Please Stop the Griefer Hate

Even the word "griefers" is totaly off imho. It is a PIRATE game and pirats do what's in their genes. Nothing more nothing less. If poeple don't like it, maybe a fairy game would be better for them?

And this right here is why the community is so toxic and the game will fail.

The game at times requires thought. Tactics. But above all imagination. Pulling off the ridiculous is the greatest satisfaction you can have. Outwitting a “griefer” is very rewarding.

@mcstabbypants What is your argument? I don't want to be confrontational or "toxic" but I really want to know why you thinking putting limits on the game is a good thing?

The clue is in the name "griefers", person(s) who causes grief.

They are oxygen thieves and a waste of time to engage with. I will continue to hate them.

I hope their armpits (and other delicate parts) are infested with the fleas of a thousand camels.

@jokerslaughgas You and everyone posting on here is my argument. l**o I have never heard such silly obvious attempts at justifying terrible behavior. I mean you didn't even try very hard.

@themuckypaw I don't disagree, but don't you find that sense of joy when you thwart one. You have to admit that's a good feeling

@mrbrocksego That's like saying this is the least painful stab wound. Griefing is still awful and toxic by it's very definition, and claiming it improves a games is ridiculously transparent as an attempt to justify his own awful behavior. l**o

@mcstabbypants ??? Argument? You can't just say "Everyone here" I'd like to get an actual dialog going with pro vs con of having griefers. My argument is that the freedom is ultimately worth more then the limitations created to limit griefers

@jokerslaughgas I'm not going to argue the pros of griefers. There are no pros. That's like asking me to argue the pros of the flu. It's just absurd to claim there are pros in the first place.

@mcstabbypants so what do you consider "terrible behavior" in terms of "griefers" in this game? I seriously like to understand what you mean by that.

The only annoyance I get is when people join the own ship's crew, don't have a mic, don't communicate and start s**7 like sailing the ship into a rock and leave.

But when I get attacked by another crew and chased, that is perfectly fine for me, at any time. I love trying to get rid of them, even if it takes a long time. And if they succeed, well, I feel they deserve it. And that includes boarding ships / blowing s**7 up for fun / stealing treasures, bad humor.

@drakebg757 Cool, I see your point,

Griefers vs PVP Players, you draw the line at people attacking you just to kill you over and over again for no gain other then limiting your progress.

The developers have made it so you spawn farther away from where you died. You have the ability to not go back or towards where you were just killed? What would make you happy?

@jokerslaughgas I don't mind the 'honest' pirate(s) who try to sink you to steal your loot, but the people that kill/sink you when you've been parked at an outpost (hence with nothing to take) or try to chase you all over over the map simply to annoy you, ... well they all deserve things which I refrain from mentioning for fear of being censored.

The other day my friend and I, in a sloop had the latter, being chased from an outpost (so obviously we had nothing) and no matter what I did they would not leave us alone. After about 15 mins I said to them "why are you chasing us when we have nothing to steal" and they replied "for the enjoyment we get from it", which is obviously coming from the mind of a moronic troll. So we scuttled our ship in the red zone so that they couldn't even get our supplies and joined a new server. People like that don't even deserve to be engaged with. I can only assume it comes from the lack of attention and love that their parents didn't provide.

@jokerslaughgas even that, the "spawncampers" on your ship. I enjoy them also, because it is possible to get 4 rats of board: I see that as a challange.
And if people don't dare fighting them. Well, just rejoin the game and wuhuuu, new server, new hope.

@sanssariph

I like that idea of a reaper system, I just don't like the idea of safe havens or no PVP zones. Griefers are just a fact of life if you want a truly open a free virtual world. I'm not saying I side with Griefer only any actual action to prevent players from attacking each other limits the whole game then making it better

@themuckypaw I like both: your idea how to use the "red-sea" as a chance to not "share" your loot. Just great!
And also, I like chasing and sinking boats, because... because! But I don't always do it. Sometimes I try to talk to other boats and see of we could team up. It's all by random chance ;)

@kranickel said in Please Stop the Griefer Hate:

@themuckypaw I like both: your idea how to use the "red-sea" as a chance to not "share" your loot. Just great!
And also, I like chasing and sinking boats, because... because! But I don't always do it. Sometimes I try to talk to other boats and see of we could team up. It's all by random chance ;)

I agree that you should have the right to do all of this, it creates memorable experiences.

@jokerslaughgas The main thing is that people slam the word "Griefer" around like nothing and seem to have lost any resemblance what a griefer actually is.

Normally a Griefer is a Player who does something for the sole purpose of ruining someones day. The main diffrence to a regular PvP-Player is that a griefer will go on killing/annoying the other Player even if there is no Reward/ or doing so even costs himself money/ressources.

Want a classic example of it: In older MMOs for example some high level players waited in front of the main cities for new players. If they found their prey they would kill it just to annoy the player. Now the diffrence beetween a regular Bandit(PvPer) and the "Griefer" was that a normal Player would not attack new players simply because there was nothing to gain. Rewards for killing new players were nearly non-existent, since they didnt have much gold anyway. So the griefer just did it for the "fun" of ruining someones day.

Another example: Elite Dangerous - Griefers there are people who kill other pilots just for the pleasure of ruining their expierence. Here it is the same. They attack everyone, even people with no bounty, so they do not even get something out off attacking the other player. Most of the time they even waste their own money, because ammunition needs to be refilled and payed for. But that doesn't matter as long as they have their "fun" by ruining yours.

So with that in mind can you call anything in the game griefing? Not really. Even camping at Outposts and stealing your treassure is "normal" PvP, since he gets a reward for doing so. So they dont just ruin your expierence for nothing.

But i also have to break to you. There is nothing you can do against that. Or at least nothing you can do without killing the normal PvP-expierence for the Rest of the Players. Wanna implement a high Bounty system? wouldn't stop the griefer since he already had his fun and is mostly stifflling the normal PvP. And again some griefers aren't even repelled by the fact that griefing may cost them in game progress (see the Elite example) , they will gladly lose their own progress just to annoy you.

@kranickel Griefers spawn campers, brig use abusers that type of thing. The game is pvpve so getting sunk and losing loot ins't griefing. I would also count hackers though I don't think they are super common.

@funkefall29709 Agree, if you deny the Griefers by constraints you deny everyone else to live by those constraints. They are a necessary evil to deal with.

@mcstabbypants Thank you for the clarification. Well, I agree with you on the mentioned things. Maybe the spawn camper thing (i dont do that!) I see as a challange, but I would also say that this can be over-done by some, yes.

@jokerslaughgas

The problem with defending "griefing" (I'm not talking casual pvp) - is that if you try to make it an "accepted" part of the game, it's going to turn away anyone outside of that mindset.

Good example is DayZ.

"Spawn killing/KoS is part of the game, git gud".

There's currently only Roughly 2k users who (mostly) deny any faults with the game. That's less than 1% of the actual user base who purchased the game. Because they were more or less pushed away from those who wanted to run it into the ground as "Just Part of the game".

Edit: I'm not saying that it's the sole reason for the games decline - But it sure as hell didn't help.

@jokerslaughgas first let me say I am a PvPvE player and have no problem fighting other players. So I think the problem with PvP and all the hate is the risk/reward balance of PvP is completely broken. When I have no loot I have no fear in engaging other player because I have nothing to lose and everything to gain. On the flip side I avoid all engagements when loaded with treasure since losing it removes all the work and time I put into the game. Now there is a solution and it’s is basically give players 70%-80% xp on voyage completion and the remaining xp and all gold on turn ins. Here is the thread Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal. If you really read into it is a great way to stop the hate and may even encourage more PvP.

@kranickel To be fair on this game specifically you have to almost spawn camp to sink galleons so I wouldn't consider that griefing in this specific instance and the best way to defeat that if you are the galleon is wait on the ship of the damned until all four galleon players can come back at once.