Fix Red Sea exploit - move the loot back into the play area.

@triheadedmonkey said in Fix Red Sea exploit - teleport loot back to play area.:

@entspeak
@entspeak said in Fix Red Sea exploit - teleport loot back to play area.:

Video game exploit - Wikipedia

In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, speed or level design etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers.

there are no advantages gained by anyone, so by your own choice of definition, it is not an exploit.

Maybe a tad unsporting, but not an exploit.

Exactly what I was thinking - not an exploit by definition. This puts it in the unexpected feature category, which in fairness is still something that can be addressed if it is an unintended feature, but it isn't an exploit as much as one might dislike it.

@nightmare247365 said in Fix Red Sea exploit - teleport loot back to play area.:

The way I look at it is that loot is my loot until someone comes and takes it from me. If you want to come and try to take it from me and I sail off the end of the map that is my choice since I earned that loot myself. You did not help, you are only looking to relieve me of that loot. I would rather waste X amount of my time that allow you X amount of treasure for not doing quests.

Precisely this. Call me whatever names you want, but I'd rather sink in the red sea with my middle finger to the sky and know you and I both walk away with no loot than watch you sail away with things I worked to get. I hate PvP, especially when soloing, and this is a way for me to express my distaste for it in game that doesn't reward the people who want to force me to PvP.

(Not calling to remove PvP from the game obviously, I like the risk and danger, it makes the game exciting. But I don't enjoy the act of fighting. If I can't outright get away, I'll sprint for the red sea.)

@ironuzuka Holy cow! I have not seen you post in a long time!! THought you may have abandoned ship! Hope the Seas have been good to you! :)

@urihamrayne said in Fix Red Sea exploit - teleport loot back to play area.:

@redeyesith "unexpected feature category"

so an oversight that can be exploited?

gee guys are you all still salty you got a thread locked for talking about gaining xp before turning in loot?

It provides no one an advantage, it is not an exploit.

@fun-director Ahoy, Yeah man I am busier than before, but I try to pop by and see what's up. Mainly on the discord now. Although I do not participate much there. I'm glad to see friendly faces such as yours and @TouchDown1504, among many others! Much love to everyone, even the ones I argue with. That goes for you @entspeak .

@jonaldinho said in Fix Red Sea exploit - teleport loot back to play area.:

I personally would never do something like this out of spite. I prefer to fight. However, @entspeak I really don't see your point here. Did you sink the boat? No. The player sunk himself, either out of spite or it could have been by accident. I have never seen anyone do this and I have a feeling this is an outlier. The point is YOU didn't sink him first. That's your loss. All we know is that you chased him into the red sea.

Again, I have no issue with people giving up and sinking their boat or with people who end up in the Red Sea by accident. And, people don't "chase others into the Red Sea," nobody says, "hey, let's drive that guy into the Red Sea." It's the person being chased who intentionally goes into the Red Sea for the express purpose of removing their loot from the board.

The Red Sea is there so that we don't have to have an invisible wall that we bump into, which is just awkward. This was a creative means of dealing with it. It is the equivalent of "Return to the Combat Area" in Battlefield. If there were an invisible wall to keep people in the play area, you would be unable to take your loot off the board. This is taking advantage of a mechanic that was intended solely as a creative means of keeping people in the play area.

@triheadedmonkey said in Fix Red Sea exploit - teleport loot back to play area.:

@entspeak
@entspeak said in Fix Red Sea exploit - teleport loot back to play area.:

Video game exploit - Wikipedia

In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, speed or level design etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers.

there are no advantages gained by anyone, so by your own choice of definition, it is not an exploit.

Maybe a tad unsporting, but not an exploit.

An advantage can mean a favorable or desirable circumstance. If it is favorable to a player to prevent their loot from stolen even if it means losing it themselves, then that is the advantage. It is an advantage they would not have if there were an invisible wall instead of the Red Sea.

@ironuzuka said in Fix Red Sea exploit - teleport loot back to play area.:

@entspeak So, in the thread I gave you. We are discussing whether what you are calling an exploit, is an exploit. Which is the base of your thread. You say it is. And you do not explain why it is one or why it is unfair and needs fixing. The thread does address this.

Read back... I did explain why it is one, and exactly why it is unfair and needs fixing. In detail, I explained those things.

There are rumors that what is left at sea, ends up on shores and shipwrecks. Red sea is no exception.
The keep's keys de-spawn when left in the open sea too long, god knows it is never returned.
You assume that the treasures and key de-spawn when sunk in the red sea are not returned either. Please back this up. Keys are not, that's for sure.

You want me to prove something based on a rumor? Prove that the rumor is not merely a rumor, and then we'll talk.

Let's take a simple death match. The players score by killing other players. When a player commits suicide, he gets a penalty. Sometimes it is worth getting a penalty in order to prevent the enemy to score more. Just read the bloody topic I linked you, OR i'll just copy/ paste it all ?

The core principle of this game is that, if you don't protect your loot, it can be stolen. Everything is designed with that concept in mind.

So, here's the fallacy you are engaging in:

This isn't a deathmatch game. In this game, you don't get points for killing. If, you got reputation for sinking a ship, but a person scuttled it, I would not argue that the attacking ship should get the reputation for the sinking of that ship when they didn't do it. But, loot is there even if you sink. The fact remains, if there was an invisible wall (the thing the Red Sea is intended to replace), anyplace in the world that you sank, the loot would remain. That is why this is an exploit.

@entspeak Well I agree with you on the exploit based on your perception. It is true that this zone is special and behaves differently. Although the notion of winning and losing here is what will determine if it is an exploit.
The red sea might have been intended as a "safe scuttle" zone which would also aline with the scuttle option.
It depends whether you consider victory the fact that you forced them to sink and abandon their loot, or if you can only be happy and celebrate victory if you have taken from the defeated.
That my friend, is a totally new chapter to this debate.

@fishst1ck said in Fix Red Sea exploit - teleport loot back to play area.:

@entspeak
Sounds like someone is upset over their possible loot victim taking their loot to their grave :)

Nope. It's never happened to me - but that's because I don't tend to chase people... and don't do much theft. I'd never heard of this exploit until someone pointed it out to me.

This isn't an exploit, they basically sailed off the edge of the world in order for you not getting your thieving hands on their hard earned loot. They'd rather take it to their graves than hand it over. If you're brave enough you can follow them to try and get it, but you'd probably die trying.

Given that the Red Sea was included as a means of keeping players on the map, this makes no sense. It's there in place of the invisible wall you find in other games. When challenged, pretty much everyone has conceded that the Red Sea wasn't intended for this purpose.

@entspeak "Given that the Red Sea was included as a means of keeping players on the map," assumption ? If not quote Rare on this.
We have to be precise about what we are discussing. Otherwise we wont progress in this fine discussion.

@ironuzuka said in Fix Red Sea exploit - teleport loot back to play area.:

@entspeak Well I agree with you on the exploit based on your perception. It is true that this zone is special and behaves differently. Although the notion of winning and losing here is what will determine if it is an exploit.
The red sea might have been intended as a "safe scuttle" zone which would also aline with the scuttle option.
It depends whether you consider victory the fact that you forced them to sink and abandon their loot, or if you can only be happy and celebrate victory if you have taken from the defeated.
That my friend, is a totally new chapter to this debate.

The devs have said that there are no safe zones, and never will be. They wanted the possibility that loot can be stolen to be ever present... until you hand it in.

Terrible idea

@urihamrayne said in Fix Red Sea exploit - teleport loot back to play area.:

@redeyesith "this unintended feature is not making anyone win anything, therefore it's intended"

What gym class do you go to have the ability to pull off that many mental gymnastics?

That isn't event remotely what I said. I flat out said if the unintended feature is undesired it should be patched, but that is a call for the devs to make and not us - it is their game, we are consumers. Assuming they take no steps to change it, I would argue they are fine with how it turned out.

@entspeak And yet the red sea is here and contradicts what they said. Weird, what speaks louder actions or words ?
Plus, I would like to apologies on the trigger word. Not a safe zone since the zone itself is trying to kill you.

@ironuzuka said in Fix Red Sea exploit - teleport loot back to play area.:

@entspeak "Given that the Red Sea was included as a means of keeping players on the map," assumption ? If not quote Rare on this.
We have to be precise about what we are discussing. Otherwise we wont progress in this fine discussion.

You're can't possibly be serious. Is the Red Sea anywhere except at the edge of the map? Do you sink if you stay in this zone? Does the game not warn you that you will sink if you go off the edge of the map? It is, therefore, reasonable to conclude that the devs put it there to keep players on the map.

@urihamrayne said in Fix Red Sea exploit - teleport loot back to play area.:

@redeyesith I'm pretty sure unreachable loot is very unintended mate. If the read sea has the loot float in an area you can't reach I am pretty sure this should be patched to move it where you can, not to the play area though that is just dumbing it down.

Which I also said - an unintended feature. I never said it wasn't, the actual question is if it is desirable or not, and if it isn't the devs can patch it, if they're fine with it they can leave it as it is. It feels like you're trying to argue for the sake of arguing at this point, so unless you have something meaningful to add to what I've said I believe I'm done with this conversation.

@captgraykid said in Fix Red Sea exploit - teleport loot back to play area.:

@entspeak I have had this happen more than once. If you drop anchor just on the edge of the map and watch the enemy sink. You can swim into the red sea and grab the loot.

The red sea doesn't kill you if you swim in it? Are there no sharks out there?

@touchdown1504 said in Fix Red Sea exploit - teleport loot back to play area.:

@entspeak Not 100% sure about sharks. But you can swim in it. I have swam out of it before and was picked up by a Galleon!

There absolutely are sharks out there, but there are also sharks in the non-red sea area too, so that doesn't make much a difference. You can absolutely swim in there though, that isn't an issue.

@touchdown1504 said in Fix Red Sea exploit - teleport loot back to play area.:

@captgraykid said in Fix Red Sea exploit - teleport loot back to play area.:

@entspeak I have had this happen more than once. If you drop anchor just on the edge of the map and watch the enemy sink. You can swim into the red sea and grab the loot.

I brought up the exact same point in another thread to the OP no less. That's not good enough, he just wants it to be easier.

You did not bring this point up in another thread, that'd be a flat out lie - no mention of staying out of the Red Sea and swimming in.