@cardshark-360 said in Racism and harassment. What to do when it happens?:
@Zhin-Murakami Sorry to hear that you had to experience this. One thing to remember is that you can also BLOCK players. This is a great feature as you will never run into them again.
nice feature!
@ant-heuser-kush So you're saying people who live under dictatorships are also free? I mean they are free to say what they want, but they're not free from consequences of saying whatever they want, which can possibly be as evil as punishment by death. Just poor talking points that I've heard many times before, you didn't make that idea up yourself and you know it. It's not even logical, not the slightest.
@ant-heuser-kush Well then that's great, step in, say what you want back. I'm all for that. Again, I believe in free speech. But if you get violent while the other person isn't, I'm not with you on that. The same if the person gets violent with you, I'm then on your side. This is how it should be. When people say nasty things to me, I say worse things back. If they want to go further, that's on them. But this is a game, you can block them and avoid them. The most they can do is speak.
@ant-heuser-kush said in Racism and harassment. What to do when it happens?:
@trenix90 said in Racism and harassment. What to do when it happens?:
@ant-heuser-kush Well then that's great, step in, say what you want back. I'm all for that. Again, I believe in free speech. But if you get violent while the other person isn't, I'm not with you on that. The same if the person gets violent with you, I'm then on your side. This is how it should be. When people say nasty things to me, I say worse things back. If they want to go further, that's on them. But this is a game, you can block them and avoid them. The most they can do is speak.
See the problem, you wait for violence before you decide to take a stand. Harassment is harassment and abuse is abuse. I don't care if it's in a video game, over social media, the forums, on the bus, on the train, in the hallway, or a public restroom. If you stand idly by and just let people say whatever they want, things are going to escalate. Step in before things get bad. If you're a part of a crew and your crew is being toxic and you don't tell them to stop because they're only words, you're just as much as the problem as they are.
But it's neither harassment or abuse, at least by not the standards of law. Again, with how we are nowadays, everything can be considered abuse or harassment. After racism, comes trolling, then toxicity, before we know it, we have no more free speech anymore. Trolling and toxicity are also broad terms, everything can fit under it. Lets not do the same with this game. I miss the times where you'd play it game online and it said, "play at your own risk". I know you guys aren't morally bad people and it's clear you want to make a difference. However I truly believe you guys don't understand that you're basically asking to be censored.
@ghostpaw said in Racism and harassment. What to do when it happens?:
@face-0-o said in Racism and harassment. What to do when it happens?:
I said disconnect for a while because you're literally grandstanding for capital punishment on all those who offend you. Do you want a history book for what that closely resembles?
History is also filled with examples of what happens when racism, stereotyping, bigotry, and so on goes unchallenged by a community. Blowing this stuff off is invalidating for the victim and is a quiet endorsement that the situation is normal and acceptable. It's not.
It may be normal human behavior to do a lot of things, but we are retrained by our environment including the people around us.
Nice try, but I don't subject myself to biased "alternative facts" of the overly sensitive. "Quiet endorsement". Dude, get real.
@trenix90 said in Racism and harassment. What to do when it happens?:
@ant-heuser-kush said in Racism and harassment. What to do when it happens?:
@trenix90 said in Racism and harassment. What to do when it happens?:
@ant-heuser-kush Well then that's great, step in, say what you want back. I'm all for that. Again, I believe in free speech. But if you get violent while the other person isn't, I'm not with you on that. The same if the person gets violent with you, I'm then on your side. This is how it should be. When people say nasty things to me, I say worse things back. If they want to go further, that's on them. But this is a game, you can block them and avoid them. The most they can do is speak.
See the problem, you wait for violence before you decide to take a stand. Harassment is harassment and abuse is abuse. I don't care if it's in a video game, over social media, the forums, on the bus, on the train, in the hallway, or a public restroom. If you stand idly by and just let people say whatever they want, things are going to escalate. Step in before things get bad. If you're a part of a crew and your crew is being toxic and you don't tell them to stop because they're only words, you're just as much as the problem as they are.
But it's neither harassment or abuse, at least by not the standards of law. Again, with how we are nowadays, everything can be considered abuse or harassment. After racism, comes trolling, then toxicity, before we know it, we have no more free speech anymore. Trolling and toxicity are also broad terms, everything can fit under it. Lets not do the same with this game. I miss the times where you'd play it game online and it said, "play at your own risk". I know you guys aren't morally bad people and it's clear you want to make a difference. However I truly believe you guys don't understand that you're basically asking to be censored.
Living in the US, hate speech is free speech. I don't have to like what that person is saying, but I'll defend to the death their right to say it.
Replace "New Yorker" with "American citizen" and it's near spot on.
@ant-heuser-kush said in Racism and harassment. What to do when it happens?:
It sounds a lot like you like you like being around this kind of behavior. Kids play this game... they shouldn't be subject to that. And relax with the, "Then keep your kids off the internet" replies... I don't even have kids, I'm just saying that this is a rated T game. If you allow people to be toxic... then they will be toxic. You need to police that sort of behavior and it starts with us. You don't care, fine, but that doesn't mean other people have to put up with it.
If I'm playing a game and the enemy crew keeps calling me the N word, that's harassment. And depending on the words used, they can have a serious mental impact on the person... This goes so much deeper than just spewing insults.
When I was a teenager and even younger, I was subjected to FAR worse things than just offensive words. I've had several death threats by clearly older players in games, which is against the law. I still remember it was in Starcraft, the original game. You know what happened? I laughed and didn't care nor did I take it personally. They said it because I played terribly, I mean I was a kid, lol. I didn't go out of my way to report the player or anything of that sort. That never even crossed my mind.
If teenagers can't handle that, they shouldn't play the game or even be on the internet, because it's something that may potentially occur whether it's policed or not. Again with this toxic word, everything is toxic. We should stop babying teenagers and getting them ready for the real world. In the real world, your boss, customers, and everyone, will not have any regard to your feelings whatsoever. If you get traumatized because of the N word, then you clearly had other underlying issues beyond the person saying a word. I mean seriously, mental impact on a person from a word? Again harassment by law, is more through threatening someone with violence, not from saying a word.
Nice straw man attempt, but we aren't talking about the government coming in to limit free speech. Free speech is not the right to say whatever you like without others countering you. That is a common misconception. And the U.S. government DOES convict people based based on their words. Just look at people like Charles Manson or Michelle Carter.
Words do harm people. The saying "words can never hurt me" is grossly misguided. Work a crisis line for a while and listen to some of the verbal abuse people have endured from the people around them. I learned a lot through that experience. Words can absolutely devastate a person. Especially when they are seemingly endorsed by others who could intervene. Luckily, words can also help lift others up.
@ant-heuser-kush said in Racism and harassment. What to do when it happens?:
@trenix90 Oh, yes. I've been through far worse things than just death threats in a video game... physical, mental, you name it. It has happened to me. That's why I am the way I am now. I never had anyone to step in for me. I just had to suck it up.
So yeah, words will get my blood boiling. I don't even talk (because I'm traumatized), but when I open my mouth it's usually never a good thing. Video games are not the real world... people use video games to get away from the real world.
Harassment comes in many forms... verbally harass someone at work and tell them to grow up. Let me know how long it took you to get fired.
I don't know what to say besides that you should seriously toughen up and reevaluate your life better if words and people online have somehow impacted your life in a negative way. As you said, video games are NOT the real world, but you treat it as if it is. I never take anything seriously inside gaming, except maybe when I'm competitive. Also for the verbal harassment at work is just so ridiculous too.
Go to work and do nothing and look at your boss and say you're not going to do anything. See how fast he'll verbally harass you or fire you from the job. Have you did customer service? Oh boy, you'd love the verbal abuse there. I mean you basically get paid to be verbally abused by customers, lol.
@trenix90 said in Racism and harassment. What to do when it happens?:
In the real world, your boss, customers, and everyone, will not have any regard to your feelings whatsoever.
In the real world your boss might not care, but the U. S. Government and general voting public does:
Learn about employment laws that cover wrongful discharge, workers' compensation, safety violations, discrimination, family and medical leave, and more.
@ghostpaw said in Racism and harassment. What to do when it happens?:
Nice straw man attempt, but we aren't talking about the government coming in to limit free speech. Free speech is not the right to say whatever you like without others countering you. That is a common misconception. And the U.S. government DOES convict people based based on their words. Just look at people like Charles Manson or Michelle Carter.
Words do harm people. The saying "words can never hurt me" is grossly misguided. Work a crisis line for a while and listen to some of the verbal abuse people have endured from the people around them. I learned a lot through that experience. Words can absolutely devastate a person. Especially when they are seemingly endorsed by others who could intervene. Luckily, words can also help lift others up.
Involuntary manslaughter is not the same as offending someone. Oh man...
@trenix90 said in Racism and harassment. What to do when it happens?:
Involuntary manslaughter is not the same as offending someone. Oh man...
Agreed, but the argument some of you are making is "it is just words" and free speech. I'm showing that it is not nearly that simple.
@ghostpaw said in Racism and harassment. What to do when it happens?:
@trenix90 said in Racism and harassment. What to do when it happens?:
In the real world, your boss, customers, and everyone, will not have any regard to your feelings whatsoever.
In the real world your boss might not care, but the U. S. Government and general voting public does:
Labor laws and worker protection | USAGov
![Labor laws and worker protection | USAGov]()
Learn about employment laws that cover wrongful discharge, workers' compensation, safety violations, discrimination, family and medical leave, and more.
"Petty slights, annoyances, and isolated incidents (unless extremely serious) will not rise to the level of illegality." Also I am against the excessive government regulations at the workplace. Keep regulating them, see how far we will go as a society by doing so.
Cmon it's a game,
I play games to get away with the people that offend others, those that easily get offended and those that look to get offended to get some limelight. Just shut up and play the game and take this crud out of the forums please, roll on game launch so i'll be busy playing rather than coming here in the 'hope' i'll read something constructive.
And for those that get offended easily why the hell play a PVP game, they are ALWAYS loud, brash, people get carried away, tempers flare, people say/do things they wouldn't ordinarily do in RL (in most cases) If things go far you can always report people and tell the devs 'where the naughty internet touched you'.
@ghostpaw said in Racism and harassment. What to do when it happens?:
Nice straw man attempt, but we aren't talking about the government coming in to limit free speech. Free speech is not the right to say whatever you like without others countering you. That is a common misconception. And the U.S. government DOES convict people based based on their words. Just look at people like Charles Manson or Michelle Carter.
Words do harm people. The saying "words can never hurt me" is grossly misguided. Work a crisis line for a while and listen to some of the verbal abuse people have endured from the people around them. I learned a lot through that experience. Words can absolutely devastate a person. Especially when they are seemingly endorsed by others who could intervene. Luckily, words can also help lift others up.
Bad example, she was arrested and convicted for manslaughter charges, meaning she knowingly allowed someone to hurt/kill themselves, and helped carry it out. Read the article. She wasn't arrested and convicted based on her actions, she was arrested/convicted based on in-actions.
@ant-heuser-kush said in Racism and harassment. What to do when it happens?:
@trenix90 said in Racism and harassment. What to do when it happens?:
@ant-heuser-kush said in Racism and harassment. What to do when it happens?:
@trenix90 Oh, yes. I've been through far worse things than just death threats in a video game... physical, mental, you name it. It has happened to me. That's why I am the way I am now. I never had anyone to step in for me. I just had to suck it up.
So yeah, words will get my blood boiling. I don't even talk (because I'm traumatized), but when I open my mouth it's usually never a good thing. Video games are not the real world... people use video games to get away from the real world.
Harassment comes in many forms... verbally harass someone at work and tell them to grow up. Let me know how long it took you to get fired.
I don't know what to say besides that you should seriously toughen up and reevaluate your life better if words and people online have somehow impacted your life in a negative way. As you said, video games are NOT the real world, but you treat it as if it is. I never take anything seriously inside gaming, except maybe when I'm competitive. Also for the verbal harassment at work is just so ridiculous too.
Go to work and do nothing and look at your boss and say you're not going to do anything. See how fast he'll verbally harass you or fire you from the job. Have you did customer service? Oh boy, you'd love the verbal abuse there. I mean you basically get paid to be verbally abused by customers, lol.
I'm glad you find this amusing. But I know first hand how detrimental words can be. I don't need to toughen up or reevaluate anything. You just worry about yourself. This exchange is over. You don't know what I've been through and I'm going to get p****d. Since I was banned once already for cussing someone on here out... I need to walk away before I let you ruin my day. See, now I have to censor you and avoid you like most other people.
An example of how I did absolutely nothing wrong and you want to verbally abuse me because I said lol from finding it hilarious that I got verbally abused by customers at a job that revolved around customer service. Notice that the people who want to regulate others, are the ones who should be regulated themselves.
Same happend to me in the Final Beta. I was called a H****r lover, n**i and other disgusting things of my teammate after maybe 10 minutes. I left him alone and did not report him. @Trenix90 I dont think, that this makes the world better but I do it like you say. But it is not right either...
@holy-mccloy said in Racism and harassment. What to do when it happens?:
Same happend to me in the Final Beta. I was called a H****r lover, n**i and other disgusting things of my teammate after maybe 10 minutes. I left him alone and did not report him. @Trenix90 I dont think, that this makes the world better but I do it like you say. But it is not right either...
I agree, it's not right. But I do believe they should have the right to say it. I do agree that racism, insulting players, and so on, is wrong. I 100% agree, not arguing against that at all. I just don't believe in the punishment aspect. I rather have people who cheat or exploit be punished. Unlike words or text, you can't do anything to stop cheaters.
Interesting arguments in here. Free Speech (on the American side of things) is protected in public spaces (the legal definition) ONLY. Your free speech is not protected in these forums, in a video game, at your place of employment, an individuals home, etc. That is why these other places are allowed to make rules you must abide by in order to utilize their product or space. Which includes speech rules, typically found under how you will conduct yourself as a term of agreement (in this case, the game and the forums, and XBL). Punishments for foul language, bullying, racist and sexist comments are not only legit, they are justified! Now, you don't have to like any of this, its a term of being licensed to utilize the software and XBL. Just the facts. Make sure you understand what Free Speech really means before you allow your mouth to get you in trouble.
@ant-heuser-kush said in Racism and harassment. What to do when it happens?:
@touchdown1504 said in Racism and harassment. What to do when it happens?:
Interesting arguments in here. Free Speech (on the American side of things) is protected in public spaces (the legal definition) ONLY. Your free speech is not protected in these forums, in a video game, at your place of employment, an individuals home, etc. That is why these other places are allowed to make rules you must abide by in order to utilize their product or space. Which includes speech rules, typically found under how you will conduct yourself as a term of agreement (in this case, the game and the forums, and XBL). Punishments for foul language, bullying, racist and sexist comments are not only legit, they are justified! Now, you don't have to like any of this, its a term of being licensed to utilize the software and XBL. Just the facts. Make sure you understand what Free Speech really means before you allow your mouth to get you in trouble.
People need to look up the Xbox ToS, it's right there in the agreement that we sign we signed up.
USE OF COMMUNICATION SERVICES
The Xbox.com Web Site may contain bulletin board services, chat areas, news groups, forums, communities, personal web pages, calendars, and/or other message or communication facilities designed to enable you to communicate with the public at large or with a group (collectively, "Communication Services"). You agree to use the Communication Services only to post, send and receive messages and material that are proper and related to the particular Communication Service. By way of example, and not as a limitation, you agree that when using a Communication Service, you will not:Defame, abuse, harass, stalk, threaten or otherwise violate the legal rights (such as rights of privacy and publicity) of others.
Publish, post, upload, distribute or disseminate any inappropriate, profane, defamatory, infringing, obscene, indecent or unlawful topic, name, material or information.
Publish, post, upload, distribute or disseminate any topic, name, material or information that incites discrimination, hate or violence towards one person or a group because of their belonging to a race, a religion or a nation, or that insults the victims of crimes against humanity by contesting the existence of those crimes.
Upload or otherwise make available files that contain images, photos, software or other material protected by intellectual property laws (or by rights of privacy of publicity) unless you own or control the rights thereto or have received all necessary consents.
Upload files that contain viruses, corrupted files, or any other similar software or programs that may damage the operation of another's computer.
Use any material or information, including images or photographs, which is made available through the Xbox.com Web Site in any manner that infringes any copyright, trademark, patent, trade secret, or other proprietary right of any party.
Advertise or offer to sell or buy any goods or services for any business purpose, unless such Communication Service specifically allows such messages.
Conduct or forward surveys, contests, pyramid schemes or chain letters.
Download any file posted by another user of a Communication Service that you know, or reasonably should know, cannot be legally distributed in such manner.
Falsify or delete any author attributions, legal or other proper notices or proprietary designations or labels of the origin or source of software or other material contained in a file that is uploaded.
Restrict or inhibit any other user from using and enjoying the Communication Services.
Violate any code of conduct or other guidelines which may be applicable for any particular Communication Service.
Harvest or otherwise collect information about others, including e-mail addresses, without their consent.
Violate any applicable laws or regulations.
Create a false identity for the purpose of misleading others.
Correct, but since no one here is an "internet cop" capable of banning people off XBL's services, all we can do is block and report. Those are the options given to us, those are the steps I recommend taking. That's all that can be said and done one the original topic.
Regarding people's opinions on IRL interactions of similar manner, opinions are like a****s, we all have one, and they usually stink.
some people are the type that if they were prank called and the person said mean things, they wouldn’t hang up the phone. They would sit there listening and taking it, or argue back with the PoS. Hang up the phone...
I think 99.9% of people agree it’s terrible, but what do you want any Dev to do about it? If someone says mean things to you and it hurts your feelings, block them, report, mute, whatever, and move on with your life. This was addressed in a video and they said, “block them and you’ll never see them again.”
This world gaming social change will take forever, so in the meantime, use the tools provided for you. Sticks and stones love.
This is what I do regarding offensive chat. https://support.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-on-windows/social/block-or-mute-other-player
Reporting rarely results in swift enough action, so I just mute them. Once you get used to how to mute players it only takes a few seconds out of your gameplay and they can never communicate with you again.
@zhin-murakami
When it happens laugh and move along. There's not a single word in any language that you could call me and offend me with. Honestly who cares what some random moron in a game calls you?
You gave that guy the exact reaction he was looking for by getting butthurt over it. Trust me he doesn't care about a XBL warning or communication suspension.
No one was disputing using the block and report feature. It was the "So what? Get over it and get thicker skin! Freedom! Words can't hurt you." response that I was addressing. It's invalidating. The tone of online communication feels like it has been growing worse over the years (this could just be my own perception) and at some point I feel it is appropriate to say, "That's enough! It's not okay!"
@ant-heuser-kush no, honestly I wasn’t referring to anyone in particular. I should edit out the “thread” part. It’s grown. I thought this thread was dead and I started getting mentioned again :)
This thread has been locked. Personal attacks, namecalling and insults are not acceptable in the Sea of Thieves Forums. Repeatedly ignoring warning from Deckhands, Global Moderators and Rare Employees will result in a Forum ban.
You can report players who are displaying toxic behaviour through Xbox Live and by submitting a Support ticket to our Customer Service Team.
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Freedom of Speech - According to Ghostbusters
Judge finds Michelle Carter guilty of manslaughter in texting suicide case | CNN
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