Add Value to Tall Tale Items (A Specific Idea for How it Would Work)

  • So the general flow of the world of Sea of Thieves is that there are always people out gathering loot, and then there are people out to take the loot that others are gathering. I think most players fall somewhere in the middle of wearing both of these hats, though.

    While Tall Tales are one of my favorite things added to the game to date, I think that there's a side effect from them that interrupts the "flow" of the Sea of Thieves world that I mentioned earlier on.

    When you sink a ship that was doing nothing but Tall Tales, both parties lose really. The items you've won from the battle have no value and the player who owned them starts their tale over.


    I propose that there be a (small) value added to Tall Tale items. Here's how I think it should work.

    • Tall Tale relics, keys, etc, would have a value of 5 to 10 doubloons and can only be sold at the Reaper Hideout.
    • Why 5 to 10 doubloons? This doubloon value is low enough so as not to overly incentivize hunting players who are doing Tall Tales, but also ensures that the rightful victor of a ship battle has gained something from sinking the other ship that may exclusively be doing Tall Tales.

    • Why the Reaper Hideout? The player who has lost their items has an expectation of where they may find them should they want to try and reclaim them... I think this is a fair balance, since Tall Tale items are essential to completing and enjoying the narrative

    EDIT: (Courtesy of @Little-Squash and @Galactic-Geek) Tall Tale items that are stolen become visible on the map - stealing them causes them to be cursed with the Reaper's Mark, and the original crew has even more opportunity to recover these items.

    • Per Mike Chapman, players may eventually have "limited protections" for their Tall Tale items
    • If this is added, it should come with a value assigned to the Tall Tale items. This would be a good way for these features to balance eachother out

    In summary, all players who interact with Tall Tales have experienced frustrations both with losing items, and frustrations with not being able to do anything with these items if they happen to steal them - I think this is a sign that Tall Tales, while they are fun, are struggling to be a part of the Shared World.

    Giving these items proper value to the ones who steal them, and LIMITED protections and opportunities for players to reclaim their stolen relics will ultimately make Tall Tales fit more nicely in the Sea of Thieves shared world.

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  • This is a terrible idea IMO. If anything the Tall tales need to be protected more from player interference. Tall Tales are a chance for SoT to show what it can do as a game and actually provide an experience itself rather than just rely on other players to do all the work.

  • @betsill said in Add Value to Tall Tale Items (A Specific Idea for How it Would Work):

    This is a terrible idea IMO. If anything the Tall tales need to be protected more from player interference. Tall Tales are a chance for SoT to show what it can do as a game and actually provide an experience itself rather than just rely on other players to do all the work.

    Disagreed.

    Under no circumstances should games protect the player from failure, that would defeat the entire purpose of games, in general... You might not be aware of this, but you are asking for an interactive movie, not a game... Winning and losing is literally the key component of games.

    I say the TT items should get a value.

    Your subjective ideas of who did the work and who deserves to benefit from said work are not relevant, this is a pirate game, piracy is the entire point.

  • @betsill said in Add Value to Tall Tale Items (A Specific Idea for How it Would Work):

    This is a terrible idea IMO. If anything the Tall tales need to be protected more from player interference. Tall Tales are a chance for SoT to show what it can do as a game and actually provide an experience itself rather than just rely on other players to do all the work.

    Well Sea of Thieves, at its core, is always going to be an unpredictable shared world multiplayer game. It’s not unreasonable to expect for everything they add to the game to enhance that shared world in some way.

    Tall Tales are amazing, but the unfortunate flaw is that they do not fit with the shared world very well. A battle where a ship working on Tall Tales gets sunk does not provide anything to either side of the battle.

    And I can assure you that simply refusing to give value to Tall Tale items is not going to somehow deter players from attacking Tall Tale ships. Might as well add some sort of value to it right?

    In my post, I addressed concerns against adding too much incentive to steal these items and also providing some degree of recourse for Pirates who lose their items.

  • @chronodusk
    Another twist could be that if you pick up a Tall Tale item that isn't yours, then your ship is marked on the map (like with the Reaper's Flag) until that Tall Tale item is no longer on the server (despawned or sold at the Reaper's Hideout).

  • I like the value and location for the idea, but what's to stop pirates from starting a TT, and then turning in their TT items themselves for free dubloons? The OP didn't really say anything in regard to this, so to answer thatquestion, I suggest that in addition to the idea, only those who steal the items can benefit from the dubloons.

    I would also like to suggest that a curse be bestowed upon the relic that works similarly to the Reaper's Mark once stolen, but where only the crew doing the TT can see the relic's location on the map table. That way, they can still track it in an attempt to retrieve it.

  • @galactic-geek said in Add Value to Tall Tale Items (A Specific Idea for How it Would Work):

    I would also like to suggest that a curse be bestowed upon the relic that works similarly to the Reaper's Mark once stolen, but where only the crew doing the TT can see the relic's location on the map table. That way, they can still track it in an attempt to retrieve it.

    This works really well on multiple levels. It adds a Sea of Thieves style explanation as to why these items are visible on the map, while also explaining why they would have value at the Reaper hideout.

    On top of just giving the original crew a good opportunity to reclaim their items.

    Good idea!

  • All I see in adding "value" to Tall Tale items is that it gives justification and an excuse for people that do steal said items, or a way to alleviate some guilt over having done so (that is if they had any to begin with, which I doubt). It does nothing to help those who are doing these as the time invested is still lost, and don't give me that line that they would feel better if it was stolen because there is now some value to it - we all know that is a bunch of bull. All adding value to them does is give justification for stealing them and would increase the tendency of it occurring.

    I am in the court of leaving them as they are - no value (as to not incentivize looting of said items) and no special protections either - people need to take more care when doing Tall Tales and plan accordingly.

  • @dlchief58 said in Add Value to Tall Tale Items (A Specific Idea for How it Would Work):

    All I see in adding "value" to Tall Tale items is that it gives justification and an excuse for people that do steal said items, or a way to alleviate some guilt over having done so (that is if they had any to begin with, which I doubt).

    Well, people are going to sink ships doing Tall Tales regardless of a value on the items or not. There's no easy way to tell if they don't have other loot on board without sinking them.

    Adding value at least allows someone to "win" in these encounters. Not adding value means both parties have earned nothing.

    It does nothing to help those who are doing these as the time invested is still lost, and don't give me that line that they would feel better if it was stolen because there is now some value to it - we all know that is a bunch of bull. All adding value to them does is give justification for stealing them and would increase the tendency of it occurring.

    I wasn't going to say that. I have already made suggestions in my original post to balance out this concern.

    What I was going to say as that a potential update to add value to these items would also be paired with limited protections for Tall Tale items and also since they can only be sold at the Reaper Hideout, the original crew has an idea of where to recover them - something that was never available to a Tall Tale crew before. (this was in my OP)

    @Little-Squash and @Galactic-Geek expanded on this by suggesting the items be marked on the map when stolen, allowing the original crew even more opportunity for recourse if their relics are stolen.

    You could even go on further to suggest that the masked stranger would resell the stolen items to the original crew for a doubloon cost if the items were sold to here, however that might be too forgiving.

    I am in the court of leaving them as they are - no value (as to not incentivize looting of said items) and no special protections either - people need to take more care when doing Tall Tales and plan accordingly.

    I respect your opinion, but I and many others agree that the way they are now does not fit well with the Shared World. There is frustration from offensive crews when they realize they just sunk a ship with worthless items on board, and frustration from the losing crew when they lose items and can't do anything about it.

    My suggestion, if implemented in full, provides reasonable improvements to both sides of the coin, and allows Tall Tales to thrive in the Shared World in a much better way.

  • @sweltering-nick said in Add Value to Tall Tale Items (A Specific Idea for How it Would Work):

    @betsill said in Add Value to Tall Tale Items (A Specific Idea for How it Would Work):

    This is a terrible idea IMO. If anything the Tall tales need to be protected more from player interference. Tall Tales are a chance for SoT to show what it can do as a game and actually provide an experience itself rather than just rely on other players to do all the work.

    Disagreed.

    Under no circumstances should games protect the player from failure, that would defeat the entire purpose of games, in general... You might not be aware of this, but you are asking for an interactive movie, not a game... Winning and losing is literally the key component of games.

    I say the TT items should get a value.

    Your subjective ideas of who did the work and who deserves to benefit from said work are not relevant, this is a pirate game, piracy is the entire point.

    Reading comprehension? That's not what I said at all.

  • @chronodusk said in Add Value to Tall Tale Items (A Specific Idea for How it Would Work):

    @betsill said in Add Value to Tall Tale Items (A Specific Idea for How it Would Work):

    This is a terrible idea IMO. If anything the Tall tales need to be protected more from player interference. Tall Tales are a chance for SoT to show what it can do as a game and actually provide an experience itself rather than just rely on other players to do all the work.

    Well Sea of Thieves, at its core, is always going to be an unpredictable shared world multiplayer game. It’s not unreasonable to expect for everything they add to the game to enhance that shared world in some way.

    Depends if you by "benefit" you mean put inside "adventure mode" or it's connected to. Expecting everything to be added into adventure mode is obviously unreasonable at this point. I wold agree that it should be connected in some way though.

    Tall Tales are amazing, but the unfortunate flaw is that they do not fit with the shared world very well. A battle where a ship working on Tall Tales gets sunk does not provide anything to either side of the battle.

    Idk what you mean by "provide....battle." but I definitely agree that Tall Tales don't fit very well with the shared world and i've said as much since they were announced in the insider build. That's why I say that they should be protected or separated from the shared world(such as loading a separate instance for heavily interactive and story sections) so that they can really be fleshed out.

    And I can assure you that simply refusing to give value to Tall Tale items is not going to somehow deter players from attacking Tall Tale ships. Might as well add some sort of value to it right?

    No lol. Imo people messing up other peoples tall tales is a problem. Giving players incentive to cause problems makes the problem worse not better obviously?

  • @chronodusk said in Add Value to Tall Tale Items (A Specific Idea for How it Would Work):

    @dlchief58 said in Add Value to Tall Tale Items (A Specific Idea for How it Would Work):

    All I see in adding "value" to Tall Tale items is that it gives justification and an excuse for people that do steal said items, or a way to alleviate some guilt over having done so (that is if they had any to begin with, which I doubt).

    Well, people are going to sink ships doing Tall Tales regardless of a value on the items or not. There's no easy way to tell if they don't have other loot on board without sinking them.

    Adding value at least allows someone to "win" in these encounters. Not adding value means both parties have earned nothing.

    It does nothing to help those who are doing these as the time invested is still lost, and don't give me that line that they would feel better if it was stolen because there is now some value to it - we all know that is a bunch of bull. All adding value to them does is give justification for stealing them and would increase the tendency of it occurring.

    I wasn't going to say that. I have already made suggestions in my original post to balance out this concern.

    What I was going to say as that a potential update to add value to these items would also be paired with limited protections for Tall Tale items and also since they can only be sold at the Reaper Hideout, the original crew has an idea of where to recover them - something that was never available to a Tall Tale crew before. (this was in my OP)

    @Little-Squash and @Galactic-Geek expanded on this by suggesting the items be marked on the map when stolen, allowing the original crew even more opportunity for recourse if their relics are stolen.

    You could even go on further to suggest that the masked stranger would resell the stolen items to the original crew for a doubloon cost if the items were sold to here, however that might be too forgiving.

    I am in the court of leaving them as they are - no value (as to not incentivize looting of said items) and no special protections either - people need to take more care when doing Tall Tales and plan accordingly.

    I respect your opinion, but I and many others agree that the way they are now does not fit well with the Shared World. There is frustration from offensive crews when they realize they just sunk a ship with worthless items on board, and frustration from the losing crew when they lose items and can't do anything about it.

    My suggestion, if implemented in full, provides reasonable improvements to both sides of the coin, and allows Tall Tales to thrive in the Shared World in a much better way.

    While your suggestions are not the worst I've seen on the subject, I respectfully disagree with it. I am wholeheartedly against assigning ANY value to Tall Tale items as all it does is incentivize looting of them and give justification to stealing them. So what if someone sinks a ship to only find there are no items of value to them, there does not always be a "win" as you put it for sinking another ship. A big fat goose egg can be good for those who decide to sink on sight as a general practice, I see no reason to reward such behavior by giving them more possible items of value (regardless of how small it may be). Perhaps be more selective, stealthy or use the social aspects of the game before opening fire on unsuspecting ships to see if it is worth your while.

    I also do not think we need to coddle those doing Tall Tales, sometimes you lose and have to deal with it. They just need to plan better (as in taking any items with them ashore and hiding them on the island - one of the things I do) or have a designated lookout. It is all part of the game and does fit well in the Shared World concept.

  • @betsill said in Add Value to Tall Tale Items (A Specific Idea for How it Would Work):

    @chronodusk said in Add Value to Tall Tale Items (A Specific Idea for How it Would Work):

    @betsill said in Add Value to Tall Tale Items (A Specific Idea for How it Would Work):

    Idk what you mean by "provide....battle." but I definitely agree that Tall Tales don't fit very well with the shared world and i've said as much since they were announced in the insider build. That's why I say that they should be protected or separated from the shared world(such as loading a separate instance for heavily interactive and story sections) so that they can really be fleshed out.

    What I mean is that if Tall Tales are to exist in the shared world, then they should be fitting with the current flow of the Shared World - sinking a ship full of items that have no value is out of place. Which is why I believe that the value should be added (along with expanding the defending crew's ability to recover the items)

    No lol. Imo people messing up other peoples tall tales is a problem. Giving players incentive to cause problems makes the problem worse not better obviously?

    I don't see it as a "problem", given that being "successful" while doing anything in Sea of Thieves requires that you stay on your toes and be aware of incoming ships.

    The proposed value is not really enough to be an incentive of any kind - I know I'm not going to go out of my way for 5 doubloons! But I also know I would be less disappointed if I sink a ship that happens to be doing Tall Tales and I get a little 5 doubloon reward from it.

    But that of course does come with the added risk of retaliation from the original crew! Because as I mentioned, the stolen items could be visible on the map - this would be an added advantage that Tall Taler's do not currently have.

    I am personally against making a separate Tall Tale mode that exists outside of Adventure, as you appear to suggest. Simply because I do not believe it fits with what Sea of Thieves is - but that in and of itself is a bunny trail I won't go too far down since this thread isn't really about that specifically.

  • @dlchief58

    I think if I understand correctly, you suggest that my proposed changes aren't necessarily harmful but moreso unnecessary, and in reading your response I do understand what you're saying.

    I respect the opinion, but will have to agree to disagree.

  • Its a shame its not, steal a crews TT items and you pick up where they left off.
    If you steal a Totem Key or Star Jewel, their Tall Tale Book is copied onto your voyage table, you may vote for this and carry on the Tale at the risk of the previous crew coming back for you.

    I suppose the quest giver could buy them back from you but I don't agree with it being overpriced. You went to sink a ship, if they only had the quest items on board, maybe you should just come by later when they're on the way to the outpost.

  • @chronodusk said in Add Value to Tall Tale Items (A Specific Idea for How it Would Work):

    @dlchief58

    I think if I understand correctly, you suggest that my proposed changes aren't necessarily harmful but moreso unnecessary, and in reading your response I do understand what you're saying.

    I respect the opinion, but will have to agree to disagree.

    I do think it is harmful to add value of any kind to them. It gives people a reason/justification to steal said items whereas now you will have those who on finding the ship they sunk was doing a Tall Tale will return those items - that would be less likely to happen if there was a value to them. And if they take them anyway, well it just lets you know that crew were jerks (or possibly clueless/new, not realizing they had no value) and need to be avoided or dealt with. But overall it is unnecessary as you said.

    As I said, not every encounter needs a winner or prize.

    I will give you that it is one of the more well thought out proposals and has a bit of balance, I just can't agree with it for the reasons I listed.

  • @chronodusk said in [Add Value to Tall Tale Items (A Specific

    What I mean is that if Tall Tales are to exist in the shared world, then they should be fitting with the current flow of the Shared World - sinking a ship full of items that have no value is out of place. Which is why I believe that the value should be added (along with expanding the defending crew's ability to recover the items)

    I understand your point. I just think that Tall Tales have been forced into the shared world to their detriment. The entire idea of Tall tales which is a curated and immersive experience that is provided by the game itself. That is compromised by the shared world it exists in. Encouraging players to involve themselves in other players Tall Tales is completely counter to the point of Tall Tales which is that it's supposed to provide a reliable and quality designed experience; in contrast with the RNG based voyages that give virtually no enjoyment without player intervention.

    I don't see it as a "problem", given that being "successful" while doing anything in Sea of Thieves requires that you stay on your toes and be aware of incoming ships.

    For normal missions yes. Tall Tales are a chance for the game to provide inherent enjoyment and challenge. Not depend on the incredibly unreliable and unbalanced interaction of other players.

    I am personally against making a separate Tall Tale mode that exists outside of Adventure, as you appear to suggest. Simply because I do not believe it fits with what Sea of Thieves is - but that in and of itself is a bunny trail I won't go too far down since this thread isn't really about that specifically.

    It 100% does though. As the "maiden voyage" mission shows.

  • @betsill said in Add Value to Tall Tale Items (A Specific Idea for How it Would Work):

    @sweltering-nick said in Add Value to Tall Tale Items (A Specific Idea for How it Would Work):

    @betsill said in Add Value to Tall Tale Items (A Specific Idea for How it Would Work):

    This is a terrible idea IMO. If anything the Tall tales need to be protected more from player interference. Tall Tales are a chance for SoT to show what it can do as a game and actually provide an experience itself rather than just rely on other players to do all the work.

    Disagreed.

    Under no circumstances should games protect the player from failure, that would defeat the entire purpose of games, in general... You might not be aware of this, but you are asking for an interactive movie, not a game... Winning and losing is literally the key component of games.

    I say the TT items should get a value.

    Your subjective ideas of who did the work and who deserves to benefit from said work are not relevant, this is a pirate game, piracy is the entire point.

    Reading comprehension? That's not what I at all.

    That is exactly what you said though... Everyone can see that. o_.

    And your replies to other people in this thread, perfectly reflect that too.

    Idk what you mean by "provide....battle." but I definitely agree that Tall Tales don't fit very well with the shared world and i've said as much since they were announced in the insider build. That's why I say that they should be protected or separated from the shared world(such as loading a separate instance for heavily interactive and story sections) so that they can really be fleshed out.

    Right here... You said again it right here... Like... Who you trying to fool?

    This is a shared world game...

    You want to, not just remove the shared world aspect... you also want to remove the game aspect. And you are somehow, blissfully unaware of these facts about yourself... Blissfully unaware that these are the things you are asking for. :P

    How is that possible?! xD

    No lol. Imo people messing up other peoples tall tales is a problem. Giving players incentive to cause problems makes the problem worse not better obviously?

    Third time's the charm... Looks like my reading comprehension, is spot on, dude... xD

    I just think that Tall Tales have been forced into the shared world to their detriment. The entire idea of Tall tales which is a curated and immersive experience that is provided by the game itself. That is compromised by the shared world it exists in.

    Wrong... The TT are designed to be a part of the shared world, it was made FOR adventure mode, it was not designed to be separate from adventure mode.

    That is misconception on your part, bro... Part of the immersion of adventure mode, and by extension, Tall Tales, is the threat of pirates and other things in the sea... Because this is the sea of thieves.

    This includes PvP just as much as it includes PvE... Not one or the other, BOTH.

    Encouraging players to involve themselves in other players Tall Tales is completely counter to the point of Tall Tales which is that it's supposed to provide a reliable and quality designed experience; in contrast with the RNG based voyages that give virtually no enjoyment without player intervention.

    What makes you think player involvement are somehow excluded from the TT's? Your entire argument is based on your subjective opinion which is then based on a logical fallacy(Emotional bias, basically)... At no point in time has Rare said that PvP was never meant to occur during a TT, in fact, the devs themselves have said they've been thinking about adding a value to the TT items to encourage MORE PvP.

    This means PvP, was most definitely intended to be a part of the TT experience... If it wasn't, they never would've added it to adventure mode to begin with... Like... How did you end up with the misconception that PvP wasn't intended for it? There's literally no evidence even remotely suggesting that, and tons of evidence suggesting the opposite...

    I literally don't understand how you came to this conclusion out of thin air... o_.

    Tall Tales are a chance for the game to provide inherent enjoyment and challenge.

    Except you want to remove the challenge of PvP, based on... emotional bias, i guess. : /

    Not depend on the incredibly unreliable and unbalanced interaction of other players.

    In what context does this make sense in any way, shape or form? ._.
    Everyone has access to all the same tools as their disposal, the only difference between players is experience and skill, and everyone had to start at the beginning...

    It's arguably one of the most balanced games in the gaming industry... Sure not all players communicate with you, but you are free to treat every ship you see as hostile if that's your style.

    Therefore, you're not making any sense.

    It 100% does though. As the "maiden voyage" mission shows.

    Oh my god... Okay, allow me to burst your bubble, bro.

    The maiden voyage is a perfect demonstration that the Tall Tales can indeed be instanced, separate from the Adventure mode...

    So ask yourself, why they aren't... Maiden Voyage is a tutorial, and that is the only reason it's an exception to the shared open world rule.

    Because you are wrong about Rare's intentions for the Tall Tales... And so your argument of "They should be instanced" IS NOT RELEVANT... What YOU want them to be, is not relevant... Your time is better spent looking at how well the TT's achieve Rare's vision for it, and then suggest improvements.

    Rare intended for TT's to be an immersive story mode, Rare also intended for PvP to be a factor while doing TT's, that is why the TT's are part of adventure mode... You want more immersion? I'm on board with that, let's cook up some suggestions to increase immersion.

    You want a PvP-free TT experience? You've got the wrong game, go play a game that has what you want.

    This is a PvEvP game, get with the program.

  • @sweltering-nick ok

  • I agree, there should be value to the TT loot since it will be stolen anyway if you get attacked. I attacked someone earlier at crooks hollow hiding their shroud breaker and then stealing their boat as they looked for it. I went to the nearby sea post and sold their gems and that's it. I went back to crooks and saw they found the shroud breaker, but they still left the game anyway. I wish I could've sold the darn thing.

    If TT quests become protected then you're playing a single player or multiplayer coop game; and SoT isn't that.

  • Players who do Tall Tales are weak easy targets. Why should such "challenge" give loot? Not to mention that people usually pick up some random stuff like gems or skeleton captains along the way so there still might be something worthy for the "effort".

    Showing TT items on the map might sound good at first, but that would just be additional griefing tool. Players who start TTs are unlikely to want to pvp and neither they are likely to be good enough to get them back even if they wanted.

    I'd give you a commendation. Pick up the Tall Tale item, it disappears and you get +1 out of 500 for the Pirate Samaritan title as it would respawn the item back on board the ship of crew you stole it from.

  • @chronodusk I've always supported the idea of TT itema having value. I think the reapers hideout is the wrong location. What if you had to sell it to the proper NPC? Would make some tricky for the crew that did the stealing and also give the OG crew the exact knowledge of where that item is headed.

    This would also eliminate the ability for a crew to make doubloons on their own quest.

  • @chronodusk
    As someone who loves TallTales, one thing I didn't like was that if you got sunk with only TallTale items, neither party gets any benefit since they don't reward anyone.

    This idea, if it were added to the game, would really bring the adventure feel to it, especially for the Shores of Gold volume as it'll give you the impression that you aren't the only ones seeking the island, and there are others trying to find it as well (Like a classic Goonies/Indiana Jones adventure!)

    One thing that concerns me about your idea is that if the items were to cost doubloons, wouldn't the players that started the TallTale in the first place just get the items, sell it, than restart the Tale again to continuously farm doubloons.
    How do we make it so that the players who started the TallTale don't just hand in the key items to MS after getting them?

  • i never understood why they dont have value

  • TT items having 0 value is fine by me.
    In fact they should add a Tall Tale Flag that can only be hoisted if you are on a Tall Tale and have no saleable loot.

  • @bugaboo-bill to discourage people from messing with your Tall Tale

  • @chronodusk

    I always thought that Tall Tales items should have a value that was really high, for the sake of lore/logic. An example would be each part of the Shroudbreaker, it is a unique item, something magical, mysterious and difficult to get, a low value on such an item would be at least strange. It would be as if Jack Sparrow got the chalices for the fountain of youth and sold each for 1 gold coin.

    Another point I would like to know if it fits your idea: If I start a Tall Tale, could I sell the item? My proposal is that Tall Tale items cannot be sold by the crew who are making it, but that they can when Tall Tale ends. This would avoid people who make doubloons in this way.

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