it's really frustrating how someone can remove an important part of every fight (getting aboard and dropping the anchor) by just having more loot or crates than the other crew. it draws out fights way longer than they need to be and it's just straight up unfair, because even if you use an anchorball a decent crew will just raise it again because the stuff on the capstan doesn't block the pegs
stacking loot and crates on the capstan has to go
@nokye said in stacking loot and crates on the capstan has to go:
it's really frustrating how someone can remove an important part of every fight (getting aboard and dropping the anchor) by just having more loot or crates than the other crew. it draws out fights way longer than they need to be and it's just straight up unfair, because even if you use an anchorball a decent crew will just raise it again because the stuff on the capstan doesn't block the pegs
But that same crew will have a harder time grabbing the pegs to stop the anchor before it fully drops compared to if they hadn't stacked the capstan.
You can only stack the capstan if you've spent some time in the server collecting treasure from voyages, events, or other ships. Crews that have been active for a while in a server have multiple advantages against fresh crews (more general supplies, cursed cannonballs, tridents, rowboat, storage crates, etc.); this is just another manifestation of that advantage.
If you're a server hopper with no loot to stack on your capstan as well, then I have no sympathy.
Also, the whole board and anchor meta is such an eye roll. When I'm solo I feel like I spend more time blunderbussing boarders than repairing holes. It's hilarious.
I'm all for making naval battles longer and more strategic...more of a chess match. The chainshot, board, anchor, spawn kill strategy is kinda tired. Effective, but tired.
While I will admit I dislike the boarding meta and would love naval to be more of a focus in Ship battles. I would find it more interesting if boarding had to work more like in reality with bringing the Ships close, or disabling the Ship first so you can then attempt to send a boarding crew more safely. It would just be more interesting to me personally.
That said, I also get that in this game they have to consider ways to get people back to their Ships since it is a game and falling off Ship shouldn't leave you detached from your Ship for long stretches even if it would in reality. Since both those things have to be accounted for, it is a tricky balance. And human nature dictates that since there is going to be some degree of risk mitigation to falling off ones Ship, people are going to be willing to make the attempt in ways they otherwise wouldn't and use boarding as a way of disabling the Ship.
In conclusion, I'd personally be open to reassessing the distance from your Ship before a Mermaid spawns and pushing it back out a bit to add a little more weight to making boarding attempts in battles. But I don't think it is gonna happen since that radius has actually been reduced since launch because people previously felt it took too long to get to that range. Thus I know I am in a minority here.
@nokye can still be dropped. Shove your face into it and you will see the prompt.
The only thing this prevents is a boarder rushing the anchor from the ladder and just tapping it as they sprint by it.
@personalc0ffee said in stacking loot and crates on the capstan has to go:
Haha no it doesn't.
Yes, it does.
I love anchor deterrents.
I hate them.
Quit trying to blind drop my anchor.
Pay attention, you blind sod!
Frankly, that's what they need to fix. Being able to grab things out of view.
💯
it's really frustrating how someone can remove an important part of every fight (getting aboard and dropping the anchor)
Or just stop doing that silly tactic and try something new? Maybe ship to ship combat and sink them? Idk. It’s not important enough to care.
But seeing people complain means to me, they are a single thought person and just repeat the same thing because it’s “easy”.
What happen to dropping a keg into the water as they chase or firing yourself from a cannon and land on a ship? Or better. Fire chainshot? That stop them. XD@burnbacon The interesting aspect of this situation is that, regardless of where you stand, it limits gameplay options.
If you're in favor of stacking loot onto the capstan, you prevent other crews from boarding, which is a legitimate offensive strategy.
If you're against stacking loot onto the capstan, then you're limiting other crews from doing exactly that and more effectively defending their ship.
There's quite a bit of give and take involved.
So, I think it really boils down to several factors:
(1) How often is the strategy used?
(2) How effective is the strategy?
(3) How much does it's use limit gameplay options?
(4) How does it affect the offense/defense dynamic?
(5) How does it affect the ship versus crew dynamic?
(6) How does it negatively affect each crew?
(7) How do various munitions affect the outcome of the fight with this strategy in use?I personally am chiefly against the strategy, simply because there's no way of knowing their capstan is stacked until AFTER you board - in essence it has no real counter, and by the time you find out they have done it, it gives them a huge advantage to continuously press the attack ship to ship, while your own ship is already undermanned because of your absence. Also, the defensive ship now has even more defensive options versus boarding - run away, evasive manuevering, spot a mermaid, guard a ladder, stack loot on capstan. That's woefully unbalanced because it overtly favors defense over offense. What does offense get? Not much of anything really.
In fact, this is another way that SoT separates itself from other video games. Most video games will give a slight edge to offense, because that's how you chiefly win, and because defense can always hold out and almost always has the option to run. I see this a lot with fighting games, in particular.
@nokye ...and here we have our famous collection of ship-stopping cannonballs. How about a chainshot? Riggingballs? An anchorball is always good, turns that pesky treasure into a double-edged sword. We also have just default cannonballs... use enough, and there won't even be a ship to stop.
@galactic-geek said in stacking loot and crates on the capstan has to go:
...I personally am chiefly against the strategy, simply because there's no way of knowing their capstan is stacked until AFTER you board - in essence it has no real counter...
Do you know which skeleton ship in the fleet has the captain before boarding it?
Do you know which megalodon you've got before it jumps?
Do you know which ashen lord you're going to get before getting closer?
Do you know if a skeleton tower has any kegs before seeing for yourself?
Do you know if the treasure beneath the "x" in the devil's roar is a keg until you dig it up?
Do you know if the shipwreck has any barnacled chests until you dive into it?Do you know if the players you are fighting have loot on the capstan?
Unlike the previously listed things, the last one can be scouted- like kegs on the crow's nest.
Adapt to what is in the game, don't change it.
Besides, you can always pick up the loot and move it. Yes, its slower, but it nerfs the overpowered and far too easy strategy of lowering someone's anchor.@mr-whaletoes said in stacking loot and crates on the capstan has to go:
@galactic-geek said in stacking loot and crates on the capstan has to go:
...I personally am chiefly against the strategy, simply because there's no way of knowing their capstan is stacked until AFTER you board - in essence it has no real counter...
Do you know which skeleton ship in the fleet has the captain before boarding it?
It's always 1 of the last 2 in the fleet, which spawn together.
Do you know which megalodon you've got before it jumps?
Megs don't jump (or at least they're not supposed to). They breach at the very beginning of the encounter, and that's when I know.
Do you know which ashen lord you're going to get before getting closer?
Again, at the very beginning of the fight when they rise out of the summoning pile.
Do you know if a skeleton tower has any kegs before seeing for yourself?
A single cannonball shot or throwable figures that out real quick.
Do you know if the treasure beneath the "x" in the devil's roar is a keg until you dig it up?
Not an offensive scenario, so example is null and void.
Do you know if the shipwreck has any barnacled chests until you dive into it?
They always do. It's where barnacled chests come from.
Do you know if the players you are fighting have loot on the capstan?
Not until AFTER boarding, which is already midway through the encounter.
Unlike the previously listed things, the last one can be scouted- like kegs on the crow's nest.
With an EoR, maybe, but draw distance with loot glint is surprisingly limited across the vast distances of the waves. Furthermore, the position of the capstan on the ship and the angle of the ship further obscures being able to spot it, unlike a keg in the crow's nest which is completely exposed from all sides.
Adapt to what is in the game, don't change it.
Rare should ensure that every strategy has an opposing counter that the opposing crew can readily take advantage of. Right now, until it's discovered, the opposing crew doesn't have 1 that they can really use. Sure, they can try and sink the ship or use anchorballs, but there's a clear difference when doing that to simply stop and sink the other ship versus actively preparing for and stopping this strategy. And again, you're limiting the offensive ships options by shoehorning them into a particular playstyle they may not enjoy.
Besides, you can always pick up the loot and move it. Yes, its slower, but it nerfs the overpowered and far too easy strategy of lowering someone's anchor.
This is where we disagree. Boarding is not an easy or overpowered strategy. A good crew can, as I have already said, can:
- run (easy to do)
- perform evasive manuevers (varies in difficulty)
- guard ladders (easy to do)
- spot mermaids (easy to do)
- engage opposing swimmers (easy to do)
- stack loot on the capstan (varies in difficulty)
What options does a boarder have?
- ram and jump on (requires getting close and is woefully obvious)
- swim over and climb ladder (slow, requires good timing, and/or opposing crew perception)
- cannon on board (requires good aim and quite a bit of luck)
That's 2/1 ratio in favor of defense over offense, a.k.a., not balanced at all.
@galactic-geek said in stacking loot and crates on the capstan has to go:
Do you know which skeleton ship in the fleet has the captain before boarding it?
It's always 1 of the last 2 in the fleet, which spawn together.
Actually, I didn't know that. Thanks for the tip!
(Edit: I misread that part. I thought you meant that the second ship spawning in the final phase had the captain. I did already know the captain was in the last phase...)Do you know which megalodon you've got before it jumps?
Megs don't jump (or at least they're not supposed to). They breach at the very beginning of the encounter, and that's when I know.
That's what I had meant, I just didn't know the word :P My bad.
Do you know which ashen lord you're going to get before getting closer?
Again, at the very beginning of the fight when they rise out of the summoning pile.
Does one not find out if the players have loot on the capstan until they begin a fight from boarding? Climbing onto the boarded ship is like approaching the summoning pile.
Do you know if a skeleton tower has any kegs before seeing for yourself?
A single cannonball shot or throwable figures that out real quick.
But what if you want to use the kegs yourself?
Do you know if the treasure beneath the "x" in the devil's roar is a keg until you dig it up?
Not an offensive scenario, so example is null and void.
Fair enough.
Do you know if the shipwreck has any barnacled chests until you dive into it?
They always do. It's where barnacled chests come from.
Okay, this one wasn't very good on my part. In theory, it could have been looted already... but, very situational, so you win on this one.
Do you know if the players you are fighting have loot on the capstan?
Not until AFTER boarding, which is already midway through the encounter.
Is it? I try to board as soon as the enemy ship takes damage that'll admit water so I can prevent repairs. Maybe it's a bad strategy. Maybe not. Seems to work pretty well against skeleton galleons, though.
Unlike the previously listed things, the last one can be scouted- like kegs on the crow's nest.
With an EoR, maybe, but draw distance with loot glint is surprisingly limited across the vast distances of the waves. Furthermore, the position of the capstan on the ship and the angle of the ship further obscures being able to spot it, unlike a keg in the crow's nest which is completely exposed from all sides.
I was thinking spyglass, not EoR. Also, if there isn't loot on all sides of the capstan, it won't do a very good job at preventing it from being lowered. Plus, the angle of the ship is very situational. Sure, someone won't be able to see if the ship has loot on it's capstan if they are behind it, but then again they'll probably have trouble boarding it anyways.
Adapt to what is in the game, don't change it.
Rare should ensure that every strategy has an opposing counter that the opposing crew can readily take advantage of. Right now, until it's discovered, the opposing crew doesn't have 1 that they can really use.
And it takes one time to figure out how the strategy works. Just like when someone successfully uses a chainshot on you, you now know what chainshots do. Or when you get surprised by a tucker, you now know you can hide on someone's ship.
Sure, they can try and sink the ship or use anchorballs, but there's a clear difference when doing that to simply stop and sink the other ship versus actively preparing for and stopping this strategy. And again, you're limiting the offensive ships options by shoehorning them into a particular playstyle they may not enjoy.
Limiting offensive ships and forcing them to play in a way they don't enjoy... I don't have a problem with that, I'd rather stay moving and afloat than worry if my aggressors are having fun.
Also, I don't find it fun to have my anchor lowered...Besides, you can always pick up the loot and move it. Yes, its slower, but it nerfs the overpowered and far too easy strategy of lowering someone's anchor.
This is where we disagree. Boarding is not an easy or overpowered strategy. A good crew can, as I have already said, can:
- run (easy to do)
- perform evasive manuevers (varies in difficulty)
- guard ladders (easy to do)
- spot mermaids (easy to do)
- engage opposing swimmers (easy to do)
- stack loot on the capstan (varies in difficulty)
What options does a boarder have?
- ram and jump on (requires getting close and is woefully obvious)
- swim over and climb ladder (slow, requires good timing, and/or opposing crew perception)
- cannon on board (requires good aim and quite a bit of luck)
That's 2/1 ratio in favor of defense over offense, a.k.a., not balanced at all.
I never said boarding was an overpowered strategy, I said lowering the anchor was. Bringing a ship to a stop while forcing the crewmates to move to a predictable location to get it moving again, while also having those crewmates be clustered together if they want to do it with any sense of speed (Unless they're a sloop)... It might be worse for the crew than losing the masts to chainshots in some scenarios.
Plus, loot on the capstan means that when the crew needs to raise or lower it themselves they'll have some problems.@mr-whaletoes said:
Does one not find out if the players have loot on the capstan until they begin a fight from boarding? Climbing onto the boarded ship is like approaching the summoning pile.
The fight doesn't begin at boarding, but usually when each each ship begins to engage the other from a distance with cannonfire.
It basically is:
(1) mutual awareness
(2) 1st shots fired
(3) Reciprocation
(4) Disable ship/Boarding Attempt
(5) Victory/LossBut what if you want to use the kegs yourself?
You could fire yourself from a cannon up and above or near the tower and use your spyglass to look inside before ever getting to the ladder.
Is it? I try to board as soon as the enemy ship takes damage that'll admit water so I can prevent repairs. Maybe it's a bad strategy. Maybe not. Seems to work pretty well against skeleton galleons, though.
It's definitely situational, based upon each crew's skill. That said, it's usually just easier to continuously fire with the cannons where they're going to repair, killing them in the process, making the hole bigger and leaving it still unrepaired. If they're not repairing, you can spread out your shots to admit more holes , making it harder to repair if they choose to do so.
Generally speaking, I aim for the crew 1st, regardless of where they are. A ship without a crew is worthless - if you shoot their cannons, they can't shoot back; shoot their wheel, they can't steer; shoot their capstan, they can't raise their anchor; shoot their ropes, they can't raise the mast; shoot at the holes, they can't repair.
I was thinking spyglass, not EoR.
The spyglass can see further than the EoR, it's true, but not by much - it's not going to improve the draw distance issue enough to really make that much of a difference. Just to give you an idea of how bad it can be, I'll just say that I have sunk circling skelly ships and not been able to see their loot in the waves from up on the crow's nest on numerous occasions.
Limiting offensive ships and forcing them to play in a way they don't enjoy... I don't have a problem with that, I'd rather stay moving and afloat than worry if my aggressors are having fun.
Also, I don't find it fun to have my anchor lowered...This right here is the real problem. It's the Us vs. Them mentality. Just because it's a competitive game doesn't mean that you should only care about your own fun and not that of others. Games are supposed to bring everyone together to have fun. Sure you may not always win, but even in losing, you can still have fun.
I never said boarding was an overpowered strategy, I said lowering the anchor was. Bringing a ship to a stop while forcing the crewmates to move to a predictable location to get it moving again, while also having those crewmates be clustered together if they want to do it with any sense of speed (Unless they're a sloop)... It might be worse for the crew than losing the masts to chainshots in some scenarios.
Plus, loot on the capstan means that when the crew needs to raise or lower it themselves they'll have some problems.You just admitted to anchorballs being OP. 😆
I'd be fine with them disabling loot stacking on the capstan.........as long as they eliminate silent boarding right along with it.
@sweetsandman said in stacking loot and crates on the capstan has to go:
@galactic-geek ...as long as they eliminate silent boarding right along with it.
Technically, they (mostly) already did that.
All this is solved with a cursed anchor cannonball. Either by invading the enemy ship, the first step is to knock the crew down in the water, or if you're good enough, kill everyone first, and then you'll have enough time to lower their anchor.
Adapt your strategy against your opponent's strategy
The most interesting thing is to see people complaining about this feature, saying that there must be a way to override this, that Rare should fix this, fix it. But when someone comes up talking about spawncamp, these same people say it's a legitimate strategy and that Rare doesn't have to do anything about it and that people have to learn how to deal with it
I suffer a spawncamp, I dig my ship and continue my game. But let's be more consistent when we talk about the mechanics of the game@galactic-geek said in stacking loot and crates on the capstan has to go:
Technically, they (mostly) already did that.
Then, technically, they didn't. That's like saying they fixed bucket reg.
Seriously, silent boarding is still very much in the game.
@sweetsandman to be fair, though, server hopping through the portal doesn't get rid of storage crates.
@limbicfanatic the chests only cover the "Drop Anchor" hitbox in the middle of the capstan. The "Raise Anchor" hitbox is on the bars, not the middle.
I don't really see what the problem is, its a double edged sword. Sometimes works against boarders but most experienced crews will just work around it. I used to stack empty storage crates on the capstan but stopped when I kept picking up crates instead of my own anchor haha. Boarded a few ships using this strat, just killed the crew first and then anchored them. I'm all for anything that puts the focus towards naval abit more anyway.
It's no different from using other mechanics in the game to gain some form of unintended advantage such as the sword lunge jump, grabbing something to stop the lunge stun etc.
@galactic-geek
" there's no way of knowing their capstan is stacked until AFTER you board"Loot renders from quite a considerable distance. It can be a little tricky to see the kapstan on the gally but I really like that surveying the enemy ship with the EOR/Spyglass is a genuine tactic.
@sweetsandman That's literally the meta. Sorry that the most effective way of stopping a ship is boring to you.
I just lost a 1v4 against a pretty worthless galleon crew, all because they threw 3 guys at me after being frustrated about getting out maneuvered and out naval'd. Killed the first who tapped the anchor, nearly got it up before the next ones got aboard but alas. Also, that was there about 12th board attempt alongside about 3 keg plays that didn't go their way.
Honestly removing the ability to interact with dropping anchor of another crew might actually bring naval relevance back. As it is now, most of my fighting interactions for months have been 10% naval, 90% CoD.
@kommodoreyenser said in stacking loot and crates on the capstan has to go:
I just lost a 1v4 against a pretty worthless galleon crew, all because they threw 3 guys at me after being frustrated about getting out maneuvered and out naval'd. Killed the first who tapped the anchor, nearly got it up before the next ones got aboard but alas. Honestly removing the ability to interact with dropping anchor of another crew might actually bring naval relevance back. As it is now, most of my fighting interactions for months have been 10% naval, 90% CoD.
that's just interfering for a preference though.
I don't like combat in this game much at all but others do
just gotta take the bad and the good together.
Crews are all over the place with skill anyway. A lot of people try to board because they see it in clips of others doing it but they don't really accomplish much with it which opens up an opportunity to continue the naval battle successfully
@galactic-geek said in stacking loot and crates on the capstan has to go:
The fight doesn't begin at boarding, but usually when each each ship begins to engage the other from a distance with cannonfire.
It basically is:
(1) mutual awareness
(2) 1st shots fired
(3) Reciprocation
(4) Disable ship/Boarding Attempt
(5) Victory/LossBut there are always abnormal battle beginnings- betrayal, tucking, trickery, that one guy who doesn't care about gold anymore and happens to have an ashen winds skull (Definitely not me)...
But what if you want to use the kegs yourself?
You could fire yourself from a cannon up and above or near the tower and use your spyglass to look inside before ever getting to the ladder.
My point I'm trying to make here is that loot on the anchor can be scouted like kegs.
It's definitely situational, based upon each crew's skill. That said, it's usually just easier to continuously fire with the cannons where they're going to repair, killing them in the process, making the hole bigger and leaving it still unrepaired. If they're not repairing, you can spread out your shots to admit more holes , making it harder to repair if they choose to do so.
Generally speaking, I aim for the crew 1st, regardless of where they are. A ship without a crew is worthless - if you shoot their cannons, they can't shoot back; shoot their wheel, they can't steer; shoot their capstan, they can't raise their anchor; shoot their ropes, they can't raise the mast; shoot at the holes, they can't repair.
I don't like to make others helpless- it makes me feel like I'm the bad guy. I was always the "Set everything on fire and blow it to smithereens" kind of pirate. Lets move out of this part of the discussion, it's become opinion based and that never gets anywhere.
The spyglass can see further than the EoR, it's true, but not by much - it's not going to improve the draw distance issue enough to really make that much of a difference. Just to give you an idea of how bad it can be, I'll just say that I have sunk circling skelly ships and not been able to see their loot in the waves from up on the crow's nest on numerous occasions.
The waves often obstruct the view even from the crows nest, I always find it best to wait for birds or until a change in the waves.
This right here is the real problem. It's the Us vs. Them mentality. Just because it's a competitive game doesn't mean that you should only care about your own fun and not that of others. Games are supposed to bring everyone together to have fun. Sure you may not always win, but even in losing, you can still have fun.
Truer words were rarely spoken. This might be right, perhaps my mentality is problematic. I try to have fun at all times- after all, it is just a game- but, really, other crews decide if/how they have fun themselves. I focus on my enjoyment because that is what I can most influence.
Side note: Be careful when using that argument. I have seen many a debate go south due to statements misinterpreted or poorly formatted (Tip- Abundance of the word "you" sounds accusatory).
You just admitted to anchorballs being OP. 😆
Does it lower the anchor? Yes. Did I say lowering the anchor is OP? Yes. Does that mean anchorballs are OP? Yes. I agree with that, did I say/seem to say that elsewhere that I didn't notice?
But I personally like them much better than boarding to lower the anchor, its more fun and unexpected than boarding despite being less ensured. Still, that's personal opinion.@wolfmanbush said in stacking loot and crates on the capstan has to go:
@kommodoreyenser said in stacking loot and crates on the capstan has to go:
I just lost a 1v4 against a pretty worthless galleon crew, all because they threw 3 guys at me after being frustrated about getting out maneuvered and out naval'd. Killed the first who tapped the anchor, nearly got it up before the next ones got aboard but alas. Honestly removing the ability to interact with dropping anchor of another crew might actually bring naval relevance back. As it is now, most of my fighting interactions for months have been 10% naval, 90% CoD.
that's just interfering for a preference though.
I don't like combat in this game much at all but others do
just gotta take the bad and the good together.
Crews are all over the place with skill anyway. A lot of people try to board because they see it in clips of others doing it but they don't really accomplish much with it which opens up an opportunity to continue the naval battle successfully
I mean if guns, ship interactables, etc went faster or slower depending on the odds maybe. A 1v3 boarding situation when the first guy literally just taps the anchor and runs so you have to go kill him OR try and catch it and die in the process. Not much to be done there. 10 outta 10 as a solo, you gotta kill people on your ship first then worry about anything else second.
Let’s say enemy can’t drop your anchor. What is the potential negative? Ships running forever? That already happens because in order to stop the running you need to either have wind advantage, a cannon angle for chains or boarding (in order to get this, you needed the next thing more than likely), or you snuck up on them.
1 de 30
