Double Gunning is overpowered and its no fun for the game
Double Gunning
To some extent I agree, it is the meta due to high dps, most seem to using it these days which is evidence in itself that is it farily OP and I think the whole combat system could do with abit of a shakeup, there is way's to combat it though. Understanding it's playstyle is important when fighting against the double gun. Most use the blunder/EoR. It's high damage but high risk if shots are missed.
To fight them it's all about anticipating it, dodging or throwing off the first shot is paramount. Dodge with the sword or blunderbomb initially. The second EoR shot will follow quickly afterwards especially if the animation cancel is used. Again, anticipate this. You may get hit but you won't die. They're now holding 2 weapons with no shot loaded, this is your chance, run at them and hug them.
Fighting multiple DG'ers is a death sentence on your own. it's a similar strategy as before but much harder. Basically you've got to exploit it's weakness which is being defenceless if they have no weapons loaded and they rely on being able to ADS without distraction.
Understanding your enemy is half the battle in SoT.
@pithyrumble I really would love that, it would give me a reason to use the blunder, however if they allowed it, i would run around with 2 pistols and a sword.
@pithyrumble said in Double Gunning:
Duplicate guns would definitely be op lol. Double EoR? Yikes
Absolutely it would be, i only mention pistol because it seems like the only one that wouldnt be op since it doesnt do blunder damage or have the range and travel speed of eor shots.
At this point I should just have the response to this ready to copy and paste...
All of the weapon combos in this game have their strengths and weaknesses! Mind you I say weapon combos this is often a issue in itself where sword users want sword to be balanced around itself but forget they have and should be using 2 weapons not just the one!
Sword + Blunder: Best set up for bilge by far. For those who do not know sword is a MUST run for high level bilges due to sword hop allowing for increased speed in water letting them patch holes far quicker. This set also is best for holding tight spaces, for example camping the enemies captain quarter on a gally where your crew is pummeling them with cannons. Lots of anti boarder benefits with multiple people running sword being ablse to cause infinite sword stun. In addition, this is the best overall PVE weapon set in the game.
Sword + Sniper: Great boarding combo. Sniper + 2 sword hits is lethal making this one of the faster TTK in the game. This combo is great at holding tight spaces as well due to sword like captain quarters on gally, but now you get the benefit of the sniper letting you kill enemies on cannon while you camp captain quarters. Very strong combo with a good team behind you to lock top deck with cannons while you snipe them. Not to mention the added boarding benefits of sword lunge in water and sword hopping.
Blunder + sniper: Best for deck combat. This combo is great for fighting on top deck when you are going to be running around and want to stay mobile. Won't be as strong in tight places as sword is but is great for when you are jumping around top deck so great anti boarder weapon set. Overall best set for when you plan to run around top deck. However, struggles vs coordinated crews who will 3v1 you on boarding due to lacking mobility tools and reload times.
Sniper + pistol: Best for land and water combat.
Sword + pistol: I call this the streamer combo. By far most fun weapon combo in the game but really does not have any benefits else than that. Overall the pistol is outshined by the sniper in nearly all situations. The faster reload speed of the pistol simply does not make up for the added lethality of the sniper. Players are far more likely to heal at 50% HP than 70% HP resulting in the sniper getting a lot unexpected kills on its own compared to pistol.
Pistol + Blunder: Same issues as above just no reason to run pistol over sniper.
it's never bothered me
I've long been a sword/sniper for my own preferences and immersion but I don't care what people use
if someone sends me to the ferry it's because they either outplayed me or because of server issues and neither one of those are a negative thing about the opponent.
if they hit shots then they are skilled and earned it in my view
just like camping or anything else in the game, if they win then they win, I don't really care about or have negative feelings about their preferences other than being cool with them having the opportunity to play how they want.
People don't generally defeat me in combat because they are doing something wrong, I lose because of me and sometimes because of the server, that ain't on them imo.
I use dg probably 90% of the time. My biggest threat is a skilled sword user. If they are good at the mechanics of sword-assisted movement, along with the knowledge that sword isn’t “run forward and swing as fast as possible” then it’s a tough fight.
DG isn’t OP, sword isn’t OP. Both are incredibly effective in the hands of a skilled player.
In the mean time, while you work at getting better with your preferred weapon load out, just use blunderbombs. You can hold 5. More than enough to wreak havoc in a one-on-one.
@mintharp184509 said in Double Gunning:
What’s the best anti-board weapon?
Blunderbuss
What’s the best close range weapon?
Blunderbuss
What’s the best weapon for combat aboard ships?
Blunderbuss
What’s the best weapon for PvE?
Blunderbuss
Only if hit reg works in your favor with it.. I never get that one shot point blank kill when I try to use it but others get it on me even when I am full health, so I stick to sword and EoR with a few blunder bombs here and there.
Join the dark side then. Yes and no there is ridiculous damage potential but you do have to hit your shots and against crews all using sword you potentially do need the sword for ability to block. It also severely limits your mobility compared with sword and as such affects your decision making and potential tactics you can use.
I switch between double gun and using sword@mintharp184509 Did you just blatantly ignore when I mentioned: sword sniper as one of the best boarding choices... This is the best combo for boarding to hold captain quarters and keeping pressure on cannons letting your crew get cannon line. Or sniper pistol for best weapon combo for land and water combat...
Else than the pistol every weapon is very strong in its own way. Just because blunderbuss is the best for running around the top of the deck does not mean it is the best for everything... Blunderbuss seriously lacks range forcing you to pair it with a sniper or forcing you to play in a very specific way. It is the counter to sword in many ways which is why most players hate it, but due to its range problems EoR+Pistol pair very strong against it especially on top deck gally combat where you can space properly.
Sniper+Pistol is extremely susceptible to sword with sword hop being a great tool to dodge letting you capitalize on the reload times especially on ship combat where you have a lot of ways to play with line of sight.
I will say however Blunder + Sniper is the best for sloop deck combat due to having a lot of mid range angles, weird lines of sight for EoR to play around, and having a lot of floors to jump between.
The main reason most people complain sword is bad is because they play with it buy simply running at someone expecting to win the fight... That is not how you play sword. You hold corners and take advantage of sword stun to capitalize. Another big problem are players don't use their other tools with sword. You can quick swap to and from sword with other weapons and kill with 1 combo after any shot. The amount of people who choose too instead sword lunge in extremely predictable ways or just run straight into a double gunner is frankly ridiculous than complain that sword is bad on the forums.
In addition, people still ignore how sword gives unprecedent mobility allowing you to get new board angles, and is a MUST run for high level bilges.
SWORD IS NOT WEAK and DOES NOT NEED A BUFF!
Pistol sure though a reload buff would make it so you could not even eat between shots anymore which would just be unfun, and a damage buff would just make it a better EoR.
Blunder is also fine as is you just can't run into it and play around it. Stop expecting to beat it close range... If you struggle so much play EoR+pistol and space it out you will win 9/10 times
@mintharp184509 Which part is untrue...
Best at mobility is definitely sword, best at Bilge is definitely sword, best at holding corners is also definitely sword...
Best at DPS blunderbuss...
Blunderbuss is the better close range weapon than sword AND THAT IS OK. Sword makes up for it with stun lock and mobility options the blunder does not have. It just sounds like you want to sword to be the blunder + sword tools...
@mintharp184509 said in Double Gunning:
Most of that is simply untrue.
Because
25/60 less than 100
All day, 365 days a year.
Thats fairly misrepresentative.
The raw numbers are less, yes, but sword has the highest base attack rate, and even though it has a shorter base range than blunder, the lunge grants a lot of range and some creative plays that you physically cant pull off with a blunder. You can outplay people who use a blunder, using sword and pistol without any issue. How do i know? every other person that boards me uses a blunder, and i tend to keep my ship secure from boarders. Its not about the raw numbers, its about how you use the kit in question.
If your not that good with a sword and just walk up to the person with a blunder and just start swinging, of course your going to get destroyed.
@mintharp184509 said in Double Gunning:
Lunges are risky and if you fail a single one you’re likely done.
Sword swipes are low damage not enough to concern a blunderbuss user with good food.
If you’re a good player you can use any weapon and do okay. That’s not the point of this discussion.
Ever since I switched to blunderbuss / EoR I have been doing much better overall so from my personal experience and watching a lot of content creators I can assure you it’s more rare to main sword pistol.
They are risky, thats why you dont just charge up out in the open right infront of your enemy, you need to be creative to make a lunge work.
As for being a decent player with any weapon not being the point, then, your right, and not having skill isnt the point either, the point was just if it was op or not. So if as you stated, being decent with any weapon can make it work just fine then that means they arnt op. If every weapon does fine with skill, then it cant be op.
@goldsmen said in Double Gunning:
Double gunners say that the sword is over powered and unfun. If both sides think the other side is over powered, that means neither is over powered.
Now that's just not true at all.
You have to remember that people are people, Golds.
And people will say anything they lose to that they aren't using is overpowered.
You can have people using the objectively most overpowered thing ever, get killed by something that's objectively underpowered, and they will genuinely feel that whatever was used to kill them is overpowered, while genuinely feeling that what they were using is not.If both sides say the other is overpowered, that means absolutely nothing, other than that people still suck at forming "opinions".
I could say the same about the cutlass but I don't, I learn to adapt to it, improvise using my tools available, and overcome the problem by getting better.
Double gunning is a comfortable loadout for me, you got a blunder for anti-boarder defense and a sniper for kegs, boarders that got past the blunder or just taking shots at the enemy if you can't hit cannons at the moment
Sword can replace any of them yes, but removing an entire gameplay style simply because "you don't like it" or suck at defending against it is not a valid reason or big enough issue to really change.
@mintharp184509 said in Double Gunning:
@sammyr0cks said in Double Gunning:
I use dg probably 90% of the time.
DG isn’t OP, sword isn’t OP.
Lol then why use it 90% of the time?
Have you ever heard of using something because "it's just more fun"...?
@mintharp184509 said in Double Gunning:
What’s the best anti-board weapon?
Blunderbuss
What’s the best close range weapon?
Blunderbuss
What’s the best weapon for combat aboard ships?
Blunderbuss
What’s the best weapon for PvE?
Blunderbuss
Actually it's
- Blunder, but sword can do just as well since you don't have to reload
- Blunder, but sword can do just as well since you don't have to reload, PLUS how convenient you set up your examples to directly exclude ANY long/mid range combat where pistol and sniper instantly become better. For long/mid/underwater combat: pistol/sniper
- Any weapon is good aboard ships if you know how to use it
- Sword cause you don't have to reload and you can hit multiple enemies at once. It will stun most skeletons, and provides mobility against the enemies you can't stun.
@the-old-soul800 said in Double Gunning:
@goldsmen said in Double Gunning:
Double gunners say that the sword is over powered and unfun. If both sides think the other side is over powered, that means neither is over powered.
Now that's just not true at all.
You have to remember that people are people, Golds.
And people will say anything they lose to that they aren't using is overpowered.
You can have people using the objectively most overpowered thing ever, get killed by something that's objectively underpowered, and they will genuinely feel that whatever was used to kill them is overpowered, while genuinely feeling that what they were using is not.If both sides say the other is overpowered, that means absolutely nothing, other than that people still suck at forming "opinions".
My point is that if everything is supposidly over powered, then nothing is over powered, if sword or double gun were over powered, you could measurably prove it, but as it stands theres only claims of "its op!" and some anecdotes.
So unless some one proves that something is measurably over powered, then to me, all the claims of "the other side is op" means that they are probably equal if both sides make the very same claim.
As a sword user, i would like to note that i tried double gun for a while, and its shockingly difficult to get down. I spent maby a few days struggling with it before i swapped back to sword. Its hard enough having to live around 1 single box at all times, and the need to hit all of your shots accurately constantly because you have a limited number of attacks when your away from an ammo box doesnt make it easier.
I will stick to my sword and pistol because i like having something to fall back to when i run out of ammo.
@mintharp184509 "I can assure you it’s more rare to main sword pistol."
Nice to know my playstyle and loadout is rare ;).
I used to be abit of complainer when it came to double gun but having tried a lot of the combinations out myself lately and improved my "tdm'ing" abilities it's changed my mind completely. Like @nitroxien has rightly pointed out, most who complain about x weapon are just not using the counters effectively and complain because they have lost.
The only thing I will say that should be removed is any exploits such as the animation cancel. Even though there is a hard coded 1 second timer, it still gives you time to aim improving accuracy. Exploits affect the balance, without exploits the weapons are 100% balanced with each other.Double gunning isn't very pirate'y. I think the game would be better if the first slot would be sword-locked.
Also the sword should be fixed before we start discussion about its viability (block and combo initiative bugs, see vid below).
@mintharp184509 it's all about understanding the weapons. I used to die alot to the blunderbuss, now hardly ever even being a sword/pistol main. It's all about anticipating what your opponent is going to do.
I wouldn't be opposed to a weapon rebalance but I find most of the time a lot unfair fights are either down to hit reg, server backtracks or exploits.
I challenge you to 1v1 anyone who’s decent at cqc repeatedly.
You use sword / sniper they use blunderbuss / sniper and see who kills who first, repeat 10x. Do it on a ship, doesn’t matter what ship, pick one.
Sure where on a ship? In captain quarters or catching them behind stairs I will win 9/10 times.
On top deck of a gally or running around a sloop I will lose 9/10 times.
Sword+ sniper is not the best CQC weapon loadout that is blunder sniper and that is ok.
Sword Sniper is better for camping tight corners, bilging, and getting creative boarding angles using swords mobility. Sniper aids with being able to poke while ratting and having added range lethality to force them to approach you.
@mintharp184509 said in Double Gunning:
I look forward to killing you with my blunderbuss. Hope you play on Xbox only servers.
- I play PC
- Even if I played Xbox I wouldn't play on preferred controller only servers
- I'm in Aus servers so we probably wouldn't ever find each other, and if we did one of us would be at a disadvantage because of ping
- I don't play that often so good luck
Glad we could come to an agreement that instead of valid counter-points it came down to "I'm better than you har har"
SwordSpam
16 out of 46
