My friends don't want to play anymore (griefing)

I'm still fine with never having PVE servers and just an option to swap a server after I have been messed with excessively, without having to exit the game in full.

But now you all have me really curious with how you are all talking about PVE servers, how this game would die, etc. So I want to know what is rattling in your skulls. In exchange, here is what is rattling in my skull:

When we're talking about PVE servers here, are we talking about how they exist now, of players hijacking whole servers to do alliance rushes and get their gold and rep up fast? I don't personally agree with that, even though I have considered it -- but I would rather get my rep the "intended" way, on a PVPVE server.

I think, if PVE servers became an option, I would want them to be set up very precisely. Damage from players/player ships cannot harm any boat or player. Gunpowder barrels and gunpowder skellies would really have to be looked at through a careful lens for this. But other than those, I don't see how griefing would be possible (outside the griefing you get when you open crew). On PVE only servers as well, I would expect a game to slow down progression, or take away certain things one might get rewarded for in PVPVE (obviously, no allowing Reaper's Run on PVE servers, and maybe take away the bonuses from alliances on PVE servers because... why?). I definitely would not want to see them as the Alliance servers that currently constitute what we "have" for PVE.

I guess one of my last thoughts on all of this PVP talk in general is, the fact that Sea of Thieves is, afaik, the ONLY pirate/1700s-ish ship-based multiplayer game that exists that even has a PVE feature. There are quite a few PVP ship/crew battle games on Steam, though. I like SoT more than the other games because it contains PVE. That makes it less of a novelty, to me at least.

@watcheyewendigo
I have to say it again.....PVE Servers are not possible!
How can you stop someone from stealing your loot if no damage can be done?
PVE Servers=Griefer Servers

@katttruewalker Sounds fun, and I am sorry I missed it, even with the griefing. I know griefing exists in a lot of games.

So since we've clarified PVE is absolutely out of the question, can we go back to maybe easier ways to monitor and report truly problematic behavior (for instance, how do I show what people have typed to me in game chat? Is there a way to scroll that back?) and an in-game way to change server, with limitations (can't do it unless you've been recently sunk, etc)?

@katttruewalker Yes, I recently turned that back on and started familiarizing myself with it.

The downside is it seems to be really unstable on Win 10 Pro, for both one of my friends and myself. Most of our other friends have the more basic version of Win 10 and have some issues of it, but my friend and I with 10 Pro have had issues overall with everything from voice problems, to frequent crashes, to bluescreens, when we have Gamebar on. If we turn it off, our games and PCs are perfectly stable and play the game without issues. Having in-game options that aren't reliant on that system for PC would be amazing.

@katttruewalker

In your post talking about PvE games or servers you made it sound like they just end up exploited. Making it sound like bad places to be. Players exploiting and creating negative experiences for others is not exclusive to just PvE focused or based games. It can happen in any game. Sea of Thieves as it is has been exploited in negative ways by its players. PvP only or focused games suffer the worse from exploitation, hacking, and cheating.

@ruigtand-nl

Thanks mate! Would not be possible without my loyal crew mates. We all prove that together we can be true pirates and still make the sea a great place and experience for everyone.

@arecbalrin Again, to clarify, stop defining me as anti PvP. While I don't usually sail out of my way looking for combat, I most certainly do not shy away from it. I prefer the game to organically come to me. If someone approaches my ship, I decide on the fly. Am I outmatched and therefore should flee, or can I take them. I know my own limitations in game. And I know that if I am solo sailing, I am not capable of taking on a 3 party brig or 4 party galleon. Heck, I would struggle against a two party sloop.

But, if the odds are even, or I feel like I have at least a sliver of a chance, then believe me, I jump in with both feet and go at it.

As for all of your comments about me. You make way too many assumptions and accusations. And you surely misunderstand what I am saying. PvP is simple. Player vs Player. If we are competing, then it is player vs player. Now maybe I don't know your intentions at first, but they quickly become apparent. If player one decides they want nothing to do with player two and they flee, but player one continues to pursue them, then that is PvP. They are competing. Player one is competing to try and win a race to get away while player two is trying to win the same race only in an effort to catch player one. Player vs Player.

Your arguments are completely biased on the basis that PvP is only present if there is combat. And that is most definitely not true. PvP is simply Player vs Player, rather than Player vs PC or AI.

I don't think we'll ever answer whether there was an initially larger player pool, cannibalized by PvP voracity, or whether PvP had always been the main draw.

Or maybe the form of PvP imagined by the user base, didn't pan out as the actual implementation.

My perception is SoT was rolled-out with "PvP for the masses" and introduced with an appeal there's a role in battle for everyone, which drew a lot of initial interest and curiosity.

But then a cadre of hyper-violent death hooligans got control of the pool table in the back of the restaurant, and developed a reputation for punching out non-regulars who dared to tote their pints to the back room. Now the proprietors are wondering why receipts are down, which doesn't make sense as they'd been working real hard with the kitchen on rolling out a lot of tasty new dishes.

Is the player base that remains the 'etched survivors'? The hardcore that can thrive regardless how lean the player base might get? It is clear a population of PvP centrists survived the culling. And in the Darwinian sense, PvE enthusiasts amid such a predatory population seem particularly hardy specimens.

"PvP for the masses" still holds some intriguing possibilities, just dont think it was implemented in a way that realized full potential player volume.

@NoFears-Fun is one of my best mates. He is a highly skilled sailor and pirate. In no way is he anti-PvP. He is very competent at being a terror on the sea when it comes to ship and player encounters. He, like most of us, are anti this is a PvP first and foremost game, that you cannot live on the sea by a code, that the sea cannot be a place for both pirates and friends. The sea has no place for the kill for no reason mentality. Toxicity, trolling, and griefing will always end up at the bottom of the sea at the end of our cannons and swords.

@bhastrhad said in My friends don't want to play anymore (griefing):

@watcheyewendigo
I have to say it again.....PVE Servers are not possible!
How can you stop someone from stealing your loot if no damage can be done?
PVE Servers=Griefer Servers

Here's a sketch of a PvE server:

All cannon/melee damage is off between any pirate.

All treasure is up for grabs, first come first serve.

if you want to allow a non-violent form of PvP-lite, you still permit boarding where using stealth to run away with treasure is permitted.

if you want to fully disallow PvP non-violent thievery then turn off ability to board, or to pick up treasure on another player's ship.

Gunpowder kegs are the biggest conundrum. You cant really turn those off for anyone and retain their core behavior. but a kegging would remain a viable way to sink another in a non PvP construct, so perhaps kegs also prevented from dealing intra-pirate/ship damage.

That's it though, turning off intra-pirate cannon/keg/melee damage is all you need for a PvE server.

@khompewtur said in My friends don't want to play anymore (griefing):

@bhastrhad said in My friends don't want to play anymore (griefing):

@watcheyewendigo
I have to say it again.....PVE Servers are not possible!
How can you stop someone from stealing your loot if no damage can be done?
PVE Servers=Griefer Servers

Here's a sketch of a PvE server:

All cannon/melee damage is off between any pirate.

All treasure is up for grabs, first come first serve.

if you want to allow a non-violent form of PvP-lite, you still permit boarding where using stealth to run away with treasure is permitted.

if you want to fully disallow PvP non-violent thievery then turn off ability to board, or to pick up treasure on another player's ship.

Gunpowder kegs are the biggest conundrum. You cant really turn those off for anyone and retain their core behavior. but a kegging would remain a viable way to sink another in a non PvP construct, so perhaps kegs also prevented from dealing intra-pirate/ship damage.

That's it though, turning off intra-pirate cannon/keg/melee damage is all you need for a PvE server.

LOL, how uninteresting and bland, not to mention a complete waste of resources for Rare and Microsoft. A better solution (though I am still pretty much against it, but would welcome it over such "kiddie" servers like you outline) would be to enable private servers which then would cater to both ends of the spectrum and take much less resources/time to set up. But at the same time I feel progression should be turned off or limited if they did enable private servers to keep some integrity in the progression system. If your idea was ever implemented (but it won't be if Rare is smart, and I am sure they are), then it definitely needs ALL progression turned off - you want to get to Pirate Legend, play the REAL game.

@dlchief58 said in My friends don't want to play anymore (griefing):

@khompewtur said in My friends don't want to play anymore (griefing):

@bhastrhad said in My friends don't want to play anymore (griefing):

@watcheyewendigo
I have to say it again.....PVE Servers are not possible!
How can you stop someone from stealing your loot if no damage can be done?
PVE Servers=Griefer Servers

Here's a sketch of a PvE server:

All cannon/melee damage is off between any pirate.

All treasure is up for grabs, first come first serve.

if you want to allow a non-violent form of PvP-lite, you still permit boarding where using stealth to run away with treasure is permitted.

if you want to fully disallow PvP non-violent thievery then turn off ability to board, or to pick up treasure on another player's ship.

Gunpowder kegs are the biggest conundrum. You cant really turn those off for anyone and retain their core behavior. but a kegging would remain a viable way to sink another in a non PvP construct, so perhaps kegs also prevented from dealing intra-pirate/ship damage.

That's it though, turning off intra-pirate cannon/keg/melee damage is all you need for a PvE server.

LOL, how uninteresting and bland, not to mention a complete waste of resources for Rare and Microsoft. A better solution (though I am still pretty much against it, but would welcome it over such "kiddie" servers like you outline) would be to enable private servers which then would cater to both ends of the spectrum and take much less resources/time to set up. But at the same time I feel progression should be turned off or limited if they did enable private servers to keep some integrity in the progression system. If your idea was ever implemented (but it won't be if Rare is smart, and I am sure they are), then it definitely needs ALL progression turned off - you want to get to Pirate Legend, play the REAL game.

I'm not against incentivizing a "higher-risk, higher-reward" for entering more dangerous gaming zones.

But I challenge that satisfying two different strata of appetites would be an overly difficult technical thing.

The mechanics for turning off damage already exist in the game (ghost skellies cannot be harmed by anything until hit with a lantern, crew cannot harm each other with cannon/melee)

If the PvE option doesn't appeal to you, then play the PvP version. By why not allow those with a different appetite to choose? Take Fortnite for example, 'Battle Royale' is just one of possible game modes. Why not kiddie servers? My kid quit the game just because of lack of attempt to cater to his market.

@khompewtur said in My friends don't want to play anymore (griefing):

@dlchief58 said in My friends don't want to play anymore (griefing):

@khompewtur said in My friends don't want to play anymore (griefing):

@bhastrhad said in My friends don't want to play anymore (griefing):

@watcheyewendigo
I have to say it again.....PVE Servers are not possible!
How can you stop someone from stealing your loot if no damage can be done?
PVE Servers=Griefer Servers

Here's a sketch of a PvE server:

All cannon/melee damage is off between any pirate.

All treasure is up for grabs, first come first serve.

if you want to allow a non-violent form of PvP-lite, you still permit boarding where using stealth to run away with treasure is permitted.

if you want to fully disallow PvP non-violent thievery then turn off ability to board, or to pick up treasure on another player's ship.

Gunpowder kegs are the biggest conundrum. You cant really turn those off for anyone and retain their core behavior. but a kegging would remain a viable way to sink another in a non PvP construct, so perhaps kegs also prevented from dealing intra-pirate/ship damage.

That's it though, turning off intra-pirate cannon/keg/melee damage is all you need for a PvE server.

LOL, how uninteresting and bland, not to mention a complete waste of resources for Rare and Microsoft. A better solution (though I am still pretty much against it, but would welcome it over such "kiddie" servers like you outline) would be to enable private servers which then would cater to both ends of the spectrum and take much less resources/time to set up. But at the same time I feel progression should be turned off or limited if they did enable private servers to keep some integrity in the progression system. If your idea was ever implemented (but it won't be if Rare is smart, and I am sure they are), then it definitely needs ALL progression turned off - you want to get to Pirate Legend, play the REAL game.

I'm not against incentivizing a "higher-risk, higher-reward" for entering more dangerous gaming zones.

But I challenge that satisfying two different strata of appetites would be an overly difficult technical thing.

The mechanics for turning off damage already exist in the game (ghost skellies cannot be harmed by anything until hit with a lantern, ccrew cannot harm each other with cannon/melee)

If the PvE option doesn't appeal to you, then play the PvP version. By why not allow those with a different appetite to choose? Take Fortnite for example, 'Battle Royale' is just one of possible game modes.

And as I said, private servers would be the more effective way to accomplish this - your suggestion completely neuters the game and a complete waste of time and resources. Not to mention it would only lead to a completely different style of griefing and crying.

I'd even go a step further and say that any private servers need to be rented as they are in Battlefield games. You want peace and calm or have an all out Battle Royale server, then pay for that privilege. This would also add an additional revenue stream for the game as well as give options to both ends of the player spectrum (FYI, I am in the middle where I embrace BOTH sides of the game as the developers intended). The game is not binary as many of you espouse, it is a mix of both elements which is what gives it its unique edge. If the either fringe edge players get their way (i.e. those strictly PVE or PVP), the game is doomed.

Finally, the game is rated for Teens and above so no on the "kiddie" mode.

@khompewtur sagte in My friends don't want to play anymore (griefing):

@bhastrhad said in My friends don't want to play anymore (griefing):

@watcheyewendigo
I have to say it again.....PVE Servers are not possible!
How can you stop someone from stealing your loot if no damage can be done?
PVE Servers=Griefer Servers

Here's a sketch of a PvE server:

All cannon/melee damage is off between any pirate.

All treasure is up for grabs, first come first serve.

if you want to allow a non-violent form of PvP-lite, you still permit boarding where using stealth to run away with treasure is permitted.

if you want to fully disallow PvP non-violent thievery then turn off ability to board, or to pick up treasure on another player's ship.

Gunpowder kegs are the biggest conundrum. You cant really turn those off for anyone and retain their core behavior. but a kegging would remain a viable way to sink another in a non PvP construct, so perhaps kegs also prevented from dealing intra-pirate/ship damage.

That's it though, turning off intra-pirate cannon/keg/melee damage is all you need for a PvE server.

Ehm....seriously?

@dlchief58 Agreed, private servers without progression is pretty much the best way to close this endless debate.

Want to play in peace to your own pace? Great.

Expect having to step out of the kiddie pool and leave your comfort zone a bit if you plan on earning rewards though.

@bloodybil I'd even go an extra step on private servers (with progression off of course), add in a few checkboxes to add mods to them. Throw in some weird things like curved/guided canonballs, big head mode, low gravity, accelerated speed...heck even throw in an invulnerability (as a few here seem to want). Just keep it away from the main game and progression so it cannot be abused/farmed and keep the in game economy valid. The mod option would also make it more feasible to market as a rented server.

@dlchief58 Sure, a practice mode with wacky options would be perfect for those who want to play "the way they want".

As long as it's treated like any modded servers with progression off, and as you said it's kept away from the main game, they can have spaceships and submarines for all I care lol.

By now, I can't see how any private/pve server enthusiast wouldn't be in favor of this compromise. They get the mode they long for, and there is an incentive to keep playing public for rewards if they chose so. Pretty reasonable IMO.

@bloodybil Friends and I have talked about a private server to doot around on when we feel like low stress, but it sounds boring to us. Again, we want the PVP, we want the risk, we want player interaction (whether that is an alliance, which in 2 months of playing we never, ever could find people for beyond an initial one we had during friends play free, or a good PVP encounter). We just don't want the spawnkilling, the negative slurs, and the confessed-by-the-griefers griefing. If they ever play again, I guess our solution, until Rare offers us something better, is just gonna have to be completely closing and re-opening the game.

Look i have to defend the designers here. Thought it is a known by-product of the game that it produces a steady stream of victims, there's no crime. It is not a law that game designers be sensitive to the sentiments of their players.

[Mod edit - off-topic comments about IRL politics are not conducive to game discussion. Keep this game related, not a soapbox.]

So I'm going to have to shift most of my commentary to social media, because Rare seems to want to control the narrative of how they're perceived and can't take criticism.

Not only does the game have issues, but the suppression of people's commentary means this forum is nothing but an echo chamber.

@khompewtur said in My friends don't want to play anymore (griefing):

So I'm going to have to shift most of my commentary to social media, because Rare seems to want to control the narrative of how they're perceived and can't take criticism.

Not only does the game have issues, but the suppression of people's commentary means this forum is nothing but an echo chamber.

That would be because for some reason you keep trying to bring politics that has nothing to do with the game into subject (without really making much sense either). If you want to shill and try to compare certain types of players to certain political crowds or partisans, this isn't the place and mods appear to be tired to see you trying to stir up the pot. Good luck on social medias.

@watcheyewendigo lol you can play this game how you want to play it. That has no bearing on how others affect you while in the game environment. You can choose to be a pacifist, but others don't have to. That is what the freedom Rare is providing entails. No promise has been broken. You however, seem to not like other people playing the game how they like.