This game could've been one of the best co-op games of all time, but...

  • Notorious6726
    Sailor

    Let me tell my story about this game. I got this game with three friends 2 days ago and we loved every second at the start. We had so much fun directly at the start not knowing tf we are doing. One day later we figured out the basic mechanics and got better, faster. We completed some missions and sunk other ships. Today we already decided to not come online again because it literally got boring. We are hoarding gold but for what? we bought customized sails and an arm hook now what? We sunk ships no reward no notice. The worst of all no progress in our characters or ship. Please if this game had some kind of character/ship progression that would give advantage it would be one of the most addicting and fun game. Even if everyone gets overpowered and I die at the beginning 200 times if I get some kind of progress I am gonna be the proudest kid on the block but like this it gets boring very fast. Keeping the game balanced is what kills it. This isn't fortnite where a huge skill gap can exist even if you have upgrades for weapons or ships it still crumbles down to the basic mechanics in how you handle and move the ship or work as a team. I'd just love to have some progress or actual goal to work towards and that would be so easily achieved with some skillpoint system or anything. It would make the game so much fun and addictive I'd even pay money for cosmetics and emotes if the game would be so addictive and entertaining but it gets repetitive fast.

    Just something to get out of my chest since It really makes me furious on how much potential was wasted here.

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  • D3ADST1CK
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    Progression that gives you an advantage is just an artificial way of making it feel like you're getting better when you are actually just getting boosts for no reason other than you've spent time in the game. This isn't that type of game, and they are not going to add advantages or level powerups, so if that's what you're looking for you're probably better suited to an MMO or RPG of some kind that provides that type of leveling.

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    @Notorious6726 I personally love the horizontal progression - it distills the game down to pure skill and knowledge to give you an edge (barring any network issues and/or bugs, of course). It also allows you to use any look, ship, or weapon of your choice.

    If you want to keep the game interesting, look to the commendations - there's a bunch of them! There are also event and daily challenges that will help keep you busy.

  • BurnBacon
    Vanguard
    Insider

    You do have an internal progression system. YOU
    What you learn is the progression, and it grows with every passing session.

  • Captain Coel
    Commander
    Insider

    @notorious6726 and here i thought we played games for fun. I guess I wasted nearly a 1000 hours this year not "progressing". Go have fun and don't look for a progress bar.

  • RTL Saint
    Sailor

    @captain-coel I think I faced you in the arena. did you play 6-8 hours ago, wear glorious sea dog outfit?

  • SwimPlatypus7
    Marauder

    @notorious6726 you said in your post you just started playing, maybe you have no idea what this game is or is about yet?

    Item power rewards and power perks are videogame cancer. They are fine in single player games as a mechanism to tempo the story, and they are a part of many MMORPG, like EverQuest and World of Warcraft, but those are different game types that have a difficult focus.

    Perhaps if you want to enjoy Sea of Thieves you ought to find other better teams and player ships to fight and see how you fair when also trying to do a quest while also in pvp.

    Maybe you like it, maybe you dont, but if Rare changes the game every time someone said "do this other thing like other games do" and they listened, then it wouldn't be Sea of Thieves any more, instead it would be Sea of Bad Ideas.

  • JaegerDelta3465
    Marauder

    This is one of the best co-op games of all time, there is no ability/skill progression because its pvpve. That's the way these type of games have to work otherwise you have to push it more into an mmo style with safe leveling zones, etc. If that's the type of game you like then there are tons out there, even fps ones.

    This game functions more as a sandbox the missions in the game are there to kickstart your adventure not define them. What happens in during your game session is entirely reliant on your own actions. I agree that it doesnt take long to be comfortable with the game, but if you are finding yourself not running into challenging situations you are not challenging yourself.

    I know that sounds like I'm just being a defensive fanboy, but trust me I'm not. It's just the nature of how an open world games work, they are open. Not just in the sense that you can travel anywhere in the game world, in the sense that you can act in anyway in the game world. And, not just in between quests, all the time. Sea of Thieves is closer to minecraft than say skyrim in philosophy. For example, you can build a fully safe house in minecraft with infinite food in about 2 minutes, you will never die but are you playing the game? Did you win? Where as in skyrim, you can never go to the first dungeon but there will be parts of the game you cannot play if you dont go where the game points you at some point. If that kind of player driven content isnt your style, then fair enough. But I would reccomend playing with that change in perspective in mind. It can be very rewarding.

  • Captain Coel
    Commander
    Insider

    @rtl-saint no, that wasn't me. I was at work my friend.

  • Shadow20642
    Marauder
    Insider

    @d3adst1ck said in This game could've been one of the best co-op games of all time, but...:

    Progression that gives you an advantage is just an artificial way of making it feel like you're getting better when you are actually just getting boosts for no reason other than you've spent time in the game. This isn't that type of game, and they are not going to add advantages or level powerups, so if that's what you're looking for you're probably better suited to an MMO or RPG of some kind that provides that type of leveling.

    Couldn't of said it better myself.

  • BARMALEY7580
    Captain
    Insider

    this game attracts by the fact that you are not worse than others

  • CotU42
    Lord
    Insider

    @notorious6726

    This is what we call end game. In many games you need to progress through the vertical system, yet at some point that also comes to an end. Everyone evens out at some point, in the seas we are just instantly at that stage. Therefore you as a new player you stand a chance when facing others. Sea of Thieves doesn't have a world split up in region for different levels.

    If you play a game long enough you reach this point, whether you keep playing or not is based upon the fact whether you are still having fun.

  • TheSevenTeas
    Marauder

    Having previously spent quite a bit of time playing World of Warships, a game that is fast going down the tube because of power creep, a dev team that does not appear to have a strong conception of what they want the game to be, frequent reworks of basic mechanics and hamster-wheel grinds that could just become much longer at a couple of months' notice...

    ... it is wild to me how many people seem to complain about Sea of Thieves not including those things

  • Notorious6726
    Sailor

    You guys unfortunately miss the point. Adding some kind of goal/progress system with thought can still be a balanced addition to the game. I already read the phrase „progress is an artificial way of making you better“. No its not its a motivation on trying to get better in the mechanics so that if you got better you can reward yourself in some way. You think if I grind to achieve some kind of progress I wont naturally progress in sailing/moving ship etc? If you have a decently good crew and get used to the controls what else is there for me to achieve? What am I doing with all my gold why do I have it? Why do I even bother to play the game for its missions if I won't be able to do anything with the rewards. It doesnt even have to be some boosts or perks maybe like a rank system the more you achieve the bigger prestige you have that others can see (Adventure) and try to hunt you down. I've already met many ships that wear the red flag on their ship with no loot only to fight others because they probably dont see the sense in doing other things than PvP. I get some of yours point in the uniqueness of the game and the endgame point but I'd rather work towards an endgame than no game. What is my motivation to keep playing the game if there is nothing to achieve or have a sense of accomplishment isn't that the point of games?

  • Mathusa4809
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @notorious6726 Because it’s fun? You might need a game with vertical progression to enjoy it, and that’s fair but if so SoT isn’t for you. Plus, pirate legend is there to work towards, although it offers no gameplay benefits.

  • Limend
    Lord
    Insider

    @notorious6726 Not sure about that. There are already some PvP players who can solo spawn camp new player's galleon full crew until they rage quit. By adding "upgradeable" let's say guns, It Won't change anything it will make it even easier for him. And it won't leave that feel "I lost because he was better. I want to be just like him" But instead "He only won because these stupid buffs that he gained because he has no live" I see you haven't encountered those yet by you're sail distance but just wait for it. If you want to know how large the skill gap is already in the game just go look for arena game where people are TDM'ing for example.

    Also when you say "

    I've already met many ships that wear the red flag on their ship with no loot only to fight others because they probably dont see the sense in doing other things than PvP. I get some of yours point in the uniqueness of the game and the endgame point but I'd rather work towards an endgame than no game.

    Grinding for better equipment won't change anything. Well it will for the first day or two but what happens after they have all gained them? they have nothing to do but PvP again but this time its even easier for them and harder for that other crew who haven't gained those perks yet

    As an example in games where you can power up you're self to get "better" Let's use Clash Royale as an example. I might feel good after leveling up my wizard to level 7 But when i still keep losing it get's irritating.

    The point of this game is that everyone starts with equal ground, and only think that makes you better than them is skill and knowledge not some "buffs" This isn't grinding simulator, or MMO RPG this is sand box game where player interact with other players who are doing their own thinks. Games point is that you create you're own adventure and you're own fun not that you farm cobblestone for 24 hours and get +1dm to you're sword.
    Gold used to be looked after because it was hard to get. Best way may had been Forts that gave around 15k and if you saw captains chest just lying on isle you went to pick it up. Now gold is so easy to get (Flame heart, emessery,emessery voyages) that it doesn't even matter. If you would be able to do anything like buff you're ships with it it would again be easier for them, there are players with 20-100mil of gold and others with under a mil. an usually those ones who have more have more experience on the seas and that way skill
    You do missions for fun, or for "rare on the seas" cosmetics that you can show you're dedication to the game.

    This game doesn't have endgame because its sand box and let's you do what ever you want. You don't have to grind rep, you don't need gold. Nothing makes you better except you're own skills.

  • TursuSuyu4442
    Castaway
    Insider

    Truly an amazing topic. You've read my mind. We bought this game with my buddies cause we think there is something you can achieve with your squad and buy some upgrades to your ship etc. For me it's still quite funny but there is no meaning of getting gold in the game except for cosmetics. And cosmetics didn't grant you something. There is no purpose to trying to collect golds in this game. What will I do with skins? It's just bunch of visiual satisfaction but nothing else. It needs a purpose to complete quests and gain some gold. Why am I playing this if i can do nothing with these golds? This game is so open to new dev updates. There should be a meaning of getting gold except for skins. Like upgrade your cannon's damage or little armor to your ship, maybe protection upgrade for ramming? These things are so easy to make for them. Don't get me wrong it's still funny game for me, very open to updates. But you can easily get bored every session. You are doing same thing everytime and you got nothing.

  • Notorious6726
    Sailor

    @Limend appreciate the post a proper answer with examples to backup your arguments thats how it should be.

    Now to your post. I can see the issue with spawncamping but can't there be easy solutions for this like safe outposts or storm surges for campers.
    Besides why would people spawncamp if there is nothing for them to get from my newly spawned ship it would be the same reason why no one spawncamps now.

    Grinding for better equipment won't change anything.

    Lets be honest who cares about cosmetics. What am I grinding for now though if I don't have anything to work towards except a gold weapon. I do see your point of why upgrading to better equipment would imbalance the game but let's not even stick to weapon upgrades lets say inventory upgrades for wood or cannonballs I literally have to jump 4 times into the sea to collect 20 wood from a barrel.
    There are so many unique and creative ways to make the game a little bit progressive and still maintain the aspects of balance and natural skill.

    and lets be honest how far can you develop skills in the game. I can get better at sailing and handling the ship or get used to curve shots of the cannons but thats about it. You are all bringing up the argument of "more experience = more skill" but how much experience is there to achieve anyone grinding the game for a week will already be at the maximum, the mechanics of the game aren't that complex connected that you can always learn something new. Googling one article to a beginners guide would've already taught me the main tricks to become a very good player.

    I am not here to hate on the game btw I had so much fun at the beginning but the more I play the more I realize how repetitive it gets without proper goals. The game itself is so well optimized no lag in fights or advantages in form of networklatency or servertick. If I die in a fight it is a 100% my fault never to blame the tech but still the game is too much of a sandbox and too less of a game. Like I said there would be so many creative ways to utilize gold without destroying the balance of the game. Or why not even create another mode that has an imbalanced adventure experience its just wasted potential

  • Limend
    Lord
    Insider

    @notorious6726 For camping issue. This game will never have any "safezones" (There are plenty of topics already about this) they also wont change the fact if you get camped in middle of an ocean. I think i heard from a friend that there were invisibility after spawn but not anymore? could someone correct this statement?

    The think with ANY king on advantage over others for paying or playing would go against the whole core mechanic of the game. Only advantages at seas could be ammo/ storage crates but you have to find them and they are RNG based so not unfair at all.

    More experience doesn't always mean more skilled but usually it does. That's why me and my crew aren't sunken by new players. There is more to the "skill" than just knowing stuff. It's same in any games. Like Overwatch for example, you might know same amount stuff as gold that Grand master knows but you're skill level isn't the same. It's how well you use them and about game sens. Do you all board same time and when? do you first try to get their mast before boarding exc. But true mechanics are not that hard but using them may be.

    I my self enjoy the game and i can't even tell why. I can't enjoy this alone but i usually play with friends so its fun. so i can't give any POV to statement "doesn't feel rewarding" But developing any new mechanics and specially new mode would take A LOT of time and money for something that doesn't need any fixes. Maybe they will create gold sink? make Pirate legend more rewarding and worth grinding or introduce new title that could be looked up upon like PL use to be. There isn't point to grind its all about fin with friends, that's all i can say.

  • ISAACMARTEEN13
    Marauder
    Insider

    Please don’t tell me you got bored after 3 days... I mean you’ve barely scratched the surface.

  • Notorious6726
    Sailor

    @ISAACMARTEEN13

    Please don’t tell me you got bored after 3 days... I mean you’ve barely scratched the surface.

    so far we've done...
    -normal missions from the npcs.
    -tall tales missions
    -explored wrecked ships
    -fought other ships
    -killed boss skeletons from missions and normally
    -experienced the kraken or squid w/e that is
    -dug up chests

    and btw after every mission ship back to an outpost to get the precious gold what else is there to do for us maybe we are missing something because I think we already did everything you can do in the game

  • Limend
    Lord
    Insider

    @notorious6726 said in

    and btw after every mission ship back to an outpost to get the precious gold what else is there to do for us maybe we are missing something because I think we already did everything you can do in the game

    You're mainly grinding for nothing, leaving the fun part of exploring, interactions with others out? I won't judge but that might be why you don't enjoy it anymore. It's not about the gold, it's about the Glory!!!"

  • mferr11
    Vanguard
    Insider

    I play this game for fun. Don't need vertical progression to keep coming back.

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    @notorious6726 said in This game could've been one of the best co-op games of all time, but...:

    @ISAACMARTEEN13

    Please don’t tell me you got bored after 3 days... I mean you’ve barely scratched the surface.

    so far we've done...
    -normal missions from the npcs.
    -tall tales missions
    -explored wrecked ships
    -fought other ships
    -killed boss skeletons from missions and normally
    -experienced the kraken or squid w/e that is
    -dug up chests

    and btw after every mission ship back to an outpost to get the precious gold what else is there to do for us maybe we are missing something because I think we already did everything you can do in the game

    Go after the commendations! 😉

  • ISAACMARTEEN13
    Marauder
    Insider

    @notorious6726 pirate legend, arena, flameheart events, ashen wind and messing around, plus all the cosmetics to unlock

  • JaegerDelta3465
    Marauder

    @notorious6726 said in This game could've been one of the best co-op games of all time, but...:

    @ISAACMARTEEN13

    Please don’t tell me you got bored after 3 days... I mean you’ve barely scratched the surface.

    so far we've done...
    -normal missions from the npcs.
    -tall tales missions
    -explored wrecked ships
    -fought other ships
    -killed boss skeletons from missions and normally
    -experienced the kraken or squid w/e that is
    -dug up chests

    and btw after every mission ship back to an outpost to get the precious gold what else is there to do for us maybe we are missing something because I think we already did everything you can do in the game

    You are mistaking catalysts for adventure as adventure itself. And you are still thinking gold is the currency you are after. The tools not rules nature of the game leads to a largely player driven experience. To put it bluntly, you are playing in a boring way and then complaining you are bored. If you arent the type of person that can make their own way in an open ended experience that is totally fine, it's not for everyone. But if you are approaching it like it's a co-op rpg it's like asking why there is no fishing in doom. It's just not that type of game.

  • Notorious6726
    Sailor

    @JaegerDelt

    please share your open world experience with me. I already listed ALL the things I did and those things are everything you can do in this "open world experience" you are basically telling me to keep doing the same things over and over again and have fun while doing em. I again want to say I dont try hard to hate on this game I am just furious on how much wasted potential there was here. Unfortunately players enjoying the game as its designed right now are a minority compared to if it actually had any progress/goal implementation.

    The tools not rules nature of the game leads to a largely player driven experience.

    I do not believe this since all tools have a one sided value there is no "creative" way of mixing certain mechanics its all for one use/purpose.

    pirate legend, arena, flameheart events, ashen wind and messing around, plus all the cosmetics to unlock

    Go after the commendations!

    Those things would be so much more satisfying and fun inducing but why even bother going after those events and achievements if theres nothing to get from them.

    But if you are approaching it like it's a co-op rpg it's like asking why there is no fishing in doom. It's just not that type of game.

    Imagine the fun the endless hours of fun you would have if it was that TYPE of game

  • Theeggoplant
    Lord
    Insider

    you know dude I have way too many hours in this game and I've been playing since launch and was anticipating this game when it was first teased w the xbox one lol. point is I've played this game a lot. I completely disagree with your comments about progression but, I know its hard to work something when all you get for it is a title and some cosmetics. personally I've always found my reason to play but I have to say that I too am wanting something more out of the game sometimes and honestly I feel like a lot of the community does. You often hear that the content in SoT is refurbished. I feel like there should be more of a goal or a reason to play for new players.

  • JaegerDelta3465
    Marauder

    I think you are just not the type of person to be internally motivated then, based on what you are saying. which is totally fine, but sea of thieves isnt the type of game to look for external motivation in. Not only would changing the game to provide that completely alienate their established audience (and in my opinion push it into a more crowded market), it would be so expensive to essentially redo the game it's basically a non-starter. No studio can afford to pay the development costs of a game twice

  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    If you get bored of SOT after 2 days there isn't a change in the world that would make you pleased on these seas

  • mferr11
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @notorious6726 said in This game could've been one of the best co-op games of all time, but...:

    Imagine the fun the endless hours of fun you would have if it was that TYPE of game

    Already have endless hours of fun with the current game.

  • Notorious6726
    Sailor

    @mferr11 sagte in This game could've been one of the best co-op games of all time, but...:

    @notorious6726 said in This game could've been one of the best co-op games of all time, but...:

    Imagine the fun the endless hours of fun you would have if it was that TYPE of game

    Already have endless hours of fun with the current game.

    consider yourself a minority

  • Shadow20642
    Marauder
    Insider

    @notorious6726 said in This game could've been one of the best co-op games of all time, but...:

    You guys unfortunately miss the point. Adding some kind of goal/progress system with thought can still be a balanced addition to the game. I already read the phrase „progress is an artificial way of making you better“. No its not its a motivation on trying to get better in the mechanics so that if you got better you can reward yourself in some way. You think if I grind to achieve some kind of progress I wont naturally progress in sailing/moving ship etc? If you have a decently good crew and get used to the controls what else is there for me to achieve? What am I doing with all my gold why do I have it? Why do I even bother to play the game for its missions if I won't be able to do anything with the rewards. It doesnt even have to be some boosts or perks maybe like a rank system the more you achieve the bigger prestige you have that others can see (Adventure) and try to hunt you down. I've already met many ships that wear the red flag on their ship with no loot only to fight others because they probably dont see the sense in doing other things than PvP. I get some of yours point in the uniqueness of the game and the endgame point but I'd rather work towards an endgame than no game. What is my motivation to keep playing the game if there is nothing to achieve or have a sense of accomplishment isn't that the point of games?

    You set your own endgame.
    The game provides the world and the players. It's up to you to decide your own goals. You make your own fun and own goals.

    The progression is fine.

    If you need motivation to keep playing then it's clear you don't find the core loop of the game fun. If that's the case that's absolutely fine. There are plenty more games to explore.

    This game isn't dying because we ain't going anywhere. Not until a rival "me too" game crops up and offers something more fun at least.

  • Notorious6726
    Sailor

    @DaringClarky

    It's up to you to decide your own goals. You make your own fun and own goals.

    This game isn't minecraft where you can explore, craft, experiment with new stuff, mix mechanics. You can't make your own goals if every tool you have only exists for one purpose you cant be creative if every other island looks like eachother. Theres like 6 things you can do in this game and thats about it. Tell me some examples what you set up as your own goals. It seems like you didn't get the point of the topic there can't be a creative way of playing this game or experiencing an unique fun adventure if the game gets repetitive in 2 days playtime

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