Death spiral....of the game?

  • Bear with me. I know claims that "change 'x' will kill the game" are as old as the forums themselves. I am not prone to hyprebole and I'm nottrying to be controversial or lean into excessive FUD. But I do feel something has changed....

    I got my season 10 SOT coin in the mail recently and it made me sad. I will not be gettings a season 11, 12, or 13+ coin. And that made me reflect on where we are at.

    The game has always been buggy. I think we take that for granted. But the state seems to have gotten worse. We used to hear that "hitreg is hard to fix" and was one lingering bug we expected to deal with. But now every release has new bugs and, worse, regeression bugs. CRUD launching is prevalent. Ladder launching is still a thing. Nobody does it because CRUD is so much easier and reliable, but when...if...it gets patched, we're still back to ladder launching. Silent boarding is back. The water rendering bug has been in the game for 5 months and counting, despite multiple claims it is patched. It is worst in hourglass, but anybody doing a sneak play swimming has seen it, and finding your merm when it decides to render wrong is impossible. Dolphin diving is still a thing. I personally have posted here many times about the infinite black screen while the game decides when, or even if, it'll respawn you. And I'm increasingly convinced crews have figured out how to "occupy" the spawn locations to make the bug more prevalent.

    These aren't edge cases anymore. These are functionally experience-ruining bugs. A healthy game would see these be less frequent, and yet we are in a place where they are more frequent than ever. That's a sign where technical debt is outpacing the ability for the studio to pay for dev-hours to fix it (in new/larger teams.) I pay attention here and on reddit, and the signal-to-noise ratio is significantly higher than it was even six months ago. So this isn't just me. Though I admit, it is impacting me in a real way as well. From 2018 through 2023, when xbox released their year-end stats, SoT was my most played game of that year by a wide margin. This year, I fully expect Diablo 4 to take the crown for 2024 in my stats. And not because Diablo is such a crowning achievement that unseated SoT on its own. But game breaking games makes me significantly less excited to play, and the game group I have simply aren't texting me to sail after work like they used to; so its impacting them too. SoT should still be my most played game. When it works, it is still far and away more fun than the grind that is Diablo. But. Diablo "works" most of the time. And if I'm playing a game less, I'm spending less in the emporium. I was the guy who would buy $50 every season just to re-up my plunder pass and buy a random set or pet or something. Just to throw money back to a game that I got much more out of than I was putting in. I never equip the sets I buy. But it was a path to give devs money. Now? I re-upped my plunder pass for season 13. But didn't spend any other money because my playtime in season 12 was such a steep drop-off that I didn't feel like I had gotten $50 worth of value from the game that season.

    And back full circle to the coin. When companies like Vistaprint exist and can print marketing merch on demand, Rare cut the SoT merchandise store. Even if no new assets were getting developed, being able to sell existing assets seems like a near-zero cost thing to do. And yet apparently the cost was still too high. We're seeing Rare get more aggressive with emporium ads. And while I understand that Rare is a business and the emporium is a meaningful source of much-needed income, the more aggressive the marketing, the more "desperate" it seems. It's been multiple years since we last heard about Everwild, and while the teams are separate from a dev standpoint, I'm sure a game that is overdue in development is hitting Rare's bottom line, and cost cutting is hitting ALL departments at this point as the gaming industry as a whole continued to cope with shortfalls and layoffs.

    And all of this, cumulatively, makes me wonder how much longer this game can survive. Live service games are hard. I'm glad it has lasted as long as it has. But it feels like we are reaching an impasse where continuing to run it will be more expensive than Rare can afford.

    I'm not saying the game is dead. I don't even have enough knowledge to say it is dying. But, man, I don't like the trends I'm seeing, and anecdotally I sure am concerned. Tell me, where am I wrong?

  • 21
    Gönderi
    16.3k
    Görüntüleme
  • You brought up something a while back and I think about it from time to time.

    You said something along the lines of you know you can quit and walk away and that's a part of what bothers you because you know you aren't gonna look back if you take that step.

    I think about it because I'm the same way. This game isn't hard to quit, it would be pretty easy to quit and that's what makes it kinda unique in feeling. Being so attached to something that can be so easy to walk away from.

    It's a part of why I just enjoy the moment. It's why I went to just casual play, it's why I changed a lot around in my way of play and my view of the game. To get comfortable with the last phase of play, to be at peace with it.

    I don't have a lot more to say on it other than I hope y'all get to the point that I was lucky enough to get to. This was an awesome ride and it's still around. Every day is a win and I'll just ride it out until I don't wanna ride anymore.

  • I used to play this game every single day, for years. I had way too many hours in the game. Now I play maybe once every 2 weeks, if that. I didn’t even log in during last weekend’s event or the G&G before it. I did do the ashen bottles and had fun doing that for a day, but I’ve lost the desire I once had to keep this game as my main. That doesn’t stop me from being active in the community daily though.

    I still play games every day, I still spend the same number of hours playing. So unlike some of my crew who changed careers or had a relationship or family change and are now just busier… I still have the same amount of free time, I just no longer spend as much of it on SoT.

    I do get sad about it, but it’s not my first time losing interest in something I invested so much into. I was a hardcore Overwatch player, even playing in a league for a bit, but after they stopped updating the content it became increasingly more difficult to have fun. I stopped playing in October 2021(so a good 2 years after the last content update). But when Overwatch 2 released exactly a year later, I was back. Yeah it has been a bumpy ride, for a while I split my time between the 2, but now I invest my time and money into Overwatch instead of SoT.

  • @abjectarity said in Death spiral....of the game?:

    Now I play maybe once every 2 weeks, if that.

    Is it rewarding?

    I dunno if it's my personality or the fact I'm such a long time solo but I just cant imagine enjoying the game in a random session once in a blue moon type of style.

    To me it would be a closed chapter thing and just never play again.

    Not a whole lotta point to the pve at that level of casual in my mind and pvp is too time consuming randomly and taken too seriously in the contrived scenarios so I couldn't really enjoy that stuff in that casual of gameplay.

    Maybe I just have done so much in the game and seen so much that I don't feel there are any rocks I haven't turned over in the experience.

  • @wolfmanbush said in Death spiral....of the game?:

    @abjectarity said in Death spiral....of the game?:

    Now I play maybe once every 2 weeks, if that.

    Is it rewarding?

    I’m not a solo player, so I enjoy the time. I’m either sailing with any number of crewmates from my circle or I’m doing a tall tale with someone who hasn’t done them. I do love the tall tales, so I’m usually the first to offer to do them when someone mentions they haven’t yet.

    I got into gaming much later in life and it’s 100% social for me, I struggle really hard to find enjoyment in solo games or solo sessions. I’ve tried to find single player games to enjoy but I’ve never found one that holds my attention longer than one or two sessions.

    So I think the fact I’m always playing with at least 1 other person is why I can enjoy things that wouldn’t be very enjoyable otherwise. But this says a lot as well. Most of my circle also used to play daily or semi-daily. And while some have had those life changes I mentioned and that’s why they aren’t on as often, quite a few are like me and just don’t enjoy the game anymore. So it likely influences my desire to play more than if I was someone who always played alone.

  • @abjectarity said in Death spiral....of the game?:

    @wolfmanbush said in Death spiral....of the game?:

    @abjectarity said in Death spiral....of the game?:

    Now I play maybe once every 2 weeks, if that.

    Is it rewarding?

    I’m not a solo player, so I enjoy the time. I’m either sailing with any number of crewmates from my circle or I’m doing a tall tale with someone who hasn’t done them. I do love the tall tales, so I’m usually the first to offer to do them when someone mentions they haven’t yet.

    I have done a lot of tall tales and I generally think they are good for the game but most I probably couldn't casually do other than monkey island. Which is kinda interesting because I have no attachment to monkey island games (even though they were around in my youth).

    Something about the monkey island tall tales just gives me a nostalgic feeling without have any real attachment to the stories or even those types of games.

    The third one is so pretty and island adventurey and the second one has that silly kinda goosebumps vibe to it.

  • As a newish player (as of late season 11), I've been really enjoying the game as it is now, and still feel like there's still a lot more for me to do 600 hours in. It's such a unique game, and while I'm a bit disappointed that I didn't come across the game in earlier seasons, I'm happy to have found it now. I love the PVE/PVP sandbox nature of it, and I love the actual world, the ocean, the islands, and the beautiful sounds/music - I find it really immersive. The fact that every game session is fresh and different is pretty unique compared to other games I've played, and I love the balance of that along with collecting cosmetics and gaining skill longer-term. There's a good amount of opportunity for random interactions with other people, with a lot of potential for exciting, challenging or funny experiences. The cheeky feeling of putting a banana on someone elses stove isn't something many other games have given me.

    Whenever games have been out for a few years, there will always be some people who have basically experienced everything the game has to offer, and end up get burnt-out or jaded, or missing whatever they experienced a few years earlier - whether that was the state of the game itself, the feelings it used to give them, or the people they used to play with. No game lasts forever, and most individual peoples interest in it probably won't last as long as it does, but from my perspective it's not necessarily dying any time soon. It's just come out on playstation, and there are new weapons, new major world events and features, and even more in the pipeline that I'm looking forward to in season 14. Altough there are a lot of bugs, the developers seem pretty involved and things are getting balanced and fixed. Maybe it will never be perfect, but I'm enjoying it.

  • @kie-aus said in Death spiral....of the game?:

    As a newish player (as of late season 11), I've been really enjoying the game as it is now, and still feel like there's still a lot more for me to do 600 hours in. It's such a unique game, and while I'm a bit disappointed that I didn't come across the game in earlier seasons, I'm happy to have found it now. I love the PVE/PVP sandbox nature of it, and I love the actual world, the ocean, the islands, and the beautiful sounds/music - I find it really immersive. The fact that every game session is fresh and different is pretty unique compared to other games I've played, and I love the balance of that along with collecting cosmetics and gaining skill longer-term. There's a good amount of opportunity for random interactions with other people, with a lot of potential for exciting, challenging or funny experiences. The cheeky feeling of putting a banana on someone elses stove isn't something many other games have given me.

    btw giving this up is voluntary it doesn't have to naturally fade away for years for you

    To put this in perspective, I have more time playing the banjo solo than most players have in the entire game. It can be frustrating at times but doesn't need to leave you for thousands and thousands of more hours.

    My advice, don't bite off more than you can chew in the community. This means don't just surround yourself with a lot of the same critical/negative stuff. Maintain the good vibes around people that are chill about the game as well.

    I'm involved in a lot of the hot topics on the forums but that's it for me. The twitch communities I am around are mostly chill, I've never been in the sot discord because that would just be too much for my vibe. I'm not in any drama discord servers. Only read twitter once in a while but don't get involved. I maintain a chill and balanced experience because I know my limits on negativity and criticism.

    It makes a HUGE difference by not letting it go too far. It'll allow you to go for a very very long time in the game, mostly peacefully.

    I'm the most burnt out in sot that I have ever been and I still love the game. In many ways I appreciate where I ended up in SoT more than ever before.

    Maintain it, the rewarding experiences can go on for a very long time.

    Never hesitate to "change the channel" (so to speak).
    If I start hearing "broken game" too much I change the song
    If I start hearing a bunch of disrespect and gossip and drama, I change the station.
    If I start feeling pretty eh about things I find a way to make something fun again.

  • @wolfmanbush Thanks for the advice. Even in the time I've played SoT I've noticed "This will ruin the game!!! This will make solo play impossible!! I'm uninstalling!" etc etc, every time a change is even discussed. I've seen similar negativity in the reddits of most games I've played, and I've left a lot of reddits because of it. The alarmist stuff doesn't bother me so much, but I do find that people saying things like "The game is dying, it's best days are over" makes me a bit sad, maybe because I'm a nostaligic person myself, but even then I know they're ultimately just talking about how they feel. I have some positive/fun SoT people I watch on youtube that give me something to laugh at / aspire to. And I'm old(er) and stressed/burnt-out enough in real life that I don't need extra stress/negativity from a hobby :) Your advice is very relevant and great advice for real life too.

  • @kie-aus said in Death spiral....of the game?:

    @wolfmanbush Thanks for the advice. Even in the time I've played SoT I've noticed "This will ruin the game!!! This will make solo play impossible!! I'm uninstalling!" etc etc, every time a change is even discussed. I've seen similar negativity in the reddits of most games I've played, and I've left a lot of reddits because of it. The alarmist stuff doesn't bother me so much, but I do find that people saying things like "The game is dying, it's best days are over" makes me a bit sad, maybe because I'm a nostaligic person myself, but even then I know they're ultimately just talking about how they feel. I have some positive/fun SoT people I watch on youtube that give me something to laugh at / aspire to. And I'm old(er) and stressed/burnt-out enough in real life that I don't need extra stress/negativity from a hobby :) Your advice is very relevant and great advice for real life too.

    I often mix the two together here because people are always going through something and sometimes reading something that makes sense and sticks to the basics can help someone out in one way or another.

    It just helps to keep things in perspective, to see people as people going through things and not enemies. To see devs as people rather than a company, to see people that make mistakes as human, to see people we disagree with as part of the same community. To see issues as inevitable and imperfection as being understandable.

    The game changes, it'll end someday. It's frustrating at times and we all disagree on so many things but adventure is such an opportunity to co-exist in a way that shows us that we still have things in common.

  • It does feel like a changing of the guard behind the scenes somewhat. I don't know if that's perception or reality. We rarely see the same old faces make announcements or talk about the future of the game, and it seems there's been a marked shift in focus.

    Whether it's lack of funds or the Microsoft ABK tax, they do appear to be focusing excessively on the Emporium. Ironically, this heavy handed approach has the opposite affect on players like me, who are less willing to support a game if it seems predatory. I buy the Plunder Pass but all my Ancient Coins are now only from MS Rewards points and such.

    I look to plans for Season 14 and I'm less enthusiastic about the direction the game is taking. I'm sure many will have a blast with the new tools and mechanics but, for me, it just seems like troll content bait and will be frustrating to deal with regularly.

    This is the nature of live services though, they evolve and change. The game you fell in love with will eventually shift to something you love less. You have to take a step back and consider if it's still fun for you, or if you continue to play out of habit and a yearning for the old game. And maybe that's the time to move on and find another love.

  • @strangeness it makes me sad to think about, but in part it's due to bad actors. Sure there are bugs and exploits out there, if no one uses them they aren't a problem. They get forced to the front of the line and the devs have to deal with it, and we saw what happens when they JUST deal with bugs and how that hurt the community.

    I just wish people would realize not everything needs to be minmaxed into oblivion

  • @realstyli said in Death spiral....of the game?:

    they do appear to be focusing excessively on the Emporium. Ironically, this heavy handed approach has the opposite affect on players like me, who are less willing to support a game if it seems predatory. I buy the Plunder Pass but all my Ancient Coins are now only from MS Rewards points and such.

    I definitely buy less than I used to as far as the new stuff goes but a part of flooding the emporium also seems like it has led to more sales than in the past. So far I'm in between because I have most of the older stuff so sales are hit and miss, but at some point it may be a pretty good deal as the sales turn into more of the stuff I don't have. I do like me a good sale.

    I don't have near the issue with the emporium that many (veteran players) do in general but then there are days where all the content/features I enjoy/love in the game are bugged and then it feels pretty "eh" sometimes.

    I love Captaincy in this game but there are days where almost every piece of it is bugged for me. The logbook feature I love only half works most of the time, the banners are always messed up. The day to day buggy stuff for main immersion content gets frustrating some days.

  • I suppose since I wrote the post, I'll reply to a few things.

    I'm glad a new-ish player chimed in and is finding joy in the game the way I used to. Yes, past tense. I wish I still had that sense of awe the way I once did. It doesn't change the various warning signs I see from Rare as a company, but it does show that the game can pull in a new audience and have some retention.

    I did write once that I was considering walking away. And in full disclosure, I'm still very close to, yet still on this side of that fine line. I no longer experience the joy I once did for the game. But it is still "fun" when it works. The infinite black screen was happening every session and was even oving the game from "fun" to just "unfun" and almost had me walking away. And the state of the game still can be more frustrating than fun some days. I want that feeling of "joy" again. And the content itself could deliver it. On paper, the burning blade is fantastic. In practice, it is still imbalanced anda buggy mess.

    One person posted that they get said when people scream that the game is dying. I want to re-iterate my first post that I am not making such a claim. I've been in these forums long enough to see it with every update, and the game is still here. But I am reading some tea leaves, and as RealStyli mentioned, it does feel like a bigger change is in the air (or changing of the guard as he put it) and that is concerning. Am I saying the game is dying? no. But am I worried that it might be? Absolutely. And this is the first time I've even wondered that in the six years of ups and downs and politics drama that was here, in reddit, on X, etc. Confirmation bias? Maybe. But that's why I presented the evidence as I saw it. The merchandise was a big one for me, and that coin was a reminder of what we briefly had and lost (pirate perks was so short lived compared to the rest of the merch store.)

    I don't want to make this post about me. I posted about the health of the game because I thought it was a conversation worth having. Either in the community, or put voice to thought and see Rare address some of the concerns if I wasn't alone on an island with my thoughts. At this stage though, I think understanding who I am and where I'm coming from may help some people decide how full of it I am, or am not, as the case may be.

    I'm a successful small business owner with employees and a growing customer base. I'm not young. Gen X. I was in high school when the original LucasArts puzzle games like Monkey Island got popular. And was born and am still legally blind. Not "blind" per- se, but the legal classification in the US is, as I recall, 20/80 corrected. And I'm at 20 / 200. This basically removed 99% of traditional sports from my childhood. I didn't play baseball, football, basketball, or similar "communities" from my circle of participation. As an adult, friends go to the local park for a game of pick-up (basketball) and that's out for me. Although I guess pickleball is the new rage, but that's a tangent and rabbit hole we might as well not fall down.

    That also had a ripple effect. Video games were something I could do and my vision wasn't a significant barrier. ColecoVision, then Atari 2600, then my first NES. You get the idea. Gaming was a part of my identity more than most of my generation. Then in the 90s, Microsoft finally added networking to Windows, and LAN parties became a thing. Suddenly video games were a social outlet as well, and I had a real "community" I could be a part of. College was LAN parties, custom rigs, playing WarCraft, Doom, and Quake with CUSeeMe for connectivity (before TCP/IP become the dominant network stack.) My vision meant I was never going to excel at FPSs, but my hand eye coordination was good enough that I was middle of the pack in many games. And in games that embraced "roles" would often excel at certain roles (sniper, artillary, etc) and would be dominant on some squads. It was literally a life altering set of experiences for someone like me. My brain was (and is) programmed not just to embrace a game, but an experience and be a part of a community built around a game. A thousand small steps led me to be this way.

    Fast forward. COD had passionate players, but never a community. Players moved from one iteration to the next on their yearly cadence and fractures any sense of continuity with people one could enjoy playing with. Years went by between games worth building a community around. Orange Box brought TF2 to consoles (my preferred way to play because a large TV is easier on my eyes than even the best gaming monitors), and years later, Titanfall managed to gather a big community. And I played it for years. But it wasn't a live service game, and after the DLC and the black market, like most games, participation eventually dropped. And as the community slowly disbanded, that lack of community meant my interest also waned. Respawn didn't do anything wrong here. It wasn't live service, as I mentioned, so it went through the natural lifecycle that most non-service FPSs go through. But it also meant that there was a void for me in my gaming life.

    Which brings us to Sea of Thieves. The game was scratched an immediate itch for me. Adventure in a sea (pun intended) of cookie cutter FPSs. The pioneer program (of which I was never a part) hinted at deep plans for the game. And the community, like any dysfunctional family, couldn't agree on much, but was VIBRANT and FUN. The extremely regular dev update videos of that first year showed a team that was commutted to the game and listening to the community. Bugs happened. Often. But were also fixed. Often. It felt like the feedback loop was solid and the audience for the game was respected. I had as much fun out of the game as I did in the game. When pioneers got turned into insiders, I was immediately all for participating as deeply as real life would allow.

    Then the warning signs started. And they started small. The dev updates got cancelled. We still have "SOT News" but for thsoe who were used to a weekly stream, this pales in comparison. Heck, even the podcast is gone now, or has been in hiatus for....over a year? But I digress. Engaging with the audience got deprioritized. Then came one person. Summit1G. Whether you like his content or not, he brought a new audience and that should not be taken lightly. I reall when he posted the photo of the physical Chest of Fortune that Rare sent him as a token of appreciation for his contribution to the community. Then a volcano ruined one of his tucc plays, he got mad, and left while taking his audience with him. But the damage was done. Rare was now addicted to the drug that is streamer influence. And actively started catering to them. In some cases, I think this is valid. The streamers can be a represntative voice of the community. But in other cases, they are only their own voice. But Rare seems unable or unwilling to make that distinctoin when deciding on features. As a longtime insider, I won't give away NDA, but I will say that insider voices have become Q&A, at best, and rarely have influence on what features make it into the game and what gets cancelled.

    After the shift to streamers, came the shift to marketing. I have nothing against the emporium. As I said before, I would buy the max ancient coin pacakge every month. Then every season. Now....almost never. And then find ways to spend the ancient coins. I did this to support the game. ....I'm also the guy that would buy the item of the month in Kingdom of Loathing, no matter how bad the item was, because that was a live service game worth supporting. But the mandatory emporium ads when launching the game, the extreme focus at the expense of other cosmetics. The balance was further off, ignoring the community in favor of short term revenue. Maybe this is a necessary evil. Short term revenue is better than no revenue, and if the game is in a death spiral then you take what you need to keep the project afloat. But the perception at the time was, along with the other signs, that the company wasn't doing it out of necessity, but instead out of tone-deafness.

    Then came mysteries A feature that was billed as a new way of storytelling. But both mysteries to date were absolutely marketing with very little story value. Sure, the first mystery at least did some lore building. But the actual method of lore building was 100% social media driven. Now is where I will say that not everyone will like very part of an adventure game. Hourglass will work for some, not for others. Tall tales work for some, not for others. And I suppose acting to solve a mystery through social media appealed to a sliver of the community. But the overwhelming feedback I saw was negaitve, and the arbitrary gatekeeping of information in social media was clearly engineered to "drive engagement" and inflate media influence, not actually engage the community. It was so bad that mystery #2 involved what I can only call a gimmick and a bribe to encourage participation in the guise of a "prize" as I think they knew nobody would participate otherwise. And mystery #2 didn't even meaningfully contribute to lore.

    Which brings us to the things I've already posted. The merch store and pirate perks getting cancelled shortly after launch. The backlog of technical debt and bugs. Bugs I've listed, but also items wolfmanbush brought up. Key experiences broken, like blank logbooks and ship crest names that STILL don't appear consistently despite repeated attempts to fix. Green skelly model when coming back from the ferry far too often. Things that don't impact PvP at all, but certainly break immersion in a game where adventure and immersion are a major driving force behind community engagement with the game.

    For traditional games, game participation drives the community. And as participation naturally falls off, so does the community. But for live service games, the inverse is true. Community drives the game engagement. The new features are important to excite the community, but if the community isn't excited about the burning blade and new ways to engage with it, then the feature isn't going to do much. I find it very hard to believe some random is scrolling X, seeing a BB screenshot, and saying "I want to play that!" after ignoring SoT for years. Yes, there are exceptions that will prove the rule, but that doesn't drive participation in a meaningful way. The community, as fractured and infighting as it is, does.

    And slowly but surely, I feel like the community has been sabotaged, and the game is suffering. And how much it is suffering, behind the scenes, with stats we don't know and likely will never know, will determine the game's future. And for that, I have my concerns. I cling on because it does take a special game to capture my attention. And it seems like years, if not a decade, happens between truly innovative games that engage a community. So this is still better than nothing. It isn't "joy" anymore. It is "fun' but flirts with "unfun" far too often. And when it crosses that line, I stand by what I said before. I'll walk away. And I can't envision a future where I'd come back. Because one way or another, I'll invest my time and energy in a new community. As I said elsewhere, 2024 xbox stats I think will already show Diablo 4 topping SoT. Which if you had told me that two years ago, I'd have thought you were high. But alas, here we are. But Diablo 4 doesn't have a community I've felt was engaging. So while I am happy to sink time into it now, I also don't see it being a long term replacement.

    I won't lie. Helldivers 2 seems like it has a thriving community and devs that listen and are as engaged with their audience the way Rare used to be. I'm fairly invested in the XBox ecosystem so HD2 isn't effectively on my shortlist right now. But if I cross the rubicon with SoT and walk away, a PS5 may be in my future just for that game. I suspect if I already had a PS5, SoT may already be in my rearview, so Rare is benefiting from my back catalog of games being primarily xbox investments and Microsoft's decision on backwards compatibility. That seems like a slim thread to hang keeping an audince around on. But here we are.

    I'm just one guy. I'm not an influencer. I'm not a streamer. Rare won't miss me when I'm gone. And I may be enough of an edge case that I'm not even a good canary in the coal mine as an indicator of bigger problems. But it certainly feels like there are bigger problems. But I also now I have biases, and confirmation bias at that, and am an old cynic on top of it all. So maybe my post, and this followup, are all for nothing. You be the judge. I just needed to write, to get it all out of my head, and give those who care some perspective on why I feel the way I do and why I am concerned, and why I don't "just walk away" to another game. It'd be a hard thing for me to do. I have a lifetime of history on how I got here that makes it a hard thing to do. And something I don't want to do. But I feel it, just over the horizon, hunting me.

    Time will tell.

  • @realstyli said in Death spiral....of the game?:

    It does feel like a changing of the guard behind the scenes somewhat. I don't know if that's perception or reality. We rarely see the same old faces make announcements or talk about the future of the game, and it seems there's been a marked shift in focus.

    Whether it's lack of funds or the Microsoft ABK tax, they do appear to be focusing excessively on the Emporium. Ironically, this heavy handed approach has the opposite affect on players like me, who are less willing to support a game if it seems predatory. I buy the Plunder Pass but all my Ancient Coins are now only from MS Rewards points and such.

    I look to plans for Season 14 and I'm less enthusiastic about the direction the game is taking. I'm sure many will have a blast with the new tools and mechanics but, for me, it just seems like troll content bait and will be frustrating to deal with regularly.

    This is the nature of live services though, they evolve and change. The game you fell in love with will eventually shift to something you love less. You have to take a step back and consider if it's still fun for you, or if you continue to play out of habit and a yearning for the old game. And maybe that's the time to move on and find another love.

    I could have written the exact same thing, except for the part in bold.

    But that's just me not having much patience for Rare's "we don't have enough money or resources to fix bugs, add sandbox features, create free cosmetics and do narrative content at the same time, please buy our numerous 40$ cosmetic sets to help fund our game and please don't complain about paid recolors or curses" routine when they've supposedly sold 1M+ games on PlayStation, which means that, even taking into account Sony and Microsoft's shares + the cost of porting the game (and not forgetting the many new potential whales those sales brought to the game), should have left Rare with quite a decent chunk of change.

  • @strangeness I took the time to read your entire post and you aren’t alone. I don’t know how many of us are out there, and maybe it’s a small enough number for them to ignore. But I do know I have always had a relatively large social circle in this game. Enough to have our own discord server and multiple full guilds to host everyone. Yet at this point very few of us actually play all that often. There are some who are on pretty much every day still, but the majority of us are playing different games. The majority of us have similar gripes over the way things are and appear to be going. I know you tend to surround yourself with likeminded people, so it’s more likely we would share the same sentiment in our group, but I can’t imagine if there’s this many of us feeling a certain way… that we are only a tiny representation, we have to be a little bit bigger number.

  • @kaoteek said in Death spiral....of the game?:

    have written the exact same thing, except for the part in bold.

    But that's just me not having much patience for Rare's "we don't have enough money or resources to fix bugs, add sandbox features, create free cosmetics and do narrative content at the same time, please buy our numerous 40$ cosmetic sets to help fund our game and please don't complain about paid recolors or curses" routine when they've supposedly sold 1M+ games on PlayStation, which means that, even taking into account Sony and Microsoft's shares + the cost of porting the game (and not forgetting the many new potential whales those sales brought to the game), should have left Rare with quite a decent chunk of change.

    They could have made this game financially predatory at any point in time in the last 6 years and they would have gotten away with it in the space.

    It's an expensive product to maintain and develop for.

    What people often miss about SoT is that resources are limited in part, and specifically because, they have maintained a non-predatory business model that prioritizes keeping the fomo lower and play to win rather than pay to win.

    If some players got what they want in this game (make Rare change things around because of boycott/outrage/etc) it wouldn't be a better performing product. It would be a different business plan that is not anywhere near as ethical as it has been for 6 years.

    Rare deserves all the credit they can get for maintaining the non-predatory business model for 6 years in a very tough space to do that in.

    Even when they went the plunder pass route it has been an ethical design and a quality design the entire time. It's largely been a good deal for consumers.

    More people have had the opportunity to enjoy this game specifically because of the business model that does not price them out of quality experiences.

  • The big bugs are bad, but they're usually few and far between. It's the little things that I have to deal with every session that wear down my drive to play the game. Things like

    • Not being able to pick up the crate I just bought half of the time (it's been 'fixed' 2 or 3 times)
    • GDK servers not registering jumps. I call it "eating my jump". You know it's happening when you start to jump and then rubberband back to the ground. Seems to happen like 10% of the time I'm sword lunging, ruining it.
    • 1 driver crash per session. Exclusive to SoT after the GDK update and sometimes requires a full restart in a potentially very intense situation.
    • Getting kicked out of my HG match for EAC violation when there is none. Not frequent but I'm completely helpless to this one
    • Random rubberbanding
    • other players teleporting around when there is a high server load
    • bucket reg

    Sometimes you just step back and ask yourself a question. The same question that my friends asked a while back. "If it's not fun, why bother?" Thankfully I still get enjoyment from PvP or I wouldn't play much anymore.

  • @strangeness here from the start. will be here to the end. But my play time has significantly reduced. People I played with in the past have disappeared. My long standing crew mate who supports the game whole heartedly doesn't have his heart in it anymore. We may play once a week for a few hours if that. It's not the bugs or the cheaters it's content. Yep we played lots in the past so we have seen all the game has to offer. We've tried or completed and most definitely repeated. I'm not a commendation hunter nor have I turned pvp. Getting all factions up to 500 feels pointless to me. Athena curse and reaper curse are all very nice but im not interested in pvp. Not that slog. So its complete the seasons plunderpass and see which of the new items I'm capable of earning. If its a pvp season, like the burning blade I'm out. Just finding less and less to do each season. But will be here to the end.

  • @strangeness

    You wrote an amazing post, and reply. Not only did I read it to myself, I read both to my spouse too. Not going to lie, when I first read the title of this, I scoffed and said, "Oh here we go again," but after reading your well-written thoughts/opinions of the current state, I can't see how anyone could/would disagree.

    I totally forgot about those mysteries, and couldn't agree more with what you said. I remember doing the first one, and feeling let down at how much it was left to social media. That was a major let down to me, as it seemed to only encourage people not to play. I've played World of Warcraft for 13yrs now (I only dabble in it nowadays, haven't played in months), and they've had in-game mysteries that took place IN the game. So many people were actively involved, a WoW-Secret community was created on Discord so teams of players could organize and explore every dungeon, raid, and zone. Their findings were reported back so everyone knew what was searched already. It got players IN the game, talking to each other, and it brought a whole new community together, with everyone interested in solving it. When I found out the mysteries here would lead me to social media, it was quite a large letdown with me, because I'd rather be having fun in the game searching vs. searching on Twitter (I remember someone asking how the Pirate Lord knew about Twitter). Once I heard that, I didn't even bother, and told myself I'd learn about it after someone else solved it.

    The bugs you've mentioned, are almost starting to feel as if they're "part of the game," yet it never used to be like this. I look at another ship, and all I see is a blank crest name. When my crew and I are in a naval battle, if I die, I'm stuck on a blackscreen for what feels like forever while I hear them doing what they need to. When I don't need a mermaid it spawns close, but when my crew needs me back now, I'll swim for miles and not get one until it finally decides. I purchase supplies, and the NPC won't give them to me. We dive to a new server, and get sound bugs, curseball effects, or the wind is going incredibly fast. I've heard members of my crew report that for some reason their weapon won't fire. Suddenly the game lags out for everyone, and the ping goes thru the roof. The bugs they say are fixed, oftentimes aren't, and bugs that have been around for years are still here. We sunk a Burning Blade last night, yet none of the treasure floated up. All that we saw were barrels. We're waiting there for 5min or so, debating as to what happened, could've happened, etc., when suddenly treasure comes falling out of the sky and lands in the water behind us as we were leaving, figuring we simply got robbed and oh well. Rubberbanding/stuttering was happening to my gally crew so bad a few days ago, we couldn't stand it as everything we looked at around us was twitching. The lighting on and around the ship is starting to act up now, and it's horrible at times. We've discovered that if we throw a fireball onto the ship and put it out, it fixes the intesity of how dark it is, however the blinding light we're seeing recently, has us constantly adjusting the brightness/contrast every day/night cycle. A friend of mine has a clip showing him shooting a chicken 8 times before it finally dies. Not even going to mention cheaters, and how EAC apparantly needs to catch up with some things I've seen lately. A new bug I've recently encountered, happened last night where I was on the ship one minute, fell thru the floor into the water and had to take a mermaid to get back. It happened again today to not only myself, but my crewmate too at the same exact moment. Is this a bug we'll just have to start living with also?

    My friends have started making comments here and there, and because I love the game so much, I find myself (and they've noticed) defending it, reminding them that no game is without bugs and glitches. Yet the types of bugs and glitches that are (and keep) occuring, are becoming numerous and ruin people's enjoyment. We almost sailed away last night without the skull, chest of fortune, and sword after sinking the Burning Blade, everyone seemingly being content with the simple fact that we got robbed and what else is new? I can't keep defending it, and I don't know what else I can do. Every person is unique, and it's up to them to decide how long they're willing to put up with the current state of problems, that seem to be getting worse. Having to hear my friend vent about the inability to kill a chicken after 8 shots watching white X after white X on it, all I can do is make a joke about it.

  • As someone who voyages between games and different genres of games all the time, i see this ''feeling'' happening a lot, and i've experienced it a few times myself, though not to the extent you guys are experiencing it as people that played a game extremely regularly for years. I don't tend to get attached to a game for too long, but rather get hooked to them for a few months at a time, and then i move on to something new, or rehook myself to something i enjoyed in the past. For my favourite games i tend to come back, like i've done in SoT a few times now, and get hooked again for a few months. In those moments i also tend to actively participate in that games community and it's always interesting seeing the veterans being nostalgic for the good old days, as it were, or kind of lamenting the lack of passion they once had.

    But to give a perspective from more of a casual player (800 hours over 2 years is pretty extreme commitment for most games but for live services like SoT it's not), Sea of Thieves is still a fantastic experience. There's more content than ever, the issues you mentioned are there but very much in the background or even hardly noticeable for the casual player, and the game is receiving slow but steady content or QoL updates with new seasons (along with some unfortunate QoL downgrades due to issues or strange patch decisions). Overall it's a bustling environment for any player to dive into, and it promises to be that way for a long time still. Even when Rare working actively on new seasons will eventually slow and stop, keeping the game running and fixing some of the issues will require less investment than they are doing now, and the game can be around for a long time still to let people enjoy the complete package and finish their achievements and commendations for years to come.

    There's just always a level of getting jaded and being too aware and caught up in all the games inner workings that comes with being such a long time player. It's different for everyone, but we tend to get attached to the period in which we experienced the game as we learned all the ins and outs and became proficient at it, maybe hit our skill ceilings. Personally i've stuck around for long enough in multiple games i went back to often, to finally have called it quits. I've enjoyed my time, and the memories and videos and screenshots are great, and it's not really worth trying to squeeze more out of it when i know i can sink my teeth into something else that will get that fire burning much brighter again. But that's the beauty of our lifelong voyage in video games, there's always something else to get that spark of excitement and wonder going again, at least in my case. Taking a break never has to be permanent goodbye, and it's always a good idea when jade sets in. And for as long as the game is around, you're always welcome to give it another bash. Just earlier this year i pumped hundreds of hours into a massive galaxy spanning exploration trip in Elite Dangerous, a game (and online environment) i'd not felt the urge to play since my time with it in 2014 and 2015. And i'll keep revisiting and participating in communities and then taking long breaks from games like this until i've figured it's been good enough.

21
Gönderi
16.3k
Görüntüleme
9 / 21