New game mode TDM

Could be interesting, maybe they could also change the arena achievements with this mode.

@corresot I hope you realized going into this thread that people are gonna smack you for this.

@targasbr now listen, I know that server alliances are looked down upon, idk about yall but I'm a pirate... if there is money to be made I'm gonna make it. I strive to make only the most profitable investments and plus, server alliances have served me well in the past. I have stolen 6 athena chests from 1 server alliance so I'm not against them. HOWEVER i don't think any new servers should be designed for just one thing.

@targasbr said in New game mode TDM:

The vast majority of game problems are caused by players who invent a game mode that shouldn't exist, this includes TDM and Server Alliances.

Targas, what are your thoughts on players who spiked lobbies to naval each other and ignored the chest in Arena?

Because I would put them in the same category as those who spiked lobbies to TDM with each other.

This is not the same as folks who spiked lobbies to trade wins or boost kills for weapon commendations. This, I would put in the same category as Server Alliances. And this, I would say is bad for the game, though I still would not make the claim that they cause a "vast majority of the game's problems." I think the game suffers from enough routine bugs and desync that Rare (or Azure) can claim that accomplishment for themselves.

TDMs, naval scrims, races: these were brought to SoT by the players who used the sandbox to create something new and fun. And provided that they are operating in a vacuum (as a dedicated TDM mode might do), they would hurt no one else.

That said, I doubt that Rare will ever give us a TDM mode. Though they do intend to give us private servers. Hopefully they expand on this, and add tools to help us design custom game modes.

@corresot
You know... that video is a joke...

I think giving custom servers the ability to make changes to the experience will allow for TDMs and the like. Of course, they never seem to be finished, but at some point they will be. A good reason for Rare allowing changes is so that competitions like NAL can have the same experience as before.

@targasbr said:

Chests are there as one of the ways to win, but they're useless for experienced players... the chests were placed in the original design of the mode, while the TDM, that is, navigating to a fort, agreeing that we will only use EOR and Pistol

Okay... I agree with that, though that's totally aside from the point I was making.

I was merely attempting to establish that playing the game in an unintended way is not always bad for the game. Spiking lobbies for naval scrims (agreeing to avoid chest-running), or "rowboat races," are not the intended use of Arena, but these games do not hurt anyone, especially when done in a vacuum.

in TDM the problem goes more to the social side of the game, the vast majority of players that cause problems for the game are the people who play TDM.

Perhaps our experiences are different, but in mine, I've experienced much more toxicity in Adventure after stealing someone's loot than I've been experienced in TDMs.

I'm not saying that there aren't rude players who also TDM, but I wouldn't conflate the two unnecessarily.

You enter a lobby in order to play the game as it was meant to be played, as soon as you enter you see a guy saying "I'm on the island" and showing a pet with the name of TDM. If you don't play with them, possibly they will join your ship and stay in the spawncamp for 15 minutes. Such behavior can also be seen if you attack an alliance server.

Are you opposed to someone playing Arena for the sole purpose of boarding? Because that is how a lot of players work on their weapon commendations and boarding-pvp practice.

I haven't in a while, but I used to try to lock down a 1v4. Or just stay on my ship, wait for players to try to camp me, and break out of it.

So if someone is in Arena to pvp, but not naval; and no one wishes to TDM with them; and they don't wish to re-queue the lobby, it leaves them with few options. Either camp the chest for pvp or board ships for pvp.

TDMs, naval scrims, races: these were brought to SoT by the players who used the sandbox to create something new and fun. And provided that they are operating in a vacuum (as a dedicated TDM mode might do), they would hurt no one else.

I agree that it's a lot of fun to make game modes, I even organized some rowboat racing championships and a hide and seek match in serious galleons, only the main difference here is that we did it private servers, we didn't disturb anyone.

A dedicated TDM mode, which is what OP is asking for, would be in its own server and would not disturb anyone.

But again, as I said in my last post, the only way to organize TDMs, naval scrims and races will be in private sessions.

I would rather see communities grow within SoT and use those private sessions, than send them elsewhere.

Custom servers...that's the solution for SO many things...but I have a feeling they are going to be in Season 7 or Season 9 based on the 2022 Roadmap. And I'm confident they're going to require paid Plunder Pass participation or some other buy-in for access to those servers.

I doubt Rare is going to get into any specific game modes (again) until the storyline for Adventure is wrapping up.

@targasbr Is it safe to say that we both understand that there is nothing inherently bad about TDM as a concept (let alone the source of "most" problems); but also that without private sessions, TDM will never become a thing?

The rest of the convo is furcating into various points that we can agree to disagree on.

Regarding the post-mortem on Arena toxicity, these are my final thoughts:

We lost voice/text communication because of toxicity. And TDMers don't have a monopoly on toxicity.

The same folks who hurl slurs at you after you sink them in Adventure were also vocal after losing matches in Arena. And they were able to express their unfiltered hate every 24 (and later 15) minutes. Removal of voice/text didn't fix the issue either. It just helped Rare neglect the problem and shift the responsibility to Microsoft. People still go out of their way to pipe up and send salty dms through Xbox messages.

And as for getting teamed on, I was always against forcing players out of a session. Which is why I always tried to spike a full lobby. So that I didn't
have to deal with people interrupting, and I didn't feel that I was taking away from anyone else's experience.

However, if a crew did not wish to participate in the tdm; did not wish to get a free win; did not wish to leave to find a naval lobby, and instead decided to shoot cannons at the tdm ships, then I honestly feel they brought spawncamping onto themselves.

I wonder what these folks expect TDMers to do in response. Just sit there and watch as their spawnpoint sinks? Are all 4 other crews supposed to give up the lobby and leave so that the one naval crew doesn't have to?

Anyway, doesn't matter anymore.

Hmmm, if only there were other games out there that embraced Deathmatch type modes and did it much better than this game...OH WAIT!

Hard pass from me on this, glad the focus is back on what makes this game so unique and fun - Adventure (though, once Arena is finally closed we can get back to just calling that "the game" again).

PvPvE adventure game is where it is at.

@personalc0ffee said:

TDMs, naval scrims, races: these were brought to SoT by the players who used the sandbox to create something new and fun. And provided that they are operating in a vacuum (as a dedicated TDM mode might do), they would hurt no one else.

That said, I doubt that Rare will ever give us a TDM mode. Though they do intend to give us private servers. Hopefully they expand on this, and add tools to help us design custom game modes.

It's all the same.

It is against the spirit of the game and Rare needs to address it and fix it.

🤦‍♂️🤷‍♂️

What exactly would you like Rare to "fix", and what would you have done with NAL, Race of Legends, and other affiliates/partners who use private sessions to play the game in unintended ways?

A dedicated TDM mode would not go "against the spirit of the game", as it would not interfere with the main game.

As I said, this won't happen regardless, and the only chance such a mode has to exist is through private sessions.

@personalc0ffee said:

NAL and RoL are exceptions. They are running ACTUAL events. They are not cheesing commendations or money. They aren't sitting there holding server alliances every day, all day long so everyone can avoid PvP.

Cool...

You aware what the topic of the thread even is?

A dedicated TDM mode would be for actual competition, not cheesing commendations or money, and certainly not to avoid pvp.

The post of mine that you replied to was one in which I challenged Targas' comparison of such a TDM mode to server alliances. You said "it's all the same," despite the obvious and clear differences between the two.

It would be the same problem, Arena has now. It wouldn't be used and the cost of maintaining it would not meet quota.

Thanks tips.

As I said in every comment I've made in the thread thus far: Rare is not going to give us a TDM mode.

The only way that players will have a chance to TDM is with access to private servers. And should Rare provide us with tools to create and track scores, it would make it easier to create not just TDMs, but other custom game modes as well.

I would much prefer this to a TDM mode, that Rare would most likely mishandle, as they did with Arena.

As to how to solve that little issue? Block VPN traffic, stagger/queue multiple [blah blah blah]... "But then I can't get on multiple boats with my friends!"...
Good, you're not supposed to be doing that unless you're in the same crew.

Again, this addresses server alliances; has nothing to do with a TDM mode or a private session TDM.

I would actually be okay with what you suggested there, as it would block server alliances from forming.

But I would still like to TDM with friends in a private session.

@personalc0ffee said:

I'm sorry but I do not think there will be anything but Adventure moving forward, even where private servers are concerned... I know you love your TDM communities but there is no reason or incentive for Rare to continue supporting that tiny player base... The only way you would be able to do such moving forward is in Adventure private servers

Coffee, there's obviously a disconnect somewhere. I'm confused as to why you feel the need to make some of these points, and now I'm running out of patience for this conversation lol.

Did I give you the impression that I thought Rare would make a TDM mode?

Have I not said, repeatedly, that the only way that players would be able to TDM in the future, would be through private sessions?

Was that rambling meant to rebut the bit where I hoped that they give us more tools, like tracking scores? Because scoring, disabling/enabling PvE spawns, setting weather conditions, spawning in loot items - this would not just benefit TDMers, it would help content creators/partners, affiliates like NAL, and other communities design their own events.

It would help folks like Targas host "rowboat race championships," or whatever, a lot easier.

Even without all that, one could still use the barebones private servers we have now to TDM. NAL is finding a way to hold competitive 1v1s. All it is, is a real sandbox. No commendation or gold/rep progress. Just for fun.

As for the VPN comment... TECHNICALLY if they would have had such tech in place RoL and NAL could not have been so successful. I realize that, however; those communities could have reached out to Rare directly... I still maintain a position that Rare needs to block formation of server alliances and join manipulation tactics.

Okay, coffee. Literally no one in this thread has argued for server alliances. I certainly haven't.

Let Rare block/perma ban server alliances who "cheese commendations and money", and "avoid pvp," or ruin "the spirit of the game." I do not care. It would not affect me.

Though I find the idea that the "communities could have reached out," a bit daft. Because without the ability to spike and compete with each other, what communities would they have had?

Anyway, I think I'm ready to move on from this thread since idk how else to make the same points I've made ad nauseum, other than in another language.

I'll try this... Tl;dr: 1) No TDM mode. 2) Server Alliances are bad, healthy competition is good. 3) Private sessions will help grow communities.

Happy sailing.