Eye of Reach is finally OBVIOUSLY too strong!

@betsill said in Eye of Reach is finally OBVIOUSLY too strong!:

@crafek No worries. Even i kinda got lost at some points while trying so many ways to get my ideas across to savage and trying to understand what he was actually saying lol.

I understood your ideas. Some of them were just dumb, So dumb it should have been self evident. Secondly you were skipping around and forgetting the specific argument I was making.

Even if we reduce hip fire accuracy it will not balance the EoR. It's not what makes it better than all the other weapons. As the EoR is my primary weapon I can tell you that the least useful aspect of it is hip firing, but it helps if someone gets too close. I wouldn't want to see that get nerfed too much making it completely useless in a clutch moment. But where I find the most success is aiming + firing. You aim exactly where you'd be hip firing so you can aim and fire in CQC immediately.

@betsill said in Eye of Reach is finally OBVIOUSLY too strong!:

It's not that it's not an issue it's that ALL the weapons are the issue and singling out the EoR just doesn't make sense. For the short term, the EoR feels really good to use now and even if it's a little too strong it's not a big deal. Everyone has the option to take it, and there are only 2 other weapons competing for the slot.

I think that needs to be made clear by everyone. When the blunderbuss was strong (And it was strong) and the EoR Weak, THAT... was bad. There was next to no reason to NOT bring a Blunderbuss.

Currently, things have shifted torwards EoR's favour, but not to the same extent. Its not as bad is what im trying to say.

I seem to remember a small grace period of when the blunderbuss got nerfed and the EoR yet to recieve its 80dmg buff. The blunderbuss was still used, but it was no longer too easy to insta gib with just a small f**t. The other selection was the pistol or cutlass. EoR was disgarded for basically being a pistol with a longer reload.

So I am not singling out EoR, I constantly keep emphasising that making one gun one way actually affects the rest of the guns, like you said. We can pick 2. But the same 2 or 1 always is not good. I dont think bringing back blunderbuss to be as strong again is going to help this, its going to be too many ways to do 80+dmg, thats overkill in all fronts, it would make the pistol look weak. The blunderbuss INSTANT KILLS for crying out loud, it has simply been adjusted to be more difficult to 1shot. Simply making the EoR be used for its role the same way blunderbuss is forced on its role is a good thing, no matter how much you dont believe it will be used on a boat... people pop in shots and would still use it. Again, there are more scenarios than just shooting between ships, and yet the EoR is still the best weapon for that scenario despite the horrendous sway.

People will adjust to scoping in at medium/close ranges to get that sweet 80 dmg from a pistol range. Some people will not bother, but it will force a Willing player to choose if that should be the case. Again, currently EoR is the new Blunderbuss even when the Blunderbuss can instant kill. People rather combine a melee ranged EoR with Cutlass than having a blunderbuss.

(I also think people are wholy underestimating the blunderbuss, honestly. Simply having the blunderbuss against Melee folk as a defencive weapon can lend you that instant kill)

@crafek

Again, there are more scenarios than just shooting between ships, and yet the EoR is still the best weapon for that scenario despite the horrendous sway.

There are, but those cases are so rare that you wouldn't pick the EoR for that reason preemptively. When it comes to ship to ship combat, it is better, but it's still horrible for it. The blunder is obviously 0% effective for ship to ship, if we say the pistol is something like 3%, and the EoR would be something like 8% effective(these numbers are obviously not accurate, just making a point). If everything sucks at a certain task to the point that it's pretty much not worth even bothering to do that task at all then it really doesn't matter if the EoR just "sucks less".

People will adjust to scoping in at medium/close ranges to get that sweet 80 dmg from a pistol range. Some people will not bother, but it will force a Willing player to choose if that should be the case.

I can't say that I disagree/am against that. It's just that this is Rare we are talking about. I just have a feeling they would just nerf the hipfire and be like "welp! we fixed it! good job us!" and forget about it. Or worse! they will do the even lazier thing of just nerfing the dmg.

Again, currently EoR is the new Blunderbuss even when the Blunderbuss can instant kill. People rather combine a melee ranged EoR with Cutlass than having a blunderbuss.

That's because the blunderbuss sucks. Like really bad. The only thing that keeps the blunderbuss useful in any way is the fact that it's the only weapon that has the potential to one-shot. There are enough times that you sneak up on people or they are coming up latters that this ability is valuable. In actual combat it becomes easily the worst weapon in the game. I know because I equip it almost 100% of the time in pvp(I fight with the pistol or EoR though). You will never get in range of a oneshot unless the enemy is totally incompetent at fighting(in which case you would win regardless of your weapon). If any other weapon in the game had the ability to one-shot the blunder might as well be removed from the game entirely because it would never be the best option for ANY encounter.

I also think people are wholy underestimating the blunderbuss, honestly.

I don't think so at all. I can't even remember the last time I fought someone with a blunder. If they do use it I know it's an easy win for me. It's threat range is actually less than the sword(while having none of the swords utility(which is broke AF and needs to be fixed)), so pistol or EoR wins pretty much every time by keeping a little distance.

Simply having the blunderbuss against Melee folk as a defencive weapon can lend you that instant kill

Only if they are bad. The blunder is 100% the worst weapon you can use against a sword. You have to get through their melee range to get the oneshot and if you don't get the oneshot you are guaranteed to lose because of the swords broken mechanics. If they just manage to hit you before you shoot, you can't kill them. The sword reduces accuracy and makes it essentially impossible to land a solid hit even at point blank range.

@betsill Thats where you are Wrong!

The blunderbuss can tactically destroy melee people. Not even against bad people, all it requiers is having them come at you for that quick switch into blunder. But, the reason why you do not see blunderbuss being used because, again, EoR replaces It! You might as well do that tactic with an EoR!!! What is the point in a high damaging close range weapon, when you have a high damaging Long range weapon that is just as easy or easier to use for short range?

(To add, Im rarely using the blunderbuss to lead in with. Its always a defensive purpose.)

Also, the Ship to Ship shooting, may not have to be within a moving ship. Could be the case that both ships are parked, or shooting at a rowboat. Within your own ship, the EoR still does a good job inside where players are funneled. What if EoR would be 90% effective on moving ships as they are chasing eachother? Well, its not effective yet still because the important bit is how the weapons themselves cannot do anything to the ship. No matter what you do, the ability to kill anything wont matter unless you make it matter by doing stuff that gets a ship sunk. But yet a galleon or brigantine troop of EoR users can execute the sloopers or briggers as they are chasing them before boarding. But that is still just the EoR simply being a preference, but that preference, once again, overrides the blunderbusses because people use the EoR like a blunder.

@crafek

The blunderbuss can tactically destroy melee people. Not even against bad people, all it requiers is having them come at you for that quick switch into blunder. But, the reason why you do not see blunderbuss being used because, again, EoR replaces It! You might as well do that tactic with an EoR!!! What is the point in a high damaging close range weapon, when you have a high damaging Long range weapon that is just as easy or easier to use for short range?

All I can say is that it's wrong. 95% of what I do in this game is PvP and my loadout is either Blunder and pistol most of the time, blunder and EoR occasionally or EoR and pistol very rarely. This game has ridiculously unreliable PvP and no stats to measure win-rates of certain weapon match-ups, so there is nothing really to argue about other than my word vs yours. In my experience as someone who does pretty much nothing but PvP(or mostly just look for PvP) the most common combos are sword+pistol, then sword+EoR, then sword+blunderbuss. Also, EoR has a knockback that's huge in CQC! That 100% needs to be removed.

Also, the Ship to Ship shooting, may not have to be within a moving ship. Could be the case that both ships are parked, or shooting at a rowboat.

This could be the case it's just way to rare of an occurrence to prep for. Since the EoR is generally good now, it's worth taking so that when these rare longer range engagement happen you can use it. Otherwise it would be like before. If you are on your boat you can swap to the EoR for a bit, but then you swap back before you do anything else.

@personalc0ffee 24 frames longer reload than a pistol.

I dont think people read the conversations...

@personalc0ffee said in Eye of Reach is finally OBVIOUSLY too strong!:

@crafek said in Eye of Reach is finally OBVIOUSLY too strong!:

@personalc0ffee 24 frames longer reload than a pistol.

I dont think people read the conversations...

EoR takes longest to reload.

and

Sorry, I don't really see any OBVIOUS OP in the EoR. It's awesome in the right situations and poor in the wrong one's. Always pick the right tool for the right job.

Some people probably perceive the EoR as Oped because that's a choice weapon for attacking another ship with (Pirate Killer). So because they tend to get killed by the EoR more often they perceive it as too "powerful".

Ok, im getting sick of this. EoR with all its advantages only has 24 frames longer reload. That is completely and totally different to what it once was, and completely and totally insignificant in comparison versus the strengths and weaknesses of other guns. It is Practically the same reload speed as the other guns.

The conversation is how EoR does what the pistol and blunderbuss does better, especially how completely and totally insignificant the "Weakness" to EoR is when comparing the guns.

EoR has no Drawback. Great damage, great aim, great hipfire, but only 24 frames longer reload.

The blunderbuss needs to be up close to do this damage.
The pistol only does 50 damage.

If people Pick EoR over the Pistol and Blunderbuss, it is not only the act of being killed by the weapon that makes people call it OP, but how players are being forced to choose it, how they are forced to percieve the other weapons as lesser due to the stats and numbers being in favour of EoR.

That is what makes the gun Too Strong! Why do I have to repeat this to people?! It is the DECISION between the guns that favour EoR. It, as a tool, can be used for Pistol situations, and blunderbuss situations.

I am not trying to change the field of things to my favour, I am presenting you the absolute differences to these guns and what they do as a selection. I suggested only to increase the Hipfire to the EoR so that it DOES have a weakness and forces a style of play similar to how Blunderbuss is forced into Close Combat. Because, once again, and it looks like I have to repeat this again and again. EoR can be used in all ranges and situations for great reward and next to no faults.

@personalc0ffee Tell me how much longer is the EoR compared to the other guns? Quit pretending it is that much longer.

Did you also know that the EoR hipfire is the same as the pistol?

Seriously, Tell me exactly the significant difference in the reload. Versus the obvious significant difference of 50dmg vs 80dmg.

You keep on saying it has "The longest reload" YES!!! I say that too, but that is not the weakest thing among these guns when the only difference is less than half a second!

You cant be serious about EoR's "weakness" to justify it not being used like one!

And if were going to compare guns, then the blunderbuss should be able to kill and win over the other two as it can 1HK. And so, these examples do not work as they are impractical, because we all know, getting a 1HK is not simple.

So how much difference does an EoR's Reload (Which is the longest by only 24 frames) make versus the inability to harm anything with the blunderbuss from range. Please answer that, if you think that the short but longest reload of EoR is just as drastic as Blunderbusses short range, then you are way out of your head.

@PersonalC0ffee

Here

Ok, now... Answer the question

So how much difference does an EoR's Reload (Which is the longest by only 24 frames) make versus the inability to harm anything with the blunderbuss from range. Please answer that, if you think that the short but longest reload of EoR is just as drastic as Blunderbusses short range, then you are way out of your head.

And once again, the suggestion is to make the Hipfire of EoR more wild and unreliable so that it is unlikely to be used like a blunderbuss, and force an EoR user to actually use range for the Aimed Shots instead, much like how the Blunderbuss is forced to get up close.

@personalc0ffee Wow. You think that prooves your point? You wanted evidence if its 24 frames right? Well, there you go! So, you are just willing to stay ignorant. I have stated in every way in this thread up to this point how this reload is only 24 frames longer, and you have not stated how bad this longer reload is versus the range limitation of the blunderbuss.

You keep on saying it has "The longest reload" YES!!! I say that too, but that is not the weakest thing among these guns when the only difference is less than half a second!

Go back, read the entire thread. Dont try to just be right, because you havent said anything to support how the EoR is weak. You absolutely did not state in any other way other than the 24 frame longer reload how the EoR is just as weak as the other guns are to their weakness.

This is why I hate talking about balance. Just complete ignorance to the reality. And you still do not want to answer the question.

@PersonalC0ffee There is an absolute clear bias here

Eye of Reach:

W- non accurate hipfire, longest load time of all guns, slowest fire rate

S- 2 shot damage, great with range, has knockback

Those two "Negatives" are the same!

Lets continue, how about this:

Video clearly shows that you would be able to fire two pistol rounds before the EoR was done reloading. That means it has the slowest reload time. It doesn't matter how many frames of animation difference it is between the two guns because you can fire 2 pistol shots per 1 reload of the EoR.

So you would justify even if it was 1 frame difference?! You are now trolling me.

The "List" is highly biased because you are Overvaluing one thing as strong/weak as another. EoR's "Longest reload time" is not long at all and does not add up to as weak of a weakness like Blunderbusses short range, or Pistols damage IN COMPARISON.

Here is an example of how stubborn this list is: Blunderbuss is clearly stronger than both guns because it can 1hk while the other two guns ca-

You know what, i am just repeating myself. Read everything in this thread, go do it.

and ANSWER THIS QUESTION:

So how much difference does an EoR's Reload (Which is the longest by only 24 frames) make versus the inability to harm anything with the blunderbuss from range. Please answer that, if you think that the short but longest reload of EoR is just as drastic as Blunderbusses short range, then you are way out of your head.

Because you seem to want to actively ignore it. And once again, This is why I hate talking about balance. Just complete ignorance to the reality.

(Post #100, this is actually sickening)

@PersonalC0ffee

Also yes, if it had 1 frame of animation longer than everything else it would TECHNICALLY be the longest reload but it would be very easily argued that's not near long enough.

Then why are you arguing against 24 frames? And I am just calling you ignorant because you arent listening consistently. I have said, all there is to say in the thread and you still havent answered the question. Completely bypassing the conversation, (Threatning me with forum rules?) and so at this point I should just ignore you.

But if you can open up to the argument that technicality is not good enough to justify such a balance, then why are you giving a technical overview of the guns as equal.

Again, it comes down to that question, because there is a clear difference in the weakness of 24 frame longer reload than the pistol, and absolute short range of the blunderbuss. I just want you to admit that so you can see how being technical about this is not helping and placing these two "cons" as equal is bad. This is not bias, it is simply realizing a difference. The 24 frame longer reload is not going to stop anyone, and you would agree because you just said that a 1 frame difference wouldnt be enough.

Hipfire EoR is the Meta. The EoR does what the Blunderbuss does, and more. All my suggestion is, to widen hipfire. It will get players who use the EoR to place themselves in a comfortable range, than a blunderbuss range. Forcing a distinction of roles between the guns. How is this disagreeable?

@crafek said in Eye of Reach is finally OBVIOUSLY too strong!:

@PersonalC0ffee

Also yes, if it had 1 frame of animation longer than everything else it would TECHNICALLY be the longest reload but it would be very easily argued that's not near long enough.

Then why are you arguing against 24 frames? And I am just calling you ignorant because you arent listening consistently. I have said, all there is to say in the thread and you still havent answered the question. Completely bypassing the conversation, (Threatning me with forum rules?) and so at this point I should just ignore you.

But if you can open up to the argument that technicality is not good enough to justify such a balance, then why are you giving a technical overview of the guns as equal.

Again, it comes down to that question, because there is a clear difference in the weakness of 24 frame longer reload than the pistol, and absolute short range of the blunderbuss. I just want you to admit that so you can see how being technical about this is not helping and placing these two "cons" as equal is bad. This is not bias, it is simply realizing a difference. The 24 frame longer reload is not going to stop anyone, and you would agree because you just said that a 1 frame difference wouldnt be enough.

Hipfire EoR is the Meta. The EoR does what the Blunderbuss does, and more. All my suggestion is, to widen hipfire. It will get players who use the EoR to place themselves in a comfortable range, than a blunderbuss range. Forcing a distinction of roles between the guns. How is this disagreeable?

To answer your question, the longer reload time is significant enough in combat as reloading a sniper mid battle is time consuming and can be the end of you due to the fact that they can reload the pistol and fire before you have (including a tiny bit of time to aim and shoot).

This requires you to be able to eat a banana, relaod and fire or break line of sight to compensate for the reload difference.

The main weapon you should be comparing the EoR with is the alternative that is used for that purpose, the Flintlock as that is the actual competitor for the EoR.

The people that I play with that enjoy the two gun strategy use a blunderbuss instead of a sword, usually in combination with a Flintlock and the occasional EoR. Now, I personally wouldn't give up the mobility of a sword for a gun, except in very specific scenarios.

To Add; I personally wouldn't mind if the focus of the EoR would shift more towards a Long Ranged weapon, if this would mean that when I make those incredible difficult shots from range the person would die. Make it do less damage at close range, 60% (aka requiring two swing follow up) but over distance it should reach 100% damage for the instance kill.

Now the blunderbus does not have a problem at close range in my opinion, for me it is more the speed at which the damage falls off (not the instant kill range - more the damage at the end of the cone is just negatable). Now, this could be tweaked or people can play around it. It is a more skill and situational based weapon to use. I personally still think it is a very powerful weapon when fighting on a sloop, especially vs multiple targets.

@personalc0ffee

It is still a longer reload time. You continue to fight this fact.

Nope, I did not. Read. the. thread.

EoR has the longest distance and the longest reload time. Kill in 2 shots
Blunderbuss has the shortest range and a medium reload time. Kills in 1 shot
Pistol has a medium range and the fastest reload. Kills in 2 shots

Lets be even MORE technical with this

EoR is used at longest distance to shortest distance, the longest reload time of 24 frames from pistol. Kill in 1.2 shots
Blunderbuss is used at shortest range and a medium reload time. Kills in 1 shot
Pistol is used at medium range to shortest range and the fastest reload. Kills in 2 shots

Hip firing is inaccurate unless you are point blank and by that point; you as a defender have failed your job. If you're getting hit by someone who is hip firing across the ship, you're in big trouble because that means that player is very skilled or they are aim-botting.

Not true at all, you do not have to be point blank to hit with a hip fire. This is very false.

Hip firing with any weapon is inaccurate at distance but not point blank, see above.

But not inaccurate enough to be unreliable (In the case of EoR).

Get someone together and fire the pistol at the exact same time as the EoR. I've done this, and you get 2 pistol shots fired to the EoR's 1 shot. Remember and take note that you are able to fire as soon as the hammer is cocked (this is a change from previous patches. Previously you had to wait until the ready animation was done.)

I dont care anymore of this, like I said. I know EoR reloads the longest. But, like I said (again). Its only 24 frames longer, which is less than Half a second, and is practically the same speed.

Unless that changes, the EoR is perfectly balanced over both the Pistol and the Blunderbuss.

The thing is, it has been changed. The reload has been much made faster from what it once was versus how much the other guns got to reload faster. But besides that, the reload is not what makes these guns have balance. It is their versatility. Again, the very short (But longest) reload of the EoR is its only 24 frame drawback.

By the actual stats, the Pistol is actually what's OP. It has the fastest reload times, thus fire rates. You can fire 2 shots very quickly, and it can be hip fired at range quite easily and more accurately than the EoR or Blunderbuss. It kills in two hits.

Incorrect, EoR and Pistol have same Hipfire. The pistol is versatile, but does not satisfy the results like the EoR or the blunderbuss. A banana can heal a pistoled enemy from being killed by the second shot even if that person had 80 health, while an EoR shot will kill.

Remember, I already said the best PvP combo besides double gunning is Cutlass and Pistol.

I know, but I dont believe you because you are the first person I hear to say that.

No, charging the target and hitting them directly in the chest point blank with the EoR hip fire, is the meta. As I had already said earlier, you're already in trouble if you've let a player do this to you because as a defender you have failed your job.

Im not sure what your talking about here. Seems out of place with tht rest of your post

Anecdotally, I have probably landed maybe 3 EoR hip fire shots from across the deck and I main EoR. Most of my shots are ADS because you can't hit with it, unless you're point blank.

Holy c**p, really? from across the deck hipfire? Why would you even try that, even with current hipfire I wouldnt try, yet you did. But once again, you dont have to be point blank to hit reliably either.

On a side note I have been watching you ninja edit your posts.

Woe is me, tell me exactly the ninja edits that would completely derail your arguments.

---

I see now that I just have to ignore you, you still actually havent answered my question and continue to stubbornly look at the LONG and LONGEST RELOAD, as a justifiable little weakness as blunderbusses inability to harm anything at range. You continue to look at the weapons in a vacuum (Which is impractical) and going back and forth with your own argument with being technical and then not as I have shown with the post prior.

Read the thread, Ive said everything already.

@cotu42 said in Eye of Reach is finally OBVIOUSLY too strong!:

To answer your question, the longer reload time is significant enough in combat as reloading a sniper mid battle is time consuming and can be the end of you due to the fact that they can reload the pistol and fire before you have (including a tiny bit of time to aim and shoot).

I know that, but the practicality of less than half a second is not enough to deter the choice between the two guns. I was, in this thread, for the most part comparing the Eye of Reach closer to pistol at all times. But the reload, despite faster for the pistol is still the same story. They after misfiring or anything, must hide or eat a banana to compensate. The comparion I would make is how all guns in SoT are "AWP"'s from counter strike, once fired. There is a big pause inbetween, the pistol is the fastest at this, yes, but it still has the same principals as the EoR, while the EoR is only 24 frames longer. Which in practicality is not that big of a difference, but how a blunderbuss can only do damage up close is drasticly different to the other two guns (again, its absurd then to find a gun similar to the pistol with more boons to only be 24 frames slower in reload. This was actually longer before the patch fixed the reload).

That is why I asked that question, i know that it was absurd. Because it paints the picture of the "cons" of the EoR. You just cant take 24 frames of longer reload as seriously of a con to the rest of itself, or in comparison to the other guns.

Pistol n EoR will always kill in 2 shots, but the damage difference (50 vs 80) should still apply. You cant place them in a convenient vacuum when there are other factors to take in, that is why the damage number matters, not just shot to kill. Environmental and situations, the EoR fits into most of these due to how its stats are almost the same as the pistol yet does more damage.

And thats essentially it, it steps on the pistols foot in many areas. And its only drawback is a slightly longer reload when all guns have an inconvenient reload.

@crafek Just to add to how different the EoR makes itself out to be versus the pistol is in a fight where both have 80 health. With this convinient vacuum, the EoR wins with just 1 shot. But simply the damage the EoR does is enough to make a pirate spend longer eating more bananas.

---

But I dont want you to think that the EoR's damage is a problem, I think it is fine. It is just how it is being utilized is strikingly similar to the pistol and blunderbuss. There is no real discouragement, and I argue that a 24 frame longer reload is just... small and pitiful.

Opposite to that, the blunderbuss has a massive discouragement you cant ignore.

@crafek said in Eye of Reach is finally OBVIOUSLY too strong!:

@cotu42 said in Eye of Reach is finally OBVIOUSLY too strong!:

To answer your question, the longer reload time is significant enough in combat as reloading a sniper mid battle is time consuming and can be the end of you due to the fact that they can reload the pistol and fire before you have (including a tiny bit of time to aim and shoot).

I know that, but the practicality of less than half a second is not enough to deter the choice between the two guns. I was, in this thread, for the most part comparing the Eye of Reach closer to pistol at all times. But the reload, despite faster for the pistol is still the same story. They after misfiring or anything, must hide or eat a banana to compensate. The comparion I would make is how all guns in SoT are "AWP"'s from counter strike, once fired. There is a big pause inbetween, the pistol is the fastest at this, yes, but it still has the same principals as the EoR, while the EoR is only 24 frames longer. Which in practicality is not that big of a difference, but how a blunderbuss can only do damage up close is drasticly different to the other two guns (again, its absurd then to find a gun similar to the pistol with more boons to only be 24 frames slower in reload. This was actually longer before the patch fixed the reload).

That is why I asked that question, i know that it was absurd. Because it paints the picture of the "cons" of the EoR. You just cant take 24 frames of longer reload as seriously of a con to the rest of itself, or in comparison to the other guns.

Pistol n EoR will always kill in 2 shots, but the damage difference (50 vs 80) should still apply. You cant place them in a convenient vacuum when there are other factors to take in, that is why the damage number matters, not just shot to kill. Environmental and situations, the EoR fits into most of these due to how its stats are almost the same as the pistol yet does more damage.

And thats essentially it, it steps on the pistols foot in many areas. And its only drawback is a slightly longer reload when all guns have an inconvenient reload.

24 Frames is a con, it has actual timing and decision making implications within combat and is the reason the flintlock is prefered by a fair amount of people as their overall gun. Especially, due to the alignment of shots at medium range is slightly easier to do with a flintlock, than a sniper due to the ADS types they have (opinion). Not to mention, you don't tend to broadcast your position with a glare (also a con of the EoR btw).

The flintlock and sniper do indeed have a lot of overlap when it comes to functionality. That is due to the simple fact that they are both 2 shot kills and most fights happen within ranges in which they both function.

Yes, the damage numbers matter, though in a fire fight: fire rate should be the determining factor if both players hit their shots when speaking flintlock vs eye of reach. If it was not the case, one decided to adapt by using positioning or healing and won by decision making/skill.

Since you bring up the numbers, lets get down to it.
The EoR combinations for lethal results in:

• 2 Shots
• 1 Shot + Sword swing
• 1 Shot + Flintlock shot
• 1 Shot + Blunderbus shot should be*

The Flintlock combinations for lethal results in:

• 2 Shots
• 1 Shot + Sword lunge
• 1 Shot + 3 swings
• 1 Shot + EoR shot
• 1 Shot + Blunderbus shot should be*

*Why the blunderbus shot should be, is because the blunderbus does require you to be in range.

The main difference is the 1 swing versus 3 or the requirement to do the lunge (which is a more risky move). It also feels far more threatening when being at 20% hp instead of 50% as one is then at the one hit mark regardless of the weapon/attack type. Usually causes a pirate to panic more, feel the pressure and will therefore more likely make a bad call.

The real long range engagements tend to be void, as landing the first shot tends to be difficult enough and duplicating that within the time frame before you lose LoS or the damage has been repaired (banana's) is pretty much impossible to accomplish.

The EoR used to do 65% damage and was considered useless, as the advantages of the reload time of the Flintlock and the only requiring one additional swing in battle meant that it was superior. Therefore the balance now is far better than it once was and unless they make it a possibility for the EoR to one shot at longer ranges to compensate for a nerf in close combat I believe the nerf would just result in a devestating blow to the EoR.

Though I am not against a slightly bigger cone on the EoR when hipfiring (though I doubt it would do much for the discussion, people that can hit their shots will still do it), I personally still tend to go for a 'quick' scope as for some reason I do occasionally miss unless standing up in ones face.

@personalc0ffee said in Eye of Reach is finally OBVIOUSLY too strong!:

@cotu42 Brilliantly broken down and I agree, on everything but nerfs to EoR. I think it is perfectly balanced.

It just doesn't seem it because people have not registered you can shoot as soon as the hammer is cocked for all guns.

They think it only applies to the EoR.

Edit: I never considered the glint from the EoR as a con but I guess it is. Though I also think someone might just think it is a spyglass.

Broadcasting your position is always a con. It just usually gets overlooked in these discussions.

@CotU42
Nicely put together and you make an argument. The balance here is good, damage wise, I have said this, it is simply its role when coming up close. As you have said, it can be done with ADSing. But it mostly is used while hipfiring.

Just a general tactic to fight up close and swing a weapon around for 80 damage is something that the blunderbuss would be desirable for, but we see the EoR replacing that instead. This is where I draw the line with my argument. The extra bit of reloading does not mitigate enough for this as a Con that does away with close ranged tactics with EoR. The flexibility and damage weigh more than its cons, resulting in the overlapping of the pistol, and satisfaction of the blunderbuss. When this damage should be incentivised for Ranged purposes.

For your long range engagement argument, well that is why I personally am fine with the 80 damage. It is enough to pick off anyone below 81 health, that is my main argument on how it devestates anything with a single shot. A full pirate, is an alive pirate. 20% hungry pirate is susceptible to an EoR shot. A pirate with 51 health will still survive 1 pistol shot. I do believe with the new Arena mode, there will be a ton more uses for the EoR within its advertised range.

You have added; if I understood you, that there is a sweet spot of range in which the EoR would not like to aim at, in which the pistol is better in. I recognize this as well, it does not happen often but it is there. That would be further made clear if there was an incentive that gets the player to aim down at such close ranges, and why the suggestion of a bigger hipfire cone would have the player come to this more often.

Basically seperating the functionality between the Blunderbuss and the EoR and have the Pistol be in the middle. If the player manages to Aim Down at close ranges and make a shot, that is fine. So long that the clarity of how a weapon 'should' be used is clear and that the preference is not based on just pure efficiency (Which is what im seeing).

So far, most people, despite arguing that the EoR is balanced agreed to a larger hipfire cone, and that is all I need to hear. It is not there to make the EoR "Weaker", but rather have a clarity in role. Like I said, there is a difference between the time blunderbuss was strong, and how EoR is strong today. It is not as bad, but it only requires just an extra bit of tuning that has the weapon be clearly a sniper, and not a pistol or a blunderbuss.

@thejellydonut78 The Eye of Reach's reload time was recently shortened so that it could be fired as soon as the animation and audio would imply. It is now almost the same as the pistol, so the only trade-off is the limited FOV if you want a crosshair. This can be countered with dirty tactics like an artificial crosshair being stuck to your monitor.

Also putting a crosshair or dot on your monitor will not guarantee a hit. Guns don't always hit dead center.

And its just stupid to do... U basicly fooling yourself in having great skills.

@personalc0ffee Ah, thanks for clearing that up, then. I'll certainly test this myself, as I was basing my statement off of this post from the latest patch notes thread:

@nayfe-pacewell said in Patch Notes Discussion - 1.3.2:

That aside, yer it's the same firerate as the flintlock now. me and my friend tested it by firing bullets as fast as we could from both guntypes at the same time... not only did we find each round setting off at the same timing sequence, but we also found out that the EoR has the same accuracy cone as the flintlock lock when firing from the hip, the bullet spread has been reduced when firing from the hip.. Only real difference out side it looks. Is that the EoR does heavier damage per round (2 shots to kill) flintlock is 4.

@crafek your are right because I got shot point blank with an Eor and I got one shoted

You're definitely right on the fact that hipshooting needs to be nerfed. I was in a battle against a galleon, brig, and a sloop today and people ranging from sailor to PL were all using sniper. I didn't hear a single pistol or blunderbuss shot for that entire hour long battle.

I think the scope nerf is such a great idea, to stop it from being used in close combat as easily. It wouldn't affect people who use it for long range either, because they usually wait for perfect moment anyway. Great ideas!

@i-c-h-a-p-i I did have full health mate

@closinghare208 been one shot my self. After verbally abusing my tv, I watched the replay. Basically, instantaneously shot me with the EOR and Pistol. Only saw one projectile. Then I see the pistol pop in to frame. Was very disappointed to say the least.