 This is why I wrote that the mermaids should automatically spawn in the outposts. But when we are in the middle of the sea, no, to encourage a stealth approach it should be called manually.

  • BlazeDrake100
    Marauder

    @alfrythebestboy
    The mermaids aren't your taxis. You're lucky they save you at all.

  • sten whik
    Commander
    Insider
    Founder

    @alfrythebestboy said in Mermaids and the player name do not allow stealth.:

    The problem of mermaids is that when we shoot ourselves far away on the enemy ship, the mermaids risks making it clear that there is someone on the ship. It happened to me several times.

    You don't think the loud bang from a cannon and the sound of a pirate whistling through the air is a bigger giveaway in that instance? :P

  • Chronodusk
    Commander
    Insider

    @alfrythebestboy

    Perhaps mermaids should only spawn if you're in the water?

    For instance, if I have fired myself over to a skull fort and I'm hiding in a tower, my ability to play stealth would be 100% dependent upon my ability to stay hidden and quiet, rather than just hoping the opposing players don't discover my mermaid.

    Maybe the trade off is that mermaids still appear regardless if you're in the water or not only if you're at an outpost, but anywhere else they only spawn when the player is in the water.

    That seems like a fair balance.

  • Glannigan
    Sailor

    Leave the mermaids alone. They are fine just the way they are.

    This isn’t splinter cell

  • PithyRumble
    Sailor
    Insider

    Go back to when names were invisible underwater. Up to a certain distance and line of sight.

    Mermaids should not be summoned.

  • DISLEX fx
    Captain
    Insider

    Usernames and mermaids are just fine.

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    @pithyrumble said in Mermaids and the player name do not allow stealth.:

    Go back to when names were invisible underwater.

    Names ARE invisible under water.

  • Goedecke Michel
    Marauder

    @alfrythebestboy You're saying it needs a fix. From this I conclude that you think that camouflage approaches and ambushes are part of the game idea and design. But that's not the case. You can use some game mechanics to make yourself a little invisible, like lying down to sleep. But in the end that's using an existing game mechanic for unintended purposes.

  • UltmateRagnarok
    Master

    Keep in mind that the merfolk have no way of communicating with the pirates of the Sea of Thieves (other than a couple artefacts which are far to rare for all to have), as they cannot understand nor speak any surface language, or speak at all for that matter. They help sailors who have fallen from their ships return to help stop more from being consumed by the curse of the drowned, which they are in the process of succumbing to. To get their attention all you have to do is let them notice you, they do not spawn if you do not touch the water no matter how far away your ship is, but even if they could understand you they wouldn't leave lest the curse affects you too.

  • CallMeBackdrafT
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    @goedecke-michel sorry but you are wrong about stealth not being part of the intended game mechanics, quote from the code of conduct:

    Be a good sport. Sea of Thieves is a pirate game, and stealth, stealing and battles are all part of the fun. All pirates on the seas accept that, but be a good sportsman in both victory and loss.

  • Goedecke Michel
    Marauder

    @callmebackdraft No, I am not. Stealth mechanics are not part of the game, have never been.

  • CallMeBackdrafT
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    @goedecke-michel

    Swimming under water hides name tags, this was specificly added for stealth mechanics.

    Hiding properly hides name tag, also added specificly for stealth mechanics.

    The code of conduct (made by rare) says Stealth is part of the game.

    They are looking into a crouching mechanic that also hides name tags...

    So if you like it or not stuff was added specificly for the reason of stealth mechanics and thus part of the intended game mechanics

  • PithyRumble
    Sailor
    Insider

    When did they add it back? I remember much weeping and gnashing of teeth about it. (Underwater mode)

  • Schwammlgott
    Champion

    @galactic-geek sagte in Mermaids and the player name do not allow stealth.:

    @pithyrumble said in Mermaids and the player name do not allow stealth.:

    Go back to when names were invisible underwater.

    Names ARE invisible under water.

    I guess she meant, they aren't visible under water when you are not in the water...because they are not visible then, but they were in the old days...you could see a pirate diving from a mile away

    @PithyRumble

  • PithyRumble
    Sailor
    Insider

    @schwammlgott

    I misread some patch notes then.
    Will have to pay attention next time someone gets close....

    In a month or two lol🤷🏽‍♀️

  • Stundorn
    Castaway
    Insider
    Founder

    @alfrythebestboy

    1. Not a pure stealth game.
    2. Lore/ Canon
    3. Rowboat
    4. Sleep
  • Goedecke Michel
    Marauder

    @Alfrythebestboy @callmebackdraft
    Stealth games are characterized by the fact that the opponents are not confronted in open combat. Instead, the player has to sneak past them unnoticed and kill or stun them silently from ambush. The player usually has different ways to camouflage, disguise or hide. Often the visibility and the generated noise level of the player can be controlled in the status display. Stealth games require a thorough exploration of the environment and a cautious approach and are usually accompanied by an exciting atmosphere and background story. The topics are manifold. There are games like Thief, where you act as a master thief in a fictitious medieval world, espionage thrillers like Metal Gear Solid, or games like No One Lives Forever, which are kept in the style of a comedy.

    You won't want to claim that Sea Of Thieves falls into this category, will you? Even if the game has few functions that can be used to sneak unrecognized, this is neither a major technique, nore a main idea of the game. And that's the way I think it should stay.

  • ViperishEmu2992
    Marauder

    Letting players summon their mermaid on command has been suggested quite a bit.

    I'm not sure totally sure if hiding the gamertag is such a great idea because of the need to report cheaters and trolls to Rare.

    Personally I have no problem with your suggestion of only showing it when close. But I can understand why some players wouldn't like these changes, with some good reasons.

    But, you'd get my vote. Being a sneaky player myself.

  • CallMeBackdrafT
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    @goedecke-michel i am not saying that its a Stealth game...

    You are saying:

    From this I conclude that you think that camouflage approaches and ambushes are part of the game idea and design. But that's not the case. You can use some game mechanics to make yourself a little invisible, like lying down to sleep. But in the end that's using an existing game mechanic for unintended purposes.

    And that is what i am refuting with proof, camouflage and ambushes are part of the game idea and design.

    The devs themself stated as much on multiple occasions:

    • watch out for a single reapers mark because it could be an alliance laying an ambush

    • you can hide from view by properly hiding and changing your clothes to match ship colours

    • you can hide your name by swimming underwater.

    Does this mean its a full on stealth game like splinter cell or hitman ? No of course not and i have never stated that, i have simply been saying that you are wrong about this being used as “unintended purposes”

  • BumBumBac
    Castaway

    If the name tags are visible to enemy only at close range and to the crew at long distance then OK, otherwise NOT OK.

    I could go into reasons why but I trust you have intellectual capacity to figure it out for yourself so I can type less and play more. \o/

  • Goedecke Michel
    Marauder

    @callmebackdraft sagte in Mermaids and the player name do not allow stealth.:

    i have simply been saying that you are wrong about this being used as “unintended purposes”

    It was never meant to use "sleeping" as a stealth move, or "pointing" as a way to get 3d person view to be able to lurk at the corner, you know what I mean. But I guess our debate leads away from the OP, so I let go.

  • Alfrythebestboy
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    @blazedrake100 But what does it mean? The task of the mermaids is always the same.

  • Alfrythebestboy
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    @sten-whik Of course, but they will never know if you are still around.

  • Alfrythebestboy
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    @chronodusk Yes, absolutely.

  • Alfrythebestboy
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    @goedecke-michel Why? Aren't they? The developers promptly fixed that the name is not visible when another pirate is underwater. This shows that a stealth approach exists.

  • Alfrythebestboy
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    @goedecke-michel You're wrong, we're not talking about stealth as "spying", but doing things without being seen, like stealing treasures from other ships without the siren showing your presence.

  • Alfrythebestboy
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    @viperishemu2992 About the cheaters you are right!. At this point I would only make changes to the mermaids.
    As they suggested earlier, they could do that the mermaid's spawn happens only if you touch the water, as soon as you get on a ship, or any island, the siren goes away.

  • Alfrythebestboy
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    Update the idea based on your suggestions!

    • No change to the visibility of the name on the players' heads

    • The mermaids spawn should only occur when the player is in the water, or near an outpost. If the player gets on an enemy ship, or island of the map, the siren must go away.

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