Crew finding + PvE to practice PvP

  • So, as I've said in a recent thread, I do know a lot about this game, and tend to favor the side of not only the developers and their intentions for the game, but also the PvP-side of the playerbase that value well-executed skill and maneuvers (which others like to call exploits). Point is, my mind cannot jog around a few things because I straight up cannot understand how these concepts work on a personal mental level and it eggs me on consistently - and why I'm in the stump I'm currently in when others can jump back on their feet for this game.

    Crewing

    Crews are without a doubt, the reason this game is remotely playable. However, my issue is that having nearly 3 years of experience behind me I cannot tolerate an extremely slow pace of adventuring, or the hopelessness of inevitable tough PvP encounters, doubly so because crews I'm in have a tendency to leave and never return. This always happens in Open Crew, but even before I was removed from the Official SoT Discord, the crews I managed to gather or join into always leave and never seek to have me in crew again after a single sink or a single activity we might get done successfully.

    I've essentially used both group-finding platforms (Discord LFC and Xbox LFG (Tip: don't do this as a W10 user)) but found little success in keeping reliable crew for as much as a few hours a day, nothing weekly, barely anything monthly. The friends that I had for crewing either stopped playing the game for their own reasons (usually boredom/frustration, redbeard, timezones), and the friends I could make seem to involve playing in ways that have either bored me, or made the entire crew frustrated.

    I am not sure if there is a guide to making and keeping crews, but it would be nice to know this recipe that content creators seems to consistently have that I do not. Chances are I'm probably impatient about having good crews to sail with so soon, especially since I've started forcing myself play the game for when I decide to stream it on Twitch myself.

    PvE practice for PvP

    This. This always messes with me because I still, to this day, cannot comprehend how PvE encounters are a good stepping stone in learning for PvP, especially because my nearly 3 years of experience don't leave me super efficient in either playstyle.

    "Ghost fleets are great practice for cannons!" Really? How come steering is so awful when you have to solo these fleets? I do not have a great track record fighting Ghost Fleets solo. I'm either too far from the opposition to hit any super far cannon shots (as a sloop), or I get too close to the boss ships and risk taking multiple ram-holes failing to defeat the ship in 20 cannonballs when it needs me to kill it in 25.

    "Tackle the skeleton fleet to practice cannons." Ah yes, as a solo sloop, the only way to practice PvP without feeling like you're getting embarrassed/frustrated by another player, is being put on infinite water-bailing (bilging) duty. I know I'm referring more to Skalleons/ Multiple Skloops, which by default, are brutal for solo sloops due to their consistent cannon power and cursed cannonballs spam, but I want to practice my cannon aiming and knowing where I'm hitting the enemy.

    "Circle around a fort and aim at the towers!" How is that remotely practice? Unless I was playing the game without music, the satisfaction of hearing crunching crash sounds isn't really there because in PvP, cannonballs can reg and have either dealt no damage to the opposition, or put an actual hole in them (or you struck their docked rowboat). Far cannon shots hitting are also a mystery unless you stare at the cannonball hitting the enemy, which I find inefficient and silly-looking either way.

    I know I just ranted about my awful/assumptious experiences with these methods of practice, but it shows my level of understanding/patience in regards to these pieces of advice. I would really like some deeper or better understanding at what practicing on PvE actually does for PvP, because outside of steering my own ship, it's hopeless to even practice firing cannonballs, which is my favorite thing to do in a naval battle hands down.

    Help, please

    No seriously if you lads and lasses genuinely have any insight on these issues and introduce a level of understanding that even I couldn't figure, I would be eternally grateful for your assistance here, because my brain fries trying to understand these issues myself.

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  • The best way to practice PvP is to PvP. Sadly most let their pride get in the way.

  • Definitely agree with the point about crewing. There need to be some kind of filters implemented in open crew, because as of right now open crew functionality is next to useless, and discord lfc is frustrating because of the amount of time you have to waste.

  • This. This always messes with me because I still, to this day, cannot comprehend how PvE encounters are a good stepping stone in learning for PvP

    Same can be said playing other games, you play the single player campaign mode. But does that get you ready for playing against other players? No & Yes. Gets you ready to understand controls and how they work, but the human mind + gaming system changes once your against other players who do things beyond the game.

    Ghost fleets are great practice for cannons!" Really?

    Teaches you how to hit ships, Aim below the waves, fight against a ship that also repairs and shoots back. Unlike players tho..the npc tends to AimBot you :p

    How come steering is so awful when you have to solo these fleets?

    Sounds like a you/player issue. sorry

    I'm either too far from the opposition to hit any super far cannon shots (as a sloop), or I get too close to the boss ships and risk taking multiple ram-holes failing to defeat the ship in 20 cannonballs when it needs me to kill it in 25.

    Sounds to me you are learning just not understanding what you learned.

    Ah yes, as a solo sloop, the only way to practice PvP without feeling like you're getting embarrassed/frustrated by another player, is being put on infinite water-bailing (bilging) duty.

    Hmm? It called multitasking. Solo playing is difficult, your alone. Got to manage your ship & deal damage. Same with other games, you have to hit targets while also managing your health.

    "Circle around a fort and aim at the towers!" How is that remotely practice?

    Yeah that new to me.

    The best way to swim, is to jump into the deep end.

  • I think your two issues are more related than you realize. So while my goal is to answer them both, I'll be interweaving my answers across multiple points instead of tackling them separately. And I'll be doing so with a single (longwinded) analogy:

    Let's say you've never golfed before and decided to pick up the sport. You also want to golf a few times a week. Many golf courses, if you don't know, won't let you "golf alone" unless they are very slow. A single player is a spot on the golf course that doesn't make them as much money as a group of four does. And is also usually a sign if a player who might have issues that slows down play for groups behind them.

    Now for a small tangent: Many golf courses won't turn away single players. But they forcibly pair them up. It is not uncommon to show up as a single and be asked to wait until a two-some or three-some (or multiple other singles) are also waiting, and a tee-time opens up (cancellations, etc). And if you call ahead for a tee-time, they'll either pair you or keep a list and call back if they get other requests that they can pair you with.

    So if you, as a new golfer, might want to play and might not want to get paired with randoms. So you want to meet some folks an establish a regular group to golf with. Completely reasonable. How would you go about all of this Well, for starters, almost nobody can teach themselves how to golf. You need someone to teach you. Sometimes that can be a peer, but in the golf world, it is very common to pay for lessons from a professional. They get paid to be patient and help you. But believe me, if you mouth off to your new coach, they'll likely decide your money isn't worth it and walk away.

    Let's apply this to Sea of Thieves. There are no paid coaches that I'm aware of (and might be against terms of services if there were) but there are plenty of good pirates out there willing to lend a hand. But like golf, trying to learn while playing solo will not teach you much (usually.) You are just too busy multitasking to get any good practice at any one thing, and that means you don't learn at the pace you probably want or need to.

    Which means you have to go into finding a crew with HUMILITY. From your post, I can interpret that you have not been patient with some crew members in the past, and getting removed from discord is another red flag of some behavior that you probably have to look inwards at changing. Nobody wants to golf with the person who throws their 5-iron in the pond because they landed a shot in the sand. Know what you don't know and be willing to learn from the folks who want to teach you (because it benefits them!) That goes a long way to both getting a crew, k keeping a crew, and learning more about PvP.

    Next thing. Once you know the basics of golf, you still have to practice. You don't practice golf by going out on the hardest golf course you can find and accidentally putting yourself in the most troublesome places your new (still learning) skills happen to land you in. No. Golfers, new and experienced alike, use this place called a "driving range" to practice. They hit an entire bucket of balls using one club (or two, or maybe three.) Sheer repetition so your brain and your muscles connect. So you learn that "on average" your 5-iron goes 150 yards for your muscle strength, bone density, height, etc. And you start making small changes to your swing to correct that rightward drift that seems to happen in every shot you take. Sure, you still go play golf sometimes, and hopefully have a group of folks you now golf with (maybe you got paired with them as a single one time.) But you also practice. A lot. Because that is how you learn and improve.

    In sea of thieves, that means playing with your group and taking on a specific role. Again, if this is the group also taking on the challenge of teaching you, listen to them and take the role they ask, not necessarily the role you want. Good bilgers didn't just get there overnight. They spent plenty of fights just bucketing out of a grate and seeing water splash in their face to get the muscle memory to see the rock of the ship, the angle they need to throw, the pace at which the animation resets. It takes a lot of practice. Same with helm. Same with cannons. Same with boarding. You can't do it all at once. Many crews do rotate out to keep their skills sharp (enough) but will also learn who is good at close quarter vs sniping across the waves vs anticipating angles to lob cannonballs. I've known very experienced pirates who can hit a snipe shot on someone on an opposing wheel at distances that you'd think might be cheating. But cannons were so potato that they rarely got on cannons in a heated PvP fight. (which also leads to accusations of aimbots, but we play on xbox, and I know this dude in person, he doesn't aimbot.) So in PvE, we swap things up and do whatever needs to be done. But in PvP, he will bilge and snipe as opportunity allows.

    As you practice, you'll learn your strengths and weaknesses. Don't be demanding of your crew; they know your strengths and weaknesses to and chances are they will ask you to do whatever gives the crew the best chance to win. If you are consistently going against that grain (leaving ship to board and then getting blackscreened when taking a mermaid because inevitably you missed, and then the ship sinks because they were short manned....well....chances are you'll stop getting invites to crew up with those folks even when they see you online.

    Which brings me to the PvE to learn PvP. Again, like a golf course, when playing a real round, you'll find yourself in all sorts of situations that the driving range and practice green will never put you in. You'll be in sand. OR land on a sprinkler head. Or behind a tree. And you'll have to improvise to get yourself out and your score will probably suffer for it. But that doesn't mean the practice wasn't worth it. PvE will still help you better judge range on cannons. Or learn how to bail when those ghost ships put 25 holes in you. You say you are either too far or get tanked....which is exactly the kind of practice you need (maybe not solo!) but multitasking, communicating with the crew, and prioritizing. How far can you push letting the water rise to eliminate ONE MORE ghost ship before its all hands to bail? How fast can you recover so you can deal with the next wave? None of this changes with PvE vs PvP. The only thing PvP does is throw more at you. PvE will aimbot your ship, but good PvPers know when you are on cannons and might harpoon you. Or know when you are on ropes to recover your mast and will aim at that section of the ship....decisions PvE AI's don't make. Take the multitasking balancing act of PvE and turn it up to 11 because you have to learn when to disengage from the ropes and eat. Or deal with suddenly being harpooned onto another ship (pro tip, they are still on harpoon and you are dropped behind them. Fast reflexes and a blunderbuss can turn their good play into your better play pretty quickly.)

    The point being that PvE still gives you the fundamentals like a driving range does, and then PvP throws a bunch of unexpected stuff at you (because players are erratic, where AI is not) like a real golf course would. PvE forces you to multitask and prioritize. PvP adds an element of needing to improvise on top of it.

    But 100% first and foremost, you need a crew. And you need to be patient with them because I absolutely promise you that, based on your question, they are being more than patient with you. LFG is still a fine way to build your friends list to sail with (don't solo!) and spread it around until you find that person or group you really click with. They'll feel the same most likely (its like dating...when you know, you know.) But if you go out on a date and wear your grubbiest t-shirt and belch and yell at the waiter that your soup was cold, chances are you aren't getting a second date with that person. And, like dating, don't be needy. Its okay to play the field. Crew up with different people if they are online. Have a friends list that is 20-40 people deep so there is always someone online interested in playing. Take what comes to you instead of demanding someone play with you because you are ready to play.

    Eventually, you find that person/crew who happens to keep a similar schedule and has complementary skills. And then you sloop it up. Or decide to try to build out more towards a brig. Or a galleon. Or you find you got invited to a brig/galleon from LFG and its a crew that works ...ready-made! If you are patient and not a jerk to them. ....but let's not go down the rabbit hole of having a regular 3-some or 4-some date. That could get awkward. Unless you are Bill and Ted and married some medieval princesses. (Bonus points for those that got the reference.)

    Carry on. That's just one man's lame advice.

  • ''PvE forces you to multitask and prioritize. PvP adds an element of needing to improvise on top of it.''

    That is true, but at the core, its always about prioritizing what needs to be done, and that can change every second of a PvP fight, do I bucket, raise a sail, shoot cannons to keep pressure off first?
    PvP is a mental checklist of what needs to be done first for maximum efficiency. For that to happen you need a lot of hours of exposure because as ''bland'' as PvP in this game might seem to an outsider, its filled with small details and calls that need to be made. A fight can be thrown just because you didn't set your sloops helm 5 degrees more to the left resulting in over-turning, or missing an extra cannonball that could of decided the fight. (Oneball, demast, destroying enemy helm, etc.)

    When it comes to crews, you've got the idea, its about finding the right crew to Jell with first and foremost, yet most importantly in a PvP aspect, is keeping your cool when going on a losing streak if you are new to PvP and be OPEN to criticism for every crew member on that ship.

    For cannon aim practice, playing with some really good top players in this game that have 95% winrates in hourglass, I don't ever hear them practicing cannons on fort towers, or ghosts fleets. Some might say they do, but do they really put it into practice in reality?
    Ok, a day 1 player WILL see benefits in doing that, but if you somewhat shot over 1000 cannonballs in this game over 3 years, you know more or less how cannons act yet, struggle to know the nuance of waves/angle depending on your ships speed & turn radius.

    If you want to get good at cannons, play a lot, that's the ''secret''. Sloop cannons are different then Galleon cannons which are more stable when 1 sailing compared to triple sailing.
    Yet that being said, even Gall vs Gall ''Good'' crews don't hit lower decks enough to pressure a bilge/flex into going bottom deck when it comes to a mid range broad. Knowing how to shoot lowers on a consistent basis, in my opinion I have not come across a lot of players that are at that level, outside of being close-mid broad.
    As a bilge main on Galleon. 90% of the crews I face, I probably call my flex once to help if that in an hourglass fight. Compared to a competitive game with 2 good teams, a flex could be stuck grate bucketing for over 60% of the fights duration.

    If you & your crew can shoot lowers long-mid range closing to close range, you are miles ahead of 99% of opponents, the amount of pressure that you exert by doing that is ridiculous. And nothing worries a bilge more then being stuck bottom deck for 90% of the fight with 4+ holes calling for flex buckets.

    @BurnBacon Hit the nail on the head, only thing PvE prepares you in PvP is knowing basic game mechanics/controls.
    PvP is a different ball game to learn.

    If you are perma on bilge as a solo slooper, your doing it wrong (Unless you have been death-spiralled in which case yeah.)

    watch streamers/videos, depending on the holes, they bucket once every 10-20 seconds outside of doing other tasks. Just because you have 2 holes on your sloop DOESN'T Mean you have to immediately rush down and repair/bucket to full health. You can stager and get cannon pressure back on your 1v1 .
    Galleon is different where it sinks really fast so patching immediately (Which you can, since theres the bilge role that is there from the get go)

  • PvE allows you to learn the basic function. I practiced my pistol hipshot on the sea fort phantoms because it's multiple shots in quick succession. Repetition is what is needed when learning a new skill. PvE gives that in a safe environment. You then take this to PvP and hone it in. I did exactly the same for quick swap cancel (which is an exploit not a skill). Didn't take me long to nail that down using EoR/Pistol on phantoms. I now apply it in PvP. Same way in the early days I practiced cannon aim on ghost fleets and fort towers, it gets you used to a cannonball's trajectory and how this changes in relation to the ships movement. Putting this into practice in PvP refines the skill.

    The only element that can't be practiced in PvE like IX Indi XI has said is the split second decisions you make, when to bail, when to apply pressure etc and the other one to add is ship positioning, that can only be practiced in PvP.

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