Make red sea running againist the rules

@ghostpaw said in Make red sea running againist the rules:

@lt-l00t said in Make red sea running againist the rules:

@musicmee "Tactics" you call " I dont wanna PvP because its toxic so im going to red sea my loot so nobody can have it and leave the game" tactics???

Yep! In that case they clearly out-sailed you and you failed to catch them off guard in time to cut off their escape routes. They also deincentivized you and your crew from engaging in long chases, at least with that crew. That’s a strategy. You might not like it since you didn’t get the outcome you wanted, but it is a strategy.

That's not "outsailing" as you put it as a chase can just as begin as near as the center of the maps and as far as the corners. Although not completely ban red sea movement, if one sinks in it, the treasure should definitely float back into the game. A strategy is successfully outmaneuvering another ship in the red sea only to return back safe with minor damages and in hopes that the enemy got stuck in those waters.

Deliberately sinking your ship on the out of bounds area to make your treasure untouchable by any including you isn't a strategy, just sore loosing

@htodogvan said in Make red sea running againist the rules:

@wyvernkraehe ok what if my strat is spawncamping someone? Oh now lets get our torches and spears up hes upsetting someone

Spawn camping is viable at outposts because 1. there's more than one, and 2. You have the ability to scout the island before actually docking and selling

In arena it's also viable because of the same reason

@htodogvan

alight no need to start throwing insults, we can all agree to disagree. I didn't mean to insult anyone, just that the act in itself of dropping treasure because " If I can't have it then no one can" can be defined as feeling sour about a losing circumstance and not necessarily as a "strategic maneuver" to potentailly win at any circumstance in the game. There is no sound maneuver or "strategy" where one deliberately makes a plan knowing that it ends with them failing.

Furthermore, this can be considered bad sportsmanship and as per the community code of conduct (Which applies to the forums and the community: aka the players: Aka the game) it's not allowed (As per the "Be a good sport" section). It also seems to go against article 3 and article 7 of the pirate code, combined.

To break it down:
article 3 Disputes settled upon the waves: States that engagements are settled with guns, swords, and good seamanship. Seamanship might be difficult to precisely define, however, as per my explanation above, dumping treasure within the premise that if one can't have it then no one else can, can be considered bad seamanship. Not to mention it's out of bounds game area which might not even be considered "Upon the waves"

Article 7 Those who cheat shall be punished: Pirates who show bad form and cheat crew or others shall face punishment. Again, this "technique" of casting treasure out of the border of the game may be considered "bad form"

Shame the rules are so broad and general. Again, I cannot repeat how much this game sometimes needs better and more specific rules and regulations for all players to follow

@red0demon0 said in Make red sea running againist the rules:

There is no sound maneuver or "strategy" where one deliberately makes a plan knowing that it ends with them failing.

But how do you decide what 'failure' is? The person chasing might consider the runner being sunk as them failing, but the runner might consider denying the chaser of any loot winning, even if that means a trip to the red sea. So by running to the red sea they aren't failing, but succeeding at denying the chaser any loot.

@htodogvan selfish? Sounds like entitlement on the chasers that feel that way. If it’s not your loot, why should you choose what people do or don’t do with it. If you can’t catch them before they hit the Sea, and still continue to chase them, then you never deserved their loot to begin with.

I don’t get why some, feel they’re entitled to other people’s loot. Chasing someone in a straight line until they get off the map isn’t skillful. You’re not out playing the opponent just because made them Red Sea Run. And there are no killing coms in adventure, so that argument is void.

And let’s keep it respectful. Don’t need this thread getting locked.

@mferr11 said in Make red sea running againist the rules:

@red0demon0 said in Make red sea running againist the rules:

There is no sound maneuver or "strategy" where one deliberately makes a plan knowing that it ends with them failing.

But how do you decide what 'failure' is? The person chasing might consider the runner being sunk as them failing, but the runner might consider denying the chaser of any loot winning, even if that means a trip to the red sea. So by running to the red sea they aren't failing, but succeeding at denying the chaser any loot.

Here is an example: We can think of the game as a giant war arena in this respect. The war is won if the treasure is turned in but the battle is won if one maintains the treasure during moments of clash. There are different ways to keep the treasure whether it is out sailing, sinking, or stealing. Each war might have multiple battles, but each battle is significant in how the war plays out. This is from a single objective standpoint though, of course there could be multiple other standpoints.

However, denying loot to anyone for the sake of denying loot is just bad sportsmanship. Denying loot is like denying the "ball" in a sports game, it's fine to do it inside the field of the game but I'd argue that denying it outside of the field is not as it not only denies it to the opponent but to yourself as well.

You could argue the opposition to my example of a sports field by stating that those games are timed but I would counter that the timer isn't significant, as long as you can outmaneuver your opponent in the game, you will end up winning, and scoring at an outpost. The only significance of time in a timeless game like sea of thieves comes in the fact that outmaneuvering is dependent on complete success. Meaning successfully selling at an outpost with enough distance to not be caught

Ahoy, everyone!

Thank you so much for partaking in a discussion on our forum! Please remember, in accordance with our rules, please remember to be polite and refrain from any name-calling.

Be respectful. Sea of Thieves is a game for everyone regardless of age, gender, race, sexuality, nationality, creed or disability. Treat everyone with respect. Diversity only enriches this larger-than-life pirate community of ours and makes Sea of Thieves’ world a far more interesting one to explore. When we all play, everyone wins.

Be courteous. Don’t insult players you don’t know. If humour is the intent, remember that this can be lost or misinterpreted online, and words can very easily offend. Be mindful of what you’re saying and if someone asks a question, see if you can help them out as you’d appreciate being helped out yourself if the roles were reversed.

Thank you,
Happy sailing!

@ghostpaw said in Make red sea running againist the rules:

@red0demon0 said in Make red sea running againist the rules:

@ghostpaw said in Make red sea running againist the rules:

@lt-l00t said in Make red sea running againist the rules:

@musicmee "Tactics" you call " I dont wanna PvP because its toxic so im going to red sea my loot so nobody can have it and leave the game" tactics???

Yep! In that case they clearly out-sailed you and you failed to catch them off guard in time to cut off their escape routes. They also deincentivized you and your crew from engaging in long chases, at least with that crew. That’s a strategy. You might not like it since you didn’t get the outcome you wanted, but it is a strategy.

That's not "outsailing" as you put it as a chase can just as begin as near as the center of the maps and as far as the corners. Although not completely ban red sea movement, if one sinks in it, the treasure should definitely float back into the game. A strategy is successfully outmaneuvering another ship in the red sea only to return back safe with minor damages and in hopes that the enemy got stuck in those waters.

Deliberately sinking your ship on the out of bounds area to make your treasure untouchable by any including you isn't a strategy, just sore loosing

I already responded to that line of thought. Look back. If you go after a ship in a better position than you then that’s on you. Circle around without spooking them, or wait for a better position. This is just basic hunting. If you go straight at a ship when the situation favors their possible escape then you didn’t strategize very well. You’re wanting to turn the sea into a cage. A situation that favors the aggressor since they win the loot either way. Currently the situation favors neither side since both lose. Just don’t pounce on the other ship to early. Get in a better position first.

By that logic, then the game is already a cage as the player is punished for reaching the Red Sea and furthermore for going deeper into the Red Sea as it will make the the ship disappear. "The cage" symbolism here is based on perspective., you call it a cage I call it a playing field, it's subjective. Every game can be considered a caged area as there are limits to how far you can go in them. I can see where you are coming from but the game does not favor anyone in respect to who defends or attacks. Overall we can assume the attacker is more prepared but ultimately what matters is how the defensive crew manages to perform as they are the ones that determine where the battles take place. Even upon the confines of the game, which is by no means small, one can outmaneuver themselves well and escape pursuit enough to sell away loot. Furthermore, it's not like those on the defensive are helpless animals stuck in a cage with a lion, both defender and attacker have means to attack and defend themselves.

We are speaking too generally so it's difficult to determine what you exactly mean by escape, but I wouldn't consider sinking as an escape, sinking should be considered loosing . From the get go, any player that is decently experienced and skilled at the game will be able to escape an incoming ship when they are situated at an island. However, any player, regardless of level of experience can simply sail to the Red Sea and sink. As I said before, the one who determines where the battle takes place is not the attacker but the defender. So as long as the defender can evade the attacker in the field it's fine, even if they managed to go into the Red Sea and come back without sinking it is fine. As long as the ship battles, chases, or whatever one wishes to call it takes place in the game field is fine as both parties will continue to challenge each other to outmaneuver the opposition.

You blame the attacker for not being able to catch a ship which is fine if the case was that the defender managed to out Witt or out maneuver the attacker to the point they get left behind or don't have enough time to catch the defender before they can reach an outpost and cash in their loot but that is not the case with the Red Sea, there is no challenge, difficulty, or skill required to sink your own ships beyond the game's borders. All one needs to do is head full speed in the direction of the wind, keep going past the game border, and done. Even if the defender gets attacked it's fine because you don't have to outright survive the encounter all one would need to do is survive long enough to reach the border. How is this favoring the attacker? Because they initiated the chase, and may determine how long the chase will last? Well the defender has the chance to out maneuver, increasing the distance till they are gone.

Example, in other games ( such as battlefield, call of duty, blazing sails, and many others) you won't see any player being chased by another deciding to head outside of the game's playing field to deny the opposition points. It's bad sportsmanship that punishes players with a countdown to death and some games even penalizes them further.

@htodogvan There are no rules, however, there could be a system where loot would drift out of the red sea and be recoverable

@lt-l00t
You can. Then they scuttle and spawn elsewhere.

Look red sea is no longer really that bad. If it happens, you just take your Reaper flag to the nearest portal and find some fresh meat on the next server if yours empties. Rare clearly has now covered both sides of the issue so both types of players can get what they want from the game.

@htodogvan chasing someone for hours is also done ‘to upset someone’ so maybe we should make chasing be against the rules then 🤔🤔

It’s funny how angry you get because you didn’t get loot tha didn’t belong to you in the firdt place and for which you didn’t even do anything to deserve.