The PvP doesn't feel very on demand

  • The fact that you have to stock up in-between every fight makes this system feel pretty inconvenient to use, in the arena you could easily hop in and expect fights that don't always just boil down to attrition due to the fact that everyone was very well off in regards to their resources and also on equal footing, however in this system both winning and losing is frustrating. If you win a fight with an opponent of similar skill (which the matchmaking is supposed to put you against) it's very likely you blew through a lot of your resources and have to go re-stock which can take a decent amount of time considering that there is no limit to how many resources you can take into fights, and if you lose you naturally just lose all the resources that were on your ship.

    This feels doubly bad because there is no limit to how many resources you can have on your ship when you engage in PvP, going into a fight understocked is a death sentence so you’re incentivized to spend a bunch of time stocking up your ship and if you end up in a fight with someone simply better than you and lose, all the time you spent gathering resources was for nought.

    I do however think it's fine for the defenders to be able to keep their stock of resources since that kind of gameplay loop would encourage you to stock up anyway and they also have more to lose if they have loot on board however it feels really bad to queue into a quick skirmish versus another attacker only for them to have a strict advantage in PvP because they spent more time engaging in PvE.

    I imagine there are plenty of good ways to get around this such as adding a cap to how much you can carry into PvP, adding a baseline of resources into attackers’ ships, and adding more resources to ships upon victory so they can keep increasing their streak.

    As of now this system does not feel on demand at all.

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  • Such a focus on resources, when i did it earlier, i just grabbed some easy supplies from an outpost, chose my side and sailed around to grab loot and supplies, i got invaded 4 times and a 5th reaper came after me, and after each fight i got enough resources from crates to resupply what i lost and more without any issue.

    It was almost constant with just enough time between to grab loot and supplies.

  • @goldsmen This experience is very alien to me, whenever I queued for pvp a lot of the fights just devolved to who had more resources and by the end of most of the fights both ships had no resources to speak of, after every single invasion I did I had to spend a decent amount of time picking up loot to stand a chance, whether I won or not. the arena never had this problem.

  • @elisaron3706 said in The PvP doesn't feel very on demand:

    @goldsmen This experience is very alien to me, whenever I queued for pvp a lot of the fights just devolved to who had more resources and by the end of most of the fights both ships had no resources to speak of, after every single invasion I did I had to spend a decent amount of time picking up loot to stand a chance, whether I won or not. the arena never had this problem.

    It has been very fast paced for me sofar, in the span of maby an hour i had 4 battles and a fifth person show up randomly, all have ended quickly with close calls on both sides, but i always had too many resources, its all about pressure my friend!

  • That seems to be the issue. To many people comparing it to arena.

    You may fight someone who stocked on a lot of curses and easily sink your ship or get an easy fight who didn’t stock up at all.

    Much like random fights we use to get

  • @burnbacon Is it really shocking that people would compare this to the only PvP content this game has received since arena was added and then removed? This is clearly intended to fill that niche and it seems to just be doing it worse than arena did, these encounters aren't random either, you opt into them, it's completely fine that fights that randomly break out on the sea would be uneven since those encounters by nature are random but it just feels odd that you can tilt the scales in opt in PvP by spending excess time engaging in PvE beforehand.

  • In arena you would start with loads of supplies and if you got sunk you would start with a fresh stock. I have made many posts about increasing the starting supplies and most people have been pretty dismissive about the points I tried to make. I literally stopped being friends with someone in world of warcraft because he wouldn't agree with me on how stupid it was that your mana got drained whenever you swapped spec (roles) So lets say I was DPS and I needed to go healer it would be 60 second down time because I had to drink and there wasn't anything in the game that would restore 100% mana each food/drink took 30 seconds to finish and you needed to use 2 pieces. So that was 6 minutes on average per day drinking. Last I looked I had something like 3500 days played in WoW that's 21,000 hours spent drinking to recover my mana just from changing spec.

    I have always been a little OCD about time. Time doing trivial things like that where its down time just for the sake of wasting a persons time. There's no challenge to sitting idle for 60 seconds just like in this game there's no challenge to gathering supplies. While I appreciate the ability to buy supplies it doesn't change the fact that now more than ever we need to rethink starting supplies. If not removing bananas from the starting supply at least throw in some coconuts. There were no bananas in arena ships (unless you looted island barrels). When they introduced ship damage you got 3 panks for a mast, helm, upto 3 for a capstan. That's an insane amount of wood just to fix the new damageable parts of the ship that doesn't even account for actually having to patch the hull.

    Now more-so than ever the way they advertised this PvP mode like "lose a fight? que up again!! PVP on DEMAND!!!!" ok... but I spawned at an island with 2 barrels and no supply crates so i got like 5 canon balls, 3 bananas and 2 planks so I guess I got to sail to an outpost. Drop gold on supply crates because its cheaper than buying captaincy supplies. Then I can finally que up.

    I get it that one could argue all our hobbies are a waste of time to begin with so why are we arguing about wasting time in the world we have chosen to waste our time in. It's about being able to get to the fun bits faster. I am sure just like before this will just be met with a lot of dismissive responses. The solution to bad game design choices shouldn't be "don't like it? Then don't do it or just quit. If we took that attitude toward everything SoT would have died in year 1. Suggestions to improve the game we love aren't a bad thing. This seems like a practical one. I think a lot of people are short sighted. They look at the "Well it doesn't take long to stock the ship"... Sure... if you look at it as individual sessions. How many times have you set sail? How many times have you stocked the ship? Do the math. Look at the big picture. I have easily spent a few hundred hours in this game stocking and sorting supplies. That is time away from actually playing the game and doing the stuff that is fun. It amazes me how many people never look at the big picture. They just live in the moment. Time wasted doing trivial things in the past doesn't matter. The fact that it literally took me EIGHT years to get ONE mount in world of warcraft. Over 12,600 attempts on getting the mount off a boss that respawned every 3 hours in a random location so you might not even make it to the boss before he died wasting that 3 hours. It used to take me 3 whole days to get all my attempts done back then. About 4 years into that grind they reduced the spawn time to 15 minutes and locked the boss to 1 spawn location. So now my 3 day job farming was cut down to 1 day. But that was still 1 whole day every week dedicated to this 8 year old content rather than playing the new content. Finally got it this weekend due to them adjusting the drop rate. But that's an example of game design wasting peoples time. Yes I was choosing to farm that mount... But so weren't hundreds of thousands of other people. There were crowds there every day of the week waiting for the boss to spawn.

    Asmongold said it best "A game shouldn't waste your time. A game should be so good that it MAKES you want to waste your time" Nothing about stocking a ship is fun. It's a tedious task we have just been doing since day 1. I'm not saying they should pack our starting ships with supplies. But in the very least 3x wood, 2x canon balls, some decent food.

  • Our battles have all been completely different.
    The first one we had (we were on a Gally), used a plethora of blunderbombs and chainshots. We couldn't get near the cannons and once our sails were down we went under in less than a minute!
    And yet other times it's been fighting from afar and down to the last cannonball. I think that's what's so great about this update, you never know what you're gonna get! :D
    I'm not a lover of PvP but I'm really enjoying this update.
    Of those we've sunk, some have had treasure, some not and most have had empty crates lol but there have seem to be quite a few barrels floating in the 'arena' area. :)

  • @magus104 Odd reason to end a friendship. But you do you!

  • @elisaron3706 said in The PvP doesn't feel very on demand:

    @burnbacon Is it really shocking that people would compare this to the only PvP content this game has received since arena was added and then removed? This is clearly intended to fill that niche and it seems to just be doing it worse than arena did, these encounters aren't random either, you opt into them, it's completely fine that fights that randomly break out on the sea would be uneven since those encounters by nature are random but it just feels odd that you can tilt the scales in opt in PvP by spending excess time engaging in PvE beforehand.

    Doing worse than arena did? Im not sure how you would know without the stats, but when invading, people are getting instant pairs.

  • @goldsmen I meant that the design of the mode is worse, and even then it's hard to make serious comments on this since this is a brand new system that just came out literally today, It'd be REALLY weird if it wasn't popular now

  • @elisaron3706 Arena was wait in a room, and if there wasnt enough people (usually there wasnt) then it would switch servers and try to fill that one up, then you get in, and would duke it out with totally random people of any skill level for 15 minutes and fight over a chest from time to time. This allows you to still do stuff while you wait, or let you just jump strait in.

    Then comes rewards, arena introduced the bare minimum in rewards, basically 2 sets, 1 was a recolor, this offers insane gold, multiple curses, and multiple sets!

    I think even after hype dies down, it will be hard to find some one who agrees that arena was better. Dont get me wrong, i loved sloop arena because it was chaos, but this blows it out of the water for me in every aspect.

  • Basically this is how they have been advertising it

    and

    though he did mention before the need to stock your ship so contradictory statements. I think the concept is that you can just jump right back in. As it should be. I have seen a load of empty supply crates on docks loading in now just showing how much of an issue it really is. While yes we have the option to buy supplies but the more experienced crews know they need to do that. There's a lot younger players and newer players who might not know how important supplies are putting them at a huge disadvantage... Which is great for us, awful for them.

    Like I really love these guys but every time I hear them talk about the game they aren't talking about the reality of the game we have at our disposal they are talking about some perfect vision of the game that doesn't exactly exist how they talk about it. Like they are talking about what they had envisioned for the game but not exactly what made it to the public.

  • Extra resources would be unfair to other ships on the server - either those you meet before you get invaded or after the battle. It's still "on demand", it's your choice if you want to spend a few minutes getting supplies from outpost barrels or from merchant/shipwright for some gold. Still faster than most Arena matches started.

  • @lem0n-curry You'd still have to win a fight to earn those resources and you usually don't do that without investing resources to begin with, this in my mind is a non issue in terms of balancing since if you really cared about the advantage that getting extra resources for PPp brings you could probably get like 4x the amount by just spending the same time you would fighting by collecting them. The option to show up in a fight empty handed is a false option if you actually care about engaging in the fight, you don't win fights with no resources.

  • @elisaron3706 said in The PvP doesn't feel very on demand:

    @lem0n-curry You'd still have to win a fight to earn those resources and you usually don't do that without investing resources to begin with, this in my mind is a non issue in terms of balancing since if you really cared about the advantage that getting extra resources for PPp brings you could probably get like 4x the amount by just spending the same time you would fighting by collecting them. The option to show up in a fight empty handed is a false option if you actually care about engaging in the fight, you don't win fights with no resources.

    Didn't say it was a good choice.

    On demand does not equal 'fair fight straight from the dock'.

  • @lem0n-curry On demand means you can do it whenever you want, having the option to enter unfair completely imbalanced fights on demand with an alternative where the mode is no longer on demand and requires serious time investment seems like a pretty obvious design issue, it's not a real choice and you know it.

  • Perfect example right here. My groceries showed up mid fight and I had some holes so just let myself sink. Spawned on boulder cay only 3 barrels on the island. They had 4 canon balls, 2 bananas, 1 coconut and 3 fireworks. Oh and a trident. Guess I am ready for battle!

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