Pronouns Please

I’ll be brutally honest, if someone is being transphobic and is intentionally disrespecting your pronouns, this won’t make them start respecting them.

It’s not a bad idea, I just don’t think it will get the use you hope it will, if anything, it might be a conduit for more transphobia as people will be looking for the pronouns to get under your skin.

I don’t mean to sound like a robot or obvious here, but if someone is being toxic towards you, you can record the behaviour and report it to the support team. It can be a coin flip sometimes but my experiences are more 70/30 ban vs no ban, the 30 could be chalked up to lack of evidence. I would not suggest using the ingame report feature

I hope your experiences on the sea against other players improve and you see less transphobia

everyone always says "got him”

Well this more of a genetic reply to every scene. Regardless of gender

It’s not disrespect. It’s the same old problem in real life…..
Nobody knows, nobody cares. Guys play as female avatars, or wear dresses. Nobody cares. We are “Pirates” that is all.

I think @Boneheart1237's is right and that adding your pronouns would paint a target on you and you'd likely experience more transphobia rather than less.

That being said, I still support the option of displaying your pronouns if you want to.

It's a bit like flying the pride flag on your ship. It's not going to protect you from anything. If anything it draws more aggro. But I still fly it whenever I sail, and if the option to include my pronouns comes up, I'll do that too. As Boneheart says, if someone wants to be transphobic, including your pronouns probably won't stop them, but I support the option for wider reasons of increased visibility and normalisation.

And just to echo the above, if you can get evidence of someone openly admitting that they're transphobic, definitely report them if you can, though I know it's not always as easy as that.

I love inclusivity and representation, and that’s why I find it frustrating that Rare introduced a progress pride flag back in pride 25’ but haven’t added any other inclusive flags since (over a year).

No Mental Health awareness month flag
No Autism Awareness month flag
No Cancer screening awareness week flag
No Disability Awareness month Flag
Ect, Ect

Let’s focus on equal flag representation before we add pronouns.

@adaadhd
The phrase "Got him" does not exist in sea of thieves quick chat. The phrase you are thinking of is "Got 'em!" which is avaliable when holding any weapon except the double barrel pistol, which says "Got 'em! Twice in fact!" instead. 'Em is a colloquial pronoun for them.

@spectergames706, arguing that "We shouldn't fix X, until we've fixed Y" is rarely an approach that leads to progress. The change you want is good and you should continue to push for it, but there's no reason it can't make progress side by side with OP's suggestion. There's no need to put including pronouns on hold until we've got equal flag representation, just like we don't need to put flag representation on hold until we've included pronouns. We're on the same team, making progress towards the same goal: accessibility, visibility, inclusion and representation.

i mean if someone is openly transphobic after rare adds it at least it lets me know who to block not even just with callouts. its just a good way to keep my game fun and enjoyable is all, I'm sorry but if a pirate wants to resort to saying rude and hurtful things about who i am as a person just cuz they sunk in game they deserve to be blocked i deal with it enough already.
I don't wanna hear it on my adventures

I'm sorry but if a pirate wants to resort to saying rude and hurtful things about who i am as a person just cuz they sunk in game t

There are worse things to be said about someone instead of "misuse of pronouns" in a video game.

I don't wanna hear it on my adventures

Mute is our friend here.

I feel like this would be very easy to add and there is no reason for them not to

@burnbacon

There are worse things to be said about someone instead of "misuse of pronouns" in a video game.

If someone complains saying "I went out for a walk and someone punched me in the face", the correct response is not "Yeah but they didn't stab you did they?".

As I said above to spectergames, the fact that there are other/ bigger problems does not mean we need to put everything else on hold and solve things one at a time. Transphobia/ intentional misuse of pronouns is behaviour that Rare does not want on the seas, so providing feedback and suggestions on that topic is valid and useful, regardless of what worse things people might be saying.

@eligibleeel6171 said in Pronouns Please:

@burnbacon

There are worse things to be said about someone instead of "misuse of pronouns" in a video game.

If someone complains saying "I went out for a walk and someone punched me in the face", the correct response is not "Yeah but they didn't stab you did they?".

As I said above to spectergames, the fact that there are other/ bigger problems does not mean we need to put everything else on hold and solve things one at a time. Transphobia/ intentional misuse of pronouns is behaviour that Rare does not want on the seas, so providing feedback and suggestions on that topic is valid and useful, regardless of what worse things people might be saying.

My my, why I'm not surprised you're comparing being hurt from a word (mispronounce) with actual violence. Lol.

Same "progressive" reaction every single time. Ridiculous. 😂

All I'm gonna say on this topic, and in general, is that people who can't control their emotions need to start seeking therapy. There is no amount of representation in video games that's gonna fix their obvious issues. Same as for those that want to be toxic, there is no amount of measures that's gonna stop these clowns.

That said, any toxic behaviour should be reported and banned. No debate there, and doesn't matter what the toxicity was about. Rare has clear guidelines.

But let's not compare colibris to elephants here. 😉

I think it’s important to remember that People are jerks.

Although I understand the importance to some people of adding pronouns to this game, I worry it would just give toxic players more info about a person in which to antagonize them about.

A while ago I sank to a pretty toxic duo sloop. They didn’t know anything about me, so they just deployed a very rude slur…that didn’t apply to me.

But say, if I had pronouns above my head, or heck, a flag on my ship, they would know EXACTLY what to say to upset me.

And that’s why I find this situation strange. We have one group that is being represented but not others. But by being represented, toxic players know exactly what to say to upset those players.

Would pronouns really help? And even if there weren’t any toxicity, what about religious folk who don’t feel comfortable utilizing preferred pronouns? Is exercising religious beliefs toxic? At what point does one’s preference violate someone else’s rights?

You see, I’m spiraling here. The honest answer is I don’t know. I just want people of every nationality, creed, and sexuality to enjoy this silly pirate game.

As the great pirate captain hunter said it best.

“No no, No men. No….Pirates” :)
-Salazar

@adaadhd said in Pronouns Please:

i mean if someone is openly transphobic after rare adds it at least it lets me know who to block not even just with callouts. its just a good way to keep my game fun and enjoyable is all, I'm sorry but if a pirate wants to resort to saying rude and hurtful things about who i am as a person just cuz they sunk in game they deserve to be blocked i deal with it enough already.
I don't wanna hear it on my adventures

Wouldn’t you already know who to block and/or report on the account of the toxicity and transphobia? That already is pretty inexcusable behaviour

Something I feel many people don't recognize is that choosing not to show representation in a game because of the idea that it will be used as ammunition to insult or belittle others is not the correct way to go about protecting a community. It suggests that a person or community should stay quiet to avoid conflict rather than express their identity. This is not protecting the community, but instead contributing to bigotry by establishing the idea that it is not normal.

Another thing that I've noticed in this thread is the repeated suggestion that words do not have serious effects, and that a person who experiences verbal harassment needs to grow up. Humanity is built on language. No social system would be able to exist without words. They are a vital part of all of our lives and they do have deep impact on everybody, regardless of whether or not you choose to acknowledge them. To claim that words don't have real impact is false.

I've also seen people say that they "don't want to see it" in their video games. If that's an issue for you, then you don't seem to take to heart your own perspective that words are just words and you should get over it. (And from my perspective it's not much different from having a displayed name)

As I said before, I don't see any reason not to add this feature. If someone doesn't want to share their pronouns for fear that they will be bullied or otherwise harassed, they don't need to. Denying the ability for everyone exposes that you don't actually care about the person who wants to express themselves, you just don't want to see it. If that's the case, and you oppose expression because you're uncomfortable seeing it, then the person who wants you to know their pronouns may not the one who requires therapy (as I've seen has been mentioned in this thread).

Overall, the claim that presenting pronouns can make it easier for bigots to harass a person is suppression disguised as sympathy, the idea that it doesn't matter because words don't have meaning is untrue and also suggests that it shouldn't affect anyone if a person DOES choose to share their pronouns, and it's a simple feature that has no negative impact if added.

@thathappyhat

Another thing I somehow neglected to talk about is that in this thread it has been suggested that it would be a pointless addition because even if people who are toxic and transphobic don't use it as ammunition, they would not pay attention to the pronouns. But this is something that the majority of people here probably already know. What this would do, however, is make it easier for people who DO respect the way a person identifies to know how to refer to them, not just for respect and kindness, but also for clarity.

Pronouns are a way of identifying a person you are referring to. It doesn't exist exclusively for people who are transgender or nonbinary, and could also benefit anyone who has experienced someone using the wrong pronouns to refer to them. This could be, for example, because the person doesn't use voice chat and only types or uses the chat wheel. Another thing I've seen happen in various games numerous times is a person say to a crewmate or an enemy "I can't tell if you're a woman or a little boy."

Regardless for the reason someone may want to display their pronouns, it simply makes the lives of everyone involved easier and prevents annoyance, even if evil people will be rude regardless.

@fred-fisheye

Some interesting points. To clarify, none of the following text is meant as a personal attack towards you. The pronoun "you" in this message will sometimes refer to you specifically (such as when citing your message), and sometimes to refer to the general population.

Where did you get your statistic for that? Where did you learn that the "vast majority of gamers" don't think culture belongs in video games? Video games are media. Culture exists within them. Video games have always been about expression and have always included real world themes (as is the case in every piece of media). In fact, Sea of Thieves is actually one of the games that proves this, as for several years it has had a nonbinary character in Emily. So if you want a video game that avoids culture and does not bring "political viewpoints" into focus, Sea of Thieves is not the game for you.

Also, the idea that pronouns are inherently political and a "narrative" is simply false, and I already addressed that. Even if you do hold hatred for a particular group in your heart, and feel uncomfortable when presented with viewpoints and lifestyles that differ from your own, as I previously stated, this does not only affect people who are transgender or do not conform to any gender ideology. It affects anybody who has ever been referred to by the wrong pronouns or gender and have gotten upset by it, regardless of whether or not it's the gender they were assigned at birth.

Again, I agree that Sea of Thieves is a game that people might use to escape reality. Now whether or not you believe in the rights of any given community, it's unfair to assume that a break from reality only applies to you. In this case, it looks to me like a break from reality means being able to spend time without needing to see or interact with people who don't hold your beliefs (or more specifically, who don't conform to gender norms). Ignoring, what I've already stated about who this benefits, this statement implies that these people shouldn't similarly be able to have a break from their own reality, in which many people claim that they should not, or do not exist, or that they do not deserve rights, by being able to express themselves in what is, as you pointed out, a game.

You also brought up pushing political agendas. I again repeat how this would not only apply to people within the LGBTQ community. I could also once again point out that being a form of media, culture and therefore politics are inherently ingrained in Sea of Thieves. But I'd rather focus on the idea that this would be a political update. I recognize that the rights and freedoms of the LGBTQ community are, unfortunately, subject to debate. And therefore those things are political. But their existence is not, nor is the concept of pronouns. This addition, while it would appeal to the LGBTQ community (and, again, many other people as well), would in pure function solely be about improving communication and respect. If you choose to interpret that as political because people are now capable of making their gender as clearly identifiable as their username, that's on you, and you are making yourself uncomfortable.

I recognize that you bought it to have fun. But fun means different things for different people. If a player can't have fun when presented with another player's pronouns, the fault lies not in the feature but in the player's ability to interact with people of different backgrounds. I would also like to point out that a player who enjoys the hourglass mode likely has a different perspective on what is fun from a player who prefers to stack world events, or from one who mostly plays through tall tales. Fun means something different for everyone, and one of the most basic principles of games like Sea of Thieves is the ability to cater to multiple different playstyles so that everyone is able to enjoy themselves, no matter how different they are.

I'm interested in the comment you put forth that you "didn't buy the game to protect a certain community nor do [you] want to deal with their problems." I'm curious, in what respect would the developers adding a feature allowing anybody to present their pronouns along with their name imply that you are protecting this "certain community?" And in what respect would other people saying whether they go by he/him, she/her, they/them, or any other pronouns mean that you are somehow dealing with their problems? As a cis man, I could enter my pronouns as being he/him. If we came across one another in game, would I have now deposited the burden of any problems I have in my life on you?

Now your closing statement, about culture wars not belonging in games and giving people the freedom to enjoy their spare time, I feel that by the way you've been describing the LGBTQ community (specifically by implying that they are bringing in their "political viewpoints" and that they are pushing their "narratives" and "agendas" simply through wishing for more clear and easy communication), those two statements seem to contradict each other. If you believe that the LGBTQ community, along with the vast majority of the human population of Earth (as near every language contains pronouns, whether gendered or not) is inherently political and that they should not have representation or be able to openly present their gender, then those people who are having their expressive freedom suppressed are not, in fact, free to enjoy their spare time. Again, this (by the way that I read it) looks like a double standard, as many people enjoy their spare time through self expression.

Overall, all media reflects reality. Sea of Thieves features characters who don't conform to gender norms. Whether or not people in the LGBTQ community exist is not a political topic. The existence and use of pronouns are not political topics (as I mentioned in previous messages, pronouns in this situation do not only refer to people of the LGBTQ community anyway). Games are for enjoyment, but enjoyment is experienced in different ways and means something different to everyone, as is reflected by the fact that there are many different ways to play Sea of Thieves. Catering to different ways of having fun is one thing that makes many similar video games successful. By allowing people to have their pronouns showed in game, the developers would be improving communication and respect, and would not in any way be forcing other players to "protect" those communities. People using pronouns are not forcing other players to "deal with their problems." And lastly, preventing people from expressing themselves harmlessly in a video game is not "giving people the freedom to enjoy their spare time," but rather stripping that freedom from people of a certain community.