Server Hopping Reapers

@greatfailure82 said in Server Hopping Reapers:

i always had the ability to lower my emissary or go to the other side of the map knowing i can get to an outpost before the reaper gets anywhere near before the reaper hit level 5 by tracking them on the map.

And this here is why this feature is being kept and observed, rather than immediately patched out. As soon as you drop a reaper flag, you become visible, and to everyone, it's a race against time to finish, sell, and drop their emissary.
What is the point of running Reaper, and working up to grade 5, if everyone is going to drop their flag before it's useful?

The Portal trick has made Reaper 5 viable and worth it. before, you ran reaper, got up to 5, sank an emissary or two, then the whole server goes dead and there's no emissaries to hunt because everyone lowered and left. With the portal, you have a chance to continue your session instead of having to just do PVE or leaving the game. It genuinely has given Reapers the perfect buff.

Before, you were at the mercy of the wind if your dead server would merge you with some emissaries (e.g. Reaper 5's could "silently" merge anyway, that was never new) Just now it can be done manually, ergo making the session more worthwhile. I AGREE that perhaps there should be some cue, or warning. A subtle noise; whisper's on the wind, or some kind of notification, but nothing that is a dead giveaway.

Furthermore, the portal trick ISN'T exclusive to reapers. If you get to grade 5 Athena, and see a reaper 5 on the map, you can sell, and Portal hop to escape, if you really don't want to risk it. The portal trick benefits everybody, not just Reapers. And since going through a portal also drops your flag anyway, if you get chased and decide to portal, the Reapers get your flag, and you escape at whatever grade you were. Everyone wins.

I think Portals were an unintended blessing in disguise, and while yes there may need to be some balancing, i hope they stay, i love what they bring to the table.

Does it effect you? No

Think of as a skeleton ship that randomly spawns on you. But worse XD

Way I also see it. If they can use it, so can we to escape.

The Server Hopping Reapers sounds like a good name for an indie band.

@greatfailure82 said in Server Hopping Reapers:

I dont understand how the devs thought this was a good idea or it hasn't been fixed yet, allowing people to server hop with emissary intact by starting the pirates life tall tale and then cancelling is a joke, especially as a level 5 reaper.

before if i (or anyone) was doing any kind of PvE content with an emissary up i had to be aware of reapers on the map that could track me, fair enough thats part of the game nothing wrong with that, however i always had the ability to lower my emissary or go to the other side of the map knowing i can get to an outpost before the reaper gets anywhere near before the reaper hit level 5 by tracking them on the map. now you have to watch the map table 24/7 because a level 5 reaper can appear out of thin air and gun straight for you.

this has to be on some kind of to fix list right ?

They didn't "think it was a good idea" so much as "didn't think about it".

Then, when streamers started doing it, they said "oh, I guess we'll allow it because who gives a flying F bomb how bad it is for the game if streamers are doing it we are going to allow it."

@silentkiller646 said in Server Hopping Reapers:

Furthermore, the portal trick ISN'T exclusive to reapers.

Reapers are the only faction that keeps there lvl 5 bonus after using a portal. Allow each other faction to re-buy their lvl 5 voyage after each hop and you'll have a point.

@burnbacon said in Server Hopping Reapers:

Does it effect you? No

Think of as a skeleton ship that randomly spawns on you. But worse XD

How are these sentences not DIRECT contradictions?

@cptphteven That doesn't mean the trick still does not benefit others. You still get to keep your level 5 flag, and you get to escape the Reaper. The Reapers lvl 5 bonus and the lvl 5 voyages are also on two different playing fields (i.e. Seeing other emissaries doesn't always guarantee success or loot, nor does portal hopping guarantee new emissaries. Lvl 5 Voyages WILL give you what you want, at the cost of having to stay on one server).

Not that you don't also have a point, if cancelled by portals, it makes sense that emissaries SHOULD be able to restart it, however to equate the two isn't entirely fair, nor is it to throw out my point for that one reason. Plus, there is an element of being prepared, if you think/know you'll need to portal, you have to choose whether to start your lvl 5 voyage or not. I somewhat feel that allowing you to restart your level 5 voyage upon entering a new server could encourage running just a little too much. If you've already claimed it and want your level 5 loot, you have to make peace with fighting for it, selling what you have and portal-ing, or sinking.

@cptphteven said in Server Hopping Reapers:

Then, when streamers started doing it, they said "oh, I guess we'll allow it because who gives a flying F bomb how bad it is for the game if streamers are doing it we are going to allow it."

The Dev's are monitoring it's affect for a reason. It was never just "because streamers started doing it", and they do NOT disregard it's potential effects. Changing servers from the process was an intended feature from the very beginning. We may see changes or updates to it in the future, but as of right now, it doesn't seem to have had as negative an effect as you make it out to have had, the dev's like the applications and are continuing to keep an eye on it.

@silentkiller646 said in Server Hopping Reapers:

@cptphteven said in Server Hopping Reapers:

Then, when streamers started doing it, they said "oh, I guess we'll allow it because who gives a flying F bomb how bad it is for the game if streamers are doing it we are going to allow it."

The Dev's are monitoring it's affect for a reason. It was never just "because streamers started doing it", and they do NOT disregard it's potential effects. Changing servers from the process was an intended feature from the very beginning. We may see changes or updates to it in the future, but as of right now, it doesn't seem to have had as negative an effect as you make it out to have had, the dev's like the applications and are continuing to keep an eye on it.

You can say that, but I don't believe you. I absolutely believe that the only reason they didn't crack down on it is because some of the big streamers adopted it.

As for "it hasn't had a huge effect" that's just wrong, the rate of level 5 reaper encounters has skyrocketed. This is, at a fundamental level, the same problem as would be introduced if they made a built in way to launch on server alliances (or PvE servers). It's enabling a mode of play that is exclusively PvP, that is bad for a PvPvE game for exactly the same reasons that a mode of play that is excluviely PvE would be.

@silentkiller646 said in Server Hopping Reapers:

however to equate the two isn't entirely fair,

Literally the only point players arguing in favor of this have is "at last we can finally use our lvl 5 bonus". You shouldn't be able to rebuy your level 5 bonus ad infinitum. Period.

Athena shouldn't be able to, and neither should reapers.

@cptphteven You can choose not to believe me, i'm not going to demand you take what i say as gospel, but from my experience with the feature in insiders, it wasn't a fluke. And what is the problem with keeping and working around a potential feature just because streamers popularized it?

"This is, at a fundamental level, the same problem as would be introduced if they made a built in way to launch on server alliances (or PvE servers)."

This is a HEAVY exaggeration and almost completely unrelated, and you know it. As i said in my original posts, there was almost no point running Reapers cause no one would bother doing emissaries on the same server. It would go stale quickly and the session would die. There is actually now a merit to reaching Reaper level 5, and again, it re-invigorates their play session. Hence why the rate has "skyrocketed" because Reapers are worth it now.
The reapers ARE the PVP faction, yes, but using that logic, all the other factions are PURELY PVE. How come the 4 PVE factions get defended, but the PVP faction doesn't? Because it's PVP? You agree this game is PVPVE, so why shouldn't you be sometimes forced to engage in PVP when you're doing your PVE? That's the risk. Pirates. It's not enabling a mode of play that is exclusively PVP, it's another facet to the PVPVE.

@cptphteven You don't "buy" your reaper bonus. The Reapers are unique. You drop a reaper flag, and you are ALWAYS visible to other players. Only when you reach level 5 are ONLY EMISSARIES visible, the trade-in to being visible to everyone. Enabling the Reapers very gameplay existence.

Furthermore, what about when you reach level 5 in GH/OoS/Merch/Athenas, claim your level 5 quest, DROP the grade 5 flag, do the quest and get back up to level 5 for another quest? You get the bonus payout of giving in your flag, AND you get to do another level 5 quest. Reapers do not have an ability like that, they must stay at level 5. And, again, when a reaper reached level 5 before, everyone would leave, and they would lose their abilities use anwyay, there would be no one to hunt. It is of my opinion, the portals brought the reapers up to a MUCH more even playing field, AND kept it even for the other factions too.

@silentkiller646 said in Server Hopping Reapers:

. It's not enabling a mode of play that is exclusively PVP, it's another facet to the PVPVE.

If you aren't going to be honest about this I'm not going to keep talking to you about it.

The Reaper ship portaling is 100% about playing a game mode that is exclusively PvP.

@cptphteven What do you mean be honest about this? There's no need to be like this, if you want to drop the subject, you need not reply, and move on.

Again, the Reaper faction IS the PVP faction. It is part of the game, and if people want to PVP, they will PVP. And AGAIN, how come you are allowed to exclusively PVE all you want but if someone wants to PVP or find PVP, it shouldn't be allowed? The Reapers are intended as a PVP facet of this PVPVE game. You aren't playing a PVE game, Reapers aren't playing a PVP game, you're both playing a PVPVE game, you are just playing your respective elements of it. Tools not Rules. Portals are tools that you can use how you see fit, whether you are Reapers or not.

@greatfailure82 I did agree there should perhaps be some warning, so savvy people are aware and can check the map for the risk, but i assure you i am not purposefully misunderstanding, i apologize if i AM at all misunderstanding, it's just what i'm taking away from the debate.

I said in my original post that the dev's are monitoring and watching the effects this has on gameplay, so ultimately this whole situation is up to their whims. Our opinions are merely opinions, that we have the freedom of discussing here.

I misworded that, i never meant to imply there had been a negative effect, that's my bad. There has been an effect, sure, and i would like to hear what your opinion on the effect is, but i do not believe it is game breaking or entirely unfair. And i would like to make clear, i don't run reapers. I do not often seek out PVP, this was never a "selfish and idiotic" stance to take because it is not a stance that i benefit from in my average session. That language is unnecessary and unappreciated, too.
I am looking from a purely objective gameplay loop perspective, and i feel that as it is, this has worked as a nice (yes, perhaps too nice) buff for Reapers, since there was little use for a tier 5 flag as everyone sells and leaves at the first sign of one, even i do it. I agree, there should be a warning, a la Server merge poem (which could also land you in a server with a reaper 5, and works as a warning) but, that will be something decided on in due time, depending on what is observed by the feature's impact. I think ultimately, we should all just agree to disagree, and see where this feature and its repercussions go.

@leftypirate99 Well to be fair, they did that with the sword dash. An originally unintended input/occurrence turned feature, because of its affect on gameplay, so you've got a point that they aren't EXEMPT from that sorta thing, though Rare are pretty honourable as far as companies go, i don't think they would save face in this manner or on this scale. If it WAS unintended, then yes, it would be nice to have been made aware, but they probably would have mentioned it, however it's clear they want to see where it leads, unintentional or not. I do hope we get an update on it soon enough.

Let's just put it this way: Gold Hoarders (as an example) cannot opt to play pure pve. They have to deal with both aspects.

Reapers used to have to deal with both aspects too, now however they don't. Using portals they can reliably play an extended session doing nothing but PvP.

If you can't acknowledge that simple fact, you are not looking at the situation critically.

This is not balance, and it is not good for the game.

@cptphteven They cannot opt to play pure PVE but they can center their playstyle and session around their PVE. If someone doesn't want to PVP, the portals still exist for them to use as well to escape to a fresh session with their flag intact, and potentially without the risk of a Reaper. It is not beneficial to only Reapers.

Arguably Reapers also still have to engage with PVE; Kraken's, Meg's, any world events they decide to do, Sirens in the water, etc. are all ways the PVE influence a Reapers session. People in this game are allowed to choose how they play, you cannot make the choice for them. If people WANT to exclusively PVP, then you are powerless to stop that choice, your power lies in what YOU decide to do about it in response; Fight, run, portal, hide, you have options too. I respect and understand it can be a nuisance, nothing is more annoying than an aggressive tenacious Reaper, but on the flipside, it can also annoying grinding world events because everyone on your server dropped their emissary flags.

And just because they can extend their session doing what the Reaper faction is designed to do, isn't a bad thing, much like a Gold hoarder using the portal to escape a Reaper is extending their PVE session, rather than having to fight, constantly run, or risk sinking.
If ONLY reapers could portal hop i would 100% be on your side, but the balance is that everyone can portal hop and everyone can keep their flag. There should be some form of a warning when ANYONE merges in, but it seems the feature is here to stay nonetheless. It would be nice to hear more from the dev's about it's standing.

@silentkiller646

Just stop. You and I both know that the benefit of portal hopping for Reapers is orders of magnitude better than the benefit of portal hopping for anyone else. The constant pretending that running away (and abandoning all your progress on your current voyage, and any bottle quests or emissary voyages you have in inventory) is even remotely on par with being able to respin servers at whim, without losing anything, as a level five reaper is even on the same order of magnitude is peak disingenuous.

Argue that you don't care that it's not balanced, fine. But don't sit here and constantly pretend like it's a totally balanced mexhanic.

@cptphteven I never was pretending it was totally balanced, i've been saying this whole time some form of warning would be an ample trade-in to the system. I've been arguing that it's a step toward balancing the issue with people not playing on servers with Reapers. We all see one, rush to sell, then lower our emissary flag, that is not fair on the Reapers gameplay loop, and argubaly has been one of the crowning reasons that "Running Reapers" is the phenomenon it is, i have just simply been arguing that the new portal system helps mitigate that.

The "constant pretending" is simply my opinion to accommodate those that DON'T want to turn and fight for their loot. If you do not want to engage in the PVP WHATSOEVER, then the system is there to use.
Do you not think that abandoning a quest at the cost of keeping your emissary flag is a valid tradeoff? You still get the 1.5x multiplier, you just need to start a new quest. If it is a grade 5 voyage, sure, that is highly unfortunate as you cannot rebuy them, and i agree there should be something in place for that.
But you either engage and fight for your loot, your quest, and your flag, or run away, which portals massively help facilitate, at a cost. One method you risk sinking and losing said flag anyway, the other lets you KEEP the flag at the cost of whatever you were doing.

I agree, being able to enter a server and immediately see all active emissaries to gun for can be surprising and unfair on anyone not using their map table, or watching the horizon. Why not suggest ways of balancing the issue, rather than just sitting here calling it unbalanced?
Perhaps, for a time upon entering a new server, the reaper ship is unable to use their bonus, a 3 - 5 minute window at which they cannot immediately roll up on emissaries busy at their islands. Or, as discussed, a warning of sorts that would sway people to give their maps a check. The feature is here to stay as per the dev's wishes, we can only give feedback and provide reasoning to it's continued existence. Tell me how you would like to see this feature balanced.

But if you wish to drop this, then we are free too. If there is nothing productive to be gained or learned from a debate around its balancing, and it simply divulges into passive aggressively reiterating our points and opinions at eachother, then it's time to let the thread die.

@silentkiller646 said in Server Hopping Reapers:

I agree, being able to enter a server and immediately see all active emissaries to gun for can be surprising and unfair on anyone not using their map table, or watching the horizon.

And, here we are again with the disingenuous bull. It's unfair to people using the map and scanning the horizon also because you cannot be always doing that. It is not possible, nor should it be required. Yes, you have to pay attention, but you didn't need to literally have someone looking at the map the entire time.

This is the pretending I'm talking about. You're acting like players can just watch the map and the horizon and it's no big deal, but having to do that nonstop, instead of every minute or so, is a massive game difference.

As for "why not suggest ways to balance the issue"? I have. Let people portal with loot would balance the issue. Stripping emissary when you portal would balance the issue. Letting people rebuy (edit: for some reason my phone HATES the word rebuy and keeps changing it to rebuild) their lvl 5 emissary voyage would move towards balancing it.

Perhaps, for a time upon entering a new server, the reaper ship is unable to use their bonus, a 3 - 5 minute window at which they cannot immediately roll up on emissaries busy at their islands.

This is the first time I've seen this suggestion, and while I still don't like reapers being able to continuously refresh their lvl 5 bonus and not other factions, I'd at least be willing to play again with it. The main problems with the portaling is the instantaneous knowledge of where the emissaries are, and the at will and unrestricted nature of doing it.

Another option would be changing the reaper 5 benefit to include a special "reaper portal" the jumps reaper to another server - and make the other portals strip emissary entirely. Maybe put a short timer on the visibility on the new server. This would address the massive unbalance associated with reapers being able to effectively rebuy their emissary bonus over and over.

The reason server merges weren't an issue was that they were rare and uncontrollable.

The feature is here to stay as per the dev's wishes, we can only give feedback and provide reasoning to it's continued existence. Tell me how you would like to see this feature balanced.

That's actually not what the devs said. They said they are leaving it as is for now and watching it. But, even then some features get changed if there's enough problems or issues.

The fact is, though, leaving it as is will kill the game. It may not happen instantly, but it will kill it.

Another point worth addressing is play session length.

The way this interacts with a sub 2 hour session vs. A 6 hour session is massively different. Having your playsession interrupted for 45 minutes to an hour out of your 6 hour session feels invigorating. Having your playsession interrupted for 45 minutes to an hour of your 2 hour session feels oppressive.

The fundamental change resulting from the reaper portal is a massive increase in the encounter rate, which means that the number of short sessions that feel "oppressive" is way higher.

Only Rare actually knows, but I'd wager that most players do sub 3 hour sessions but most Reaper portal hoppers do 6+ hour sessions.

And, here we are again with the disingenuous bull. It's unfair to people using the map and scanning the horizon also because you cannot be always doing that. It is not possible, nor should it be required. Yes, you have to pay attention, but you didn't need to literally have someone looking at the map the entire time.
This is the pretending I'm talking about. You're acting like players can just watch the map and the horizon and it's no big deal, but having to do that nonstop, instead of every minute or so, is a massive game difference.

Please stop with the unnecessary passive aggressive digs about my own thoughts. Unnecessary.

When you're playing this game, the number one tip is to always keep an eye on the horizon. Even when you're on the island, you learn to adapt to scanning the horizon at every turn. When you reach a highpoint, you should stare out at the horizon as a quick check, when sailing, you spend your time at the wheel looking around. A safe consensus is it takes at least 5 minutes for a ship to reach you from the furthest point you can see it, as long as you keep an eye on the horizon with whatever you're doing whenever you can, you will at least see them coming.
BUT! You make a good point that less experienced players may not be savvy to this mindset, and that people shouldn't be expected to have their face glued to a table. Ergo, see my next points.

As for "why not suggest ways to balance the issue"? I have. Let people portal with loot would balance the issue. Stripping emissary when you portal would balance the issue. Letting people rebuy (edit: for some reason my phone HATES the word rebuy and keeps changing it to rebuild) their lvl 5 emissary voyage would move towards balancing it.

You did not suggest either of those yet, I HEAVILY disagree with portal-ing with loot, that would absolutely benefit runners wayy too much, and completely negate ANY advantages the portal brings to Reapers. Being able to portal away with your emissary flag and loot to a new server at the first sign of trouble is the definition of unbalanced. It would be like Red Sea-ing loot, but much worse.

But the idea of dropping emissary level is interesting. I disagree the flag should be dropped entirely, however, taking it down a peg seems like a good middle ground (e.g. Tier 5 - 4) This could solve both problems you highlight here. Reaper's can't immediately see Emissaries, and need to do PVE to quickly reach Tier 5, and it gives other players time to see a reaper on the map (like my timer suggestion), AND, if a GH, OoS, Merch, or Athena go through a portal, losing their quest, they have a chance to re-reach tier 5, and re-buy their lvl 5 voyage. That feels like a good trade, personally. It may end up simply exacerbating the problem of people leaving a server when they see a Reaper, but if there is enough of a problem with the current system, this is an approach i would be comfortable with Rare taking.

Perhaps, for a time upon entering a new server, the reaper ship is unable to use their bonus, a 3 - 5 minute window at which they cannot immediately roll up on emissaries busy at their islands.

This is the first time I've seen this suggestion, and while I still don't like reapers being able to continuously refresh their lvl 5 bonus and not other factions, I'd at least be willing to play again with it. The main problems with the portaling is the instantaneous knowledge of where the emissaries are, and the at will and unrestricted nature of doing it.

Agreed, other factions should be able to claim back their bonus if Reapers are allowed to keep theirs with no repurcussions. See back to my suggestion earlier.

Another option would be changing the reaper 5 benefit to include a special "reaper portal" the jumps reaper to another server - and make the other portals strip emissary entirely. Maybe put a short timer on the visibility on the new server. This would address the massive unbalance associated with reapers being able to effectively rebuy their emissary bonus over and over.

The reason servererges weren't an issue was that they were rare and uncontrollable.

I can understand that, turn the Sea Dogs Arch into a Reaper portal perhaps (also has the benefit of being nearby Reaper's Hideout, the last stop before a reaper hops servers) But then again, this would be unbalanced in the Reapers favour, if regular portals dropped your emissary, then only Reapers would benefit from this portal. This wouldn't necessarily solve anything in the long run.

The feature is here to stay as per the dev's wishes, we can only give feedback and provide reasoning to it's continued existence. Tell me how you would like to see this feature balanced.

That's actually not what the devs said. They said they are leaving it as is for now and watching it. But, even then some features get changed if there's enough problems or issues.

You are correct, that was an unnecessary assumption on my part. As it is so far, they have not highlighted any significant problems or issues, but like i said, it would be nice to hear about its current standing.

The fact is, though, leaving it as is will kill the game. It may not happen instantly, but it will kill it.

Only time will tell, but i can only disagree. People have claimed XYZ will kill the game for years, and it's ever growing. I think this game is a lot more difficult to kill than people give it credit for, thanks to the very specific niche and experience the game provides. If it has the chance to kill the game, then the dev's care enough to come out and do what must be done.

@silentkiller646 said in Server Hopping Reapers:

BUT! You make a good point that less experienced players may not be savvy to this mindset, and that people shouldn't be expected to have their face glued to a table. Ergo, see my next points.

It has nothing to do with experience vs. inexperienced. experienced players should also not be expected to have their face glued to the map table either.

You did not suggest either of those yet, I HEAVILY disagree with portal-ing with loot, that would absolutely benefit runners wayy too much, and completely negate ANY advantages the portal brings to Reapers. Being able to portal away with your emissary flag and loot to a new server at the first sign of trouble is the definition of unbalanced. It would be like Red Sea-ing loot, but much worse.

I have suggested it multiple times, in other threads. This topic has come up a lot (shock!) and it bleeds together. Regardless - yes portaling with loot would negate the benefit that the reapers got. that's why it's balanced. The current state is unbalanced, Reaper ships have an INSANE benefit, if you don't want to remove that benefit you have to give an INSANE benefit to the other factions to get a balanced state.

Also note that I don't think that's a good solution. I do, however, think it's the only way to get balance back if the current Reaper portaling stays as is. Proper balance can't be achieved by lifting everything to overpowered status.

But the idea of dropping emissary level is interesting. I disagree the flag should be dropped entirely, however, taking it down a peg seems like a good middle ground (e.g. Tier 5 - 4) This could solve both problems you highlight here. Reaper's can't immediately see Emissaries, and need to do PVE to quickly reach Tier 5, and it gives other players time to see a reaper on the map (like my timer suggestion), AND, if a GH, OoS, Merch, or Athena go through a portal, losing their quest, they have a chance to re-reach tier 5, and re-buy their lvl 5 voyage. That feels like a good trade, personally. It may end up simply exacerbating the problem of people leaving a server when they see a Reaper, but if there is enough of a problem with the current system, this is an approach i would be comfortable with Rare taking.

Sure, I agree that's one good solution. It definitely solves the problem of "I'm on an island digging up a treasure box and suddenly there is a lvl 5 Reaper three squares away already bearing down on me" - which is the main problem.

Another option would be changing the reaper 5 benefit to include a special "reaper portal" the jumps reaper to another server - and make the other portals strip emissary entirely. Maybe put a short timer on the visibility on the new server. This would address the massive unbalance associated with reapers being able to effectively rebuy their emissary bonus over and over.

The reason servererges weren't an issue was that they were rare and uncontrollable.

I can understand that, turn the Sea Dogs Arch into a Reaper portal perhaps (also has the benefit of being nearby Reaper's Hideout, the last stop before a reaper hops servers) But then again, this would be unbalanced in the Reapers favour, if regular portals dropped your emissary, then only Reapers would benefit from this portal. This wouldn't necessarily solve anything in the long run.

The feature is here to stay as per the dev's wishes, we can only give feedback and provide reasoning to it's continued existence. Tell me how you would like to see this feature balanced.

What it would solve is the frequency. If you wanted to take a second reaper portal you would need to voluntarily lower your flag, re-earn a level 5, and then portal again. Much like the involuntary server merge, it happening occasionally is not the problem. It happening all the time is.

At a fundamental level I think we both agree that A) it's not balanced currently, and B) there are ways to include portals and still be balanced. Where we disagree is whether the current state is "close enough" to balanced.

I have reached the point since the change that I don't play anymore outside of jumping on to do the tall tales with friends. The reason why is specifically the reaper portal issue. I may be one of the most vocal about it here, but I can guarantee you I'm not the only one. I tried last Sunday after a week and a half break figuring "maybe it's not that bad". Threw up a Merchant emissary on a "clean" server, and sailed to a shipwreck within sight of the outpost to start things out. Dive down, swim back up and check the map again and... there's a level 5 reaper bearing down on me a square and a half away.

I just logged off, and haven't had any desire to go back since then.

yes portaling with loot would negate the benefit that the reapers got. that's why it's balanced. The current state is unbalanced, Reaper ships have an INSANE benefit, if you don't want to remove that benefit you have to give an INSANE benefit to the other factions to get a balanced state. Also note that I don't think that's a good solution. I do, however, think it's the only way to get balance back if the current Reaper portaling stays as is. Proper balance can't be achieved by lifting everything to overpowered status.

I just feel that it swings the balance too far to the other side. Portal-ing with loot is just too much, and completely removes any and all risk. Adding it would be almost akin to adding PVE servers. It would leak into all facets of the game, and would be too overpowered full stop, not just for running away, or hopping servers. It would become the end meta, and could kill PVP as it currently is entirely. The biggest punishment in this game is sinking, and outside of a few rare PVE based occurences, being able to portal with loot would nigh eliminate the risk of sinking.

But the idea of dropping emissary level is interesting. I disagree the flag should be dropped entirely, however, taking it down a peg seems like a good middle ground (e.g. Tier 5 - 4) This could solve both problems you highlight here. Reaper's can't immediately see Emissaries, and need to do PVE to quickly reach Tier 5, and it gives other players time to see a reaper on the map (like my timer suggestion), AND, if a GH, OoS, Merch, or Athena go through a portal, losing their quest, they have a chance to re-reach tier 5, and re-buy their lvl 5 voyage. That feels like a good trade, personally. It may end up simply exacerbating the problem of people leaving a server when they see a Reaper, but if there is enough of a problem with the current system, this is an approach i would be comfortable with Rare taking.

Sure, I agree that's one good solution. It definitely solves the problem of "I'm on an island digging up a treasure box and suddenly there is a lvl 5 Reaper three squares away already bearing down on me" - which is the main problem.

Glad you agree, it feels like a healthy middle ground between it all, if it is required. Makes Reapers need to PVE* and delays their bearing down, and allows emissaries to re-buy their quest (perhaps only IF the previous was cancelled by a portal, as to prevent grade 5 quest stacking)

What it would solve is the frequency. If you wanted to take a second reaper portal you would need to voluntarily lower your flag, re-earn a level 5, and then portal again. Much like the involuntary server merge, it happening occasionally is not the problem. It happening all the time is.

Then perhaps the ultimate fix, or at least one in a series, would be to add a cooldown to the use of portals. 5/10 minutes where you are unable to re-enter one (provided there are no bugs with portals that would facilitate entering again) This would cut back the amount of portal hopping quite a bit, and even with just a small timer like that, you would still be forced to stay on the server and find something to do, or wait it out. The cooldown may sway people using them too, until a server is COMPLETELY exhausted, and they need to jump ship.

At a fundamental level I think we both agree that A) it's not balanced currently, and B) there are ways to include portals and still be balanced. Where we disagree is whether the current state is "close enough" to balanced.

Agreed, it needs work still, it is a fresh feature after all. And yeah, we can debate all day every day but we have our opinions, it's about finding middleground.

I have reached the point since the change that I don't play anymore outside of jumping on to do the tall tales with friends. The reason why is specifically the reaper portal issue. I may be one of the most vocal about it here, but I can guarantee you I'm not the only one. I tried last Sunday after a week and a half break figuring "maybe it's not that bad". Threw up a Merchant emissary on a "clean" server, and sailed to a shipwreck within sight of the outpost to start things out. Dive down, swim back up and check the map again and... there's a level 5 reaper bearing down on me a square and a half away.
I just logged off, and haven't had any desire to go back since then.

That sounds like the most unfortunate way to come back, so i can completely understand why you feel strongly about the issue. This game can be VERY random about what kind of session you're going to get, it's about how one has to adapt to current standings before fixes or changes come in.
Personally, I have played on and off throughout the weeks since A Pirate's Life was introduced and i don't believe i have directly observed an instance of a sudden Reaper 5 once. The only reapers i have encountered have been fresh server spawns. Of course i am not stating my experience as the norm, but from my own experiences i have formed my opinions, as have you. We can agree to disagree on a lot of things, but we do agree there is still a road ahead to balancing and implementing the feature.

@silentkiller646 said in Server Hopping Reapers:

We can agree to disagree on a lot of things, but we do agree there is still a road ahead to balancing and implementing the feature.

Sure, but I think the fundamental underlying disagreement is whether players should be able to log in and reliably do an exclusively PvP playsession every time. At it's core, that is what the current reaper portaling offers.

That's just as bad as the doomsday scenario you described with allowing loot through where PvE players are allowed to effectively skip PvP entirely.

The game is about balance. You should never be able to reach a state where you can ignore one or the other, but Reaper portalling allows it.

@cptphteven The way i see it, everyone can choose to rely on PVP or PVE, but there will always be the opposite at any moments notice. Reapers still have to deal with Meg's, Kraken's, skelly ships, and world events (the first three can also directly influence their PVP).
They can try to play exclusively PVP but the PVE will find them, they aren't exempt from it, much like how people can play exclusively PVE, but PVP will find them too. Hence the game being PVPVE. More PVE threats on the sea's would be nice, though.

@cptphteven

At least two crews are required for PvP. If the aggressor does not have a participating crew to PvP with, then there isn't any. This statement holds even more true now, since the defendant has a means of switching servers if they plan their escape correctly.

In my experience, we generally need to have some loot on board to be considered worthy of a battle by the defender, that usually means we have to do some PvE.

I run Reapers often. If there are no emissaries in our view, we give preference to megs and skeleton ships because they allow us to Grade up and give us supplies and loot.

Assuming that a PvP only session is now so much more viable just because this tunnel mechanic is in place is just not true, because PvE generally needs to happen anyway for us to be considered by an opponent.

@touchiertooth28

Chasing someone is PvP, even if they escape. Hunting players is PvP even if you don't manage to corner them into an engagement.

PvP does not only mean combat.

@cptphteven said in Server Hopping Reapers:

@touchiertooth28

Chasing someone is PvP, even if they escape. Hunting players is PvP even if you don't manage to corner them into an engagement.

PvP does not only mean combat.

By that logic, then what is the point of the below statement?

Sure, but I think the fundamental underlying disagreement is whether players should be able to log in and reliably do an exclusively PvP playsession every time. At it's core, that is what the current reaper portaling offers.

Since your definition of PvP also encompasses chasing someone and I can chase ships on any server, without having to use the tunnels of the damned, doesn't that make your point sort of moot?

Anyway, nitpicking aside. My point is that Reapers need to acquire loot in some way in order to get to level 5. Usually that encompasses doing some PvE because other ships will just want to run unless you have some treasure on board. Skeleton ships and megs are quick and easy attractive ways to get there.