Pvp should mean KOS in outposts

  • @crowedhunter said in Pvp should mean KOS in outposts:

    @nabberwar I just want to say how much I hate the argument of "This isn't reality." It's such a cop out. Yes it is. I'm a real person and so are you. You don't pretend to be a pirate, you are a pretend pirate.

    You're more than that, so it's easy for you to dismiss the part of you who likes being a pretend pirate and since you do that it's easy for you to dismiss everyone else who is a pretend pirate.

    But there is not a single moment of any of this that is taking place outside of reality.

    Even the game world exists in a very real, physical state. It just looks like a computer unless you view it from your own computer.

    You missed the /s.

  • @fretfulfiber809 said in Pvp should mean KOS in outposts:

    @tenriak That argument is still really dumb. "Why would you want to kill the Ender Dragon in MineCraft? Just Mine and Craft!"

    You do have to kill the Dragon to get things to CRAFT with...

    The better counter is the definition of 'thief' :
    a person who steals another person's property, especially by stealth and without using force or violence.

    So it's called Sea of Theives not Sea of Murder Hobos....

  • You realize the people at the outpost are pirates, too, right? So your entire argument about not wanting to trade with pirates is invalid. Pirates don't care where the loot came from. All they care about is that they're the ones that get it.

  • @fretfulfiber809 said in Pvp should mean KOS in outposts:

    @tenriak That argument is still really dumb. "Why would you want to kill the Ender Dragon in MineCraft? Just Mine and Craft!"

    Not really. If people were advocating for removal of mining and/or crafting in Minecraft then it would undermine a core aspect of the game. Thievery is a core aspect of SoT. Every other element of the game (including outposts) is in service to that.

  • @crowedhunter said in Pvp should mean KOS in outposts:

    @captain-coel If considering other players people is too romantic of a concept for you, you're going to have a miserable life.

    Im not sure you understand. I consider them people, but generally also consider them my enemy. Also I fail to understand how my consideration of other people in a GAME is going to lead to a miserable life... You might be taking this escape from reality a little to seriously.

  • I think a cool immersion would be if you are running a reaper emissary the normal trade outposts will not buy / sell to you. It is also bizarre that there are reaper ritual tables on outposts after Golden Sands, not to mention in the first place.

    However, the game is moving towards making things easier for people. Making it harder for Reapers probably won't happen even though in game that makes sense. However, Reaper hideout will need to sell crates. Balance could be certain locations on islands have smugglers that will deal with reapers?

    I'm thinking more immersion versus how pvp players should be handled. We all know most reapers are pve'ers anyways.

  • @crowedhunter said in Pvp should mean KOS in outposts:

    @captain-coel It is you who misunderstands. I was saying that your actions really affect people. Nobody is saying that shooting someone in the game is the same as shooting them irl. But the emotions people feel are as real as any other emotion they feel. They aren't physical either, but they are substantial.

    That's the fundamental truth that you are dismissing. If you can't respect the emotions of your peers, and I suspect you can't considering how disrespectful you've been to me, then why should your peers respect you?

    You know this is a game right? A PvPvE game? That means that the enemies in the game are both the PvE threats and the PvP threats. If someone that is playing Sea of Thieves and cant emotionally handle the loss of loot/life/ship that is not my problem. It is their problem and maybe they should consider a different game. Yes it is a harsh line to draw, but the PvPvE crowd is who this game is for. There is a reason there are not PvE servers. You are expected to lose your loot, your time, your boat. Understanding that is a big portion of being able to play SoT.

    I just can not be bothered to care if someone gets upset that they lost in a video game. It is a game and I am playing it the way it was designed to be played.

  • @crowedhunter said in Pvp should mean KOS in outposts:

    @captain-coel Dude I'm not even gonna read your reply if you can't stop trying to act like I'm insane and making arguments that I'm not making.

    Wish I could say it was nice knowing you, but I think best I can manage for you is a good riddance.

    Lol. Hope to see you on the seas!

  • @crowedhunter Ill likely be on the Toxic Tall Taler. I havent picked a name for my second sloop yet. Or my galleons Murderous Sheep and Queen Jane's Revenge.

  • @captain-coel said in Pvp should mean KOS in outposts:

    @crowedhunter Ill likely be on the Toxic Tall Taler. I havent picked a name for my second sloop yet. Or my galleons Murderous Sheep and Queen Jane's Revenge.

    I was long considering slaughtered lamb after my favorite tavern title in my favorite movie but haven't done it yet.

  • @crowedhunter said in Pvp should mean KOS in outposts:

    @captain-coel It is you who misunderstands. I was saying that your actions really affect people. Nobody is saying that shooting someone in the game is the same as shooting them irl. But the emotions people feel are as real as any other emotion they feel. They aren't physical either, but they are substantial.

    That's the fundamental truth that you are dismissing. If you can't respect the emotions of your peers, and I suspect you can't considering how disrespectful you've been to me, then why should your peers respect you?

    Look at this from another perspective. When people watch movies they can also feel difficult emotions. Fear, sadness, grief, anger, etc. If I go into a horror movie and feel fear does that mean the team behind the movie was not respecting their audience? That they were not being humane? No. They created an experience that I opted into. I could opt out at any point by turning it off or exiting the theater. But I do not advocate for them to change the movie because I felt something uncomfortable. SoT players opt into the same thing when they load the game. They do not know what they are going to experience that day, but the possibilities include anxiety, loss, defeat, anger, and so on. It is part of the deal. @captain-coel is part of that. They are an actor within a story and play a role in the experience for other players. Their role is just as valid as the kraken, the skeleton ships, and all other threats within the game. As long as a player is participating within SoT then they are opting into an experience that they can stop at any moment.

  • @crowedhunter said in Pvp should mean KOS in outposts:

    @captain-coel I think I actually found your Toxic Tall Taler the other day! It was just a logbook though. I knew I recognized your name.
    Anyway, have fun bullying children and telling them how stupid they are for feeling things until I come and put you in your place!

    Im never going to know they are children. Im never going to be toxic over the microphone. I generally say things like: GGs", "Thanks for the Loot", or just simply "Bye"! I am glad you found my log book, I think its interesting that they stay even after a boat has only been to the docks.

  • @usher2hell how is that realism, the trading companies don't care who sells the loot or where it came from. Your own crew trolling you sucks, report but sounds like common in open crew. In terms of other ships sinking you, sounds like you need a reality check in terms of expectations in this game

  • @pithyrumble I do love them murder hobos on the seas, they spice up my adventure at any time!

  • @crowedhunter "GG" is just proper gaming etiquette since forever. I would consider anyone not saying "GG" or some equivalent as being rude.

    "Thanks for the loot" is a bit more cheeky and I wouldn't blame someone to be a bit frustrated but that's not bullying either.

    Reading your conversation, I think you take games way too seriously.
    It's ok not to like losing in a multiplayer s game, but that's not the end of the world. It happens to all of us. Going into a pvpve game with the expectation of never losing and getting frustrated when it happens seems more like entitlement than being a bully's victim.

  • @crowedhunter said in Pvp should mean KOS in outposts:

    @ghostpaw I don't appreciate the implication that I haven't considered this from the perspective of a victim-blamer.
    I do appreciate jerks. Because I can't do anything about them IRL so it's very fulfilling for me, to be able to put them down in-game. But I'm not going to sit there and act like they're being friendly. Especially not jerks who can't even bother trying to talk to me and just say something dismissive and disingenuous as "GG" or "Thanks for the loot". They have no intention to play a game with me. They intend to offend me and to sit here on forums and act like I owe anyone a thank you for that experience is what's truly delusional.

    you don't owe anyone anything. but no one owes you anything either. Chances are if someone attacks you, they wanted your loot or maybe just couldn't trust you. If they really inteded to ruin your experince or where being toxic, then I could understand...but if they're just trying to get loot and say "gg" they're not a bully or a jerk...they're just playing the game. Just like this post is not to bully you. You seem to group almost all pvp as "toxic" and I'm just here to say that is probably not the case.

  • @crowedhunter said in Pvp should mean KOS in outposts:

    @realwebber69 said in Pvp should mean KOS in outposts:

    @crowedhunter said in Pvp should mean KOS in outposts:

    @ghostpaw I don't appreciate the implication that I haven't considered this from the perspective of a victim-blamer.
    I do appreciate jerks. Because I can't do anything about them IRL so it's very fulfilling for me, to be able to put them down in-game. But I'm not going to sit there and act like they're being friendly. Especially not jerks who can't even bother trying to talk to me and just say something dismissive and disingenuous as "GG" or "Thanks for the loot". They have no intention to play a game with me. They intend to offend me and to sit here on forums and act like I owe anyone a thank you for that experience is what's truly delusional.

    you don't owe anyone anything. but no one owes you anything either. Chances are if someone attacks you, they wanted your loot or maybe just couldn't trust you. If they really inteded to ruin your experince or where being toxic, then I could understand...but if they're just trying to get loot and say "gg" they're not a bully or a jerk...they're just playing the game. Just like this post is not to bully you. You seem to group almost all pvp as "toxic" and I'm just here to say that is probably not the case.

    Didn't ever say toxic. And it hasn't been my experience with people saying GG, so maybe that's a difference in experience between the two of us. I hope to meet good sports such as the ones you're describing. Some people enjoy being annoying. Me saying that they are annoying isn't the same as throwing a fit. I wish you guys would stop trying to project so much BS onto what I'm trying to say.

    @grog-minto said in Pvp should mean KOS in outposts:

    @crowedhunter "GG" is just proper gaming etiquette since forever. I would consider anyone not saying "GG" or some equivalent as being rude.

    "Thanks for the loot" is a bit more cheeky and I wouldn't blame someone to be a bit frustrated but that's not bullying either.

    Reading your conversation, I think you take games way too seriously.
    It's ok not to like losing in a multiplayer s game, but that's not the end of the world. It happens to all of us. Going into a pvpve game with the expectation of never losing and getting frustrated when it happens seems more like entitlement than being a bully's victim.
    What kind of scenarios are you imagining over there? I haven't been sunk since like a week before captaincy update and that wasn't to a player. I just see a lot of bad faith participation and call it out. Saying GG and not meaning it, is bad faith participation. I may be overly earnest or even naive at times, but none of this stuff is anywhere near as dramatic to me as you guys seem to want to believe so badly.

    Some people are jerks and in this context, they need to exist for there to be a game. I'm not fond of skeleton lords or Meg either. Is that me taking the game too seriously too?

    What are you trying to say? As plain as can be, let's hear it.

    Also how do you want other people to play? I am curious, I don't think it will match with how the game was designed.

  • @crowedhunter said in Pvp should mean KOS in outposts:

    @realwebber69 said in Pvp should mean KOS in outposts:

    @crowedhunter said in Pvp should mean KOS in outposts:

    @ghostpaw I don't appreciate the implication that I haven't considered this from the perspective of a victim-blamer.
    I do appreciate jerks. Because I can't do anything about them IRL so it's very fulfilling for me, to be able to put them down in-game. But I'm not going to sit there and act like they're being friendly. Especially not jerks who can't even bother trying to talk to me and just say something dismissive and disingenuous as "GG" or "Thanks for the loot". They have no intention to play a game with me. They intend to offend me and to sit here on forums and act like I owe anyone a thank you for that experience is what's truly delusional.

    you don't owe anyone anything. but no one owes you anything either. Chances are if someone attacks you, they wanted your loot or maybe just couldn't trust you. If they really inteded to ruin your experince or where being toxic, then I could understand...but if they're just trying to get loot and say "gg" they're not a bully or a jerk...they're just playing the game. Just like this post is not to bully you. You seem to group almost all pvp as "toxic" and I'm just here to say that is probably not the case.

    Didn't ever say toxic. And it hasn't been my experience with people saying GG, so maybe that's a difference in experience between the two of us. I hope to meet good sports such as the ones you're describing. Some people enjoy being annoying. Me saying that they are annoying isn't the same as throwing a fit. I wish you guys would stop trying to project so much BS onto what I'm trying to say.

    @grog-minto said in Pvp should mean KOS in outposts:

    @crowedhunter "GG" is just proper gaming etiquette since forever. I would consider anyone not saying "GG" or some equivalent as being rude.

    "Thanks for the loot" is a bit more cheeky and I wouldn't blame someone to be a bit frustrated but that's not bullying either.

    Reading your conversation, I think you take games way too seriously.
    It's ok not to like losing in a multiplayer s game, but that's not the end of the world. It happens to all of us. Going into a pvpve game with the expectation of never losing and getting frustrated when it happens seems more like entitlement than being a bully's victim.
    What kind of scenarios are you imagining over there? I haven't been sunk since like a week before captaincy update and that wasn't to a player. I just see a lot of bad faith participation and call it out. Saying GG and not meaning it, is bad faith participation. I may be overly earnest or even naive at times, but none of this stuff is anywhere near as dramatic to me as you guys seem to want to believe so badly.

    Some people are jerks and in this context, they need to exist for there to be a game. I'm not fond of skeleton lords or Meg either. Is that me taking the game too seriously too?

    So sorry if I misunderstood. I just thought that what you were saying. I'm not going to argue with you, I'm just going to ask you two questions:First off, Pve/pvp only servers have been confirmed to NEVER be added, so how are you gonna deal with this? And secondly, how do you tell the jerks from the....not jerks?
    Thanks, the real webber.

  • Gentlemen, gentlemen, let’s try keep the thread on track, yes?

  • @scurvywoof said in Pvp should mean KOS in outposts:

    Gentlemen, gentlemen, let’s try keep the thread on track, yes?

    Agree, let’s not sit here and argue about someone’s play style anymore. Just provide your thoughts on the OP.

  • @crowedhunter You know if there is one thing this game has taught me is that you go in and expect to lose in this game. I've been sunk and lost an hour or two's worth of progression before. It definitely doesn't feel nice but I learned not to care too much about it and I'm usually the angry type in video games.

    I do tall tales when I'm alone because those have checkpoints. When I play with friends, we do emissary voyages and it is not difficult to get to the top 25% every month for those cosmetics tbh. Requires like a few days of grinding with friends on a Brig. We always watch the horizon and we sail efficiently to not cross other players. We also managed to defend ourselves multiple times and even win fights.

    Your worst enemies in this game are other players. Other people in this game are given the complete anonymity and with that comes a power trip that many people befall to and abuse. So they assert dominance, so to say, by absolutely trashing you in a fight and trash-talking you because they get their rocks off doing it. It gives them satisfaction because if they did that in real-life, well.... consequences would come of it.

    People are given the tools to kill and destroy in this game. So naturally, they will kill and destroy without the real-world ramifications. When you launch this game, come to term with these facts and expect the worst, hope for the best. You will find that if you just check the horizon frequently, you will turn in all your loot 9/10 times.

    3 tips on effectively avoiding players:

    • Check the horizon. Check frequently and monitor ships that you see on the horizon. See where they are going, if they are coming towards you, passing by, or going away.
    • Plan around player ships. If you see a ship that's in your way to your destination, circle around them, check if they start tailing you or if they are just minding their own business.
    • Sell frequently. Never do lots of events and voyages at once and then turn in all the loot at the end. The bigger the loot pile, the worse the fall. As soon as you reach Grade 5 emissary, SELL SELL SELL.

    Hope your future voyages will be better.

  • @usher2hell oke my man please calm down

    1. This is sea of thieves

    2. The factions dont care how you get your things just get them

    3. Have your tried closed crew before?

    4. Im gonna get a lot of flak for this but most of the pvp side of the game are the best people you can ever meet ofcourse there are some rotten apples but a hell of lot less then the pve side of the coin

  • @crowedhunter said in Pvp should mean KOS in outposts:

    @kozakderg I appreciate the advice. Perhaps it will be useful to someone who is upset about losing. I understand why people participate in bad faith. I do it myself from time to time and that's why I let other people swing first. It just makes me feel a little better when I cross the line. Nobody is perfect and I understand that.

    I used to be upset so many times, losing in games, sometimes it would ruin my mood for a day, it ain't healthy for sure. 😅 But loot is really easy to come by in the game and it's everywhere in abundance, we can usually make back fairly quickly what we may have lost and one thing I saw mentioned on the forums and I cannot stress this enough, but it is a game after all.

    Trust me, I struggled with treating games as such and got too emotionally invested into sessions that left me with a sour taste when I was defeated. But I'm slowly learning to accept that some sessions are just like that and try to appreciate any good that comes out of it and put that in perspective instead of the ultimate defeat at the end.

    I'm not going to condone people casually condescending to other people though. That's not an environment I want to live in, and despite my protesting I'm not the one trying to tell anyone they have to leave for their mindset.

    I don't think anyone does. The real issue is when people don't distinguish between toxic squads and people who just want to PvP or even avoid it. Many times I have heard people say "I've collected 3 hours worth of loot just for someone to come in and steal it all. Toxic people I swear." The problem here is that the enemy here are called toxic for engaging in fair play. They wanted loot, they bested them, they got their reward, regardless of emissary status or such. As such is the intended mechanic of the game, the ability to steal from each other.

    Now of course if they trash-talk or spawn camp without trying to sink your ship, that can be called toxic, because it's their enjoyment to the detriment of another player on unfair grounds. Not many things can be called unfair as this game is fairly relaxed on boundaries and rules, so the only rules pretty much are to not be a jerk, call out the ggs and not use offensive language or slurs to berate the other player.

    You have to make your own rules of engagement in the game and defend yourself. There are cannons on islands you can use and it is very effective against unaware ships to climb into a cannon tower and blast them with everything you've got, most of the time they get close to these towers too because they don't expect anyone to be in there, you jump on their ship and cause even more chaos.

    Of course if PvP is not your forté, you have the necessary tools provided in the game to avoid it.

  • @crowedhunter said in Pvp should mean KOS in outposts:

    @kozakderg Can you point to where I called people toxic for engaging in PVP?

    Not you specifically. I mean in general, from Steam reviews and other forum posts. It happens a lot and that's what's been driving the "pve servers" narrative also for example.

    Ultimately Sea of Thieves is a largely sandbox game, cause of the lack of rules and boundaries set up by the devs. The game itself has a learning curve and people make their own rules in the game. Rare intended it that way and I don't think it will ever change.

  • @crowedhunter said in Pvp should mean KOS in outposts:

    @kozakderg I appreciate you making the distinction. I agree with you. I enjoy PVP too. I also enjoy the making your own rules aspect of the game. I also want to clarify that I misunderstood the post and don't think that ships should be sunk at outposts for PVP, I just think outpost plays should be more like grabbing the reaper items bc those events don't really catch the fancy of non-reapers but racing a reaper to retrieve your loot is more motivating. As it stands, they would just sell it there. But then at the same time Reapers only have one location to sell at and with sovereigns they aren't the most convenient option anymore.

    Yeah, this is why me and my friends check the horizon for any ships right before we roll-in to the Sovereigns. If no ships are on the horizon, there is a slim to none chance for anyone to come and steal our loot off-loaded, unless we didn't check for a tucker.

    With sovereigns we usually sell in 5 minutes or less. If no ships are on the horizon, it will most certainly be more than 5 minutes for a ship to arrive and intercept us and by that time we sold all our loot and lowered the emissary flag. In retrospect, we lose nothing, they gain nothing and lose resources. Selling for the Reapers stay as difficult as before, since they don't have a harpoon station on their island.

  • Ahoy!

    I am sorry to hear that your gaming experience was not to your expectations. If you're crew is sinking your own ship, hindering your game, refusing to cooperate, or saying uncomfortable things, you may want to report them under the support tab on the top of the website, doing so will open the tab, go ahead and click on report a player button to begin the process of submitting a request. It is highly recommended that you have proof in the form of a video where the crew member(s) is/are caught in the act.

    As for other players doing pvp, this shouldn't be something that happens frequently. From experience, there will be times when you will go hours on end or even days without being attacked.

    In the meantimes, I suggest that you reconsider some strategies and take on a more defensive play style until you gain more experience with the game. For any outcome, assume the worst, and plan accordingly. If a ship is in sight, assume they will attack and be ready for it. There are many ways to play, prepare, and handle each new situation you may come across, but learning from them will make you a better pirate.

  • @usher2hell This is not the Sea beyond the Sea of Thieves where the Grand Maritime Union run the show. Sea of Thieves doesn't have to worry of those pesky law officers sailing around!

  • @gallerine5582 sagte in Pvp should mean KOS in outposts:

    This game isn't about realism if you noticed, from the whole world events, Flameheart, Kraken, megalodon, Ferry of the damned, living skeletons, siren Shrines and Treasuries

    I See nothing unreal Here tho... O.o

    But that aside, toxcicity is Not being sunk, it's the way ppl behave while playing against other Players...

    I Just Had the best Battle in my entirety of SOT which i sadly lost...
    But still it doesnt Hurt because there where only complimets afterwards for both Crews... They won they earned it, next time ill get em...
    Thats how it's supposed to be :)

    (Mermaids, sirens and the ferry are real!!!) :D

  • @p4l3ryder ever play any online multiplayer? every community has nasty toxic people. only way to win against them is not give them the time of day and change servers til you find a less agressive tide. if fight is an issue, sell often, scan the horizon and watch your 6.

  • Sorry bro, while it's very true that pvp centric players who want to mostly only play vs or steal things from other players are very very spoiled there will be no reality check.

    Anything approaching balanced risk and reward for pvevp would violate the game's prime directive. Pvp will always front very little if any of the risk that the ships they attack front. Anything else would the impede the ease of making "content".

  • Speed scrolls to the bottom so I can ignore this thread...

  • All outposts need to be made a (NO PvP) zone- As the game was intended. It says it right on the wall at the Tavern when you first log in the Pirates Code follows and I quote: Article#3 "Disputes are settled upon the waves". Another quote: Article #6 "Respect new pirates and their voyages ahead". First this will delay some what a lot of grievers to attack you when you leave port. second this would make hanging around islands showing off emotes and shanty's after you sell a lot more fun and far less stressful.

    Since players either cannot read or are complete grieving joy kills. All they would need to do is make this a (no PvP) zone.

  • @candyn00dles808 said in Pvp should mean KOS in outposts:

    Since players cannot read

    https://www.seaofthieves.com/community/forums/topic/136693/pvpve-the-team-s-thoughts/1

  • Ahoy!

    The article in the Pirate Code that references 'Disputes are settled upon the waves' is in reference to us not allowing, advocating, or supporting witch-hunting of players or any harassment on other platforms. What happens on the seas is to be settled on the seas (unless, of course, it's an action worthy of reporting).

    Outposts are not designed to be safe havens and the element of PvP is intended to be forever present.

    "Respect new pirates and their voyages ahead" is to encourage players to interact, to teach new pirates and give them reason to come back to the game as the seas are better with more people on them. We encourage all pirates to remember that they were also new once and to allow new players to explore the game we all love. On top of this, you will rarely get a fair or satisfying fight however, sometimes you have no idea that the other ship is new. This can include not boarding to check or not having in game comms switched on.

    We have given our thoughts on the topic of PvPvE and discussed it in an official Podcast here.

    Sea of Thieves will always be a shared-world adventure game, with elements of both PvP and PvE but Joe did speak about Custom Servers about a year ago. These servers will not offer Gold or progression IF they become available to the public. Private Servers are still being tested with our Partners.

    For us to make some of the changes asked here would require something to change at the core of the game, the very heart of Sea of Thieves and what makes it so special.

    Will allow this to keep going for now but keep it on topic and civil.

  • @candyn00dles808 sagte in Pvp should mean KOS in outposts:

    ... Pirates Code follows and I quote: Article#3 "Disputes are settled upon the waves"...

    This is Rare telling us in rolleplay manner that we should only fight ingame and shouldn't bring those outside of it like through X-Box, Discord and such.
    This was never intended to say there should be a safezone!

    Edit: Meh, Meroviel was faster

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