they just need to fix the time it takes to switch between weapons, say 1-2 second switch. that and get rid of the double gun reload exploit and everyone will be happy again...save for the unsavory few who only use it cause its broken as heck and they like it that way because it gives them an advantage.

@mintharp184509 Let us agree to disagree then, cause we could go back and forth on personal anecdotes all night. Ultimately, it's up to Rare if they view a weapon needs a buff or a nerf, and currently, it appears they are happy with the layout of things. I respect that perhaps there are changes to be made, but i believe those changes could also be better implemented through an actual combat overhaul, rather than playing with numbers, and should only come also after hitreg is not as major an issue as it is now.

@mintharp184509 Pure stats and abilities alone are not all there is to go on then, clearly. If you are going to bring outhealing and food into it, i shall bring environment and situation back into this too.

The Eye of Reach does 70 damage a shot, but also requires good, precise aim, and quickshot abilities too. And again, much like the blunderbuss, requires a lengthy reload upon a shot, hit or not. On a ship, the Eye of Reach can be countered with blunder bombs and hiding behind objects like barrels, masts, etc. Unless you're on a Galleon or the deck of a Brigantine, the eye of reach can suffer, as the deck and hold of a sloop are misshapen and uneven, full of obstacles, and the hold of a brigantine (and to an extent, Galleon) are also full of obstacles. These all impact the Eye of Reaches precise line of sight required. Same applies to the Blunderbuss, it makes it difficult to get upclose and personal if people are weaving around.

Furthermore, the Swords lunge allows you to strafe as you prepare it, and the lunge closes great distance quickly. It has a stun if you miss, a worthy punishment, but upon a hit, you get a 50 damage shot, knockback, and can immediately swing again. If that swing hits, it stunlocks into a combo that will kill.

Pineapples can outheal any gun, including blunderbuss, as long as its one shot misses (and as i discussed earlier, that one shot is CQC) Using Pineapples as a gotcha for the swords weak damage just applies to the guns too, difference being, upon any shot that doesn't kill, the gun requires a reload, giving an individual a chance to escape, and eat said pineapple, bringing them back to full health. The pineapple doesn't just "counter" the sword, it counters any damage. Double gunning then counters this, fairly, giving you a fallback weapon that still requires line of sight and accurate aim.

If the sword could get ONE combo to kill, that would make it way worse than the blunderbuss, as the swords range both in front and to the sides is massive! ONE slash, and you're done for, does not sound balanced. Its stun lock and its TTK is too strong for that.
A pineapple outhealing a sword does not show a buff required for the sword, it shows a nerf required for the pineapple, or its abundance.
Even then, if you eat a pineapple as a sword combo begins, the constant M1 spam nature of the sword means that even upon healing, you will just be stunlocked again, opening you up to that final first slash that will kill you. The pineapple is not strong against the sword.
If a double gunner lands a hit on you with one gun but doesn't kill you, then misses their second shot, eating a pineapple means that you are back to full health, and they still need to reload BOTH weapons, completely opening them up. They have to land both hits, in which case, pineapple is now redundant much like with the sword.

The sword is not weak. The Blunderbuss is not overpowered. And again, this is not an E-Sport ready game, it doesn't NEED to be absolutely fine-tuned balance. Some things will be stronger in certain situations and thats the point, but in my experience, i have died plenty, plenty more to sword spam, than to blunderbusses.

@mintharp184509

I love the blunderbuss.

You absolutely did not give off that impression at all, sorry man.

The sword is weak and the pistol is outclassed by the EoR.

Agreed on the pistol. It IS the only actually unviable weapon arguably but its still completely usable and fun. Eye of Reach is superior once you learn how to quickscope, however.

But completely disagree on the sword. It really, really is not weak. It's very solid, and if you want to put the blunderbuss as the strongest weapon, sword is DEFINITELY at the same level if not a close second. You cannot deny that.

Blunderbuss has:

• One shot kill, at CQC/IMMEDIATE range (Hitreg permitting) otherwise it can be 10 - 90 damage when hit.
• Knockback on hit
• Requires reloads after every shot, so if you don't land that one shot, you're in immediate range with a required reload.

Sword has:

• Stunlock on first hit. Stops movement, slows camera, and allows for 2 more hits in the combo if not countered (e.g. blunderbombs) for a total of 75 damage. Requires one more hit to kill.
• Sword Lunge, adds tons of mobility, does 50 damage, and has knockback.
• No reloads, can be swung constantly. Whiffing a shot isn't punishing. As mentioned, landing that initial swing can lead to a 75 damage combo.

You cannot claim the Blunderbuss is overpowered while calling the sword weak. You cannot objectively look at these facts and say that the Blunderbuss needs a nerf and also say the sword needs a buff. The only weapon that needs a buff is the Flintlock imo, and even then, it does fine on its own. No weapons need a nerf, except maybe the range of the sword slash.

@mintharp184509 First step to preventing a board? Preventing the board. Safer to always have it ready than rush to the equipment box if you see someone coming.
The Blunderbuss is not as powerful as you make it out to be. Hitreg itself makes it so. I stopped using the blunderbuss unless i needed the knockback cause relying on hitreg to count every pellet every single time was unreliable. I have clips of me point blanking someone with a blunderbuss and it neither kills them, nor knocks them back very far. Wanna know what kills me later in said clips? The M1 spam sword. Its stun combined with only needing FOUR hits (three of which you get for free with the stun), no reloads, makes it very powerful.
You don't like blunderbuss, that's fine, but it is NOT a broken weapon and is not the meta. If anything, the sword is, and i will stand by that fact. We can agree to disagree, as it's clear i won't persuade you to think differently, but it is my genuine opinion your blunderbuss dislike is understandable, but unfounded.

@mintharp184509 The blunderbuss really isn't that bad, it has a niche and it fills that role perfectly. If you are unable to dupe somebody during a board, they should have the right to successfully defend their ship. If they see you coming, and know what ladder you are on, if you just climb up willy nilly, expect a blunder to prevent your board.

Boarding is the most effective meta in the game cause it takes pirates away from EVERYTHING, repairing, cannons, steering, sail management, to deal with the threat. Once you make it on their boat, with good positioning, the blunderbuss becomes spectacularly less useful (this situation is where EoR/Flintlock or Swords come into play). If you get into below deck cqc, the blunderbuss can be effective, but only if you allow it to be effective by standing in the open. Dodge and weave barrels, hide corners, throw blunderbombs to disorient. There are many counterplays.

And before this thread gets locked for personal arguments lets bring it down and circle round to the original topic; double gunning. Personally i think it's a fine playstyle, especially in a tools not rules environment. I don't personally run it (i like to swashbuckle with cutlass and flintlock, yarr) but it takes a fair degree of skill and understanding of both the weapons, and environment to effectively use. Comparitively, swords are my worst enemy more than double guns. When i have a guy swinging and swinging at me as im trying to reposition, i just have to also resort to M1 spam, and hope for the best. You can't breathe with a sword lord on your tail!
But in terms of general combat this ISN'T an E-Sport ready game and people take it waay too seriously. It's a fun arcadey pirate game, the weapons don't need to be perfectly balanced. Use what you want, people are always going to have an issue with it when they lose.

@mintharp184509 because it's a shotgun

@mintharp184509 The knockback increases per pellet, you aren't going to take full knockback from a single one, so once again, just move away from the blunder. It's a pretty straightforward process: don't get close to the thing that goes bang

Knockback used to be on all guns, which I think was nice, but I can't say I've felt the effect of the blunder knockback since they removed it from the others. I'm not saying it doesn't need changing at all, but at least take the steps you can do to get better

Also I just realised this has nothing to do with the original topic, of why this guy wants to remove an entire playstyle over a difference in skill

@mintharp184509 Because it's a shotgun...? The range is very short. If you don't want to get 1shot by someone who has basic situational awareness, try some other starts.

Y'know, like standing more than 2 feet away from the enemy...? Blunderbombs to knock them away, or, god forbid using a ranged weapon to kill them before they get closer...?

@mintharp184509 said in Double Gunning:

@gallerine5582

I know you’re a literal God at Sea of Thieves. Everything you say trumps what I say because you’re Gallerine from Australia.

Not because the blunderbuss is capable of doing the most damage plus knockback or anything. Not because the blunderbuss is the best defense against boarders. But because you’re Gallerine from Australia.

aaaaaand here we are... It was nice attempting to have a functional discussion but it seems this is your mindset around it so I'm just gonna leave it at that.

..how unfortunate

@mintharp184509 said in Double Gunning:

The blunderbuss is by far the best weapon in the game. Maybe if you played more you would understand that?

Is about 3,000 hours across 4 years enough for you? Maybe I've just got to the other side of the bell curve of the game and know the strengths and weaknesses of each and put in some time to test out how each one plays...?
But sure, keep fishing for arguments, I know what works in what situation and how to use the provided tools to my advantage

@mintharp184509 said in Double Gunning:

I look forward to killing you with my blunderbuss. Hope you play on Xbox only servers.

1. I play PC
2. Even if I played Xbox I wouldn't play on preferred controller only servers
3. I'm in Aus servers so we probably wouldn't ever find each other, and if we did one of us would be at a disadvantage because of ping
4. I don't play that often so good luck

Glad we could come to an agreement that instead of valid counter-points it came down to "I'm better than you har har"

I challenge you to 1v1 anyone who’s decent at cqc repeatedly.

You use sword / sniper they use blunderbuss / sniper and see who kills who first, repeat 10x. Do it on a ship, doesn’t matter what ship, pick one.

Sure where on a ship? In captain quarters or catching them behind stairs I will win 9/10 times.

On top deck of a gally or running around a sloop I will lose 9/10 times.

Sword+ sniper is not the best CQC weapon loadout that is blunder sniper and that is ok.

Sword Sniper is better for camping tight corners, bilging, and getting creative boarding angles using swords mobility. Sniper aids with being able to poke while ratting and having added range lethality to force them to approach you.

@mintharp184509 it's all about understanding the weapons. I used to die alot to the blunderbuss, now hardly ever even being a sword/pistol main. It's all about anticipating what your opponent is going to do.

I wouldn't be opposed to a weapon rebalance but I find most of the time a lot unfair fights are either down to hit reg, server backtracks or exploits.

Double gunning isn't very pirate'y. I think the game would be better if the first slot would be sword-locked.
Also the sword should be fixed before we start discussion about its viability (block and combo initiative bugs, see vid below).

SwordSpam

@mintharp184509 "I can assure you it’s more rare to main sword pistol."

Nice to know my playstyle and loadout is rare ;).

I used to be abit of complainer when it came to double gun but having tried a lot of the combinations out myself lately and improved my "tdm'ing" abilities it's changed my mind completely. Like @nitroxien has rightly pointed out, most who complain about x weapon are just not using the counters effectively and complain because they have lost.
The only thing I will say that should be removed is any exploits such as the animation cancel. Even though there is a hard coded 1 second timer, it still gives you time to aim improving accuracy. Exploits affect the balance, without exploits the weapons are 100% balanced with each other.

As a sword user, i would like to note that i tried double gun for a while, and its shockingly difficult to get down. I spent maby a few days struggling with it before i swapped back to sword. Its hard enough having to live around 1 single box at all times, and the need to hit all of your shots accurately constantly because you have a limited number of attacks when your away from an ammo box doesnt make it easier.

I will stick to my sword and pistol because i like having something to fall back to when i run out of ammo.

@the-old-soul800 said in Double Gunning:

@goldsmen said in Double Gunning:

Double gunners say that the sword is over powered and unfun. If both sides think the other side is over powered, that means neither is over powered.

Now that's just not true at all.
You have to remember that people are people, Golds.
And people will say anything they lose to that they aren't using is overpowered.
You can have people using the objectively most overpowered thing ever, get killed by something that's objectively underpowered, and they will genuinely feel that whatever was used to kill them is overpowered, while genuinely feeling that what they were using is not.

If both sides say the other is overpowered, that means absolutely nothing, other than that people still suck at forming "opinions".

My point is that if everything is supposidly over powered, then nothing is over powered, if sword or double gun were over powered, you could measurably prove it, but as it stands theres only claims of "its op!" and some anecdotes.

So unless some one proves that something is measurably over powered, then to me, all the claims of "the other side is op" means that they are probably equal if both sides make the very same claim.

@mintharp184509 said in Double Gunning:

@th3xr34p3r

What’s the best anti-board weapon?

Blunderbuss

What’s the best close range weapon?

Blunderbuss

What’s the best weapon for combat aboard ships?

Blunderbuss

What’s the best weapon for PvE?

Blunderbuss

Actually it's

• Blunder, but sword can do just as well since you don't have to reload
• Blunder, but sword can do just as well since you don't have to reload, PLUS how convenient you set up your examples to directly exclude ANY long/mid range combat where pistol and sniper instantly become better. For long/mid/underwater combat: pistol/sniper
• Any weapon is good aboard ships if you know how to use it
• Sword cause you don't have to reload and you can hit multiple enemies at once. It will stun most skeletons, and provides mobility against the enemies you can't stun.

@mintharp184509 said in Double Gunning:

@sammyr0cks said in Double Gunning:

I use dg probably 90% of the time.

DG isn’t OP, sword isn’t OP.

Lol then why use it 90% of the time?

Have you ever heard of using something because "it's just more fun"...?

I could say the same about the cutlass but I don't, I learn to adapt to it, improvise using my tools available, and overcome the problem by getting better.

Double gunning is a comfortable loadout for me, you got a blunder for anti-boarder defense and a sniper for kegs, boarders that got past the blunder or just taking shots at the enemy if you can't hit cannons at the moment

Sword can replace any of them yes, but removing an entire gameplay style simply because "you don't like it" or suck at defending against it is not a valid reason or big enough issue to really change.

get rid of double gunning. why? Because I don't want to go down the route of "it's not a bug, it's a feature!"

@goldsmen said in Double Gunning:

Double gunners say that the sword is over powered and unfun. If both sides think the other side is over powered, that means neither is over powered.

Now that's just not true at all.
You have to remember that people are people, Golds.
And people will say anything they lose to that they aren't using is overpowered.
You can have people using the objectively most overpowered thing ever, get killed by something that's objectively underpowered, and they will genuinely feel that whatever was used to kill them is overpowered, while genuinely feeling that what they were using is not.

If both sides say the other is overpowered, that means absolutely nothing, other than that people still suck at forming "opinions".

Sword is overpowered and no fun for the game.

It’s opinion, not fact. It is not OP, you need to learn how to counter it, like the sword