Just want to say before you read whats below, there is no ill-intent towards anyone im countering, nothing but love, brothers! My editing ducks too, doing this of my phone, so bare with me. Also forgive my spelling but im not going back to correct everything.
@gareeet said in [Mega Thread] - Play Anywhere, Cross Play and Balancing. (Part 2):
We had zero issues playing the beta with controllers, and forcing players to use controllers easily levels the playing field for crossplay. We were playing one day with two xbox one players and being able to communicate specific controls to new players was perfect.
Thank you, and I agree 'forcing players to use the same interface will indeed level the playing field (although I do not think this is the correct way to balance things). Acknowledging there i an issue is a +1 in my book!
@deashkiin said in [Mega Thread] - Play Anywhere, Cross Play and Balancing. (Part 2):
Controller only seems that bad to those who aren't proficient with it. I am on PC playing with a DS4 and win 9 out of 10 fights, just as I can easily keep up even in more competitive shooters such as Rainbow Six.
And honestly, having played for years with both a controller and M+Kb I can tell you that both have advantages, the controller is way better at controlling movement while the mouse is way better for aiming. Both things can even be minimized by experience/practice. Imho, in a game like this, I feel like twitch aiming is even less important than normal (specially without actual crosshairs) and given that the controller is also better for steering and canon aiming, things even out.
Edit: There could be an optional aim assist for when using a controller on both platforms though. Done right, it will clear the issue completely.
deashkiin: "Controller only seems that bad to those who aren't proficient with it. I am on PC playing with a DS4 and win 9 out of 10 fights, just as I can easily keep up even in more competitive shooters such as Rainbow Six"
ME: No mate, please get a clue and no disrespect intedned, controllers ARE BAD period. Yes you can grow proficient with it, the younger generation have never known any different. Bold claim about your victories. WHy do you think every console shooter has aim assist? Ever think about that; it's to assist a sub-par interface option.
deashkiin: And honestly, having played for years with both a controller and M+Kb I can tell you that both have advantages, the controller is way better at controlling movement
Me: Here you are actually regurgitating an age old argument thats not even your own, and your misrepresenting the claim that is age old within the gaming community. I'll explain... movement on a controller is better only in the sense that with an analogue imput you have a touch sensetivity so you can creep and move slowly; unlike the microswitch of a keyboard button that simply toggles on and off. There is no advantage here for the xbox controller - they are literally equal.
deashkiin: while the mouse is way better for aiming. Both things can even be minimized by experience/practice
ME: you admit that a mouse is the better option for aiming - my whole post is in deffense of this fact, which you agree upon, so what is the argument? you spent a portion of your deffense negating this fact only to agree yourself later in your post. You can indeed get better with a controller, I'm pretty decent myself on call of duty for example but this is an ignorant claim, im sorry.
deashkiin: I feel like twitch aiming is even less important than normal (specially without actual crosshairs) and given that the controller is also better for steering and canon aiming, things even out.
ME: I partly agree, this game is not twitchy, but on a mouse you are still able to spin around and have greater situational awareness. The controller has a hard cap that is coded into the game so we have a limit on how fast we can turn, which is considerably slower than a mouse. Fun fact... set the ingame sensativity on the lowest setting on xbox and it actually takes 12 whole seconds to do a fulll 360. This is crazy, noody would ever play like that so RARE have indeed set the bar too low and the higher end as a result is slower.
@ods7-117 said in [Mega Thread] - Play Anywhere, Cross Play and Balancing. (Part 2):
I play on both pc and console and I prefer console and that's my opinion and choice. I've been playing the alpha/beta for awhile and never had a problem where I felt at a disadvantage using a controller. My record is almost spotless. The only time I feel at a disadvantage is when the blunder buster doesn't work. You know when there is a fat guy on a wheel and you climb the ship and basically put the blunder buster in his back and he doesn't die. That's the only problem I run into when pvping. I've played against a lot of pc players and I beat many of them. So I think cross play is find.
Maybe you do not feel the disadvantage, and im happy for you, but when you are shot with near 100% accuracy from a pc player you'll feel it and feel cheated. Because this game is so slow ie: actually player speed is slow it amplifies how fast a mouse can get a lead on you and hit you. Your record is spotless? Elaborate? I guarantee you if you duel a pc player in open combat with any ranged weapon you will die more than yu win, i promsie you, infact i want to see some solid tests on this by th player base.
@deashkiin said in [Mega Thread] - Play Anywhere, Cross Play and Balancing. (Part 2):
@gareeet Mouse and keyboard should never be supported imo, it just creates an unfair advantage in other more competitive games
If this is not the smoking gun I don't know what is! You are admitting that KBM creates an unfair advantage in OTHER games that are competetive, excuse me? So because a game is not competetive then it doesnt matter? Either way, (and again i might add) you are supporting my original post.
Why do poeple complain in COD when users play with a XIM4? Because its unfair right? Its superior, twitch or no twitch the underlying process remains, KBM can get on target faster and look around faster - thats no different in this game. If i can get on you and train on you faster than you can on me, then I win right? I believe so. The fact that its a valid claim in one game and not another astonishes me. FOrget leaderboards, forget K/D ratois. Sea f thieves IScompetetive because guess what? the players are, the fact that there is no ranking does not change the fact that people will feel cheated when bested by a superior aiming system.
Heres my logic, you have one platform so one controller type should exist OR both should exist. You have a cross platform game so again both options should exist for players to freely choose being restricted is not the answer and just causes contention within the ocmmunity.
@deashkiin said in [Mega Thread] - Play Anywhere, Cross Play and Balancing. (Part 2):
@return-if-found There isn't even much consequence for dying like that though. Me sinking your ship however...
I do agree there is still some advantage (small, very small) overall towards PC, hence the aim assist suggestion. Specially now with the sword lock gone and not having an option (can see some more casual controller users having a difficulty with this). However there's other areas where the controller wins. M+Kb is not better at everything as some try to say, and if you can control where/how you're fighting you can easily win.
Edit: No need to start being condescending cause you can't argue "buddy". And no, it doesn't need to be nor would most console users use it as it's not the product's purpose. Again, I'm on PC playing on a TV - won't use M+Kb. Also there's other games to consider when supporting at a system level so that just won't happen anytime soon. And if it did it would be a big mistake on their part. See the big picture
What are the areas where a controller user wins? aiming a cannon? on Pc you can pick up your controller (if you have one) and be at no disadvantage but when shooting you can switch back over to KBM, yet another +1 for pc users.
M+Kb is not better at everything as some try to say, and if you can control where/how you're fighting you can easily win.
deashkiin: M+Kb is not better at everything as some try to say, and if you can control where/how you're fighting you can easily win.
Me: This is a rediculous thing to say, a player cannot pick and choose where to fight, often the fight finds the player. Please give me an example of how a player can "easily win" vs another in tis way? You areseriously saying that if, and only IF a player on a controller can contol and choose where he fights he wins? WHat about where he does not? The fact you have to describe a fantasy scenario that benefits the controller user is laughable.
@gareeet said in [Mega Thread] - Play Anywhere, Cross Play and Balancing. (Part 2):
Elitist jerks that need to have a kb/mouse advantage can go stuff themselves. Sometimes we'll play kb/mouse on our desktop gaming system, and sometimes we'll kick back and play with a controller on the couch on our 82" hdtv. SOT plays perfectly on a controller, and rare has stated several times they want a level playing field.
Sounds like you just want an advantage over the console players to me.
Even if he wanted an advantage (and who'd blame him). Your supporting the fact that there is an advantage lol. Nobody is arguing that the controls are buggy or otherwise bad. I fund them comfortable and intuitive, BUT the problem is, the sensitivity is too low and it is a less precise pointing device when it comes to shooting.
This is quite logical to me. If you are mixing platforms then every player should have the choice of using the input devices of the platforms involved, if this cannot be done then there should be a toggle for people to opt out. As I've said previously, GOW4 has it, rocket league has it. The developers recognise that there is balance issue.
Many shooters have auto aim to compensate the inferior tracking of a controller. A game doesn't need to be competitive in nature for gamers to be competitive in it. They will, because they want to win, because they are gamers! And when you add in PVP and the fact that your hard work can be undone and you can loose then there will be a sense of loss. Even if the reward is cosmetic, somebody has still lost out, so you better believe peple will be competetive.
On this note alone it warrents the develpers to create an even playing field for all. It is their responsability to, and ofcourse they are trying (which is good and decent of them) BUT they are actually failing a portion of the community. I know they know aout this balance issue, it would have been impossible for them to miss this way before this game ever got into the public hands or so I would like to believe.
I suspect that once enough stats get out there the devs will address this issue just they have with every other issue thats gotten enough attention, and rightly so. And once the PC elitist crews get on, and they will you will see a lot more people complain about the divide between the input options.
I'll keep my argument centered around the input devices but cast them aside and pc actually has so many more advantages over consoles.
60 frames per second? Better hardware? 3rd party macros? Hacks? push toggle communication? the devide grows.
For fun just look at this youtube video,
pc player, he is running around the skelly fort like hes paying call of duty, fast, twitchy, and insane tracking and targeting, do this on a controller chaps.
also he can turn on a dime while running, do this on a controller and you run in a small arc...
aaaand... heres an xbox player
yes there can be individual skill gap, but just look at the movement differences, night and day difference... slow, clumsy and bad tracking on targets
(sorry in advance if your not allowed to link videos