Why do people buy this game if they don’t want to interact with others? The concept of that is mind boggling to me, I simply cannot understand it. RARE has made it very clear from the beginning that they want Sea of Thieves to focus on player interactions, their policy is even “Tools not rules”. Despite this, new forums posts that demand a passive/PVE mode and new people that also demand the same thing pop up everyday. Why? RARE did not advertise their game as a PVE experience devoid of player interaction nor do they want Sea of Thieves to become that, and yet people are still trying to change the thing they worked on for YEARS. [mod edit].
It's a pirate game...
@chaoslord10 sagte in It's a pirate game...:
@lem0n-curry Very nearly every ship I encounter is out for loot or to ruin your gaming experience. Just now one snuck up on me and started shooting while I was fishing. One of them climbed onto my ship. I got on game chat and said “I have nothing but supplies, it’s yours if you want it. No need to shoot” they kept firing.
I'd have killed you, take your fish and supplies, but not sink you.
Did they just kill and rob you ir did they mindlessly sink your ship?@exeternautical said in It's a pirate game...:
Why do people buy this game if they don’t want to interact with others? The concept of that is mind boggling to me, I simply cannot understand it. RARE has made it very clear from the beginning that they want Sea of Thieves to focus on player interactions, their policy is even “Tools not rules”. Despite this, new forums posts that demand a passive/PVE mode and new people that also demand the same thing pop up everyday. Why? RARE did not advertise their game as a PVE experience devoid of player interaction nor do they want Sea of Thieves to become that, and yet people are still trying to change the thing they worked on for YEARS. I guess some people are simply selfish, stupid, or a combination of both.
Maybe there'd be less call for it (I dont support it) if there were more players who could think of more than one way to "interact" with others.
@bugaboo-bill said in It's a pirate game...:
@chaoslord10 sagte in It's a pirate game...:
@lem0n-curry Very nearly every ship I encounter is out for loot or to ruin your gaming experience. Just now one snuck up on me and started shooting while I was fishing. One of them climbed onto my ship. I got on game chat and said “I have nothing but supplies, it’s yours if you want it. No need to shoot” they kept firing.
I'd have killed you, take your fish and supplies, but not sink you.
Did they just kill and rob you ir did they mindlessly sink your ship?Thats kinda worse really, at least a sunken boat gets new supplies... also, particularly if youre alone thats not just killing but several times to offload a boat with even starter supplies.
@natiredgals sagte in It's a pirate game...:
@bugaboo-bill said in It's a pirate game...:
@chaoslord10 sagte in It's a pirate game...:
@lem0n-curry Very nearly every ship I encounter is out for loot or to ruin your gaming experience. Just now one snuck up on me and started shooting while I was fishing. One of them climbed onto my ship. I got on game chat and said “I have nothing but supplies, it’s yours if you want it. No need to shoot” they kept firing.
I'd have killed you, take your fish and supplies, but not sink you.
Did they just kill and rob you ir did they mindlessly sink your ship?Thats kinda worse really, at least a sunken boat gets new supplies... also, particularly if youre alone thats not just killing but several times to offload a boat with even starter supplies.
He can scuttle if he want to.
I am sure i cannot or won't take all supplies and if he was stocked up very well he would for sure have more left than on a new ship.
I dont sink them, because...
They can continue fishing, digging, riddling... there.
They need not sail the whole way back to where they were.
I can comeback if they are unaware again and they maybe wont before ragequit.
I wont steal totems, pendants, sb gems, they arent worth anything for me.I'm the most polite Pirate ever, trust me.
Or wait better do not :-)Nah, really i'm pvp'ing, but i have yet to betray someone or spawnkill someone over and over. I dont do this!
I'm mercifull with new pirates and allways a polite player.
I respect others doing Tales, but if they shoot first or are in the way, i cannot trust they astay peacefull.
Attack is often the most efficient way to defend oneself.
I got taught some lessons on my way to PLA10 and i need to adapt a little bit. Not my fault, but to not react to the audience and adapt a little is self destruction.
Those who fought well get all my respect.All open for real allies, but the reality is cruel.
@natiredgals No one said dont voice your opinions but just because he posted hid idea it dosent mean we cant say what we think and its funny the way you see those answers, the way you ignore everything makes me laugh.
I guess thats the only way fight against someone with valid points.you'd make a lot more sense if you included the context of what you're replying to. What am I supposed to be ignoring? Who am I supposedly fighting?
Ya know what? Nevermind I'm good.
@natiredgals First page several replies of you and others that i agree with.
"Hur dur its a pirate game"
"I see alot of words but they dont answer the problem"
Well they are.@faceyourdemon said in It's a pirate game...:
@natiredgals First page several replies of you and others that i agree with.
"Hur dur its a pirate game"
"I see alot of words but they dont answer the problem"
Well they are.oh, that. Whatever dude. If you're one to use "ItZ a pIERat Gaem!!!!1111!!!" to excuse all behavior and it offends you that some of us hold ourselves to a higher standard, well its no concern of mine.
@natiredgals As i answered you in another post and as some people answered you here most "PVP players" most of the time do PVE and when they see opportunity they might strike and they might befriend to them, its dynamic.
The only bad excuse to be "pirate" is when people are being toxic the true meaning of toxicity not when someone "sinks your ship" cant stand those cupcakes, when players are racict and using foul language. or you own crew mate just toss off your treasure to the water and drop the anchor for no reason just to troll that is toxic and if someone say its Sea of THIEVES and pirates did worse it dosent matter, that behevior is not welcome to the game and in this case you just report.Bruh, I sink a fair amount of ships that randomly attack me, almost none of them have any loot ever. Puts a hole in the whole notion that all the pvp boats out there are sailing around doing pve all the time and just occasionally striking targets of opportunity. Thats what I do. And I've almost always got something on board. So it doesn't add up if 90 percent of the ships that attack me have no loot. If they were doing what I do they'd have it when I sunk them.
Either way dont lump me with people who say that sinking ships is toxic because i've never said that. And with that have a nice day.
@natiredgals said in It's a pirate game...:
Bruh, I sink a fair amount of ships that randomly attack me, almost none of them have any loot ever. Puts a hole in the whole notion that all the pvp boats out there are sailing around doing pve all the time and just occasionally striking targets of opportunity. Thats what I do. And I've almost always got something on board. So it doesn't add up if 90 percent of the ships that attack me have no loot. If they were doing what I do they'd have it when I sunk them.
Either way dont lump me with people who say that sinking ships is toxic because i've never said that. And with that have a nice day.
So what if they don't always have something on board? Of course the sensible thing is to have the least possible to lose when engaging someone, I agree with you there.
I often end up going double or nothing to intercept a ship before they sell, at the risk of losing what I have. It's part of the thrill. Of course if there is an outpost between me and a target ship, I might as well sell a few things in case before.
If you get attacked by a ship and they have nothing, who's to say they didn't just finish an athena, or simply been questing for a while, sold it all and came to you after? Who's to say they didn't stash things first? Can you fault people to try to play smart?
@bloodybil said in It's a pirate game...:
@natiredgals said in It's a pirate game...:
Bruh, I sink a fair amount of ships that randomly attack me, almost none of them have any loot ever. Puts a hole in the whole notion that all the pvp boats out there are sailing around doing pve all the time and just occasionally striking targets of opportunity. Thats what I do. And I've almost always got something on board. So it doesn't add up if 90 percent of the ships that attack me have no loot. If they were doing what I do they'd have it when I sunk them.
Either way dont lump me with people who say that sinking ships is toxic because i've never said that. And with that have a nice day.
So what if they don't always have something on board? Of course the sensible thing is to have the least possible to lose when engaging someone, I agree with you there.
I often end up going double or nothing to intercept a ship before they sell, at the risk of losing what I have. It's part of the thrill. Of course if there is an outpost between me and a target ship, I might as well sell a few things in case.
If you get attacked by a ship and they have nothing, who's to say they didn't just finish an athena, or simply been questing for a while, sold it all and came to you after? Who's to say they didn't stash things first? Can you fault people to try to play smart?
Sorry man hypotheticals aside when I see guys up in here swearing up and down how boring and skilless pve is, and complaining or agreeing with those that theres not enough loot on players ships, remember when they all looked the christmas gift voyages in the mouth and begged for it to remain permanent? Yea I'm sure they're all really doing pve all the time... Sailing around with a voyage on the table for mileage doesn't count.
Have nice day man. We're not gonna agree on this.
@bloodybil exactly when I sink people looking for loot I will usually keep their loot on board until we hop servers for more ships give thme a chance to fight back or come and get it but most of the time they rage quit and leave the game completely. Also just going after ships has gotten me my athen a steals we have found quite a few ships just finishing athenas and we make sure they can't turn in what so ever. Also people with tall tale loot if the have totems or keys sometimes they are sellable and count as a coffer so we take those too and turn them in.
@elevenpanda7518 said in It's a pirate game...:
The its a pirate game is a bad argument because it’s still a game. It doesn’t make sense business wise or even game developer wise to drive away a large player base from your game.
wouldn't make sense if it wasn't a core, advertised part of the game itself. If you don't wan't to play a pirate game, don't play Sea of Thieves I guess. If you don't like gun violence, don't play PUBG, it's a shooting game. If you don't like car chases, don't buy Need for Speed, it's a racing game.
It all boils down to why you are playing this particular game. If you are playing to reach P.L you are playing for the wrong reasons. The game is meant to be enjoyed.
if you want pvp there is tons to be had, if you want pve its fully possible you just have to play "paranoid" for lack of a better term.
the game is what you want it to be, if you are gonna play this game there are tons of ways to lose your loot and its not just from other players. if the kraken sinks you who are you to complain about?
forget there is another player behind the pirate and just play the game for what it is, a beautifully designed, fully immersive game that essentially lets you do what you want.
I love this game simply because you just play, there is a great sense of elation when you cash in and a great sense of loss at every turn. embrace it, so few games give this sense of dynamic, in my opinion, the risk is real, the rewards are real, its fabulous.
I sail solo and aim to have zero player interaction, not 100% avoidable, but it keeps this game from just being like all the others, hey you played a round heres your reward. you could play this game for a couple hours and get nothing if it all goes wrong.
im tired of the catering to the "everyone is a winner, thanks for playing" mentality. work for it whether that work is fighting others or fighting to avoid them.
@bloodybil first I agree in that aspect but I’m merely pointing out that in its current format it drives away players which drives away money which is counterproductive to game development and business. Why this game may be PVP server wise it plays as a quest based game not an arena or battle royal game so it’s a deterrent to play a game for three hours to lose everything to a troll. Even grand theft auto five which this is more like than pubg has safezones and short mission times and there are a lot of trolls in that game but it’s less of a deterrent because of shorter missions and safezones. So if you enjoy the game because your good at it good for you. I’m just saying I can see why players leave and I’m willing to make slight changes if it keeps up the player count and keeps developers developing new content
@elevenpanda7518 personally I think the only thing that should be untouchable by pvp is tall tales if people get driven away from the game because they lost 3 hours of Athena loot that's their fault for having people that can't defend the boat on their ship.
@natiredgals said in It's a pirate game...:
@bugaboo-bill said in It's a pirate game...:
@chaoslord10 sagte in It's a pirate game...:
@lem0n-curry Very nearly every ship I encounter is out for loot or to ruin your gaming experience. Just now one snuck up on me and started shooting while I was fishing. One of them climbed onto my ship. I got on game chat and said “I have nothing but supplies, it’s yours if you want it. No need to shoot” they kept firing.
I'd have killed you, take your fish and supplies, but not sink you.
Did they just kill and rob you ir did they mindlessly sink your ship?Thats kinda worse really, at least a sunken boat gets new supplies... also, particularly if youre alone thats not just killing but several times to offload a boat with even starter supplies.
Sometimes if I see a ship and they have supplies I will kill them when they spawn and take their supplies if they decide not to fight back I leave them alone and continue to take their supplies, I honestly think it saves quite a bit of time to just take someone else's materials than stopping at a skull fort or barrels.
@fast-bike94 said in It's a pirate game...:
@elevenpanda7518 personally I think the only thing that should be untouchable by pvp is tall tales if people get driven away from the game because they lost 3 hours of Athena loot that's their fault for having people that can't defend the boat on their ship.
I mean... some of the "fault"/responsibility, whatever also belongs with those who attacked them instead of just getting thier own. Nobody is playing with a gun to their head being ordered to play without any thought of other players experiences.
There's no actual requirement to attack other players, you know that, right?
@elevenpanda7518 not with loot for tall tales sure they could make separate servers for tall tales as there is no point in stealing it other than someone's gold hoarder skull
@elevenpanda7518 also to touch on the balancing thing this game doesn't have any unfair advantage as far as weapons go they all do the same damage it mostly just cones down to experience vs no experience.
@BloodyBil
like it if you have loot when attacking others.
Yesterday we hoist Reaper Flag, because we saw another and were curious if they come.
We were doing an Athena. All the loot on board, or nearly all, i dont remember exactly, maybe had alredy turned in a cheast of sorrows and a mermaidgem. Whatever, we had some loot and we didnt care.
Fought of 2 attacking ships, one need to go offline and later got sunk before we got the Athena by another ship when we were not watching out anymore and were busy digging chests on old faithfull.
We called it a day, but weren't sour about the lost loot or the abandoned Athena. I'm anyway A10 now, but the one who suggested it to hoist the repaer is very new, level 23 -0-0-0 and the first thing he said was: loosing doesnt matter, loot doesn't matter, dying also doesnt matter that much :)
That said...@ElevenPanda7518 @norloc
I even agree to that "it's a pirate game" is a bad argument.
Monkey Island is also a pirate game.
I think what @Fast-Bike94 and @FaceYourDemon and many more want to say is, it's a Multiplayer PvPvE sandbox game and in the first line it tries or is about pirate'y player interactions, cooperative and/ or competetive.
And the "uncertainty" about the other players and what stories happen because of that is a core design of the game and the main thing what it is about.
Winning, loosing or progressing further is somewhat that takes place, but is seconded.
Therefore it's horizontal progression and only about cosmetics.
Therefore it's a session based game and nothing gamechanging carries over to another session.
Therefore it's only 6 Ships per Server and not 1-5 or 6-12 or whatever number you imagine.
I remember exactly the Alpha what was about the correct numbers for a sever and what they wanted.
Nor calm seas all the time, but sometimes, neither a player encounter on every island.
And also because of 6 Outposts (ok 7 because of Morrows Peak now).
The ones demanding more ships per server are people who want more interaction. I think mostly PvP interaction.
6 Ships per server is to balance the PvPvE experience.
Sure if you focus on this or that more, you want stuff that promotes this or that more.
I think it's very well balanced about this.
Same for the different ship's speed and utility, their advantages and disadvantages.
And they can not please everybody because of that balancing.
Rare put a lot of thinking into this.
Imho they did it very well.
The pure playerkiller won't be perfectly satisfied as the pure achievement hunter who want to grind without any disturbance.
It's really for the mixed mode sandbox players.We all do PvE and welcome player interaction, some prefer coop and Alliances and others prefer to PvP.
We all loose some day and we all win another day, sometimes it's calm and maybe a little bit boring, but another day we experience a good story on our jounrey in the Sea of Thieves.Isn't it more about having fun playing, cooperating, competing and very much seconded if we win, loose, or have progressed?
To me it is.
I for sure dont want to loose all the time, but honestly i also dont want to win all the time and the whole progression thing happens anyway.
You cannot prevent progressing in this game and isn't it completely seconded when you become this or that cosmetic, but way more important how you got it and what stories you experienced on the way to that cosmetic or title or whatever.To me it is. I really hope all i meet have fun playing the game and dont ragequit.
But i'm honest i also ragequitted 2 or three times. Also because of a spawncamper, but not only because of the spawncamper, but also toxic talk and insults.
One time i know for sure was because of the 5th! vulcano erruption in a row before the Devils Roar nerf XD
I ran out of planks, UNFAIR :D
It's a story i can laugh about today.
btw i remember some "frustrating" moments i can laugh over today and they are all little stories i remember i experienced in the Sea of Thieves.
Not that bad at all, and then all the stories of success, wins and epic fights...
Like yesterday, man what a battle we had and how unlock or unaware we were and barely prepared to PvP at all while having 20 cannonballs, 10 planks only, no food and maybe 2 banana's left and we circled around and tried to escape and find some supplies and then we hit our own keg left in the water, when one of us missed their ship before...
Anchor down, mast down, 4 holes, one aboard trying to get some supplies..... A horror scenario, but what can i tell you, we sunk them XD
They were sure we sunk when i hit the keg in the water, but we didnt, we somehow managed it and i shot all the 20 cammballs in the right moment killed one at their cannons, killed the second at the helm and shot the rest into it and sunk their ship.
One killed another in the water with the next keg on it's way.
A little lucky maybe :-)
I was sure we lost when i hit the keg in the water, the enemies in the rear, the ship anchored and damaged with low supplies, but we did it. Great story!That's why im playing.
And stories loosing are at least 3 days later worth a laugh :-)
Btw the end of the story is above, we got sunk by another ship an hour later, loosing all the loot and cancelled an Athena because it was just too late and we had a blast playing.Good winds and have fun.
@fast-bike94 yes and no a 4 person crew has a unfair advantage to a solo or double that’s not to say an experienced player can’t take down a 4 person crew but it’s a strong disadvantage. So maybe make a solo ship faster I know it doesn’t make sense sail wise but I’m just trying to spitball ideas also it’s hard to get experience if your new and are just constantly getting sunk by people. Look I enjoy the game I just want to keep the updates and expansions coming beyond a year and I’m afraid the drop in players due to stupid stuff can be avoided like if I have a crew of four I don’t engage solos unless they engage me. I don’t exspect all player to play this way so why not developers find a way to help new comers or solo people
@eva1977 Double gunning is next to impossible now with the new update. But you take that risk before a tall tales because everyone has a chance to steal from everyone else. Thats what makes this game unique and different from every other game. The whole point of this game is to be a pirate. If we can't be pirates why would we play it? If they did put in a passive mode you shouldn't be able to do quests or pick up anything that you can sell. if you turn off passive mode and put loot on your ship if you turn it back on the loot should just fall through the ship. Because if people could still have loot with them while in passive mode the game would honestly have no point.
@elevenpanda7518 said in It's a pirate game...:
@fast-bike94 yes and no a 4 person crew has a unfair advantage to a solo or double that’s not to say an experienced player can’t take down a 4 person crew but it’s a strong disadvantage. So maybe make a solo ship faster I know it doesn’t make sense sail wise but I’m just trying to spitball ideas also it’s hard to get experience if your new and are just constantly getting sunk by people. Look I enjoy the game I just want to keep the updates and expansions coming beyond a year and I’m afraid the drop in players due to stupid stuff can be avoided like if I have a crew of four I don’t engage solos unless they engage me. I don’t exspect all player to play this way so why not developers find a way to help new comers or solo people
It's not an unfair advantage if you choose not to use the same tools at your disposal. What is preventing you from playing in a crew of 4 too? Everyone has access to the same weapons, tools and strategies. If you play by yourself against 2 people in a tennis match, is it the game itself that is unfair and unbalanced or the way you choose to play it?
And who says the playerbase is going down? It's all assumptions. Funny how people say the population is good and healthy to justify crossplay, but it's dwindling and going down when it comes to justify PVE servers.
@bugaboo-bill said in It's a pirate game...:
@BloodyBil
like it if you have loot when attacking others.
Yesterday we hoist Reaper Flag, because we saw another and were curious if they come.
We were doing an Athena. All the loot on board, or nearly all, i dont remember exactly, maybe had alredy turned in a cheast of sorrows and a mermaidgem. Whatever, we had some loot and we didnt care.
Fought of 2 attacking ships, one need to go offline and later got sunk before we got the Athena by another ship when we were not watching out anymore and were busy digging chests on old faithfull.
We called it a day, but weren't sour about the lost loot or the abandoned Athena. I'm anyway A10 now, but the one who suggested it to hoist the repaer is very new, level 23 -0-0-0 and the first thing he said was: loosing doesnt matter, loot doesn't matter, dying also doesnt matter that much :)Exactly, people take loot, loss and win a bit too seriously. I've lost 3 reaper mercenary quests worth of loot while going for a ship I knew had at least 2 forts worth of loot, and lost. Such is life, I remembered key mistakes my crew and I did, lessons were learned! The harder you fall the more you remember those lessons.
"that way some people which feel the seas are unfair can have this option when going about their business without wanting to be bothered. Because of lack of friends or experience etc?"
Oh, they FEEL the seas are unfair? They have access to the exact same tools and mechanics everybody else does... They simply just have to learn to use them effectively... Like everyone else does, when they first start playing this game. It may take some time, you may lose some treasure, but that's just what beginners have to deal with, we've all been there, no exceptions.
"Because of lack of friends or experience etc?"
We all have to start at some point... My first times playing Team Fortress 2 were brutal and harsh, but that doesn't mean the developers have to protect me from the game, i just have to learn and adapt... Like everything that lives, ever.
I mean if the genre of the game isn't to your liking, there are plenty other games to play, you don't have to play this game.
No player needs to be sheltered from the challenges this game provides, as those challenges are the entire point and purpose of the game, it is what makes this game, a game.
"I know the seas will be much calmer but then again its all the same when people are leaving and not coming back due to negative experiences."
The only negative experiences i've had in this game are the people that refuse to communicate and also the people that have obsessive compulsions to be toxic, like constant yelling and swearing etc... And that is a community issue, not a game issue.
"There is a difference between "pirating" and kicking someone when they are down."
Actually, there isn't... Historically speaking, pirates main targets were harmless merchant ships who couldn't defend themselves... AKA kicking someone when they are down...
"Even pirates had some honor."
Pirates had no honor... They were ruthless opportunists who adhered to the logic of profit, nothing more, nothing less... Some pirates, like "Blackbeard" i believe, had a few cases of exceptions where they did mindblowingly illogical things, but those things only served to strengthen their infamy, which in turn made them more feared by merchants, therefore making robbing them easier.
That being said, this isn't a game about historical pirates, it's about romanticized cartoon pirates... Quite a different story... Some people might want to roleplay as a cursed pirate who doesn't rob ships, but is forced by a mysterious power, to be a scourge upon the seas, etc... And seeing as the game is all about freedom as it's a sandbox game, they have every right to do whatever they want, as long as they follow Rare's pirate code.
"Not saying i want restrictions on everything but sometimes unwritten rules are not respected and technically there is no fixing that aside from in game restrictions."
What unwritten rules? Who decided these were rules one has to follow? We follow Rare's pirate code, very much written rules.
https://compass-ssl.xboxlive.com/assets/15/82/15826adc-e3dc-4c91-9c9f-49960ca2b2a4.jpg?n=Rare_Parchment_D_01a_LS (002).jpg@eva1977 No, it's a fact you don't like. People have taken the time to get better than you at this game and they are rewarded justly, while you complain, everyone else is learning from their mistakes and improving their strategy and skill. That's on you. Don't suggest ruining the game for PVPers because YOU refuse to get better.
@tart-tee said in It's a pirate game...:
@eva1977 No, it's a fact you don't like. People have taken the time to get better than you at this game and they are rewarded justly, while you complain, everyone else is learning from their mistakes and improving their strategy and skill. That's on you. Don't suggest ruining the game for PVPers because YOU refuse to get better.
How do you lords of pvp manage to turn "git gud" into so many words? Real talk tho...The game's not that deep. Its not like anyone really develops massive skill over another player. The combat for players h as always been very basic because it was never meant to be a hard core game. Social interactions like you said... you know theres more than one type of those right??
Problem is when hypercompetitive types talk about learning the game and getting better it mostly means finding where the game is broken and exploiting it. Most people don't play games that way. And this game was never meant to be played that way, i wager. Same reason that doublegun, even tho it was around forever didnt blow up til after the pc player population doubled. (before anyone screams discrimination, its just fact, and not all pc players exploited it)
I dont get how people dont understand that hypercompetitiveness in games like this drive more people away than it retains. Its not good for the game. And being so angry (and dont bother denying it, your very tone is offended and angry) that someone posted what the OP did is a weird thing man. Why so mad?
@norloc said in It's a pirate game...:
It all boils down to why you are playing this particular game. If you are playing to reach P.L you are playing for the wrong reasons. The game is meant to be enjoyed.
if you want pvp there is tons to be had, if you want pve its fully possible you just have to play "paranoid" for lack of a better term.
the game is what you want it to be, if you are gonna play this game there are tons of ways to lose your loot and its not just from other players. if the kraken sinks you who are you to complain about?
forget there is another player behind the pirate and just play the game for what it is, a beautifully designed, fully immersive game that essentially lets you do what you want.
I love this game simply because you just play, there is a great sense of elation when you cash in and a great sense of loss at every turn. embrace it, so few games give this sense of dynamic, in my opinion, the risk is real, the rewards are real, its fabulous.
I sail solo and aim to have zero player interaction, not 100% avoidable, but it keeps this game from just being like all the others, hey you played a round heres your reward. you could play this game for a couple hours and get nothing if it all goes wrong.
im tired of the catering to the "everyone is a winner, thanks for playing" mentality. work for it whether that work is fighting others or fighting to avoid them.
This guy, or gal, gets it.
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