Destiny 2 is garbage because Bungie appeased to the mainstream noise.
Stick to your vision, onviously listen to everybody, constructive criticism will improve the game, but in the end the decission is yours.
I hope RARE doesn't knee-jerk redesign this game.
@toastywrath said in I hope RARE doesn't knee-jerk redesign this game.:
@kashaarafall said in I hope RARE doesn't knee-jerk redesign this game.:
I'm confused by this, so people asking for different quest variety are the bad people? Is that what you're implying?
People who want things like (death cost, ship upgrades, safe zones, solo only servers and exc... none of these things belong in this game and they are CONSTANTLY asked for by players who had a bad experience due to ignorance.
That is simply not true and honestly very rude. Some of us love the game but don't like PvP. I CAN do PvP if I have to but I don't WANT to which is the difference. I don't enjoy killing people. I don't enjoy camping Outposts to prey on single players. I don't enjoy it. I'm not ignorant. It's a part of the game I don't enjoy. Don't be rude and don't be insulting.
I don't understand why people in this thread are so vehemently opposed to giving more options that appeal to different players. Your gameplay experience will be completely unchanged. You can still Outpost camp, blow each other to pieces, etc. The folks here are just saying to give an option for people who DON'T want to do PvP. It will not interfere with your gameplay experience at all. I was already driven off the game last night by people insisting that unless I want to die a million times, I should just give up and stop playing.
Why does it bother you so much to see other people play the game in a way differently than you do, especially if they are on a different server and not even a part of your gameplay? Why does it bother you so much that other people don't have the same interests as you?
@helen the community shapes this sort of game. If that's how they want to be and the devs let them then it's just being justified as them being "pirates".
Lol it's like doing merchant quests. If you steal the loot it's so much less than what the quest taker gets. I take these quests for that fact. Lol they can have fun selling the chickens off for like 40 gold.
This game is designed to create tension when holding treasure and being on the lookout for pirates. PvP is the core of this game. If it wasn't we would have NPC ships. If you dont want to group and dont want to PvP you have to get smarter about piloting the sloop and using its advantages to avoid combat all together. While some stoop to insults immediately and say something the wrong way it doesnt mean they are entirely wrong. Once the respawns are fixed I believe you will have a better experience. They designed it for a player interaction every 15 mins and unfortunately if a pirate feels like it its more like once a minute until someone quits the game.
@helen I can only speak for myself, but what I'm saying isn't that people shouldn't be given more options or options that appeal to different play styles. It's that there is a fundamental design to this game that revolves around the concept of always being at risk from other players. If you strip that out, you have to redesign much of the other core mechanics to support the change. It's not just as simple as saying create PvE servers.
I'm all for them giving people more options, PvE servers, fishing, safe zone servers, whatever you want. But there's limited resources, limited budget and limited time to implement new features and content. Focusing on something that goes against their core design paradigm would likely be disastrous for their long term game plan.
Think about it this way... add PvE servers. Those servers have only friendly players. Now progression becomes faster for everyone because they can work together or there's no threat of losing your loot. Now the core progression mechanic has to be reevaluated. Now the shop costs have to be reevaluated. Now consider that the only other ships are players. If there's no PvP, there's much less reason to even have cannons on your ships. Now you have to consider adding NPC ships that can attack you. Now you have to think about how those NPC ships will show up, when they will show up and if they will attack your ship when you are anchored at an island. It's a huge AI programming hurdle.
Again, all of it can be done. But if the core design focus of the game was an online world where you are always at risk and you are asking they change that, there's just not enough time, resources and funding to support such a significant change. It's not a judgment over your play style or about wanting/not-wanting options. It's a recognition that games are a business and cannot be sustained if they have to appeal to everyone.
@helen said in I hope RARE doesn't knee-jerk redesign this game.:
@toastywrath said in I hope RARE doesn't knee-jerk redesign this game.:
@kashaarafall said in I hope RARE doesn't knee-jerk redesign this game.:
I'm confused by this, so people asking for different quest variety are the bad people? Is that what you're implying?
People who want things like (death cost, ship upgrades, safe zones, solo only servers and exc... none of these things belong in this game and they are CONSTANTLY asked for by players who had a bad experience due to ignorance.
That is simply not true and honestly very rude. Some of us love the game but don't like PvP. I CAN do PvP if I have to but I don't WANT to which is the difference. I don't enjoy killing people. I don't enjoy camping Outposts to prey on single players. I don't enjoy it. I'm not ignorant. It's a part of the game I don't enjoy. Don't be rude and don't be insulting.
You are clearly ignorant of the definition of ignorance which is ironic other wise you wouldn’t be offended. “A lack knowledge or information” so calm down cause I wasn’t insulting anyone.
Also the rest of your comment solidifies the idea that you simply don’t know enough about the game. And that isn’t a bad thing.
For one you don’t have to partake in any of those things. I also am not a huge fan of outpost campers but I’ve never fallen for it. Why? Because I use my eyes, ears, and the peice of grey matter that makes it all work to prevent those people from getting me.
Let me throw some facts at you.
Regardless of enemy player skill or intentions if you play smart and follow simple rules (even solo) you will never encounter PvP if you don’t want to. I frequently go HOURS avoiding people in a solo sloop before deciding I want some action and allow people to get close.The beautiful thing about this game is in its current state you can do what ever you want. Wana do just voyages and not combat? Sweet do that and I can tell you how. Want to only do combat and not voyages? Then do it. Or you can mix both.
But these people saying that they need “special areas” or servers to avoid a CORE CONCEPT OF THE GAME. Is ridiculous. Don’t operate under the fallacy that engaging in combat when you don’t want to or being caught in traps is anyone else’s fault but your own. And don’t ask for changes to a core concept of a game YOU DIDNT help create simply because you don’t know how to deal with it. Educate yourself or stop playing.
@alymon said in I hope RARE doesn't knee-jerk redesign this game.:
@helen I can only speak for myself, but what I'm saying isn't that people shouldn't be given more options or options that appeal to different play styles. It's that there is a fundamental design to this game that revolves around the concept of always being at risk from other players. If you strip that out, you have to redesign much of the other core mechanics to support the change. It's not just as simple as saying create PvE servers.
I'm all for them giving people more options, PvE servers, fishing, safe zone servers, whatever you want. But there's limited resources, limited budget and limited time to implement new features and content. Focusing on something that goes against their core design paradigm would likely be disastrous for their long term game plan.
Think about it this way... add PvE servers. Those servers have only friendly players. Now progression becomes faster for everyone because they can work together or there's no threat of losing your loot. Now the core progression mechanic has to be reevaluated. Now the shop costs have to be reevaluated. Now consider that the only other ships are players. If there's no PvP, there's much less reason to even have cannons on your ships. Now you have to consider adding NPC ships that can attack you. Now you have to think about how those NPC ships will show up, when they will show up and if they will attack your ship when you are anchored at an island. It's a huge AI programming hurdle.
Again, all of it can be done. But if the core design focus of the game was an online world where you are always at risk and you are asking they change that, there's just not enough time, resources and funding to support such a significant change. It's not a judgment over your play style or about wanting/not-wanting options. It's a recognition that games are a business and cannot be sustained if they have to appeal to everyone.
I doubt that it would be too resource intensive for them to apply different rulesets to different instances of the game. Add a safe zone check box and drop people with it checked into safe zone instances.
Agree with the OP 100%. Rare has a real gem here. A diamond in the rough. I'm okay with a few more content pieces added, but some people are calling for drastic changes like removing PVP.
The absolutely WORST thing they could do is remove open PVP by adding PVP zones or flagging offending Pkers. The open PVP aspect is critical to this game and it would fall apart without it.
@timidobserver I think you missed my point. They'd have to reevaluate every other game mechanic too. Progression, gold, costs, AI, NPC ships... all these things would have to be reconsidered.
@alymon For a full PvE server yeh, but I don't see a need to evaluate anything for a safe zone server.
@helen said in I hope RARE doesn't knee-jerk redesign this game.:
I don't understand why people in this thread are so vehemently opposed to giving more options that appeal to different players. Your gameplay experience will be completely unchanged. You can still Outpost camp, blow each other to pieces, etc. The folks here are just saying to give an option for people who DON'T want to do PvP. It will not interfere with your gameplay experience at all. I was already driven off the game last night by people insisting that unless I want to die a million times, I should just give up and stop playing.
Why does it bother you so much to see other people play the game in a way differently than you do, especially if they are on a different server and not even a part of your gameplay? Why does it bother you so much that other people don't have the same interests as you?
Because they are unnecessary changes for people who are too lazy to learn the real way to avoid the things they don’t like. If you really knew as much about the game as you claim you wouldn’t be posting this nonsense...if you’d like some help ASK instead of complaining about nothing esentialy...you can’t blame anyone but yourself for dying constantly.
Amen. If you don’t want PvP or PK - buy carebear adventure island or My Little Pony. Pre release it was advertised as an open world PvP any time anywhere PVP which is exactly how pirates behave.
Why people are shocked by this is astounding as is anyone who is surprised there are griefers or corpse campers. There have been in every Online MP game I have ever played going back 20+ years.
From this perspective rare delivered exactly what they said they would. This was buyer beware and they are not responsible for idiot people that do not pay attention, read up on products before they buy, or bother to try a beta when available.
Rare- don’t do it. Don’t kowtow to the casuals and whiners who want beige, no risk all reward games. We don’t want them here ruining it for the rest of us.
Viva la piracy! Take what you can.... give nothing back!
@timidobserver said in I hope RARE doesn't knee-jerk redesign this game.:
@alymon For a full PvE server yeh, but I don't see a need to evaluate anything for a safe zone server.
They did consider safe zones already. And there's still quite a bit of work and resources that would have to go into evaluating it as an option. In a business of limited resources, that's a pretty big gamble for them. If they get it wrong, the PvP people will be angry and the PvE people will still be angry.
Again, I'm not saying they can't do it. I'm just saying that you have to understand that nothing in software development (especially with a community like the gaming community) is never that simple and it's a gamble to make that goes against the core mechanic of how they designed the game.
This is one of the easiest game to avoid PVP. I dont' get the complaints. If you see another ship at port, don't go there, go to another. If you see one on the horizon, turn around. Don't leave your ship alone without your comrades on board as a lookout.
If you are being spawn camped, scuttle your ship. But I haven't seen a situation yet where I didn't knowingly get myself into a stupid situation where I could be killed by other players. Don't go into a fight alone or without being prepared.
It's easy to avoid other players and even more easy to avoid PVP. I've seen plenty of games where PVP sucks, SoT isn't one of them. Rare has done an amazing job of making it work well and work fairly.
@klikhizz said in I hope RARE doesn't knee-jerk redesign this game.:
I don't think anyone really wants a 'massive' redesign of the game ... anyone that is taking the effort to post here has enough interest in the game to want to see it improve. As such they don't want a massive redesign.
They may want certain things adjusted and Rare should look at that ... see if it's 1 feasible in the game as is, 2 how much effort would be required to adjust the issue in question, and 3 if making the adjustment would detrimentally impact other aspects of the game and by how much.
As has been pointed out already what any game company will ultimately pay the most attention to will be the metrics they gather behind the scenes ... what are people actually DOING in the game and is that what they wanted. If they see a major upswing in PvP and a massive drop off of ... say actual PvE loot gathering then there is a problem in the design. Talked to a crew yesterday that never gets voyages and is in it 100% for the PvP if they can steal a chest or item here and there great ... other than that they don't care ... nothing to get but cosmetics so no reason to get gold anyway.
This isn't really playing a Pirate game this is playing a death match arena game with ships and piratey graphics.
That doesn't indicate a problem with the design at all, it indicates a different player base than they expected. The design of the game is fine, give or take a few minor changes that could be implemented.
The group you mentioned is probably in a minority of the players that don't do ANY content and they will most likely quit in the next few weeks when they no longer get enjoyment out of it, or realize there are people they really aren't going to care if they are attacked and will either A) ignore them and continue on with their objectives or B) fight back and either lose or sink them.
If you give people a PvP environment, they will use it, but trolls and griefers will eventually get bored and leave.
@ilumino said in I hope RARE doesn't knee-jerk redesign this game.:
This is one of the easiest game to avoid PVP. I dont' get the complaints. If you see another ship at port, don't go there, go to another. If you see one on the horizon, turn around. Don't leave your ship alone without your comrades on board as a lookout.
If you are being spawn camped, scuttle your ship. But I haven't seen a situation yet where I didn't knowingly get myself into a stupid situation where I could be killed by other players. Don't go into a fight alone or without being prepared.
It's easy to avoid other players and even more easy to avoid PVP. I've seen plenty of games where PVP sucks, SoT isn't one of them. Rare has done an amazing job of making it work well and work fairly.
They don’t want to “avoid PvP” they want their hand help for an easy experience. They don’t understand that isn’t pvpve it’s all together and one concept. This is a strategy game and people don’t want to use enough of their brain to participate. This isn’t your mainstream gear grind. And everyone is brainwashed by that concept they refuse to see the game for what it is.
@alymon Not buying it. It's a question of whether they want to not a question of resources. Disabling combat at 1 or more outposts should not a signifacant change.
@timidobserver said in I hope RARE doesn't knee-jerk redesign this game.:
@alymon Not buying it. It's a question of whether they want to not a question of resources. Disabling combat at 1 or more outposts should not a signifacant change.
Ok, don't buy it. You're absolutely right that adding a checkbox to the options to only do safe zone servers or to be in full pvp servers is small when you strictly consider only that piece. It's never that simple though with software. Never. Every change has implications. Every implication leads to more changes that have to be made. I can't think of any change to software that has ever not led to at least a dozen other things that also needed to be considered.
Here's the first implication you are missing: Now you have to split your servers. You need to effectively estimate how many PvP servers you need and how many PvE servers you need (I'm going to call them PvE because it's shorter than safe zone, but I'm specifically referring to safe zone server as you defined it). You also have to manage that number fluctuating over time as the community changes and as new content is added.
Second implication: Now every change after has to factor in 2 fundamental design concepts (full PvP vs limited PvP) instead of 1.
Again, not saying it can't be done. I'm saying everyone likes to oversimplify when it comes to updates/changes/new content/the impacts and requirements to do them. It's never that simple.
@timidobserver
You want safe zones and no PvP? Only way Id be down for this is if the missions have no gold reward. You want a reward for transporting treasure in Sea of Thieves without thieves?@toastywrath said in I hope RARE doesn't knee-jerk redesign this game.:
@kashaarafall ship upgrades would break the game lol. If you’d like I can explain in detail how naval combat works and why any sort of ship upgrades would completely ruin the balance.
I understand a want for more but seriously it’s been out like 3 days...come on. Your looking at it as if the process of acquiring cosmetics are the core concept of the game and it’s not.
It’s an adventure game. Made to bring people together and form their own experiences and stories. Seems most people are so brainwashed by the modern gear grind concept they refuse to sea the true beauty of this game and why people support it whole heartedly.
Sounds like you e had a lame experience so far and if you’d like your welcome to join me or one of the people in my group as we are all rather proficient and always looking for new people to teach.
P.s none of this is meant to be condescending or sarcastic. I’m very direct is all.
Ship upgrades would ruin the game sure, unless they do it in a good way... like the current ships are free, then you can buy a different one for like 10-100k gold.. if it sinks it's gone, and you'll have to cough up another 10-100k if you want that baby back again.
Or they could make it so you can fully make a ship from ground up.. that would be fun, but there are people who aren't into building crud, so they'd be left out.. or you might join a party to spawn onto a cancerous looking ship which makes your eyes bleed.
Here is how the Safe Zone server would play out. Players who want to grind gold for a while would join the Safe server for completing voyages. When they have what they want they will jump back to the vanilla server to battle ships. Here’s the issue, this means the vanilla servers become combat focused with very little chance of loot. Why? The people gathering treasure are on the safe servers. This breaks the underlying game dynamics. It is a symbiotic relationship that the game depends on. If they were to cave on this aspect it will be the end of the game. It would also strip any meaning from seeing a ship decked out in upper level gear. They faced little adversity in achieving it. The only possible way to accomplish this is that any gold or upgrades earned on the safe server would not transfer to a vanilla server. Even that would weaken the game since it significantly alters the population.
@alymon I have no knowledge of how their logic determines when to spin up a new instance, but I assume that it is need based logic. IE we have 6 players that need an instance, none are available, so spin up a new one. That wouldn't need to change. It would just spin up or take down PvP or PvE instances as needed.
@jacksonwallop said in I hope RARE doesn't knee-jerk redesign this game.:
Dear people at Rare. Please stick to your guns. If players are talking, good or ill, its a good thing. It means they care about what you've made. The worst thing that could happen is letting this gem of a game be designed by a committee.
Many of us can agree improvements need to be made (though we may not agree on the specifics.) That said I agree that they should take a measured approach to making changes, and also try not to do too many things at once, which often causes more problems than it solves. There's a lot of things I'd like to see (and maybe that you reading this wouldn't like to see!) but I'm content to patiently wait for the solutions that will make the most people happy.
@timidobserver said in I hope RARE doesn't knee-jerk redesign this game.:
@alymon I have no knowledge of how their logic determines when to spin up a new instance, but I assume that it is need based logic. IE we have 6 players that need an instance, none are available, so spin up a new one. That wouldn't need to change. It would just spin up or take down PvP or PvE instances as needed.
Absolutely! Things to consider. I guess that's my point though. And I think @Tahngarthor just hit it on the head. Changes need to be thoughtful and given appropriate care and consideration.
@timidobserver said in I hope RARE doesn't knee-jerk redesign this game.:
@alymon I have no knowledge of how their logic determines when to spin up a new instance, but I assume that it is need based logic. IE we have 6 players that need an instance, none are available, so spin up a new one. That wouldn't need to change. It would just spin up or take down PvP or PvE instances as needed.
My understand is that any given instance only has up to four parties within it. So a new instance is started whenever another one fills up.
@killermajaro that would be stats man. Lol the issue is there would only be one type of ship and all other would get blown away.
Speed an manueverability is everything in naval combat and that’s what everyone would build for. The current build of the game make sure everyone is equal stats wise and the only defining factor is skill and creativity. Lol so I disagree.
@helen said in I hope RARE doesn't knee-jerk redesign this game.:
I don't understand why people in this thread are so vehemently opposed to giving more options that appeal to different players. Your gameplay experience will be completely unchanged. You can still Outpost camp, blow each other to pieces, etc. The folks here are just saying to give an option for people who DON'T want to do PvP. It will not interfere with your gameplay experience at all. I was already driven off the game last night by people insisting that unless I want to die a million times, I should just give up and stop playing.
Why does it bother you so much to see other people play the game in a way differently than you do, especially if they are on a different server and not even a part of your gameplay? Why does it bother you so much that other people don't have the same interests as you?
I feel a non pvp server would get boring for even non pvpers? sure it would remove the griefing and such, but you will no longer fear anything on the sea, or even on land infact. even skull forts will become a cakewalk. There will be no feeling of fear or excitement, only laughs among crew until they become bored of the grind. Might aswell want a solo server? They would have to bound chests to whoever picked them up so no other people can take your chests, they'd have to remove boat damage completely... you'd still get griefed at skulled forts.. you'd have people rushing in to kill the boss and steal the key.. like the whole server will go there with no fear of their boat sinking or them being killed.. So what you want is a solo or co-op server? am i right?
@flavoredbacon said in I hope RARE doesn't knee-jerk redesign this game.:
@timidobserver
You want safe zones and no PvP? Only way Id be down for this is if the missions have no gold reward. You want a reward for transporting treasure in Sea of Thieves without thieves?This a thousand times
You do not deserve the same rewards as the rest of us who take the risk playing the game as is. If you don't want to learn how to play the game better then maybe Destiny is more your speed
"I feel a non pvp server would get boring for even non pvpers? sure it would remove the griefing and such"
Maybe it would, maybe it wouldn't. But if the game isn't fun outside of the pvp combat component, I think some serious improvement would be needed.
That being said I find the game quite enjoyable even without ever getting into a fight. So maybe you should let people deicde that for themselves.
@alymon Yup it needs to be thoughtful, but I feel like it wouldn't be that big of a deal. The only real questions are whether there is enough demand and whether they are willing to compromise on their previous stated position on the issue.
@flavoredbacon
Me personally, I wouldn't mind safe zones even if it was only one outpost. However, I don't see a need for PvE only instances, but I can respect those that do want a PvE only experience . However, safe zones and PvE is a minor issue for me.My primary issue with the game is a general lack of interest in cosmetics. My toon is still wearing the stuff I logged in on day 1 with. I'll probably put on my black dog stuff if/when it ever arrives. I'd like to see them add some reward options for people like me. Not being satisfied with only cosmetics is a frequent complaint in many post-launch reviews. I'd like to see a little compromise from Rare on this topic.
@flavoredbacon said in I hope RARE doesn't knee-jerk redesign this game.:
@timidobserver
You want safe zones and no PvP?Um ... no ... having both safe zones and no PvP would be stupid as the 'no pvp' would end the need for the safe zones ... there are people asking for PvE only instances ... I'm okay with that if we define the character to PvE instances from then out. (IE you can't PvE to get gold and then go to a PvP server ....
Safe zones are a different issue all together and in themselves only address the issue of being attacked at certain outposts (or all outposts) ... this would be like a called truce at the outpost you would still be open to PvP outside of the safe area.
Note I don't necessarily support either idea I'd have to see specifics of implementation and things like that before I'd remotely have an opinion.
I wouldn't mind a PvE solo tutorial at the beginning to give new players a little more info about the game and how it plays before thowing them onto an island with spawn campers waiting (okay they probably weren't waiting ... but they did kill us before we could get to our ship and then when we respawned there again sank the ship before we could get it and out of dock) ... this could be as simple as getting a starter voyage from each of the factions and sailing to the islands to complete them ... give them maybe 300 gold but no standing and then send them out to make their way in the more dangerous world ... but at least they know the basics of how to sail and fight ... currently the 'tutorials' are easy to miss and do very little to actually tell you what you need to do in some cases.
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