Sea of thieves could be a case study on poor game design.

Obviously this will be a mostly negative post, and I'm sure will be met with mostly negative reaction. I was a bit fatigued on Rainbow Six Siege this season so we decided to give the game a go, after all, it's available on xbox games pass. My friends and I came into the game with no interest in the pve component whatsoever, we all come from high level competitive games (We're all diamonds in Siege, top 100 NA, top 500 Overwatch Grand masters, diamond 5 gears of war 4). So yes, I'm aware my friends and I aren't going to be the target demographic. That being said, I'd like to think I know a thing or two about pvp.

Your made up ranks in other games has no bearing to your argument. Also you don't know anything about PvP. You play the same exact game but with different abilities and skins. Its like someone says they know food, but only eats the same sandwich, just with different breading to hold it in.

After spending ~30 hours with the game, here's what I found from the eyes of someone who does not play any story or single player game in any capacity, and only plays hyper competitive multiplayer titles.

You spend absolutely no time whatsoever on this game and you talk like you know what you are doing. From your previous comments about the games you play you are in an area that you have no experience in. How you can determine that the little amount you played is enough to give an in depth opinion on a genre you have no experience in is crazy.

You don't play hyper competitive titles. You play the same type of game competitively. Play other genres competitively then I might actually care about value your opinion.

The concept of hunting questers is alluring, unfortunately, there are so many mechanics placed into the game to limit the skill ceiling that you have to overcome hurdle after hurdle to actually hunt a quester.

The game has no "skill" ceiling. The game is completely based on player knowledge and skill. Players that have played the game for over a year are still learning more and more about the game.

We learn more about the sailing and getting better with our cannon shots. How to read the wind, the waves. How to anticipate what the enemy player is about to do.

For this game the benchmark for a decent player is 4m miles generally. You are at 600k. You are still a noob by our standards.

First and foremost is the sloop sail speed against the wind. This is a way for questers to really enter a stalemate with the aggressive ship that just results in the hunt becoming a coin toss on which team is hindered by a random event first, or in our previous case, the sloop gave up and drove itself into the red sea just to spite us. There's no skill to this, these chases just become a battle of tedium.

The game is made so that players can do what they want. If someone wants to avoid PvP and just PvE, then as long as they can actually defend themselves and run away, they have that ability.

You have to have "skill" to catch someone, which I believe you haven't gained yet.

I have caught every PvE ship I have chased after. If you can't catch a ship then you need to learn how to play better.

The only ships that can really get away is a ship that is piloted by another PvP player and crew, usually they'll just get into a favorable position and just turn around and sink you.

Even when we get to combat, there are so many mechanics that are used as crutches to add "diversity" to the game that impede a player's ability to demonstrate their skill. Kraken's that slow down your ship, pirate ships that shoot balls that put you to sleep or anchor your ship. Taking control away from the player is NEVER GOOD. There isn't a single instance in all of gaming in which removing control from a player is a well received mechanic. If my boat is hit with an anchor ball, there is no counter to that, there's nothing I can do within x period of time to negate the effects.

You make this hard you know that right?

So you got mad that you are bad at this game, but since you believe that it can't possible be you, you instead say its the games fault? Its not that you are bad, its the game fault because its bad, is that it?

The enemy shot you with an anchor ball because either "A" you are bad at sailing and pulled up in a horrible spot or "B" they were good at sailing and lined you up for a shot.

It takes skill to fight off the Kraken and defend your boat at the same time. If someone got away from you because of the Kraken then its just their luck. It happens sometimes. Its not a bad mechanic. Its actually a really nice one.

I've had 2 Galleons chasing after my Sloop because we sabotaged their alliance at a fort and stole the loot right at the end. One of the crews was competent while the other was somewhat decent. We were having a time of it. Thats when the Kraken spawned and man did we go crazy. "HELL YEAH!" They got Kraken'd and we got away.

The surprise of the Kraken is part of the allure of the game. Things like that make this game fun. If someone gets away because you got Kraken'ed, then lady luck was one their side this time. Luck is also a part of a game.

I've seen videos or heard stories of people trying to get away from a PvP ship, only to see the ship that was chasing them get grabbed by the Kraken. They scream, yell, celebrate. Its just one of those moments that really brings life to the game. Luck can either be on your side or on the enemy side.

Players who believe that everything should be in their control are bad players. They will always and forever pick situations that are in favor for them and then get mad when something is disadvantageous to them. They are bad at adapting which means they are actually bad.

Being able to handle random situations is also a skill and sometimes Luck is just Luck.

As for the actual player to play combat, there are so many mechanical issues in it. It's clear that the player to player combat has also had the skill ceiling drastically lowered to accommodate cross platform play. The hitboxes are so large that it's almost impossible to miss. There is no headshot modifier. Sword stun is just another mechanic that takes control away from the player.

The hit boxes are normal to the characters. They are not "large". The game is balanced around console and PC. There is also no "skill ceiling" you and this phrase honestly.

You keep trying to play this game as an FPS. This is not an FPS game. The combat is also incredibly balanced. The sword stun is actually worse if you have your back turned to the enemy, but you probably didn't know that.

The combat for this game is completely dependent on player skill and experience. Like the rest of the game.

The are no real paper rock scissor mechanics in place which I love. I hate playing a game that has so many options. Later it just revolves around the player base finding out which meta works the best and just using that. Then the current meta gets nerfed and again we the player base do our numbers and calculations then find the newer meta that is the new fan favorite. More options sometimes means less options.

You are trying to play this game as an FPS when it is not and you are failing miserably, and instead of you just accepting that you need to change your play style, you claim that its the games fault. "Skill ceiling" you call it.

Learn how to play better, adapt to the play style of the game, ask other players what to do differently.

This is not Rainbow Siege, Overwatch, Division, WoW, CoD, Battlefield. This is not a FPS game, this is SoT.

I love the concept of pvp and pve being intertwined, as it was in Runescape and The Division. The problem, unfortunately seems to be that the pve players are so disinterested in the pvp component of the games that the pvp mechanic is eventually trivialized to the point that it isn't worth doing.

PvP isn't trivialized. You seem to believe that if we made PvP even more rewarding that PvE players would participate? This is where your lack of knowledge for video games is showing. No matter what you try to do, a PvE player will stay PvE. They might try to get their feet wet in PvP but most of the time they just don't want to PvP. Either because of some moral choice or because they are too scared to do it. There could also be other reasons but its their decision in the end.

The game is meant to be played as a PvPvE. If someone wants to PvE the whole game through, that's their decision. If someone wants to PvP through the whole game also their decision. The only down side is that PvE players believe their decision means that the whole game should be that way.

Some PvE Players actually know how to defend themselves and just PvE while killing anyone who tries to hunt them down. These guys are rare though, usually they are PvP players who are taking a break and trying to finish an event.

The update is a step in the right direction, but SO much more would need to be done to the base experience to actually have it feel even remotely skillful or rewarding.

The game doesn't feel skillful to you because you are trying to play it as a FPS and its not an FPS. Again you are failing at this game. Instead of accepting that and realizing that you just need to learn how to play better, you are blaming the game. I mean heaven forbid you could ever be bad at a game with mythical ranks like those right?

---

Now that I'm done with your review lets go to your comment about the update.

The update is a good direction but I fear that its going to hurt the game in the long run.

I'm already seeing posts of PvE Players making statements like "PvP players have Arena mode for a PvP server, why can't we have a PvE server?"

or

"If you want to PvP you have the Arena coming, Adventure mode is meant for PvE, why else would they give you a PvP server?"

I'm afraid that they are playing a dangerous game with the Arena. I just hope it really works out in the end.

---

SIDE NOTE Rare, you need to lighten up on the restrictions. Need to really lighten up BIG TIME. I can't reply to this guy because his name has a restricted word in it. Seriously. He can have the name and make a post but I can't use his name to reply to him?? LIGHTEN UP

I don't think sailing will ever change much but the upcoming addition of the harpoon will defenitely allow new tactics.

Considering forever evading sloops the usual galleon/brig tactic is to use their speed and canons to board the sloop and force it to stop by using the anchor. Sloop vs sloop is harder though for it becomes a mere sailing contest, noobs end usually rapidly out.

Melee combat could use some tweaking though that's for sure, for it's really basic at the moment.

The worst issues of this game is the stupid amount of glitches which you probably did not play enough to experience much. That you can actually rightfully complain about.

Most of your arguments are flawed : there are numerous cheap mechanics in RW6S as in OW which prevent players from moving or reacting thus preventing or garantying a kill : stuns/fast healings/flashbangs/grabbing/sleeping if not simple unavoidable executing ultimate and the such.

There are highly skilled players in this game, most aren't though even in the legends cast, but your real issue is that you're playing an open world pvp game in SoT and not an arena pvp game like RW6S or OW, thus escaping combat or harassing can be a winning tactic.

@lucky-monkee said in Sea of thieves could be a case study on poor game design.:

I am loving the fact that everybody is so great at critiquing game design, even though they might know nothing about it.

First and foremost is the sloop sail speed against the wind - how is that bad design? that is by design like that, you as a chaser have to make the sloop make mistakes. If you cant, thats your problem not the games problem. And to be honest, that is a thing that puts you in the risk, because some sloop crews end galleons easy that way. So by game design, its pretty good.

If my boat is hit with an anchor ball, there is no counter to that, there's nothing I can do within x period of time to negate the effects. - that could be compared to any AI threat in any game. Have you played games where there is a bosslevel? that you just cant skip? Youll hate cuphead.

I wont say anything about hitboxes or such, but talking about skill, youll find many people around here screaming that they are being griefed and killed constantly. (not including spawn killing). And to add to that, skill is in the sailing part aswell, because your ship is a tool that great crews use masterfully.

So... we can agree that the game has some flaws or stuff that you might noft like. But its not bad design, its just stuff you dont seem to enjoy and others do.

And if you are mad that you cant catch a sloop... maybe you should not mess with them if you are sore after that.

But something that really grinds my gears is that I cannot tag you in this post, because "C h r i s t" as a word not allowed in the forums. Now that something to really get annoyed by.

1. It's bad game design because stalemating the players is always bad game design. Again, it doesn't turn into a matter of skill, it turns into a contest of who gets bored first. Either the sloop will get bored and attempt to offload as much loot as they can before you sink them, one of you get left behind by a random event, or the bigger ship gives up.

Waiting for the opponent to make a mistake is not a valid win condition.

"If my boat is hit with an anchor ball, there is no counter to that, there's nothing I can do within x period of time to negate the effects. - that could be compared to any AI threat in any game. Have you played games where there is a bosslevel? that you just cant skip? Youll hate cuphead."

You can beat the entirety of cuphead without ever being hit a single time. Everything can be countered and dodged, that's an awful example.

"because your ship is a tool that great crews use masterfully"

Unless a smaller ship is sailing into the wind, because as you said, that in turn is then reliant on player error for the trailing ship to capitalize.

@xultanis-dragon said in Sea of thieves could be a case study on poor game design.:

Obviously this will be a mostly negative post, and I'm sure will be met with mostly negative reaction. I was a bit fatigued on Rainbow Six Siege this season so we decided to give the game a go, after all, it's available on xbox games pass. My friends and I came into the game with no interest in the pve component whatsoever, we all come from high level competitive games (We're all diamonds in Siege, top 100 NA, top 500 Overwatch Grand masters, diamond 5 gears of war 4). So yes, I'm aware my friends and I aren't going to be the target demographic. That being said, I'd like to think I know a thing or two about pvp.

Your made up ranks in other games has no bearing to your argument. Also you don't know anything about PvP. You play the same exact game but with different abilities and skins. Its like someone says they know food, but only eats the same sandwich, just with different breading to hold it in.

After spending ~30 hours with the game, here's what I found from the eyes of someone who does not play any story or single player game in any capacity, and only plays hyper competitive multiplayer titles.

You spend absolutely no time whatsoever on this game and you talk like you know what you are doing. From your previous comments about the games you play you are in an area that you have no experience in. How you can determine that the little amount you played is enough to give an in depth opinion on a genre you have no experience in is crazy.

You don't play hyper competitive titles. You play the same type of game competitively. Play other genres competitively then I might actually care about value your opinion.

The concept of hunting questers is alluring, unfortunately, there are so many mechanics placed into the game to limit the skill ceiling that you have to overcome hurdle after hurdle to actually hunt a quester.

The game has no "skill" ceiling. The game is completely based on player knowledge and skill. Players that have played the game for over a year are still learning more and more about the game.

We learn more about the sailing and getting better with our cannon shots. How to read the wind, the waves. How to anticipate what the enemy player is about to do.

For this game the benchmark for a decent player is 4m miles generally. You are at 600k. You are still a noob by our standards.

First and foremost is the sloop sail speed against the wind. This is a way for questers to really enter a stalemate with the aggressive ship that just results in the hunt becoming a coin toss on which team is hindered by a random event first, or in our previous case, the sloop gave up and drove itself into the red sea just to spite us. There's no skill to this, these chases just become a battle of tedium.

The game is made so that players can do what they want. If someone wants to avoid PvP and just PvE, then as long as they can actually defend themselves and run away, they have that ability.

You have to have "skill" to catch someone, which I believe you haven't gained yet.

I have caught every PvE ship I have chased after. If you can't catch a ship then you need to learn how to play better.

The only ships that can really get away is a ship that is piloted by another PvP player and crew, usually they'll just get into a favorable position and just turn around and sink you.

Even when we get to combat, there are so many mechanics that are used as crutches to add "diversity" to the game that impede a player's ability to demonstrate their skill. Kraken's that slow down your ship, pirate ships that shoot balls that put you to sleep or anchor your ship. Taking control away from the player is NEVER GOOD. There isn't a single instance in all of gaming in which removing control from a player is a well received mechanic. If my boat is hit with an anchor ball, there is no counter to that, there's nothing I can do within x period of time to negate the effects.

You make this hard you know that right?

So you got mad that you are bad at this game, but since you believe that it can't possible be you, you instead say its the games fault? Its not that you are bad, its the game fault because its bad, is that it?

The enemy shot you with an anchor ball because either "A" you are bad at sailing and pulled up in a horrible spot or "B" they were good at sailing and lined you up for a shot.

It takes skill to fight off the Kraken and defend your boat at the same time. If someone got away from you because of the Kraken then its just their luck. It happens sometimes. Its not a bad mechanic. Its actually a really nice one.

I've had 2 Galleons chasing after my Sloop because we sabotaged their alliance at a fort and stole the loot right at the end. One of the crews was competent while the other was somewhat decent. We were having a time of it. Thats when the Kraken spawned and man did we go crazy. "HELL YEAH!" They got Kraken'd and we got away.

The surprise of the Kraken is part of the allure of the game. Things like that make this game fun. If someone gets away because you got Kraken'ed, then lady luck was one their side this time. Luck is also a part of a game.

I've seen videos or heard stories of people trying to get away from a PvP ship, only to see the ship that was chasing them get grabbed by the Kraken. They scream, yell, celebrate. Its just one of those moments that really brings life to the game. Luck can either be on your side or on the enemy side.

Players who believe that everything should be in their control are bad players. They will always and forever pick situations that are in favor for them and then get mad when something is disadvantageous to them. They are bad at adapting which means they are actually bad.

Being able to handle random situations is also a skill and sometimes Luck is just Luck.

As for the actual player to play combat, there are so many mechanical issues in it. It's clear that the player to player combat has also had the skill ceiling drastically lowered to accommodate cross platform play. The hitboxes are so large that it's almost impossible to miss. There is no headshot modifier. Sword stun is just another mechanic that takes control away from the player.

The hit boxes are normal to the characters. They are not "large". The game is balanced around console and PC. There is also no "skill ceiling" you and this phrase honestly.

You keep trying to play this game as an FPS. This is not an FPS game. The combat is also incredibly balanced. The sword stun is actually worse if you have your back turned to the enemy, but you probably didn't know that.

The combat for this game is completely dependent on player skill and experience. Like the rest of the game.

The are no real paper rock scissor mechanics in place which I love. I hate playing a game that has so many options. Later it just revolves around the player base finding out which meta works the best and just using that. Then the current meta gets nerfed and again we the player base do our numbers and calculations then find the newer meta that is the new fan favorite. More options sometimes means less options.

You are trying to play this game as an FPS when it is not and you are failing miserably, and instead of you just accepting that you need to change your play style, you claim that its the games fault. "Skill ceiling" you call it.

Learn how to play better, adapt to the play style of the game, ask other players what to do differently.

This is not Rainbow Siege, Overwatch, Division, WoW, CoD, Battlefield. This is not a FPS game, this is SoT.

I love the concept of pvp and pve being intertwined, as it was in Runescape and The Division. The problem, unfortunately seems to be that the pve players are so disinterested in the pvp component of the games that the pvp mechanic is eventually trivialized to the point that it isn't worth doing.

PvP isn't trivialized. You seem to believe that if we made PvP even more rewarding that PvE players would participate? This is where your lack of knowledge for video games is showing. No matter what you try to do, a PvE player will stay PvE. They might try to get their feet wet in PvP but most of the time they just don't want to PvP. Either because of some moral choice or because they are too scared to do it. There could also be other reasons but its their decision in the end.

The game is meant to be played as a PvPvE. If someone wants to PvE the whole game through, that's their decision. If someone wants to PvP through the whole game also their decision. The only down side is that PvE players believe their decision means that the whole game should be that way.

Some PvE Players actually know how to defend themselves and just PvE while killing anyone who tries to hunt them down. These guys are rare though, usually they are PvP players who are taking a break and trying to finish an event.

The update is a step in the right direction, but SO much more would need to be done to the base experience to actually have it feel even remotely skillful or rewarding.

The game doesn't feel skillful to you because you are trying to play it as a FPS and its not an FPS. Again you are failing at this game. Instead of accepting that and realizing that you just need to learn how to play better, you are blaming the game. I mean heaven forbid you could ever be bad at a game with mythical ranks like those right?

---

Now that I'm done with your review lets go to your comment about the update.

The update is a good direction but I fear that its going to hurt the game in the long run.

I'm already seeing posts of PvE Players making statements like "PvP players have Arena mode for a PvP server, why can't we have a PvE server?"

or

"If you want to PvP you have the Arena coming, Adventure mode is meant for PvE, why else would they give you a PvP server?"

I'm afraid that they are playing a dangerous game with the Arena. I just hope it really works out in the end.

---

SIDE NOTE Rare, you need to lighten up on the restrictions. Need to really lighten up BIG TIME. I can't reply to this guy because his name has a restricted word in it. Seriously. He can have the name and make a post but I can't use his name to reply to him?? LIGHTEN UP

It takes skill to fight off the Kraken and defend your boat at the same time. If someone got away from you because of the Kraken then its just their luck. It happens sometimes. Its not a bad mechanic. Its actually a really nice one.

"then its just their luck"

"then lady luck was one their side this time. Luck is also a part of a game."

I rest my case

Hi Chris Commando,

I appreciate you have rested your case, but I think you're only seeing things one way, a bit of confirmation bias.

I come from very competitive PvP gaming background also. Indeed I even won a global tournament 10 years ago and have a nice trophy sat on my desk. Despite that, to me the game would be a case study in good game design. Let me explain why I think that.

The game when it first launched was perhaps more how you envisioned it to be. Lots of blood thirsty pirates who wanted to simply trade cannon and musket. You could still do all the things with which you have an issue, however were less likely to encounter it. Times change as players understand and improve.

Players will not always play how you want them to play. Cursed cannonballs can be used to aid escape, or prevent it. Running away is a valid tactic, crucially the goal of the game is not to simply eliminate other players. You have to change your tactics.

Why would a player that you are attacking, engage in a dual to the death. They likely have something to lose. The aggressor likely has nothing to lose. If a player/s is already running from you, then you have already failed in surprise. So you have lost the first part of the battle.

I would write a long post on tactics, but you have a whole team of competitive players. If between the team you are unable to come up with ways to catch and kill enemy ships and players.. That is not a fault of the game shipmate!

That I have so hugely enjoyed a PvEvP game, that ties all the elements in so well means Rare deserve a pat on the back imo.

@bugaboo-bill said in Sea of thieves could be a case study on poor game design.:

SoT Adventure Mode is a PvPvE sandbox like game mainly about PvE (Adventure) but also with the possibility of pvp.
It's not an Arena Match about killing each other!
PvP is about competing over PvE content and loot (Forts).

All who are on the edges and extremes,
Hardcore pve or pvp gamer who want or play it only for this or that miss the concept and wont have that much fun or need to make compromise.

The game is only about playerskill and player experience!
There is no gamemechanics that makes you different, no different weapon, no stats, no skills, nothing but you and how you use your control input device.

To say the combat mechanics are casual and watered down to overcome a power gap between console and PC players isnt wrong, but it's then again the players skill what makes the difference.

It's like a motorcylce race and professionals doing a race on 50ccm machienes.
The Tool (game, 50ccm Motor) is maybe not that powerfull than Counterstrike or a 1000ccm moto, but competing under same conditions is about the players / drivers skills, not the Tool/machienes/ game.

Dont know how to say that better in english.

Your English is fine, bud. Very good!

I'm excited to see how much the damage propagation changes altar one of the most annoying aspects of the game, which is that a sloop can out-repair cannon damage. It's board or bust, currently.

SoT is a PvP/PvE mashup. So obviously there are going to be compromises on both sides of the spectrum to achieve optimal game balance.

If you (and you friends) are truly hardcore PvP players SoT may never be the right choice for you. Nobody competes in the Tour de France on a mountain bike for a good reason. There's nothing wrong with the Mountain Bike's design. It's just the wrong race for that type of bicycle.

That said, Arena mode is coming out in a week and it addresses most of your issues.

But if you interest is purely chasing down and harassing unwilling PvE players who want nothing to do with you.... A harpoon is also coming in a week which will make catching them much easier.

@katttruewalker Appreciate the post. I get the idea, and there are always going to be trade offs for this type of game.

"We're not restricted by levels, stats, progression, closed off areas, gated quests or regions just for high level players"

Highlight of the game.

"Rep levels don't give you artificial skills, buffs, passives, overpowered weapons or anything else which would boost your performance."

Again, awesome.

I appreciate what they're trying to do, I just think the mechanics need to be tuned to add some depth outside of "board ship, anchor, kill, sink". There aren't epic ship battles because a sloop can out heal the potential damage of a galleon. If you don't board, you don't sink.

As I mentioned in the post, the player vs player gun and sword mechanics are very poorly implemented and never feel good. It feels good to hit a ship with a cannon, sword stunning a guy, getting a headshot without a headshot damage multiplier, or just hitting them in general with ship sized hitboxes don't feel good. If it's going to be a game about boarding and fighting on a ship, that's fine, at least make that combat a little deeper.

@chris-commando said in Sea of thieves could be a case study on poor game design.:

@bugaboo-bill said in Sea of thieves could be a case study on poor game design.:

SoT Adventure Mode is a PvPvE sandbox like game mainly about PvE (Adventure) but also with the possibility of pvp.
It's not an Arena Match about killing each other!
PvP is about competing over PvE content and loot (Forts).

All who are on the edges and extremes,
Hardcore pve or pvp gamer who want or play it only for this or that miss the concept and wont have that much fun or need to make compromise.

The game is only about playerskill and player experience!
There is no gamemechanics that makes you different, no different weapon, no stats, no skills, nothing but you and how you use your control input device.

To say the combat mechanics are casual and watered down to overcome a power gap between console and PC players isnt wrong, but it's then again the players skill what makes the difference.

It's like a motorcylce race and professionals doing a race on 50ccm machienes.
The Tool (game, 50ccm Motor) is maybe not that powerfull than Counterstrike or a 1000ccm moto, but competing under same conditions is about the players / drivers skills, not the Tool/machienes/ game.

Dont know how to say that better in english.

Your English is fine, bud. Very good!

I'm excited to see how much the damage propagation changes altar one of the most annoying aspects of the game, which is that a sloop can out-repair cannon damage. It's board or bust, currently.

Damage update is one of the things I am most excited for. The sloops ability to sail away following 4 players shooting 30-40 cannon balls into the side of it is suspect. It should be very positive change.

I appreciate what they're trying to do, I just think the mechanics need to be tuned to add some depth outside of "board ship, anchor, kill, sink". There aren't epic ship battles because a sloop can out heal the potential damage of a galleon. If you don't board, you don't sink.

There are epic ship battles, you are just not having them. A sloop can not out repair a galleons damage thats why it has to move out of firing range.

You really don't know enough about the game and should instead get better at it first.

As I mentioned in the post, the player vs player gun and sword mechanics are very poorly implemented and never feel good. It feels good to hit a ship with a cannon, sword stunning a guy, getting a headshot without a headshot damage multiplier, or just hitting them in general with ship sized hitboxes don't feel good. If it's going to be a game about boarding and fighting on a ship, that's fine, at least make that combat a little deeper.

This is not an FPS game. You should really stop trying to treat it as such.

Characters don't have ship sized hit boxes. You just aren't used to no hit mitigation because all you play is FPS games. This is not an FPS game.

Boarding is part of the skill to take down ships. I'm taking a wild guess that the reason you don't like it is because you are actually dying.

The combat has depth to it. Positioning has a big role to play in combat.

I rest my case

About what? You rest your case about the Kraken and that sometimes Luck plays a role in the game? How is that a bad game mechanic. That is an awesome game mechanic.

If someone can actually get away from me because of the Kraken, then kudos to them and I hope they celebrate like crazy when they get to turn in their loot.

Not everything has to be determined by players. Randomness adds spice to the world of the game.

I will again mention. THIS IS NOT AN FPS GAME. This is an open world PvPvE game. Some mechanics are in place so that players who are actually good can get away. The chaser has to be better at sailing then the person they are chasing.

The fact that you let a sloop get away when you were on a Galleon either means "A" You guys were bad and should get better, or "B" the sloop was really good.

If the sloop ran away its more than likely it was a PvE boat since most PvP sloops will hunt down Galleons and not run from them. Which means you couldn't catch them because you guys were bad at sailing.

Seriously first learn more about this game.

Second play more different genres of games and broaden your knowledge and experience. "I play competitive FPS games." means absolutely nothing and gives you no credit when you review this game, since its not an FPS game.

If the game started adding some FPS mechanics or you wanted to give some ideas to add some more FPS style gameplay then yes your experience would be valuable. You suggesting the game is bad and saying you know what you are talking because you are an FPS player is just silly.

Again, its like someone trying to say they can critic a sweet desert when you never eat sweets.

@xultanis-dragon said in Sea of thieves could be a case study on poor game design.:

I appreciate what they're trying to do, I just think the mechanics need to be tuned to add some depth outside of "board ship, anchor, kill, sink". There aren't epic ship battles because a sloop can out heal the potential damage of a galleon. If you don't board, you don't sink.

There are epic ship battles, you are just not having them. A sloop can not out repair a galleons damage thats why it has to move out of firing range.

You really don't know enough about the game and should instead get better at it first.

As I mentioned in the post, the player vs player gun and sword mechanics are very poorly implemented and never feel good. It feels good to hit a ship with a cannon, sword stunning a guy, getting a headshot without a headshot damage multiplier, or just hitting them in general with ship sized hitboxes don't feel good. If it's going to be a game about boarding and fighting on a ship, that's fine, at least make that combat a little deeper.

This is not an FPS game. You should really stop trying to treat it as such.

Characters don't have ship sized hit boxes. You just aren't used to no hit mitigation because all you play is FPS games. This is not an FPS game.

Boarding is part of the skill to take down ships. I'm taking a wild guess that the reason you don't like it is because you are actually dying.

The combat has depth to it. Positioning has a big role to play in combat.

I rest my case

About what? You rest your case about the Kraken and that sometimes Luck plays a role in the game? How is that a bad game mechanic. That is an awesome game mechanic.

If someone can actually get away from me because of the Kraken, then kudos to them and I hope they celebrate like crazy when they get to turn in their loot.

Not everything has to be determined by players. Randomness adds spice to the world of the game.

I will again mention. THIS IS NOT AN FPS GAME. This is an open world PvPvE game. Some mechanics are in place so that players who are actually good can get away. The chaser has to be better at sailing then the person they are chasing.

The fact that you let a sloop get away when you were on a Galleon either means "A" You guys were bad and should get better, or "B" the sloop was really good.

If the sloop ran away its more than likely it was a PvE boat since most PvP sloops will hunt down Galleons and not run from them. Which means you couldn't catch them because you guys were bad at sailing.

Seriously first learn more about this game.

Second play more different genres of games and broaden your knowledge and experience. "I play competitive FPS games." means absolutely nothing and gives you no credit when you review this game, since its not an FPS game.

If the game started adding some FPS mechanics or you wanted to give some ideas to add some more FPS style gameplay then yes your experience would be valuable. You suggesting the game is bad and saying you know what you are talking because you are an FPS player is just silly.

Again, its like someone trying to say they can critic a sweet desert when you never eat sweets.

I like that you think that I have trouble with the mechanics. They're trivialized to the point that a child could master them. I've literally never lost a gunfight and must average close to a 20 k/d ratio.

As for the game not being a first person shooter.... You run around, in the first person, with a gun.

As for the sloop I didn't catch, they went into the red sea to spite us. Please, tell me the counter to that.

and yes, the characters absolutely have huge, skilless hit boxes. It's basically impossible to miss, you can shoot a head away from a guy and still hit them. The projectile you shoot is like shooting a tree on top of it. No headshot modifier.

You can pretend this is a deep game that I just "don't understand", but it isn't.

@xultanis-dragon

To be fare to Chris Commando, since launch I have been on both sides many times of a sloop dropping sail, and repairing having been hit with full broadsides from a Galleon.

True if it stays still ultimately it will be destroyed but that hardly ever happens if the players are on or running back to the ship.

It once again comes down to board them and drop anchor. Firepower alone cannot accomplish the task.

That is why I think ship damage has been addressed. To make ship to ship combat more risky.

I have had some hilariously long solo v solo sloop battles where neither side can sink each other :D

Reading this thread, I'm pretty convinced that this game is just not for you, in much the same way that Civ6 is not the game for you based on your criteria of what makes a good game. You're looking for an experience that the game was not intending to focus on. It doesn't mean the game is designed poorly, it just wasn't designed for the experience you were expecting.

Your issues with the game are exactly what makes the game what it is, because the intent of the game the developers are going for is for players to have stories and fun times with it that often involve other crews, often involving BUT NOT EXPLICITY about combat.

So, a story about chasing after a ship you know is loaded with loot, only to be stymied by a kraken attack provides a player-involved narrative and a tale to tell. The random events in the game add to narrative. The combat is simplified because it is not a FPS.

Everyone who has played this game for any period of time has stories that do not focus on ship to ship or player to player combat. That's what Rare is going for. That's why there's no leaderboards of who sank the most ships, or any mechanic that focuses on rewards or recognition for combat.

I find the game immensely fun. The numerous active players all seem to agree, and while many have gripes about specific mechanics, or aspects of the game, it's still fun. It may not be your cup of tea, and that's fine.

@nabberwar said in Sea of thieves could be a case study on poor game design.:

I'd tag you but I can't.

First as others have said, you've come into this game with expectations that will not be met. However most have already said this, so I'm just doing little snippets I find contradictory/odd.

Taking control away from the player is NEVER GOOD. There isn't a single instance in all of gaming in which removing control from a player is a well received mechanic.

While no one likes getting hit with CC, they are still quite prevalent in most highly competitive games. Too use your games listed, Ana's sleeper dart, Reinhardt's Earth Shatter, and Zarya's Graviton Surge. Now while they have some forms of counter play, they all have in common that they take control of the player if hit, and once hit not much can be done til the time completes. Now the same could be applied to Sea of Thieves, not like dodging, but bad ship positioning. Better ship positioning implies being able to shoot but not be shot upon, or at the very least to not expose your most vulnerable spots.

Those abilities are great examples, we could include Brig and Doomfist as well!

Those abilities have been nerfed across the board, as they are among the most hated mechanics in the entire game. Brig, with her CC, was undoubtedly the most poorly received character ever put in the game because CC is poor game design.

@clayboy828

It is going to make my task of getting 20 Skeleton Captains Skulls and chest impossible solo I think. Currently on 4/20 and 5/20 so no chance of doing it before the 30th :D