Ship count and the dead seas dilemma

  • Before the ship count was dropped from 6 to 5, the seas didnt feel crowded, but they did feel lived in, it was uncommon to go a day on the seas without running into at least 1 other ship. After just a single ship reduction it seemed that the seas went from feeling alive and full, to becoming common that you may not see a single ship in an entire cross map voyage.

    When looking around various places i have seen a number of people say the seas feel dead, even servers with multiple emissaries it is difficult to find others. As well a few people who joined after the ship reduction have requested an increase in ship count because the seas seem empty to them.

    I do understand that the ship count was reduced by 1 to try and help server performance and possibly help hitreg, but i play on a very bare bones gaming pc with dated hardware that the newest gen consoles out perform, and when they reduced the ship count, i noticed no improvement to performance, and hitreg didnt appear to improve from it, so i do wonder why the ship count was never increased back to 6.

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  • because the last time they bumped it up it was pretty terrible and definitely was noticeably worse.

    6 ships won't fix anything that is actually wrong with the organic environment

    6 ships doesn't do anything about a couple of years of letting no risk/high reward run wild, which ran off a lot of people

    content spread out so people don't have to do the world event game anymore

    veterans were pushed out through significance being reduced and new players aren't attached to grinding commendations or milestones

    doesn't change how people play in a game where a significant amount of players no longer want to fight and the ones that do want to fight often avoid each other because they want to steal treasure not just fight to fight (even though they say they want to fight just to fight). There is also a social currency with "looking cool" during combat and those clips are much easier to create with a wide skill gap. A significant amount of content created in this game wasn't competitive, it was wrecking players that aren't skilled at and/or even interested in combat.

    ship increase doesn't address any of the core issues so it won't change what a server looks like, it'll just lead to even less world event action and even worse performance.

  • @wolfmanbush I dont remember a ship increase happening after the initial decrease. Its not so much a recommendation to fix all the core issues, so much noting how a 1 ship reduction seemed to make the seas appear a lot more empty than before, after the initial decrease, i got attacked a lot less, struggle to find other players, when that was never the case before the decrease.

  • @goldsmen said in Ship count and the dead seas dilemma:

    @wolfmanbush I dont remember a ship increase happening after the initial decrease. Its not so much a recommendation to fix all the core issues, so much noting how a 1 ship reduction seemed to make the seas appear a lot more empty than before, after the initial decrease, i got attacked a lot less, struggle to find other players, when that was never the case before the decrease.

    they tried 6 a while ago for a short time

  • @wolfmanbush said in Ship count and the dead seas dilemma:

    they tried 6 a while ago for a short time

    I must have missed it. Now the question in my head is what has changed that caused 6 ships to cause issue, it didnt originally, and when they made the switch there was no increase in performance.

  • @goldsmen said in Ship count and the dead seas dilemma:

    @wolfmanbush said in Ship count and the dead seas dilemma:

    they tried 6 a while ago for a short time

    I must have missed it. Now the question in my head is what has changed that caused 6 ships to cause issue, it didnt originally, and when they made the switch there was no increase in performance.

    I think they switched back to 5 within a day (so a scheduled patch on Thursday and a patch on the same day or Friday to change the limit to 5 again).

    More things going on I guess: the possibility of two forts active at the same time (or FotD and world event), sea forts, the sunken kingdom (and having 20+ treasures after doing a treasury or shrine), Pirate's Life TTs that don't require a portal, possibility of having 100+ commodity crates on one ship (plus whatever other things they pick up) to deliver to outposts, Legend of the Veil, Adventures. Perhaps even having three zoos on one server (3 galleons with four pets each).

    It may not be having 6 ships is causing the issue, but proximity of more than two (larger and loaded) ships that causes issues.

  • I don’t feel like the maximum quantity is the issue, but rather the lack of keeping the servers full. I think 5-6 ships would be fine if each sever actually had close to that number. How to do that without ruining the immersion? I don’t know, and I’m assuming Rare doesn’t either. Constant merges would end up being very frustrating.

  • They need to stop supporting the old outdated Xbox consoles so we can move on to better things that the old consoles can't handle which then puts strain on everything else.

  • @muirist said in Ship count and the dead seas dilemma:

    They need to stop supporting the old outdated Xbox consoles so we can move on to better things that the old consoles can't handle which then puts strain on everything else.

    xbox players are a big part and have always been a big part of the organic activity in this game, far more focused on adventure and the content than the sweaty parts of the game.

  • @wolfmanbush

    I don't disagree at all and I'm not saying to stop the support of Xbox but how many people are still playing on an original Xbox one? I wouldn't think many and there are updates that cannot be done because those are still supported

  • @muirist said in Ship count and the dead seas dilemma:

    They need to stop supporting the old outdated Xbox consoles so we can move on to better things that the old consoles can't handle which then puts strain on everything else.

    I definitely do agree that xbox one is holding it back a bit... i just wonder how many people use the xbox one in this game, because if its a lot then i can understand why rare is keeping them open, but if its minimal, then it could do with pulling support from the xbox one.

  • @muirist literally one the selling points for me to upgrade to a series x was the faster load times and increased rendering power because they were unbearable on this game running on my xbox one lol

  • I remember when i was on xbox one, dying ONCE in pvp meant id lost.. because that first desth would lead to a blackscreen that lasted sometimes 4-5 minutes... lol like i considered that unplayable after updates started making it even worse until i upgraded so i agree in wondering why its still even supported

  • Made me wanna pull my hair out staring at those black screens when i should be in a fight lol

  • @goldsmen said in Ship count and the dead seas dilemma:

    @muirist said in Ship count and the dead seas dilemma:

    They need to stop supporting the old outdated Xbox consoles so we can move on to better things that the old consoles can't handle which then puts strain on everything else.

    I definitely do agree that xbox one is holding it back a bit... i just wonder how many people use the xbox one in this game, because if its a lot then i can understand why rare is keeping them open, but if its minimal, then it could do with pulling support from the xbox one.

    That should be pointed at Microsoft.

  • @pithyrumble said in Ship count and the dead seas dilemma:

    @goldsmen said in Ship count and the dead seas dilemma:

    @muirist said in Ship count and the dead seas dilemma:

    They need to stop supporting the old outdated Xbox consoles so we can move on to better things that the old consoles can't handle which then puts strain on everything else.

    I definitely do agree that xbox one is holding it back a bit... i just wonder how many people use the xbox one in this game, because if its a lot then i can understand why rare is keeping them open, but if its minimal, then it could do with pulling support from the xbox one.

    That should be pointed at Microsoft.

    Is it actually microsoft that is making that decision? Thats kind of annoying if it is.

  • @goldsmen said in Ship count and the dead seas dilemma:

    Before the ship count was dropped from 6 to 5, the seas didnt feel crowded,

    Yes they did. They really did.
    It felt impossible to go anywhere or do anything without running into multiple ships in the process. (And they were always hostiles not using in game voice systems by the way. The alleged existence of friendlies is a lie, it's only discord using enemies.)

    As it is, right now, you probably aren't getting 5 ships on your server.
    5 is the max, but you probably only have 3. 2? Do merges happen with 2 or only once you're alone?
    Even then the merge can't happen until you meet the get-merged-requirements, which can take a long time in itself, depending on how you're playing. I mean honestly if you wanted you could intentionally avoid it.

    Raising the max back to 6 doesn't do anything about there only being enough people playing to have 3.
    But I can tell you from prior experience having 6 ships on the same server at the same time was excessive.

  • I would honestly trade every single addition to this game since Emissaries for the ability to have 12 ships on the server. A big boating lake is the only way SoT could generate fun, emergent gameplay for me at this point. Really tired of handcrafted content and want more organic, emergent happenings that can really only come from random player interactions.

  • @muirist said in Ship count and the dead seas dilemma:

    They need to stop supporting the old outdated Xbox consoles so we can move on to better things that the old consoles can't handle which then puts strain on everything else.

    The older XBox only puts strain on itself. The server isn't limited by older hardware.

  • @the-old-soul800 said in Ship count and the dead seas dilemma:

    @goldsmen said in Ship count and the dead seas dilemma:

    Before the ship count was dropped from 6 to 5, the seas didnt feel crowded,

    Yes they did. They really did.
    It felt impossible to go anywhere or do anything without running into multiple ships in the process. (And they were always hostiles not using in game voice systems by the way. The alleged existence of friendlies is a lie, it's only discord using enemies.)

    As it is, right now, you probably aren't getting 5 ships on your server.
    5 is the max, but you probably only have 3. 2? Do merges happen with 2 or only once you're alone?
    Even then the merge can't happen until you meet the get-merged-requirements, which can take a long time in itself, depending on how you're playing. I mean honestly if you wanted you could intentionally avoid it.

    Raising the max back to 6 doesn't do anything about there only being enough people playing to have 3.
    But I can tell you from prior experience having 6 ships on the same server at the same time was excessive.

    Don't agree - when I was solo slooping with 5 other ships on the server it sometimes could be a bit of a challenge to avoid others, as long as you stay away from world events obviously. Got sunk maybe once every 2 weeks or so.

    Currently, I see sometimes two maybe three other ships in an hours long solo-session. When we duo or do a 3-person-brig, we encounter other ships, but only if we set out to find them. If we want to do some PvE, we hardly get into a fight. Perhaps an average of once per session.

    You only seeing three ships probably means the server gets a visit of a server hopper that goes looking for another or a crew that is very good at staying out of sight. Perhaps fishing in a rowboat or doing something in Lava-land. Or a crew that gets sunk and alt-f4's - keeping a spot for at least 10 minutes occupied.

    They don't have a set number of servers and then disperse crews on that - servers should be filled up to the max number of crews. Unless it's in the very quiet hours you might find yourself in a quieter server.

  • @x-anorax-x I stopped playing on my Xbox One because of how horrendous the load times were. Like 10 minutes to start the game? Forget about black screens on death. I played when the game first launched for a bit until the load times were excruciating and didn't pick it up again until I got a Series X.

  • @x-anorax-x said in Ship count and the dead seas dilemma:

    I remember when i was on xbox one, dying ONCE in pvp meant id lost.. because that first desth would lead to a blackscreen that lasted sometimes 4-5 minutes... lol like i considered that unplayable after updates started making it even worse until i upgraded so i agree in wondering why its still even supported

    Installing the game on a faster external hard drive or an external SSD solves that issue completely...even on a Day One console like I have. It is the slow stock hard drive that causes that issue, not the rest of the hardware, and there is a solution for it as I just stated.

  • @muirist said in Ship count and the dead seas dilemma:

    They need to stop supporting the old outdated Xbox consoles so we can move on to better things that the old consoles can't handle which then puts strain on everything else.

    You've got it all wrong. Continuing to support the Xbox One does NOT put any strain on any of the other systems or servers - that is totally irrelevant. All systems have the same impact on server load and dropping the One would not make it possible to add back that 6th ship as many of you seem to think. It is the SERVERS that have the issue with that, not the client systems as many of you ignorantly lay blame.

    And FYI the PC has even lower minimum specs than the OG One...MUCH lower for that matter. Yet no one barks about that.

  • @the-old-soul800 said in Ship count and the dead seas dilemma:

    @goldsmen said in Ship count and the dead seas dilemma:

    Before the ship count was dropped from 6 to 5, the seas didnt feel crowded,

    Yes they did. They really did.
    It felt impossible to go anywhere or do anything without running into multiple ships in the process. (And they were always hostiles not using in game voice systems by the way. The alleged existence of friendlies is a lie, it's only discord using enemies.)

    As it is, right now, you probably aren't getting 5 ships on your server.
    5 is the max, but you probably only have 3. 2? Do merges happen with 2 or only once you're alone?
    Even then the merge can't happen until you meet the get-merged-requirements, which can take a long time in itself, depending on how you're playing. I mean honestly if you wanted you could intentionally avoid it.

    Raising the max back to 6 doesn't do anything about there only being enough people playing to have 3.
    But I can tell you from prior experience having 6 ships on the same server at the same time was excessive.

    What you call excessive based on your own experience felt like just enough to actually have interaction to me. I was there for it as well, and it felt like just enough people for my play style, and people arnt expected to be friendly, even rare stated when they released alliances to be careful who you trust.

  • @dlchief58 said in Ship count and the dead seas dilemma:

    @muirist said in Ship count and the dead seas dilemma:

    They need to stop supporting the old outdated Xbox consoles so we can move on to better things that the old consoles can't handle which then puts strain on everything else.

    You've got it all wrong. Continuing to support the Xbox One does NOT put any strain on any of the other systems or servers - that is totally irrelevant. All systems have the same impact on server load and dropping the One would not make it possible to add back that 6th ship as many of you seem to think. It is the SERVERS that have the issue with that, not the client systems as many of you ignorantly lay blame.

    And FYI the PC has even lower minimum specs than the OG One...MUCH lower for that matter. Yet no one barks about that.

    I dont think they are saying it puts strain on other systems, but that they are unable to put in stuff that the other systems could handle just because they have to make it be able to run on xbox one.

  • Absent any improvements to the netcode, the solution to me is clear, even if it seems obvious and has been done before in other games.

    Create new instanced areas using the portals that limit the number of ships to 2, maybe 3.

    The hunters cry was the best example of what this mode could offer in which multiple crews could be merged together into a new instanced area for a more tailored experience. Sure, some elements of the netcode could still suffer (like hitreg), but at least any new content / biomes would not dilute the regular adventure mode further. This also has the advantage of still allowing xbox one support by letting Rare instance any new content, which should, hopefully allow for higher quality content without the performance hit of putting it all in the main server.

    As a roadmap for how I imagine these "dungeons" should be implemented:

    1 - Allow some "dungeons" to be have the choice to be solo only (for a lesser reward), or invadable for a greater reward. Overall though, the goal should be to create more challenging PvE encounters, limit supplies, and randomize some objectives for that "next level" reward (i.e. only bananas allowed or complete the event with only 10 planks). Rewards wouldn't be loot your bring back with you, but it could be a combination of rewards you receive at the end that scales with the amount of loot you gather during the voyage. Gold would be the default consolation prize for a satisfactory completion, but the real treasure would be cosmetics, trophies, etc. for meeting the objectives.

    2 - Requires some combination of items to initiate at a ritual sites at some nearby island (example: athena chest + ashen winds = Ashen Athena Dungeon, or castaway chest + chest of rage = PvP dungeon). Make some combinations consistent (result in a specific dungeon with specific known victory conditions), but make other combinations random for each server (maybe you discover a secret dungeon by combining a ritual skull + a banana crate but only sometimes). Possibly, have some items that persist between sessions which are tied to your character that you gather over time, and can choose to use later. Some of these items your receive by doing lower level dungeons which you then parlay to do higher level dungeons. Rare can monetize by giving players a means to shortcut this by paying some ancient coins to bypass the need for these items.

    Find clues in barrels that can tell you some specific combinations that are needed for that server, and gain some maps to specific items needed (castaway chests, etc) using the existing message in bottle system. This rewards crews for staying in the same server (more clues & opportunity to gather necessary ritual items), and for teaming up with other crews to uncover which dungeons this server is featuring. Maybe you need to use certain ship cosmetics as well, for example, and can spot other crews looking to initiate the same dungeon based on their ship appearance (have merchant sails or athena sails, etc). If server differences are too difficult, the requirements could change each day / week at a set time.

    3 - Make some events mandatory to have more than one crew, with a mix of only cooperative (PvP and interact on other ships disabled), or competitive (crews engage in a tug of war with some PvE sprinkled in). Some specifics will need to be worked out on how exactly to queue ships together, but I think crews should be given two options. Either wait for a crew in the same server to also offer the same items or "start matchmaking." This gives crews the flexibility to ask around and see if other crews in the server want to take on a dungeon together. Competitive dungeons though I think should come with some caveats. Maybe still allow crews in the same server to queue up but only allow each ship to do this once per session (tied to boat not to players) so that it is not abused with alliance servers trading victories. If you want to do multiple competitive dungeons per server, you will need to matchmake.

    Note that once a ship is merged into an instanced dungeon, this ship is now off server so it won't be returning to the same server. This likely means you won't be able to take on multiple of the secret dungeons since the combination will be different once you are merged back into the main sea of thieves.

    I think overall, this experience is what is missing from Sea of Thieves. PvE only is oft requested and this is one way to fulfill that need without diluting what makes the sea of thieves great. In addition, finding a way to create a cyclic economy between what we farm in adventure mode (gold and doubloons) and what we might earn in the dungeons (trophies, titles, cosmetics, maybe even coupons to the emporium / ancient coins) is a sound strategy to give players a reason to play. Of course, Rare would need to find a way to monetize this, but I think offering something like this is a very good way to retain players, get new players hooked, and just keep the game alive. That should be reason enough as there are a lot of cosmetics they can monetize already, and the real prize for them is getting more players into the game.

  • @goldsmen said in Ship count and the dead seas dilemma:

    @dlchief58 said in Ship count and the dead seas dilemma:

    @muirist said in Ship count and the dead seas dilemma:

    They need to stop supporting the old outdated Xbox consoles so we can move on to better things that the old consoles can't handle which then puts strain on everything else.

    You've got it all wrong. Continuing to support the Xbox One does NOT put any strain on any of the other systems or servers - that is totally irrelevant. All systems have the same impact on server load and dropping the One would not make it possible to add back that 6th ship as many of you seem to think. It is the SERVERS that have the issue with that, not the client systems as many of you ignorantly lay blame.

    And FYI the PC has even lower minimum specs than the OG One...MUCH lower for that matter. Yet no one barks about that.

    I dont think they are saying it puts strain on other systems, but that they are unable to put in stuff that the other systems could handle just because they have to make it be able to run on xbox one.

    Yet there were calls to drop support as if it would somehow enable the 6th ship to be added (you know, the topic you created), which anyone with some knowledge in the subject knows is an absurd conclusion.

  • @dlchief58 said in Ship count and the dead seas dilemma:

    @goldsmen said in Ship count and the dead seas dilemma:

    @dlchief58 said in Ship count and the dead seas dilemma:

    @muirist said in Ship count and the dead seas dilemma:

    They need to stop supporting the old outdated Xbox consoles so we can move on to better things that the old consoles can't handle which then puts strain on everything else.

    You've got it all wrong. Continuing to support the Xbox One does NOT put any strain on any of the other systems or servers - that is totally irrelevant. All systems have the same impact on server load and dropping the One would not make it possible to add back that 6th ship as many of you seem to think. It is the SERVERS that have the issue with that, not the client systems as many of you ignorantly lay blame.

    And FYI the PC has even lower minimum specs than the OG One...MUCH lower for that matter. Yet no one barks about that.

    I dont think they are saying it puts strain on other systems, but that they are unable to put in stuff that the other systems could handle just because they have to make it be able to run on xbox one.

    Yet there were calls to drop support as if it would somehow enable the 6th ship to be added (you know, the topic you created), which anyone with some knowledge in the subject knows is an absurd conclusion.

    I know that wouldnt grant the 6th ship, but it was a side thing, i just thought it was worth clarifying since it was brought up. The 6th ship is a different issue for sure, but restricting what can be done due to keeping the game compatible with outdated console is another issue with the game for sure.

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